patrick.net

tr6 says

Personal income is not wages

indeed! everybody knows WASCUR is wages :)

blue is PI, red is WASCUR, green is WASCUR / PI (right axis)

Bellingham Bill says

One of my favorite Cute cuddly American bear charts it goes into the category



D. The extreme left wing makes everyone out to poor to hate on Capitalism

Logan Mohtashami says

Even with manufacturing going into a recession in the U.S. in this cycle

capacity is at recessionary levels still

not that that is necessarily a bad thing, idle capital is still capital, but the question is jobs.



no movement on the needle in manufacturing jobs since 2010.

I agree the construction print is a crime and should be double that to replace our shitty aging postwar housing stock

green is information jobs, software is still eating everything.

Bellingham Bill says

Even with manufacturing going into a recession in the U.S. in this cycle

Prime example .... what I tell the kids, is when these old guys run manufacturing charts ... show this

then show the Output charts






I wrote this article Manufacturing Under President Donald Trump

https://loganmohtashami.com/2016/12/09/manufacturing-under-president-donald-trump/

To show exactly why the American bears hooked on Manufacturing jobs were going to be blazed out wrong ... Dean Baker got me on this with his rants of that the Dollar needs to be 20% lower for output and jobs to come back

Not 1940's -1960's anymore old days ... Productivity gains came in this sector leading to higher output

Logan Mohtashami says

Which still needs to live off a weak yen

360, now that was a weak yen. 110 is still on the strong side, McDonald's wages are $13/hr there, vs $19 when the yen was at 80.

150 would be getting on the weak side again.

Bellingham Bill says

Which still needs to live off a weak yen

Logan Mohtashami says

weak

110 isn't weak. It's in the normal range. 80 was making Japanese labor utterly non-competitive with the US, let alone the cheap-labor countries.

Bellingham Bill says

Who do you consider extreme left?

Extreme Left = MMT ( Bernie Sanders Crew) God Bless Bernie for wanting to pay for everything as that makes him a No Go on MMT .. ..

Extreme Right = Gold Bugs Anti Central Bank

If you don't consider yourself any of this .... then you're not in that group

Bellingham Bill says

110 isn't weak. It's in the normal range. 80 was making Japanese labor utterly non-competitive with the US, let alone the cheap-labor countries.

I even spelled it out with the chart dude .. I am not talking about recent moves, they want the Yen weaker of course but it always doesn't work that way

This will be my last post on this thread and for 2017. So let wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years all at once

and know... the future .... it will not be nameless, it will not be faceless, it will not be heartless .... We are the United States of America, our people will succeed!

Cheers gents now you all can go back to your regular scream fest

#USA

Logan Mohtashami says

I even spelled it out with the chart dude

you're cherry-picking the yen graph

https://imgur.com/a/5Gtfh

Logan Mohtashami says

This will be my last post on this thread and for 2017

Come in here, diarrhea a bunch posts with graphs that you can't defend, and leave. That's Logan.

Logan Mohtashami says

However, you're running into a better demographic patch in a few years, this isn't like 2006, it's the exact opposite

That chart is moderately convincing of good times to come for home builders. Thanks for it, you've sure piqued my interest. How deeply have you looked into this?

I'm pretty laymen on the topic of housing demand, but I wonder how much this partial age segment (20-39) matters. I know people are waiting significantly longer and longer to marry and have children these last couple decades, and I think I heard that marriage+children is a big first-home purchase driver.

But also, what about the 40+ age segment? I'm more concerned about boomers that die or goto elder care, returning their home to the market, generating added supply that cancels the new demand from the 20-39 year olds.

I guess I'm looking for a more holistic view, and wondering if you've pursued that angle and have any info or charts to share. Well...I know you always have charts haha :p

See ya Logan. Thanks for taking a shit on these guys then leaving. Go out enjoy you life then come back next year. Don't worry, they'll still be here.

goat says

I'm more concerned about boomers that die or goto elder care, returning their home to the market, generating added supply that cancels the new demand from the 20-39 year olds.

Bingo. Not counting all the immigrants (and there are tens of millions) the boomers are 80M on the ground, same size as Gen Y (as all the boomers had 2.1 kids)

Boomers are age 53 to 71 this year. Gen Y is 17 to 35.

anonymous says

I'm not asking for anything close to numerical accuracy

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=fgpt
This is just a one-off chart comparing real GDP (red, 1960 = 100) to real corporate profits (blue, 1960 = 100).

This shows corporate profits could fall 50% to fall back to the long-term trendline. But the question is why & how they got their post dotcom expansion in the first place.



^ real (2017 dollars) corporate profits.

I mean, they tripled 2001-now. How did that happen? Real GDP is up $5T since 2000.



shows corporate profits have risen from 4% of GDP to 9%.

jazz_music says

Old age is the time when people reconcile and make peace with the world and their long journey through this world. Every culture there is attributes a long list of benefits to achieving old age. Not everybody gets to achieve old age, and if they do, its because they did something right.

I can't remember the last time you said something this good. You must have run out of the good Jamaican stuff.

Logan Mohtashami says

This will be my last post on this thread and for 2017.

You are such an asshole Logan. How can you leave me to handle all these crazy bears?

Logan Mohtashami says

Personally, I think you're terrible because you're all too old and cranky

I tell the youth, don't listen to Boomers, they're old and they have way too much baggage

They want to see America fall like Rome or become like Greece or what ever you old people call us....

Boomers are the most vain idiots ever. They literally think the world revolves around them, and thus because they are almost checking out of this world it's now apocalypse this and apocalypse that. They can't deal with the fact that they will leave this world, and this ball will just keep strumming along even better without them.

I suppose TV and Movies can partially be blamed for their condition.

Strategist says

OMG. Someone give me a gun. I need to shoot myself. I can't stand the pain.

Is that supposed to be ironic ? That is considering the numbers of middle aged people committing suicide or becoming addicted to opioid pain killers ?

>>What Happened To The Great American Crash?!?!?!?!
>>By Logan Mohtashami
>>A. Lack Discipline

Logan cannot formulate a complete thought, let alone a complete sentence. Logan's ability to formulate a coherent sentence is like that of a woman of ethnicity on a bad daytime TV dating show. Has everyone seen the following conversation a few times already?

TV host: What kind of man are you looking for?
WOE: Treat me like a lady!

jazz_music says

Logan Mohtashami says

What Happened To The Great American Crash?!?!?!?!

Ans: It was postponed by bail outs, Quantitative Easing and changes such as suspension of Mark To Market in Generally Accepted Accounting Principles. (GAAP)

And why would they not want to postpone it again and again?

Of course there is always the "they don't ring a bell at the top" theory:

anonymous says

For guys like HEYYOU and DEEPCGI to be proven correct the Dow needs to drop to below 2000 points, and stay that way for years.

In other words their version of doom involves riots & tanks in the street.

Dear Doomsday Wishers,
There is a reason why Warren Buffett is filthy rich. No one has ever beaten his predictions.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/20/investing/warren-buffett-dow-1-million-100-years/index.html Warren Buffett: Dow will hit 1 million in 100 years
Warren Buffett isn't nervous about a stock market bubble. The legendary investor thinks anyone betting against America is "out of their mind."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-09-29/s-p-says-china-s-debt-will-grow-77-by-2021-bold-action-needed

This was an interesting read. Logan, I really don’t think your demonstration of fundamentals via charts give China enough credit here.

What if the US saw it’s debt increase by 77 percent by 2021? None of you would even factor it in to your market fundamentals. But why stop at 77 percent? These numbers are so min-bogglingly high that we should just make it an even 80 percent, and set aside enough food to feed all the poor on earth for 100 years.

The debt of nations just doesn’t exist at all for you perpetual bulls does it? Well, to simplify it a tiny bit, let’s just say that about 35 percent of the US national debt is nothing more than a promise to future retired people. Except of course the nation’s productivity and NOT just the face value of its existing real estate has to increase along with the debt and the population and the increase in life expectancy.

It doesn’t have to crash, it just has to go nowhere slowly for a while, and you’re screwed.

Strategist says

Buffett thinks long term. He knows that bad times will come, and bad times will go, but it's the bad times that are the best buying opportunities, because the American economy only goes up in the long run.

It's a fractal evolution: there are depressions every now and then that takes 20 yrs to cure, and there are dark ages on a regular basis too that take 200-1000 yrs to cure.
"only goes up in the long run" depend on where you sit.

deepcgi says

The debt of nations just doesn’t exist at all for you perpetual bulls does it?

The problem with Logan is he focuses on all the short term variables showing things are going well, while conveniently leaving out the several variables that are unsustainable and showing that we're screwed, in the mid to long term.

In the long term, everybody will die once the decaying process starts after we peak at 30 years old. But this does NOT prevent us from enjoying a little victory feeling here and there during the decaying process.
A nation starts corruption/decaying process the moment the money become unsound and manipulatanle.

DEEPCGI said: "It doesn't have to crash, it just has to go nowhere slowly for a while, and you're screwed."

I've asked you this before and you ran away - if one buys at 3k sees it rise to 22 and Drifts down to 19k over 20 years - how exactly are they "screwed"?

Better yet who is more screwed the guy above or the guy who sidelined himself at 6k expecting it to crash to 3k? In 20 years when it's time to hang it up - would you rather do so from the perch of 19k or from your perch of 6k?

Let's see if you can answer truthfully versus run away.

If you don't understand root cause, and you never have, you'll continue scratching your head at people who are afraid of collapse.

Numbers you should try looking into:
Longest, largest period of inflation of a fiat currency backed by nothing in human history
Dollar de-valued by 98% since the 20's

But can someone who makes a living on leverage think in terms of real purchasing power outside of credit? Based on you I'd say no.

Dear Bears,
The Bulls are in charge. Another day, another high. When will you learn. Sigh!

NuttBoxer says

Dollar de-valued by 98% since the 20's

You should look at value of an hour of labor. If the value of labor is constant, who cares if it takes $1 or $1 bazillion?

anonymous says

So do you want 5-10 percent yearly average for next 10 years or do you want 30-50 percent. It a gamble. And it is risky. But it is not necessarily wrong strategy if you are disciplined and wait for your turn.

Most people lose out by trying to time the market. Everyone thinks they can beat the market because they have no lose system or formula, and then they lose. Most fund managers with all their fancy degrees and skills, can't even beat the S@P 500.

When God speaks, people listens.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/03/after-winning-bet-against-hedge-funds-warren-buffett-says-hed-wager-again-on-index-funds.html After winning bet against hedge funds, Warren Buffett says he'd wager again on index funds

People don't understand inflation. The problem is not inflation.
The problem is that the government created a mechanism whereby tons of money CAN and MUST be printed, but at the same time wages are crushed, so corporate profits and assets go through the roof. All for the benefit of the rich. It is a (not so) subtle mechanism, hidden in plain sight.
All this of course with a bit of added instability when inflated assets realign with reality.
Only chumps mistake this for a long term trend.

Heraclitusstudent says

The problem is that the government created a mechanism whereby tons of money CAN and MUST be printed, but at the same time wages are crushed, so corporate profits and assets go through the roof. All for the benefit of the rich. It is a (not so) subtle mechanism, hidden in plain sight.

Why do you think wages are crushed?

Strategist says

Why do you think wages are crushed?

Primarily automation, but outsourcing as well

joeyjojojunior says

Strategist says

Why do you think wages are crushed?

Primarily automation, but outsourcing as well

I think wages are starting to pick up. Minimum wages for low skilled workers is increasing. The demand for technology jobs is out of sight. Unemployment is low. Corporate profits are up. Economy is improving. It all spells higher wages.
My 21 year old son graduated from college this year, and had a job waiting for him. 3 months on the job and he's making $7,000 per month. That's a lot of money for a 21 year old with no real experience. Southern California economy could be doing better than I thought.

Strategist says

Most people lose out by trying to time the market. Everyone thinks they can beat the market because they have no lose system or formula, and then they lose. Most fund managers with all their fancy degrees and skills, can't even beat the S@P 500.

I absolutely agree with that statement! True. True! True!!!

But, If you were fully invested for past 8 years, and maybe you will stay another year and rake another 10 or more percent and than exit and wait patiently for another opportunity (recession)?

I think that might be a smarter thing to do than stay invested considering historic timelines of bull markets. The odds are on your side.

Downturns come suddenly without warning and they happen quite fast. As long as you have strategy in place you might benefit from getting out year ahead of the downturn hugely.

You asked, so I'll tell you. I am odd. There is the truth of it. Over the past 30 years, over and over, I managed to build unique things that people in certain industries offered me huge money for, and four times I have walked away from enormous green, on principle. A number of people have told me I'm afraid of success, but I accomplished what I set out to do in every case, so I consider those good accomplishments in any light, but slimy greed beasts always seem always to cling to powerful new opportunities.

When I was a kid, I got a view of how greed, arrogance, and even religious pride could destroy good things and good people. Just because everybody is doing it, doesn’t make it alright. I don't care if God agrees with the principle or not. It has always been plain for me to see that we are pretending we don't see the disaster we are kicking down the road.

Have a kid in college? They are already seeing it and feeling all around them. Bachelor's degrees are worthless, student loans are enormous, downpayments out of reach. The only hope they have is your charity or early demise.

The bad part is, we can't wish away all the red. The national debt is their pensions, social security, health care, and untold future entitlements yet to be promised in exchange for votes.

Now though, the global debt beast is like Jupiter on the horizon of Io. It's so huge it fills our entire field of vision. We should have let the economy crash completely of its own weight, and let the true healthy survivors benefit, but instead we throw 800 billion dollar TARPS over the gaping hole to save privileged asset classes, and pretend we are actually going to pay that money back with interest in the future.

At this stage, it can't be fixed by crypto-currencies and derivatives, I promise.