patrick.net

Obligatory:
www.mPNyXjJAVZI

Herdingcats says

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats? Your silence will prove me right but feel free to link to the democrats platform so as to prove me wrong.

Abolish ICE. Here's a list of Prominent Democrats.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/02/politics/abolish-ice-democrats-list/index.html

Senator Warner to eliminate the Anti-Sex Trafficking Tactic of separating children from their alleged "Relatives" to see if Uncle Juan is really Pimp Juan.
https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2018/6/warner-kaine-introduce-legislation-to-end-cruel-policy-that-separates-children-from-their-parents-at-the-border

Warner, Schatz, Heitkamp and former RINOs Corker and Flake and others try to take away National Security Tariffs to prevent Trump from allowing China from duping the Steel and Aluminium that Europe and others already prevented.
https://www.warner.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2018/6/sen-warner-introduces-bipartisan-legislation-to-limit-national-security-designated-trade-tariffs

2016 Dem Platform:
For fun, do a search for "Border". The Democratic Party Platform talks about borders in Afghanistan, Russia, the Middle East, etc. - but not a single reference to our own border except a glittering generality about transnational world problems that cross borders.
https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

The Democratic Platform on immigration is wholly about the poor illegals in the shadows, the "denigration" of immigrants, fixing immigration backlogs, getting them on ACA plans, etc. and nothing about reducing their impact on wages, housing, school systems, and infrastructure. Chillingly, it talks of "No Religious Test", which is a codeword for "we'll let all the Muslims in". So the Dem Platform only thinks our massive immigration problem is one of not enough immigrants.

And enjoy the pro-Israel references. This is the last time you'll see those.

Herdingcats says

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats?

Even better, legislation: sanctuary state legislation in CA, for example.

Herdingcats says

Yes, I can. The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.

This is an over-simplification, but there's definitely truth to it. The right to travel freely is a God given right that no government should have the right to take away. I'm thinking mainly of the passport system, that didn't exist until WWII. A Libertarian mindset says let anyone in who isn't a criminal. But, and this is a BIG but, Libertarians also say no free handouts. And we are certainly in favor of jailing or deporting any law-breakers.

Goran_K says

Can anyone refute this guy's argument against Democrat open border immigration?

Are Republicans any better at cutting social services, eliminating free public education, or prosecuting employers of illegals? As none of those things have changed anytime recently, I'd say no. As usual, government is the problem, and left/right is just the distraction keeping you from identifying the solution.

NuttBoxer says

Are Republicans any better at cutting social services, eliminating free public education, or prosecuting employers of illegals?

For the most part, no. And that's why Trump got elected. Unfortunately, the swamp, RINOs, and Democrats are doing all that they can to thwart him and the preferences of the citizens.

At least Republicans are (nominally) against sanctuary cities.

Ok, but regardless of reasons or excuses, the bottom line is government isn't the answer, I don't give a fuck which side you think you're on. We want shit fixed, we have to do it ourselves.

Herdingcats says

Goran_K says

If so I'd like to hear the argument.

Yes, I can. The libertarians are the ones with the platform of advocating for open boarders.

https://openborders.info/libertarian/

Can you show a similar platform advocated by the democrats? Your silence will prove me right but feel free to link to the democrats platform so as to prove me wrong.

Nope, no silence here.

I feel like others have already done a great job of explaining, but Sanctuary Cities, SF registering illegals to vote, Abolish ICE etc,.

You won't address any of the above, so I guess your silence is going to be very telling as well.

20% of the US Population is Foreign Born.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/13/us/census-foreign-population.html

The next country is Germany, then Russia, both with just under 5%.

The USA has more than 400% foreign born as a percentage of the population, not raw numbers than the next two countries

That's overwhelmingly extreme and must be pared back at least 2/3rd

NuttBoxer says

passport system, that didn't exist until WWII

.

Not true.

We should only have open borders for ppl who're independently wealthy as thus, don't require a job of any sort.

This is exactly how I plan on retiring to Australia where there is legalized hoeing.

The foreign-born population ranking is mistaken. Germany and Russia are not even close to the top in terms of foreign-born percentage, not even the US! Countries like Kuwait, Qatar, UAE have more foreign-born population than native-born population (i.e. more than 50% are foreign-born). The reason is money/opportunity. Its just like NYC and SF have much higher percentage of transplants than Boondock does. The city of Detroit had more than 80% transplants from other parts of the US when the carmakers built the city in the 1910's and 1920's.

This brings into focus the real counter-point to the video: the real legit reason for allowing immigration is not our charity, but should be to our own benefit! primary in two ways:

1. People from poorer foreign countries tend to work harder after they arrive (before the age of welfare), harder than the coddled native borns. That's to the benefit of Americans.

2. Drain the brains of countries like Russia, China and India, so they don't out-compete us in the long run. This happened previously with Germans in the 19th century. US saved England in both WWI and WWII; Eisenhower was obviously of German ancestry.

What should be abolished is the welfare system. Stopping welfare has the additional advantage of forcing immigrants to integrate into American way of life and American value, instead of isolating themselves and building their 7th century sandcastles at taxpayer expense.

Reality says

What should be abolished is the welfare system.

Up until AI eliminates all jobs. Between now and then, we should only give welfare to those citizens (read: not on visa) whose jobs are permanently automated forever.

Rin says

give welfare to those citizens whose jobs are permanently automated forever.

Does that mean stevedores should receive welfare after the invention of cranes? How about farmers after the invention of steam tractor? Of course then the steam engine mechanics after the invention of diesel engine for tractors? Then Combines and GPS-directed self-driving Combines?

Only the old and truly disabled should be receiving charity . . . and private charity (i.e. run by competitive channels) can deal with frauds much more efficiently than government bureaucrats can. Of course private charities are more likely to help citizens instead of snackbar just coming off the boat. Foreign-funded charities should be banned, as they are usually arms of foreign governments.

Reality says

Rin says

give welfare to those citizens whose jobs are permanently automated forever.

Does that mean stevedores should receive welfare after the invention of cranes? How about farmers after the invention of steam tractor? Of course then the steam engine mechanics after the invention of diesel engine for tractors? Then Combines and GPS-directed self-driving Combines?

Only the old and truly disabled should be receiving charity . . . and private charity (i.e. run by competitive channels) can deal with frauds much more efficiently than government bureaucrats can.

Not this time around, those were the agricultural to industrial to service economy shifts.

This time, however, there will be no future economy for anyone to move into, once AI eliminates all jobs. The problem with today is that the workforce has so many inefficiencies, that we can maintain a long term contracting (non-full time) workforce for at least another generation. Afterwards, however, it'll all be gone.

Rin says

Not this time around, those were the agricultural to industrial to service economy shifts.

This time, however, there will be no future economy for anyone to move into, once AI eliminates all jobs. The problem with today is that the workforce has so many inefficiencies, that we can maintain a long term contracting (non-full time) workforce for at least another generation. Afterwards, however, it'll all be gone.

When AI eliminates all human jobs, AI will eliminate all humans or turn human beings into pets (and the pound usually puts a limit on how many days the strays are kept); that's a decision for them to make.

So far, the evidence is that human beings are still the most versatile tool on the planet. However, they have a built-in preference for leisure. So removing the incentive to find new jobs or work will quickly reduce people to idleness, as all the socialist experiments found out (from Mayflower to Soviet Union).

Herdingcats says

I asked you to show us where this proof of this Democratic open boarders platform was. None has been linked.

These threads already exist and those discussions should happen in the appropriate places. Why should I discuss off topic issues here?

lol, like I said. Totally ignoring all evidence and avoiding discussion altogether just as predicted.

Herdingcats says

All of which is off topic and should be flagged.

Don't worry about such things, the mods will flag when appropriate. You're wrong in your assumptions.

However IMO you ignoring the topic and not addressing points while being argumentative is trolling. We'll see how long that lasts.

The Proof in the Democratic Platform.

All of the problems they want to fix are about helping and increasing immigrants, not enforcing the laws.

They list nothing concrete about how they intend to implement new or enforce old border or immigration laws for control purposes. Only to facilitate immigration and help immigrants.

Herdingcats says

Does ICE = boarder patrol?

Half of all illegal immigrants come in via airports, and are the responsibility of ICE, not the Border Patrol.

Herdingcats says

What do sectuary cities have to do with open boarders?

You're being facetious. Sanctuary Cities by definition are where local Law Enforcement is restricted largely or wholly from assisting ICE operations or alerting ICE, whose responsibility deporting immigrants is. Or any Federal Authority.

Herdingcats says

Or what does SF registering illegals to vote for education issues at we're their legal kids go to school have to do with open boarders?

It's part and parcel of encouraging and welcoming illegal border crossers. Allowing them to dilute the vote of actual citizens is encouraging illegal immigration.

Herdingcats says

Does ICE = boarder patrol?

Half of all illegal immigrants come in via airports, and are the responsibility of ICE, not the Border Patrol.

Herdingcats says

What do sectuary cities have to do with open boarders?

You're being facetious. Sanctuary Cities by definition are where local Law Enforcement is restricted largely or wholly from assisting ICE operations or alerting ICE, whose responsibility deporting immigrants is. Or any Federal Authority.

Herdingcats says

Or what does SF registering illegals to vote for education issues at we're their legal kids go to school have to do with open boarders?

It's part and parcel of encouraging and welcoming illegal border crossers. Allowing them to dilute the vote of actual citizens is encouraging illegal immigration.

Reality says

Countries like Kuwait, Qatar, UAE have more foreign-born population than native-born population (i.e. more than 50% are foreign-born).

Those are Slaves... I mean, guest workers who have their passports taken and regularly beaten and abused. Kuwaitis flipped out when the government mandated a single day off for "Domestic (Slave) Laborers".

Also, Germany, Russia, France, UK, Brazil, etc. are Real Regular to Large sized countries, not little Sultanates like Kuwait or Qatar with a long history of living off slave labor and producing nothing but repacking exports between east and west with a markup

Herdingcats says

Which is not open boarder. Tell me if Republicans really wanted a change made to the immigration policies why didn't they do something about it when they had control of the House and Senate?

Like I said, go read it.

It has NOTHING to say about regulating the border. Every suggestion the Democrats make both in there and in public has to do with MOAR immigrants, less enforcement, etc.

Airports ARE Border Areas, btw.

Herdingcats says

really? Sounds like ICE is doing a terrible job. Why do they let them in if they are illegal?

Think carefully about how somebody could come to the country legally and then be illegal.

(Hint, it's stapled inside a passport).

Herdingcats says

No really, what do sanctuary Cities have to do with open boarders? They really are to separate issues.

You're basically saying "Once you sneak across the border to over here, we won't report you to immigration agencies."

So yes, that's encouraging an open border.

Herdingcats says

I disagree, yet still is a separate issue as to open boarders.

Again, you're rewarding illegal border crossers with an unearned benefit. Thus encouraging an open border by non-enforcement.

Let me ask YOU a question. What new idea or extra funding does the Democrat House have planned for border enforcement, which is obviously inadequate given that hundreds of thousands illegally cross borders each year?

Herdingcats says

And they don't let illegals in at the airport. Airlines are fined big league for having a passenger arrive without a passport. So please don't insult my intelligence and be honest and admit no illegals enter at the airport but they do become illegal when they overstay their visa. Which brings me to another question, can you please tell me how a wall is going to stop this practice of people overstaying thier visa?

That was MY question to you. Of course, they overstay their visa.

Now, how do you capture visa overstayers? You must have the cooperation of state and local governments and institutions, which is how sanctuary cities and non-cooperative policies that Democrats (who dominate Urban Areas and Academia) support. Because of their non-cooperation, capture and punishment of visa overstayers is rare and thus not an effective disincentive to this form of illegal immigration.

The difference between crossing the border illegally vs. entering on false pretenses to be a student or tourist or short term worker is the difference between theft by burglary or theft by fraud. Both are crimes, only the method is different.

Herdingcats says

I asked you a question, why, when Republicans had control of the House and Senate didn't they do anything about immigration?

Name one accomplishment of Paul Ryan in his 20 years of Congress.

Seriously, before Trump, the Republicans were just the Cheapskate Conservatives, concerned only with Taxes. The Democrats want to undermine the nation state, so they both agreed not to do anything to prevent illegal immigration and keep legal immigration sky high.

Which is why, despite tepid GDP growth since 2000, we have unjustifiably high, 1910s levels of Foreign Born. It's also why housing costs have exploded.

Herdingcats says

No really, what do sanctuary Cities have to do with open boarders? They really are to separate issues

Telling an illegal that you enter our state and city you will not be caught and returned does nothing to encourage more ilelgals pouring in???. DEms want iopen borders, dems want more illegals and no consequences for being illegal.

BUt strangely dems also want 15 dolalrs per hour wages-why would you pay a legal person 15 bucks an hour when you can pay an illegal 3 or 5 bucks?????????????????????

The US can't solve poverty for the world; it can't solve it for the US.

Politically, both parties have an unofficial open border policy.

Beck’s argument is pretty much an open and shut case. There’s no debate. If we didn’t have borders billions of people would come to America immediately. It is amazing to me how many people don’t realize this. I think many Americans are naïvely oblivious to the way most of the worlds population lives , and how amazingly fortunate they are to be a citizen of United States, at any socioeconomic level , or of any first world country. People are just oblivious to how brutal life can be and is for the majority of people on the planet.
Most of the worlds population are still involved in a daily life and death struggle, with very little modern medicine ,food shortages and where health problems that we easily take care of are fatal. The people in these countries have zero chance of getting out of their situation for the most part . It made sense to have a lot of immigration into the country when we needed to increase the population, but now, we have plenty of people.
Allowing impoverished and uneducated and helpless immigrants in does not help the country, and letting them in is not in the interests of the majority of the population of United States.

Herdingcats says

Goran_K says

However IMO you ignoring the topic

Is the topic democrats open boarder policy? That's what I thought you said in the OP. I didn't know the topic was sanctuary cities or SF letting illegals vote for school board members or what ever other topic was brought up. So again I ask where is the link to democrats stating they want open boarders. Please I beg of you link to somewhere were I can see this open boarder policy that you say the Democrats have.

I do not dispute that their policies encourage people to cross the boarder but that is not equal to having an open boarder platform. You have yet to prove me wrong.

As explained above their policies are in effect open borders. They cannot legally call it that obviously, since they would be admitting to their crimes, but it is open borders through policy.