patrick.net

We're using salt. Meh.

My vote if for the salt. Plenty of slugs have crept in here over the years!

I have been disappointed in low quality conversations from ad hominem attacks to straw-man arguments. Anything that starts out with a rant against libtards or repulsicans is not discussing truth or in an intelligent fashion. It is merely the writers fevered imagination of what people different from the writer are like and believe.Attributing beliefs to someone else is simply a desperate attempt for therapy and intellectual masturbation.

georgeliberte says

I have been disappointed in low quality conversations from ad hominem attacks to straw-man arguments.

I think it's mainly due to the primary content/thread creators here. I think a lot of the topics posted are direct attempts to troll other users from past discussions on certain topics. Those threads then immediately devolve into garbage.

There are two climate change threads right now on the home page. One has 300+ comments of I don't even know what. It makes me want to throw my computer out.

Unfortunately I think politics is topic number 1, 2 & 3 in a lot of peoples minds. I would like a little more diversity in the topics if you ask me. Of course I could contribute to that effort and try when I can. Everything here as become way too political if you ask me. It's like people forget that we're all on the same ship (the good ole USA) and that somehow a fellow citizen is an enemy to you. It's rather strange. Pretty sure 98% of the people here wouldn't behave in public like they do with their patnet personality. I guess for some it's a way, maybe in a therapeutic way, to release their inner demons.

The psychology is interesting on both sides. Anyone who uses "libtard" probably feels resentment and fear of the overwhelming power and intolerance of the PC crowd. I don't use the term, but feel like that myself about, say, the Damore case because I see Damore as someone very much like me who is simply not allowed to speak objective facts. There are real penalties for publicly suggesting that the PC crowd is wrong, like getting fired.

The anti-Trump crowd denies that they already have most of the power, and no doubt also fears that they will soon be penalized in real life for saying that they think, even though everything is currently organized they way they want it and no other way is allowed consideration, even under Trump. And I'm sure they feel Trump is a real threat to the stability of the country.

WookieMan says

I guess for some it's a way, maybe in a therapeutic way, to release their inner demons.

Yes, exactly. Tension builds up because people feel they can't speak freely in real life, so an anonymous forum is where that tension comes out.

People have been using PatNet as a way to vent for years. This isn't anything new. But when Trump got elected, for some reason (you can guess why), it hit a new level of fervor. It's gotten toxic and I've seen reasonable posters from the past just completely lose their shit and get super toxic. Pretty sad.

Tatupu, enough of the personal attacks. You can try again without the dissing.

HappyGilmore says

No dissing--just stating the facts.

Sure, just keep those "facts" in your head, and not spew them across the forum. Zero tolerance tatupu or you're going to get a lot of comments deleted.

I just marked several of Goran's comments directed at me as uncivil. Never used the uncivil button before (and never used the dislike button unit 2 days ago). Just stating the facts...

FP says

I just marked several of Goran's comments directed at me as uncivil. Never used the uncivil button before (and never used the dislike button unit 2 days ago). Just stating the facts...

FP, I have access to the moderation queue. You are abusing the uncivil button and will lose access to it if you keep this up. I've restored the comments so anyone can see that I was not levying personal attacks.

It's a bit sad because I think some interesting friendships are being passed on and it feels like a continuation of divide and conquer. A country should be united with the nuclear family unit at its core but it seems everything is being geared towards dividing people. I have a good friend who got fired and lost UE benefits for nothing, and I know many who could use a laugh over a beer or two with some new found friends. Today most families and many jobs have gone to shit over politics and other what used to be trivial stuff and the grass always seems greener at the other side, but it really isn't. I think Trump's presidency comes from a big yearning of at least 50% of the nation for being united again, being able to say stupid shit without having to fear consequences, and simply be a carefree nationalist around others, focused on their family rather than being a corporate whore first. And that is what Trump epitomizes. He does his thing no matter how stupid it may seem and waltzes through and then moves on while maintaining the frame of a seemingly successful, happy winner. Sure he writes his sometimes angry, but mostly humorous shivs, but then he immediately moves on as in the end it's just his job, just politics.

Goran_K says

People have been using PatNet as a way to vent for years. This isn't anything new. But when Trump got elected, for some reason (you can guess why), it hit a new level of fervor. It's gotten toxic and I've seen reasonable posters from the past just completely lose their shit and get super toxic. Pretty sad.

Doesn't that prove the fact that liberalism is truly a mental disease.

rando says

The anti-Trump crowd denies that they already have most of the power, and no doubt also fears that they will soon be penalized in real life for saying that they think, even though everything is currently organized they way they want it and no other way is allowed consideration, even under Trump. And I'm sure they feel Trump is a real threat to the stability of the country

My counterargument is that right wing has plenty of presence in the media - from Fox News to complete and utter domination of AM radio. For gods sakes, here in Bay Area, the only true leftist station is KPFA and their transmitter so weak that signal don't come across normally anywhere east of castro valley....lol....ironically the only way to get any "leftist" news is in prime time segment on RT America.

In terms of regular life, I know someone who left SFBA for financial reasons and settled in ahem...."biblebelt" where they have easier time making ends meet. Trust me, things are not open minded there at all....you will be treated courteously as long as you toe the line....if you happen to "rebel", you will be relegated to second class citizenship very quickly.

rando says

Damore as someone very much like me who is simply not allowed to speak objective facts.

Here's an interesting video from Stephen Pinker, about how PC helps cause the rise of extremists by not allowing the discussion of various subjects.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=kTiRnbNT5uE
Uncomfortable Facts are vehemently denied by Basic Bitches, a portion of those who have stumbled upon them take them to extremes because there is no moderating factors explained in national discourse.

Pretty sad

That's funny--I find Trump to be just the opposite. He seems much more divisive than any President in recent memory.

anon_d5928 says

Doesn't that prove the fact that liberalism is truly a mental disease.

I think leftism, and far rightism are both toxic and harmful.

The biggest tragedy of this recent divide/conquer route is that moderate voices are often quashed or ignored in favor of the loudest idiots from the far left or right.

I consider myself a moderate, and I'm also a nationalist. But I was not a big fan of Steve Bannon. For some reason this confuses people.

HappyGilmore says

This isn't #politics. Does Goran now have free reign over the whole site?

I have access to the moderation queue which includes "anon comments". I just approved a dozen anti-trump , anti-right, anti-conservative, comments.

I can also undo "uncivil" abuse.

Don't worry, you're in good hands Tatupu, as long as you follow the rules.

Goran_K says

I think leftism, and far rightism are both toxic and harmful.

Agreed. It's obvious though that before the Trump presidency leftism had a much firmer grip on the nation than far-rightism, and it still has quite some pull. People often then counter with economic policies which are not a good example anymore since the modern, globalist left concentrates all its extremism on identity politics, while economically they appear more centrist since the people who pull the strings of identity politics benefit from globalism and divide and conquer. It's in fact a very toxic mix that the left has morphed into and people have started to wake up.

mell says

Agreed. It's obvious though that before the Trump presidency leftism had a much firmer grip on the nation than far-rightism, and it still has quite some pull. People often then counter with economic policies which are not a good example anymore since the modern, globalist left concentrates all its extremism on identity politics, while economically they appear more centrist since the people who pull the strings of identity politics benefit from globalism and divide and conquer. It's in fact a very toxic mix that the left has morphed into and people have started to wake up.

Oh I agree. Far rightism has declined so far that places like StormFront are having a hard time attracting members. They don't control the media, they don't control education, they don't control ... anything.

The far left however has the tacit cooperation of the "moderate left" in the media, education, and hollywood. That's why I believe leftism is the primary threat to the country at this time. That could change in the future but for now the left has all the power and influence, and Trump was a stab at that powerful entity. That's why the reaction to him was so vile and widespread throughout the left. Trump is the first guy to stand up their power structure and threaten it.

Funny thing is, and I didn't think this would happen, Trump is winning way more than he is losing. Guy might be a genius. :)

HappyGilmore says

That's funny--I find Trump to be just the opposite. He seems much more divisive than any President in recent memory.

How so? In Charlottesville he correctly made the distinction between those who protest the removal of the statues and the white supremacists. He wants to keep as many people united as possible except for those that truly want to divide. As a counterexample I can only shudder when I think of Obama's handling of the George Zimmerman case where the tapes where DELIBERATELY DOCTORED (cut and paste) to make look Zimmerman - who had previously fought for a homeless black man to get shelter - like a racist. And Obama went through with that narrative. It can't be anymore divisive to start a race war over a case that clearly wasn't racist.

Obama was the most racist president since LBJ.

Goran_K says

Oh I agree. Far rightism has declined so far that places like StormFront are having a hard time attracting members. They don't control the media, they don't control education, they don't control ... anything.

Right, places like StormFront and even those who aren't obvious white supremacists like SF literally have no platform anymore, they would need to go back to public appearances with papers, but then they risk getting slaughtered by the Antifa. Whereas bloggers and professors are free to say kill whitey and put all sorts of affirmative talk and action into place. clearly discriminating by race and/or gender.

Goran_K says

The far left however has the tacit cooperation of the "moderate left" in the media, education, and hollywood. That's why I believe leftism is the primary threat to the country at this time. That could change in the future but for now the left has all the power and influence, and Trump was a stab at that powerful entity. That's why the reaction to him was so vile and widespread throughout the left. Trump is the first guy to stand up their power structure and threaten it.

Agreed.

Goran_K says

Funny thing is, and I didn't think this would happen, Trump is winning way more than he is losing. Guy might be a genius. :)

Got laughed at when I suggested DT may be candidate, let alone win. Was very close to place 300:1 bet, unfortunately of course I also had doubts and thought no way so I lost out on 100K or so, but the following MAGA stock market redeemed the lost opportunity and then some ;)

Goran_K says

FP, I have access to the moderation queue. You are abusing the uncivil button and will lose access to it if you keep this up. I've restored the comments so anyone can see that I was not levying personal attacks.

@Patrick,

The comments were personal attacks against me and according the new rules must be deleted.
I will check now if the comments have been restored. If they have, then I will not comment on this site any more.

mell says

How so? In Charlottesville he correctly made the distinction between those who protest the removal of the statues and the white supremacists. He wants to keep as many people united as possible except for those that truly want to divide. As a counterexample I can only shudder when I think of Obama's handling of the George Zimmerman case where the tapes where DELIBERATELY DOCTORED (cut and paste) to make look Zimmerman - who had previously fought for a homeless black man to get shelter - like a racist. And Obama went through with that narrative. It can't be anymore divisive to start a race war over a case that clearly wasn't racist.

I think this is the problem with Trumpism in general in that it encourages distrust and people to have their own "facts". When nobody can agree on truth and facts, it leads to very poor decision making. How can people come together when a large portion of the population disagrees with truth and facts?

You had the Press Secretary blatantly lying about the size of the inauguration crowd, then Kellyanne stating that they have "their own facts" as if that's OK. That pretty much set the tone.

mell says

Got laughed at when I suggested DT may be candidate, let alone win. Was very close to place 300:1 bet, unfortunately of course I also had doubts and thought no way so I lost out on 100K or so, but the following MAGA stock market redeemed the lost opportunity and then some ;)

You're not alone. I had a chance to place very lucrative bets on whether Trump would win and passed them up without thinking twice. Imagine a $10,000 at even 100 to 1. Now, seems like such a small wager, but in October 2016, quite risky.

HappyGilmore says

mell says

How so? In Charlottesville he correctly made the distinction between those who protest the removal of the statues and the white supremacists. He wants to keep as many people united as possible except for those that truly want to divide. As a counterexample I can only shudder when I think of Obama's handling of the George Zimmerman case where the tapes where DELIBERATELY DOCTORED (cut and paste) to make look Zimmerman - who had previously fought for a homeless black man to get shelter - like a racist. And Obama went through with that narrative. It can't be anymore divisive to start a race war over a case that clearly wasn't racist.

I think this is the problem with Trumpism in general in that it encourages distrust and people to have their own "facts". When nobody can agree on truth and facts, it leads to very poor decision making. How can people come together when a large portion of th...

But how can you argue the doctoring of the tape?? This is a fact, not some right-wing fantasy, He said the guy "may be up to no good" at one time and they cut out everything in between and put it right next to "he's black". GZ may have been an overzealous one-man neighborhood patrol, heck call him a guy with issues, whatever, but he clearly wasn't a racist. NOTHING whatsoever indicated that the altercation had a racial motive.

HappyGilmore says

You had the Press Secretary blatantly lying about the size of the inauguration crowd, then Kellyanne stating that they have "their own facts" as if that's OK. That pretty much set the tone.

Fine, but that's a nothingburger compared to fanning the fire of racial divides and possible violence.

I just want to say that everything seems fine to me, in fact almost every thread was interesting today with good points, instead of a lot of mud slinging and whinging.

I'm not kissin' ass, I'm telling it like it is.

Goran_K says

mell says

Got laughed at when I suggested DT may be candidate, let alone win. Was very close to place 300:1 bet, unfortunately of course I also had doubts and thought no way so I lost out on 100K or so, but the following MAGA stock market redeemed the lost opportunity and then some ;)

You're not alone. I had a chance to place very lucrative bets on whether Trump would win and passed them up without thinking twice. Imagine a $10,000 at even 100 to 1. Now, seems like such a small wager, but in October 2016, quite risky.

Where can you wager that with 10k limits?

HappyGilmore says

mell says

Fine, but that's a nothingburger compared to fanning the fire of racial divides and possible violence.

I disagree---purposeful disregard for the truth is FAR, FAR worse, IMO.

Absolutely. If we’re not be honest and genuine, nothing matters

DoofusRicky says

Brother Goran I understand your reasons and indubitably they are yours to make however going back all of my years I have never seen a member's goodbye thread erased from a website.

Those who had the pleasure to actually see it before it was yanked would agree with me that there wasn't anything the least bit abusive in his goodbye. People have commented that he was a long time user and although I had never talked with him, I'm sure at least a few people here appreciated him sharing his investment insights.

I admit that I am probably quite naive about all the circumstances but how come he was not even allowed to say goodbye?

I wasn't the one who nuked that thread. I wouldn't nuke a "good bye" thread.

Goran_K says

I wasn't the one who nuked that thread. I wouldn't nuke a "good bye" thread.

He's right. I did it.

It's in the "about" post now: "Mic-drop" comments and posts are also instantly nuked the moment I see them. If you want to leave, leave. Public announcements of leaving are intended to be inflammatory and therefore are banned.

If you want stay and not talk about the other users then you are very welcome and I'm happy to read whatever you have to say.

Goran_K says

Not very many people get banned on here

Aside from actual robotic spam-bots, only one user was ever banned. And he came back and is still here, though I find I have to frequently delete his comments because they are about the other users.

I changed the "uncivil" link to "personal" to better reflect what it means.

It means that the comment was about the person instead of purely about the point they are making.

Patrick says

Goran_K says

Not very many people get banned on here

Aside from actual robotic spam-bots, only one user was ever banned. And he came back and is still here, though I find I have to frequently delete his comments because they are about the other users.

That sucks that he would disrespect The site like that

One would think that the inly resolution would be such an egregious offender, permanently. Put mods on constant watch for him

Patrick says

I changed the "uncivil" link to "personal" to better reflect what it means.

It means that the comment was about the person instead of purely about the point they are making

I want to say thank you. I know you put a lot of time and effort to provide a bunch of us deploables on both side of the aisle a free website .
Some people expect a Ferrari for free!!!!!

Maybe you should just allow banner ads or side ads-don't know how much they net?

That’s the spirit

APOCALYPSEFUCK_is_ADORABLE says

Right on, Poobah Pat!

Niceness Counts!

Remember, you fucking cunts, we're a family website!

Perma ban trouble-makers. Why waste precious time moderating their posts daily?

lostand confused says

Maybe you should just allow banner ads or side ads-don't know how much they net?

Thank you. Google ads pay shit, but maybe I'll find some other kind of ads.

anon_b9fbb says

Perma ban trouble-makers. Why waste precious time moderating their posts daily?

I don't need to ban them. If they find they can't make trouble, they won't. It does take time, so I have some moderators I trust.