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California could be coming for your kitchen stove next (plus your water heater, clothes dryer, etc.)
2019 Apr 8, 11:49am 6,440 views 27 comments
by zzyzzx follow (9)
Comments 1 - 17 of 27 Next » Last » Search these comments
1
zzyzzx
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2019 Apr 8, 11:50am
zzyzzx
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2019 Apr 8, 11:50am
This is some seriously faulty logic, since any new electric power plants are likely to burn natural gas to create the electricity.
2
ForcedTQ
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2019 Apr 8, 12:13pm
Don't forget, mandatory TOU rates start October 2020 for PG&E/SCE customers. Your simple tiered rate structure goes away and it gets even MORE crucial to manage your energy use during part peak and peak times of the day. You won't be just trying to keep the total monthly bill below a certain amount to keep from getting grifted.
3
EBGuy
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2019 Apr 8, 12:19pm
ForcedTQ says
Gentlemen... start your batteries. The duck will not be denied.
For those of you playing along at home peak rates will be from 4-9pm or 3-8pm.
Don't forget, mandatory TOU rates start October 2020 for PG&E/SCE customers. Your simple tiered rate structure goes away and it gets even MORE crucial to manage your energy use during part peak and peak times of the day.
Gentlemen... start your batteries. The duck will not be denied.
For those of you playing along at home peak rates will be from 4-9pm or 3-8pm.
4
HeadSet
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2019 Apr 8, 12:33pm
HeadSet
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2019 Apr 8, 12:33pm
Well, lemme see.
Adaptations to this new normal will be more efficient appliances and local solar. Solar being rooftop or neighborhood arrays with home Tesla style batteries as a buffer. More efficient appliances means tiny Euro style washers, tiny oven/stoves, and maybe even a clothesline.
Well, unless you are rich, what else are you going to do? If you want unfettered immigration population growth, and you believe in AGW, cutting carbon means lots less energy for the common person.
Adaptations to this new normal will be more efficient appliances and local solar. Solar being rooftop or neighborhood arrays with home Tesla style batteries as a buffer. More efficient appliances means tiny Euro style washers, tiny oven/stoves, and maybe even a clothesline.
Well, unless you are rich, what else are you going to do? If you want unfettered immigration population growth, and you believe in AGW, cutting carbon means lots less energy for the common person.
6
RC2006
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2019 Apr 8, 4:14pm
RC2006
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2019 Apr 8, 4:14pm
Sounds like a scam to sell heat pumps and new stoves. Of course dumb asses here will be thinking free upgrades with no regard to who is paying.
7
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
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2019 Apr 8, 4:30pm
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
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2019 Apr 8, 4:30pm
Wtf, constant attempts to make electricity expensive as fuck.
8
SunnyvaleCA
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2019 Apr 8, 5:04pm
Unless we can get all our electricity from "renewables" I'd rather stick with the most efficient of carbon-based fuels for the heating. Even if California got all its electricity from renewables, the next step would be selling that surplus electricity to other states that are still using carbon-based fuels to generate electricity.
That said, I love my induction cooktop. I wouldn't trade it for a gas one even if it does cost me a whole $2 a month to operate.
That said, I love my induction cooktop. I wouldn't trade it for a gas one even if it does cost me a whole $2 a month to operate.
9
EBGuy
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2019 Apr 8, 6:05pm
Here is a quick analysis I did last year. I updated to current PGE rates for gas and electricity.
For natural gas, one therm (100,000 Btus) releases 11.7 pounds CO2 and costs $1.31.
For electricity .294 pounds of CO2 are released per kWh (1 kWh = 3,413 Btus) therefore 8.614 lbs CO2 per therm for $6.38. However, if you can hit 300% efficiency with the heat pump, you're down to $2.13 per therm which is getting in the neighborhood of natural gas. You can see why heat pumps are so attractive (at least from an emissions prospective).
EDIT: I forgot this tidbit. If you're heating with electricity, you'll be using nuclear energy (24% of PG&Es electric mix).
For natural gas, one therm (100,000 Btus) releases 11.7 pounds CO2 and costs $1.31.
For electricity .294 pounds of CO2 are released per kWh (1 kWh = 3,413 Btus) therefore 8.614 lbs CO2 per therm for $6.38. However, if you can hit 300% efficiency with the heat pump, you're down to $2.13 per therm which is getting in the neighborhood of natural gas. You can see why heat pumps are so attractive (at least from an emissions prospective).
EDIT: I forgot this tidbit. If you're heating with electricity, you'll be using nuclear energy (24% of PG&Es electric mix).
10
Booger
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2019 Apr 8, 6:25pm
Booger
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2019 Apr 8, 6:25pm
EBGuy says
The Dems want to shut those down.
EDIT: I forgot this tidbit. If you're heating with electricity, you'll be using nuclear energy (24% of PG&Es electric mix).
The Dems want to shut those down.
11
RWSGFY
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2019 Apr 8, 6:40pm
RWSGFY
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2019 Apr 8, 6:40pm
Booger says
Practically done deal in CA.
EBGuy saysEDIT: I forgot this tidbit. If you're heating with electricity, you'll be using nuclear energy (24% of PG&Es electric mix).
The Dems want to shut those down.
Practically done deal in CA.
12
ForcedTQ
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2019 Apr 8, 7:07pm
San Onofre (SONGS) already said bye bye. Diablo says bye bye in 2023 or so. And these fucking retards have NO RELIABLE OPTIONS for replacing that lost 24% of base supply..... Rolling blackouts coming soon, better get your generator/storage system lined up!
13
Bd6r
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2019 Apr 8, 7:12pm
Bd6r
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2019 Apr 8, 7:12pm
ForcedTQ says
Enron, here we come the second time
nd these fucking retards have NO RELIABLE OPTIONS for replacing that lost 24% of base supply
Enron, here we come the second time
14
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
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2019 Apr 8, 8:40pm
FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut
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2019 Apr 8, 8:40pm
d6rB says
Dude I was thinking exactly the same thing. Those mother fuckers at Enron were pulling strings last time to create those.
I swear if we get those, some assholes in government should be publicly executed for this shit.
ForcedTQ saysnd these fucking retards have NO RELIABLE OPTIONS for replacing that lost 24% of base supply
Enron, here we come the second time
Dude I was thinking exactly the same thing. Those mother fuckers at Enron were pulling strings last time to create those.
I swear if we get those, some assholes in government should be publicly executed for this shit.
16
Ceffer
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2019 Oct 12, 11:44am
Ceffer
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2019 Oct 12, 11:44am
ForcedTQ says
Won't matter. They have Great Socialist Paradise Grifting Panels devoted to 'fake altruism and social benignity' offenses that are nothing more than further graft enabling taxes, surcharges, fines, fees, licenses, etc. etc. to draw attention away from their waste, corruption, and failure to support reasonable infrastructure while directing more money to their salaries, benefits, and pensions.
You won't be just trying to keep the total monthly bill below a certain amount to keep from getting grifted.
Won't matter. They have Great Socialist Paradise Grifting Panels devoted to 'fake altruism and social benignity' offenses that are nothing more than further graft enabling taxes, surcharges, fines, fees, licenses, etc. etc. to draw attention away from their waste, corruption, and failure to support reasonable infrastructure while directing more money to their salaries, benefits, and pensions.
17
Hircus
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2019 Oct 12, 2:17pm
Hircus
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2019 Oct 12, 2:17pm
The article said
I'm not sure if more than half is accurate. CA loves to play tricks with their energy stats and charts. CA imports a lot of electricity from other states, and so they play this game where they always talk about the % of green energy that the state produces, but cleverly avoid the % of green energy the state actually consumes. The imported energy was mostly fossil sources and "unspecified sources" last I looked.
Basically, they shift the dirty electric generation out of the state, then import it. This probably helps them virtue signal, and also helps to meet some of their political promises about reaching X% green energy by year Y. It probably also made some ppl in the energy industry very rich by being able to benefit from this energy change.
They point out that the electricity supply is getting cleaner — California got more than half its power from climate-friendly sources such as solar and wind in 2017, and is aiming for 100% by 2045 — while gas continues to emit carbon dioxide when burned.
I'm not sure if more than half is accurate. CA loves to play tricks with their energy stats and charts. CA imports a lot of electricity from other states, and so they play this game where they always talk about the % of green energy that the state produces, but cleverly avoid the % of green energy the state actually consumes. The imported energy was mostly fossil sources and "unspecified sources" last I looked.
Basically, they shift the dirty electric generation out of the state, then import it. This probably helps them virtue signal, and also helps to meet some of their political promises about reaching X% green energy by year Y. It probably also made some ppl in the energy industry very rich by being able to benefit from this energy change.
Comments 1 - 17 of 27 Next » Last » Search these comments
One of the things they are apparently thinking about doing now is getting rid of natural gas appliances in homes and businesses. The idea is to replace millions of gas stoves, gas dryers and gas heaters with replacements that run on electricity to help fight climate change.
you're talking about replacing several major appliances in millions of homes. For instance, I have a gas stove, a gas water heater, a gas home heater, and a gas dryer. Some of those are less than 2 years old. But, depending on how aggressive Democrats in Sacramento get with this plan, I might have to replace all of those. And the cost of the appliance is just part of it. Electric stoves and dryers need 220-volt power supplies to operate. I don't have 220 lines installed in my kitchen or garage. Who is going to pay to retrofit all of that? Probably me, but also possibly everyone in California:
I'm not convinced about the savings part of this equation. I can use all of my gas appliances routinely and the bill is still very cheap (around $20 a month except in the winter) because the cost of gas is so cheap. But electricity in California is sold in tiers. Those who only use a tiny amount for the month, pay very little. But most homes are going to use enough to push the rates into the upper tiers where the cost per kilowatt hour is significantly higher. The purpose of this is to induce people to save energy. But the practical result is going to be much higher bills if I'm suddenly using electricity to heat water, cook, heat the house, and dry clothes on top of everything else. It's hard to estimate what the increased price will be but I'm certain it's going to be a lot more than my current gas bill, probably several times more. So on top of the cost of replacing appliances and adding new electrical wiring to my home, there's going to be a higher monthly bill as well.