patrick.net

Hey, it's the Economancer who predicted the non-existent Stock Market Crash.

In any case, the Euros put 63-75% tariffs on Chinese Steel Products. They also have a 28.5% new tariff on steel from Russia, Ukraine, Brazil and Iran.

That means these guys have only one big market to dump their massive surplus of steel.

So why not tariff it? Everybody else is doing it, why should we be the bagholder? Plus, at the very least the Government will be making 25% on each and every piece of imported steel.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Hey, it's the Economancer

Yeah, talking facts.

Trumpcucks: " we don;t need no stinkin facts ! ("besides it's librul economist from MIT, who has been wrong at least once in the past. So his facts can't compare to our lies.")

TwoScoopsPlissken says

So why not tariff it?

I'm not as smart as you think you are. So I just listen to all the experts. This one isn't close. And I'll admit it, learned something in Krugman's little lesson. Care to point out it's flaws or factual errors ?

Of course you don't. Somehow I doubt you would ever read it.

marcus says

Trumpcucks: " we don;t need no stinkin facts ! ("besides it's librul economist from MIT, who has been wrong at least once in the past. So his facts can't compare to our lies.")

So you admit his call about the Stock Market in November 2016 was entirely wrong, then. Not only did it not crash, it rose to the stratosphere.

Or, when Krugman said in 1998 that the Internet wasn't going to keep growing so fast and that the impact would be no greater than the fax machine and that his then (1998) prophecy would be proven correct by 2005.
https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/revolutions/miscellany/paul-krugmans-poor-prediction

And now three of the most dominant companies in the US (indeed, in the world) involve the internet to a huge degree: Apple, Google, and Microsoft.

Did Krugman address the problem of Europe's new high tariffs on the world's steel in that article, and how he thinks we'll not be the sole victim of dumping?

Or was he pretending that the US exists in a vacuum?

If Trump is wrong to "Start a Trade War", why is the EU taxing Chinese Steel up to 75% and the many others at 28.5%? That's a tariff 3x to 3 pts higher than the one Trump put in place. But of course, Krugman just loves the EU and everything they do. He's only a diehard neoliberal when it comes to USA Policies, no matter what we must have free trade, even if nobody else does.

And while Krugman griped about the EPA, he neglected to mention that Brazil, Ukraine, China, Iran, Russia, etc. aren't exactly known for their Environmental Laws, either. As we saw in RIO, my oh me oh, and all those other countries. A Trump EPA does a 1000% better job than the EPA equivalents in all those countries.

Oh, and as for special interests, the Steelworkers represent almost a million members. And, Krugman's job is not at risk - from steel tariffs. But from the internet.

Lol at krugman (historically wrong about pretty much everything) lecturing about history.

The left needs new demi-gods. This dude is just a joke

marcus says

Yeah, talking facts.

Krugman's diatribe is devoid of facts, perspective, or nuance. His article reads "Trump bad. Trump does bad things. Trump is doing tariffs. Tariffs bad."

Great read for the politically blinded partisans. For anyone w a brain, just laugh and move on.

Liberals are now the party of free trade and globalism-awww.

Only difference between trump and all other pols is he doesn't hide shit cause he don't give a shit.
that fact alone makes him more palatable...

APOCALYPSEFUCKisShostikovitch says

You think he gives a shit? He's probably shorting a bunch of industries that the tariffs will destroy through a fund in Vanuatu.

because from the libby position we must pay for the sins of our ancestors ad nauseum...

twoscoopsplisken says

So why not tariff it? Everybody else is doing it, why should we be the bagholder?

European libbies have evolved past their ancestral guilt and now dance naked on the beaches of south france...

TwoScoopsPlissken says

If Trump is wrong to "Start a Trade War", why is the EU taxing Chinese Steel up to 75% and the many others at 28.5%?

We've been in a Trade war for over 30 years, and we've been getting our Clocked cleaned.

Nigga Pahleez!

TwoScoopsPlissken says

So you admit his call about the Stock Market in November 2016 was entirely wrong, then.

Yes, the guy writes a column every other day or something. Nobody can predict the stock market with any regularity. He thought the market would panic about Trump. I think he simply failed to factor in the tax consequences, which are in the market now.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

Or, when Krugman said in 1998 that the Internet wasn't going to keep growing so fast and that the impact would be no greater than the fax machine and that his then (1998) prophecy would be proven correct by 2005.

Actually things were way ahead of them-self going into Y2K. But sure he was wrong. How many of us foresaw social media ? Nobody can claim they foresaw that in 1998.But how many high flying internet stocks of 1998 are gone ?

We'll see. People in the business world seem almost unanimously opposed including right wingers such as Larry Kudlow, Trump's new economic adviser.

Tenpoundbass says

We've been in a Trade war for over 30 years

Labor saving costs on the other side of the world making it possible to undercut us on price (while also giving our consumers cheap goods while saving us from inflation) are not what most consider a trade war.

marcus says

Labor saving costs on the other side of the world making it possible to undercut us on price (while also giving our consumers cheap goods while saving us from inflation) are not what most consider a trade war.

See that's the difference in You and I.

When I say inflation I mean what I have to pay for Rent, Energy, Food, and Insurance and other inflated services.
But for You! You are talking about Warren Buffet, and the Investor Class getting free money from the Government. For them there is no Money inflation.

Without inflation in the financial markets, it's all manipulated Hogwash, and shame on you for being in education if you don't know that. I hope you don't teach math.
To say there's been no inflation, you're part of the problem and Obama had a scandal free Presidency too didn't he?

marcus says

Nobody can predict the stock market

marcus says

Nobody can claim they foresaw that in 1998

Except Paul Krugman thought he could forecast both.

When Krugman is also wrong about this prediction, which excuse shall we afford him?

Tenpoundbass says

When I say inflation I mean what I have to pay for Rent, Energy, Food, and Insurance and other inflated services.

When I say inflation in the quote, I'm referring to relative inflation, not absolute inflation. You don't think all of the cheap imports made by cheap labor haven't made a lot of products cheaper for American consumers than they would have been if everything was made here ? I guess you can argue that when so much of what we buy is cheap, it allows those liberal landlords to get higher rent from us. Maybe true (except the liberal part).

It's true though that I never had the deep understanding of how much the President controls, such as the price of oil, the width of airline seats, among other things. I'm sure if I did understand these things I might have voted for Trump.

CBOEtrader says

When Krugman is also wrong about this prediction, which excuse shall we afford him?

What about all the times he's been right ?

Metal Tariffs Still Dog USMCA - Ratifying New Trade Deal Depends on US Lifting Steel, Aluminum Tariffs

Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue talked about trade and the new U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement with his Canadian and Mexican counterparts at the USDA Agricultural Outlook Forum on Thursday. But a lingering problem remains over how and when the Trump administration would remove steel and aluminum tariffs against the country's closest trade partners.

To protect domestic steel and aluminum manufacturers, President Donald Trump last March placed national security "Section 232" tariffs of 25% on imported steel and 10% on imported aluminum. Canada and Mexico immediately responded with retaliatory tariffs, including tariffs on some agricultural products. Despite getting a new trade agreement to replace NAFTA, the tariffs remain in place.

Those steel and aluminum tariffs remain a thorn in getting the new USMCA trade deal ratified by Mexico and Canada. Perdue said he realizes U.S. farmers are getting hit with higher machinery costs because of steel and aluminum costs while commodity prices have declined or flattened. Perdue said, ideally, the tariffs will be lifted "sooner rather than later," but he had no specific knowledge on what's next.

"Again, the expectation among the ag sectors, in all our countries, were that once an agreement was reached on the U.S., Mexican, Canadian Agreement that the 232 tariffs on steel and aluminum would have been resolved as well," Perdue said.

Perdue later added that he and others "were hopeful and optimistic that the 232 tariffs can be resolved. Again, my opinion is resolving the 232 tariff issues between the three countries would probably be great incentive for ratification in all three."

The secretary defended Trump's rationale for setting the initial steel and aluminum tariffs that were meant to drive domestic metal production higher.

"The president listens," Perdue said. "Obviously, he has a different opinion regarding the benefits of tariffs at this point in time, although I think he's willing to consider one of the methods being used."

Canadian Agriculture Minister Lawrence MacAulay simply pointed to the steel and aluminum tariffs as "a problem" for the three countries that will need to be addressed. Canadian officials have said in the past they won't ratify the new trade deal until the tariffs are lifted.

Perdue indicated he was optimistic Congress could vote on the USMCA sometime early in the summer even though Democratic leaders have criticized the treaty's work on labor and environmental policies. Perdue said the trade deal is an improvement in several areas, including labor, the environment and biotechnology policy. Politics, however, is affecting the view of the new trade deal, Perdue said.

"I think what you see happening here is political conversation that at this point is unwilling to give the president the benefit of the doubt and vote on anything he wants for political purposes leading into 2020," Perdue said. "I think that would be devastating to the nation. We cannot continue to make these type of international decisions based on elected politics."

In addressing the potential of auto tariffs, Perdue said the European Union "has been somewhat recalcitrant" in dealing with the U.S. need to have agriculture as part of any trade talks, and the EU has pushed back on that. The U.S. has been open to EU exports, but has not gotten the same response.

"The president is prepared to use whatever leverage he may have," Perdue said.

CHINA TALKS

Regarding talks with China, Perdue said it was too early to get into specifics about increased agricultural exports, despite Bloomberg reporting China would agree in a memorandum of understanding to boost agricultural imports by as much as $30 billion. Perdue said all of this hinges on a bigger deal that requires structural reforms.

"Clearly, the real issue is structural reforms regarding intellectual property guarantees and enforcing those types of provisions, and I think if we could get those kind of assurances regarding China taking intellectual property theft seriously, then we could see a renewed and expanded agricultural trade between the two countries," Perdue said. "They have committed to quantities that are significant in that regard, but it's all contingent on the whole deal coming together."

The secretary added there also continued to be challenges negotiating with China on acceptance of biotechnology traits for crops. "China has been somewhat intransigent in their agreement and acceptance of those kinds of policies." Still, Perdue added he's "cautiously hopeful" both President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping want to come together and get a deal done.

Despite any potential negative changes in the trade talks with China, Perdue said the administration will not extend or create another program similar to the Market Facilitation Program, which has paid more than $8 billion to farmers affected by trade disruption. Perdue said farmers will go into the planting season with a better understanding of conditions rather than being hit by retaliatory tariffs in the middle of a crop year.

"Farmers have to do their marketing the same way they have always done -- look at markets and determine what they think is appropriate," Perdue said.

AFRICAN SWINE FEVER

Perdue also expressed concern about African swine fever hitting the swine herd in China and other parts of Asia.

Canada's MacAulay also pointed to the risk of swine fever making its way to North America, saying more work is needed to deal with swine fever isolation to reduce the risk on exports. MacAulay noted, "It just takes one (case) to cost us billions of dollars." He added, "I just hope we can deal with this issue not after it comes, but before it comes."

Perdue couldn't specifically detail some of the technical elements USDA is working on to protect the industry from African swine fever, but the protocols parallel what would happen in a foot-and-mouth outbreak.

"I can tell you it is on our minds every day of every week and has been ever since we saw the resurgence in China, and I know the industry is very anxious about that," Perdue said.

FEAR OF FOOD

Perdue also criticized what he sees as a movement, especially on social media, to criticize food production and safety. Perdue said these efforts are meant to deter biotechnology, and he called on people in agriculture to "fight the fear-your-food movement."

MacAulay later reiterated the importance of a science-based regulatory system to allow food production to increase. Such science would be needed to increase food production to match a rising global population. "That has to be done using all of the technology that we have, all of the means that we have," MacAulay said.

https://www.dtnpf.com/agriculture/web/ag/news/world-policy/article/2019/02/21/ratifying-new-trade-deal-depends-us

marcus says

Labor saving costs on the other side of the world

AKA slaves.

Kakistocracy says

To protect domestic steel and aluminum manufacturers, President Donald Trump last March placed national security "Section 232" tariffs of 25% on imported steel and 10% on imported aluminum. Canada and Mexico immediately responded with retaliatory tariffs, including tariffs on some agricultural products. Despite getting a new trade agreement to replace NAFTA, the tariffs remain in place.

Agricultural Employment (dominated by lettuce picking and fish gutting shitjobs by guest workers): 2,4M Jobs
Manufacturing (paying well above minimum wage): 12.5M Jobs

https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/employment-by-major-industry-sector.htm


Which one is more important?