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Dan8267 says

There is no even slightly justifiable argument against the take a knee protests. One side is simply completely wrong just like it is often so in history. Examples of this include the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, slavery, segregation, marriage equality, and every genocide ever committed. Not every issue has two valid sides.

I never made an argument against the kneeling or what not. I simply don't care what they do and have zero problem with it. I will say, being concerned about which side of history I'm on is futile. In 200 years there's no doubt that slavery could exist again and we would be on the wrong side of history. Right, wrong and morals aren't concrete and technically don't exist except for us making them up.

Dan8267 says

Feel free to make any specific, clear argument why any of my ideas won't work or are unethical.

Dan8267 says

I'm not. I'm fining police for contributing to the crimes with the blue wall. Just about all cops protect criminal cops from prosecution and prevent victims and bystanders from fighting back against criminal cops. This makes them legally and morally accountable for the crimes. It's called conspiracy. It is very appropriate to not only fine them and to seize their assets to pay for victim compensation and future crime prevention, but also to imprison those conspirators for their part in the crime. It also finally provides an incentive for cops to not tolerate criminal behavior in their ranks, something that is sorely needed.

I'm sure a judge would just take this so seriously. "Everyone in this group most likely does this, so we need to punish them ALL." There's zero legal basis for this having happened in the past and nothing legally that would allow it to take place in the future. Say two cops shoot a suspect illegally in North Lawndale in Chicago. What you're saying is the cops in the same department, working in North Center are somehow liable for that because, "blue wall" or whatever? This is not only a bad idea, it's not legal. That and no sane person, with all the potential dangers already baked in, is going to become a cop moving forward. You'd literally have criminals running the streets in ALL the neighborhoods, not just the bad ones.

This idea won't work and is the one I'm pointing out. Who cares about ethics, it would be shot down by the court system in two seconds. You're an intelligent guy from what I can tell, and even you have to admit this far fetched. I don't have a source as I'm 100% sure there's never been a government agency where one person did something wrong, case went to court and the entire agency was found at fault and fined or prosecuted in some manner. This idea isn't real.

Dan8267 says

It's also an entirely different subject that merits its own thread. Feel free to open one. It's irrelevant to the take a knee movement for the same reason that one woman committing a crime means that your daughter's rapists should not be prosecuted. There's no connection between the two.

I may just take you up on this.

Just a side note to all this, if there was no crime then police wouldn't be needed. The rate of interaction goes to zero. So while police do commit crimes for sure, it wouldn't matter anymore, they wouldn't even be needed. So we can focus on reducing police violence, which again, I have zero problem with. But our fastest way to getting things better is to reduce crime. No crime = no police violence. It's a utopian view, but nothing is impossible, right?

Dan8267 says

Cops committing crimes destroys public trust and makes law enforcement far less effective. As such, the criminal cops are harming everyone, not just their direct victims.

Right - a few bad cops are responsible for the sky-high rate of black on black murder and crime? A few bad cops are responsible for the astronomically high out of wedlock birth rate in the black community?

Can we not call out the massive social dysfunction in these communities at the same time we criticize and prosecute bad cops?

By only focusing on the cops, we are giving the black community a pass on the bigger issues causing poverty and crime.

socal2 says

Right - a few bad cops are responsible for the sky-high rate of black on black murder and crime? A few bad cops are responsible for the astronomically high out of wedlock birth rate in the black community?

The blue wall of silence cannot be built by a few bad cops. Nearly every cop has to be complicit for the blue wall to exist. Your are empirically wrong.

socal2 says

Can we not call out the massive social dysfunction in these communities at the same time we criticize and prosecute bad cops?

We can, and we do. That does not at all mitigate the seriousness of the crimes committed by cops, the protection of those cops by other cops and by the courts, and the importance and nobility of the take a knee protests. Therefore objections to the protests are just manifestations of bigotry.

Furthermore, if black people committing crimes pisses you off so much, then so should criminal cops and the courts tolerance of such crimes because criminal cops magnify the violent crime in black neighborhoods because victims cannot go to the police. Victims cannot trust the police. That makes crime far more pervasive. These aren't mutually exclusive problems. They are complimentary problems.

Dan8267 says

We can, and we do.

Really? We do?

When was the last time there was a major march, protest or prominent African American leader speaking out about the out of control violence in the black community? Which major black celebrities or athletes are shaming black men who abandon their children?

Bill Cosby (before his rape accusations) did this a bit, but was pilloried by the African American and white liberal community for betraying his race.

socal2 says

Victims cannot trust the police.

People don't trust the police because people like you are smearing them all as a bunch of racist criminals.

People like you are doing massive harm to the inner-city and minority communities.

I already showed you that crime has gone up the last 2 years after years of decline. The whole BLM movement started 2 years ago, is this really a coincidence? If I was a cop, I would not be anxious to police black communities.

socal2 says

If I was a cop, I would not be anxious to police black communities.

I'd quit. Why do it? That's the reality at some point. You can only push people so far. When there's a shortage of cops and they have to raise the salaries then people will be all pissed with how much cops are making. Or there won't be enough cops and crime will spike. Police brutality where it exists sucks, no doubt. But it by no means is the cause of most peoples problems. It's called jobs. It's called family. It's called money. It's not cops. Can't keep blaming others and that's what this is (as I think you mentioned in a prior comment).