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Fuck Electric Vehicles, But More Importantly, Fuck Their Sanctimonious Owners.
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2019 May 3, 8:59am 7,341 views 194 comments
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40
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 5:59am
rocketjoe79 says
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
This is what I like.
Yeah but the cost of the car is not factored into that chart. Likely a financed vehicle so that $908 would be eaten by the loan to a comparable sized ICE car in 3 months and then you're paying more monthly. Factor in EV's don't pay MFT yet, the cost will go up through registration or your electric bill in the coming years. Just because they're zippy, doesn't mean they're light cars. A Tesla is causing more damage to roads than a an ICE car paying the taxes for you.
I also usually keep a car for 10 years. Besides gas and oil changes I have all the same maintenance as an EV. Maybe an alternator or starter, but those are relatively cheap repairs Never had to replace an engine. Always get 200k miles out of my cars. With lithium the batteries degrade over time as well. I don't think I'd see 200k miles out of a Tesla without a battery pack swap at the tune of a used car, like $20k to get it back on the road. So that would literally eat all the savings or get I have to get rid of a useless car for pennies.
I get the hype for EV's. The math doesn't add up though. The one factor no one considers is time. I'm not going to sit there and wait for a charge when I can get 400 miles in 3 minutes ICE vehicles. I'd lose $100 in the time waiting to get a full charge at least in productive time. Or the time finding a charger in rural areas with range fear. There're plentiful in CA, but not in my area of IL. Maybe at the big truck stops, but they're not at your local small town gas station.
EV's are for sure more expensive. It's a fun car to drive. That's not a value to me that is worth the higher cost. And the costs are 100% for sure higher for a comparable ICE car that just does 0-60 in 6 seconds instead of 3. Excessive acceleration will get you pulled over in most states. Call me a geezer driver, but it's provably dangerous.
41
clambo
2024 Apr 7, 6:58am
The only guy I know who owns a Tesla was bragging about how he got a tax credit for it. He's the epitome of a smug owner.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
He's smug and likes to brag about his "real estate holdings"; he has a house with his wife and they have another one which is rented out.
When I see him at a barbecue he brings a cooler and pounds Budweisers like no tomorrow; I don't know where it goes, he must have a hollow leg.
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
42
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:40am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:40am
clambo says
Off the subject: if you guys are someday seeking an income investment which is not four walls and a roof, check out SPYI.
It's got a high yield.
43
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:48am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:48am
clambo says
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
He also complains that FPL doesn't pay him for the energy he produces from his vast solar panel installation on his house roof.
He's not satisfied that he pays no bill each month; he wants them to pay him some money.
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
44
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 7:50am
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 7:50am
HeadSet says
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
I have talked to several "net zero" rooftop solar homeowners around here and unlike your Tesla bud, none have complained about not being paid by Dominion Power. Net Zero is fair, since although they supply free power to Dominion during the day, they get free power from Dominion at night.
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
45
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 8:43am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 8:43am
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way." The grid can use several inputs along the way, including company solar fields and home solar panels. A home source just needs to match 240v, 60Hz, and the correct phase to input the grid, which is the whole purpose of a grid-tie inverter. Notice also that a grid connected PV system must have transfer switches to disconnect during a power failure, to protect the lineman from shock from electricity flowing from a solar home into the grid to other houses. Also, systems would not need anti-islanding circuits if power from a one PV system did not feed other homes. True, having lots of home PV with its intermittent nature and varying power quality will stress power company components like voltage regulators and relays, but that is an issue for the RichWicks types to fix while the power company routinely makes use of home PV input.
Dominion doesn't get shit. The excess power generated gets burned off as heat at the neighborhood substation because the grid was built to push power in only one direction.
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way." The grid can use several inputs along the way, including company solar fields and home solar panels. A home source just needs to match 240v, 60Hz, and the correct phase to input the grid, which is the whole purpose of a grid-tie inverter. Notice also that a grid connected PV system must have transfer switches to disconnect during a power failure, to protect the lineman from shock from electricity flowing from a solar home into the grid to other houses. Also, systems would not need anti-islanding circuits if power from a one PV system did not feed other homes. True, having lots of home PV with its intermittent nature and varying power quality will stress power company components like voltage regulators and relays, but that is an issue for the RichWicks types to fix while the power company routinely makes use of home PV input.
47
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 9:54am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 9:54am
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
HeadSet says
Um, no. Remember, the grid is AC, not "one way."
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
48
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 10:42am
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 10:42am
HeadSet says
Well. After reading that, I will agree that we were both correct and incorrect.
I used substation wrong. Distribution transformer or what is between that and the local substation is probably more accurate.
It is one way. Because the equipment involved was deliberately designed as such in order to get better performance on the direction it was initially designed to do. Or to extend its service lifetime. Or both.
EV charging at night isn't in the design use model either. These distribution transformers were designed to last 40 years ONLY IF their use at night was minimized for several hours so they could cool down. But now with EVs pulling some serious juice down 6-8 hours each night, these things will need to be replaced every 4-6 years. They already cost 10x than they did a couple of years ago...and the waiting list is 2 years and growing.
Oh, and all rate payers will be on the hook for these. It should only be the EV fucks like @Eman and @socal2 who pay for this damage. They caused it.
Still. It is true that A/C flows both ways. But what A/C distribution equipment actually does are two different things.
Nice snark. I assume that you are implying the step down of a substation makes it "one way" even though you seemed to imply no house could feed PV into the grid as all houses feed directly to the local substation and thus burn off as heat. Around here, a substation feeds hundreds of houses. I will admit that my AC comment was a bit inane, but so is the idea that home PV feeding the grid is useless because the power system is "one way."
Well. After reading that, I will agree that we were both correct and incorrect.
I used substation wrong. Distribution transformer or what is between that and the local substation is probably more accurate.
It is one way. Because the equipment involved was deliberately designed as such in order to get better performance on the direction it was initially designed to do. Or to extend its service lifetime. Or both.
EV charging at night isn't in the design use model either. These distribution transformers were designed to last 40 years ONLY IF their use at night was minimized for several hours so they could cool down. But now with EVs pulling some serious juice down 6-8 hours each night, these things will need to be replaced every 4-6 years. They already cost 10x than they did a couple of years ago...and the waiting list is 2 years and growing.
Oh, and all rate payers will be on the hook for these. It should only be the EV fucks like @Eman and @socal2 who pay for this damage. They caused it.
Still. It is true that A/C flows both ways. But what A/C distribution equipment actually does are two different things.
49
yawaraf
2024 Apr 7, 10:52am
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
50
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 11:18am
WookieMan
2024 Apr 7, 11:18am
yawaraf says
It's wear and tear. Don't need to know a thing about it really. Night time used to be the least used time of usage. You now have equipment with 24/7 demand. Warm months for air conditioning AND now charging cars at night. Usually after 10pm no air con is needed, people go to sleep and don't need electric. It's the least demand time of the day.
Now certain regions are getting high demand ALL day and night because of EV's. The grid wasn't built for that. And solar and wind aren't gonna cover for the night time needs. CA specifically probably has 5-10x's as much electric usage at night now. On top of the normal daytime usage.
TL:DR - Our electric grids cannot sustain EV's for probably another 10 years without massive issues and adding more power by a shit load.
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
It's wear and tear. Don't need to know a thing about it really. Night time used to be the least used time of usage. You now have equipment with 24/7 demand. Warm months for air conditioning AND now charging cars at night. Usually after 10pm no air con is needed, people go to sleep and don't need electric. It's the least demand time of the day.
Now certain regions are getting high demand ALL day and night because of EV's. The grid wasn't built for that. And solar and wind aren't gonna cover for the night time needs. CA specifically probably has 5-10x's as much electric usage at night now. On top of the normal daytime usage.
TL:DR - Our electric grids cannot sustain EV's for probably another 10 years without massive issues and adding more power by a shit load.
51
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 11:30am
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 11:30am
yawaraf says
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
52
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 2:39pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 2:39pm
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
Yeah, it's a bad design.
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Really, if you're producing too much power from a solar system, you can just disconnect. All that happens is the panels heat up. Alternatively you can just dump in the form of heat. You could have a large tank of water that just heats up and stores hot water during a surplus.
yawaraf says
Your premise is interesting. I did not know that the power grid had this limitation. I would be curious to know what components restrict the flow of power.
Conductors, transformers and switches are not "one way". Power and current can flow through these elements in either direction.
https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/63042.pdf
Yeah, it's a bad design.
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Really, if you're producing too much power from a solar system, you can just disconnect. All that happens is the panels heat up. Alternatively you can just dump in the form of heat. You could have a large tank of water that just heats up and stores hot water during a surplus.
53
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 5:51pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Apr 7, 5:51pm
monryrichwicks says
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
Not having a time machine to see how shit would be used in the future in ways that can't be predicted otherwise is not rational.
richwicks says
Agreed. Micro smart grids too. That costs money and resources.
Yeah, it's a bad design.
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
Not having a time machine to see how shit would be used in the future in ways that can't be predicted otherwise is not rational.
richwicks says
I think power systems should move to a cooperative type system.
Agreed. Micro smart grids too. That costs money and resources.
55
SunnyvaleCA
2024 Apr 7, 6:25pm
As for grid distribution of home solar power, that is changing in a hurry around here with new rules from 2022. Now a homeowner gets only 25¢ on the dollar for home generation credit. The result is that new installations after the cutoff rules change in 2022 are adding a few kilowatt-hours of battery storage so that the home rarely (if ever) passes power back to the grid. I suppose even more options would present themselves if the homeowner additionally owned an electric car.
On the other hand, I can't help but think that every solar home having its own set of batteries is an economical idea. For that matter, I don't think every home having its own solar panels is such a good idea. How about if no homes had panels but the local supermarket put all those panels in one giant installation on the flat roof of the supermarket and over top of the in-great-need-of-shade parking lot. All that capacity in a single convenient place and managed all at once instead of each homeowner dealing with the ins-and-outs of solar.
On the other hand, I can't help but think that every solar home having its own set of batteries is an economical idea. For that matter, I don't think every home having its own solar panels is such a good idea. How about if no homes had panels but the local supermarket put all those panels in one giant installation on the flat roof of the supermarket and over top of the in-great-need-of-shade parking lot. All that capacity in a single convenient place and managed all at once instead of each homeowner dealing with the ins-and-outs of solar.
56
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 6:28pm
richwicks
2024 Apr 7, 6:28pm
UkraineIsTotallyFucked says
No, the power system is a bad design. We still have the same basic power system we did in 1950. There's all these problems with residential customers producing power, which is stupid - it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I'm not a power engineer, but I know this can be fixed, and CERTAINLY can be fixed today.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
This doesn't damage the panels, with the inverter entirely off, ALL the power is dissipated in the panels.
Maybe it's cost that prohibits this? Maybe the cost of the inverter would skyrocket? I don't know.
If we distributed power, we are no longer dependent on central points of control, I think that's why it's not done honestly.
Are our roads a bad design because heavy EVs are wearing them down more than expected?
No, the power system is a bad design. We still have the same basic power system we did in 1950. There's all these problems with residential customers producing power, which is stupid - it shouldn't be a problem at all.
I'm not a power engineer, but I know this can be fixed, and CERTAINLY can be fixed today.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
This doesn't damage the panels, with the inverter entirely off, ALL the power is dissipated in the panels.
Maybe it's cost that prohibits this? Maybe the cost of the inverter would skyrocket? I don't know.
If we distributed power, we are no longer dependent on central points of control, I think that's why it's not done honestly.
57
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:05pm
HeadSet
2024 Apr 7, 7:05pm
richwicks says
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
58
ForcedTQ
2024 Apr 7, 9:08pm
HeadSet says
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. A manual transfer switch requires one to monitor the grid and operate it when the power goes out. Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities, the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz. So in those instances they will need another inverter that can (possibly hooked up to batteries) or a generator to make the sine wave or “utility power” in this case.
richwicks says
If you have a solar array, and the power goes out, your power goes out - doesn't matter if the sun is shining or not. The reason this happens is because otherwise the lines are electrified. This is easily remedied, isolate the home from the grid, and excess power is simply not consumed by the inverter, and is dissipated in the panels.
Around here, that is a non-issue remedied by using a transfer switch. This old time device disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure, just like when using a natural gas generator for backup power. Your house is still powered by your solar even after the transfer switch disconnects you from the grid.
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch. A manual transfer switch requires one to monitor the grid and operate it when the power goes out. Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities, the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz. So in those instances they will need another inverter that can (possibly hooked up to batteries) or a generator to make the sine wave or “utility power” in this case.
59
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 7:59am
HeadSet
2024 Apr 8, 7:59am
ForcedTQ says
That is what "disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure" means. I have examined several solar installs and houses with backup natural gas generators, and I have never seen a transfer switch that was not automatic
.
ForcedTQ says
So? You do not need inverter "islanding" if you have a transfer switch. Also, "islanding" is not "the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz." Any grid connected inverter must match frequency, phase, and voltage to commercial power. Again, I have seen several "net zero" solar installs, and every one of them had an inverter that put out clean commercial grade power. Even if you are totally off grid with solar and only need house level electricity, you need an inverter that can put out 60Hz, 120v (for home), 3 phase if you are running electronics like computers or modern appliances. Notice that even portable generators from Harbor Freight and Honda have an "inverter style" just to protect whatever sensitive electronics you plug in at the camp site or tailgate party. But if one is totally of grid, a better idea IMO is to stick with DC and use DC appliances that are made for motor homes.
In order for it to disconnect you from the grid you need an Automatic Transfer Switch.
That is what "disconnects you from the grid when it senses a power line failure" means. I have examined several solar installs and houses with backup natural gas generators, and I have never seen a transfer switch that was not automatic
.
ForcedTQ says
Also, most inverters that people have on their houses don’t have “islanding” capabilities
So? You do not need inverter "islanding" if you have a transfer switch. Also, "islanding" is not "the ability to generate the base sine wave of 60hz." Any grid connected inverter must match frequency, phase, and voltage to commercial power. Again, I have seen several "net zero" solar installs, and every one of them had an inverter that put out clean commercial grade power. Even if you are totally off grid with solar and only need house level electricity, you need an inverter that can put out 60Hz, 120v (for home), 3 phase if you are running electronics like computers or modern appliances. Notice that even portable generators from Harbor Freight and Honda have an "inverter style" just to protect whatever sensitive electronics you plug in at the camp site or tailgate party. But if one is totally of grid, a better idea IMO is to stick with DC and use DC appliances that are made for motor homes.
61
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Aug 19, 10:05pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Aug 19, 10:05pm
But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.
Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.
Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.
62
WookieMan
2024 Aug 19, 10:38pm
WookieMan
2024 Aug 19, 10:38pm
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
This will be annual everywhere and it's low. Just wait EV owners. I wouldn't be shocked to see $500 annual registration fees in some states. Mostly northern states with freeze thaw. Even the sedans are heavy as fuck because of the batteries. Factor in price of any EV for a comparable ICE car and you're in the hole $10k easy out the gate without the higher registration.
EV's are like giving a liberal a gun and they shoot themselves in the foot. Oh well. I'll keep my gas guzzler.
This will be annual everywhere and it's low. Just wait EV owners. I wouldn't be shocked to see $500 annual registration fees in some states. Mostly northern states with freeze thaw. Even the sedans are heavy as fuck because of the batteries. Factor in price of any EV for a comparable ICE car and you're in the hole $10k easy out the gate without the higher registration.
EV's are like giving a liberal a gun and they shoot themselves in the foot. Oh well. I'll keep my gas guzzler.
63
Eric Holder
2024 Aug 20, 12:45pm
Eric Holder
2024 Aug 20, 12:45pm
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?
But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.
Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.
Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?
64
WookieMan
2024 Aug 20, 12:54pm
WookieMan
2024 Aug 20, 12:54pm
Eric Holder says
Yeah, you need at least 220V on a 50amp breaker. The funny part is if you have natural gas, LED lights, efficient appliances, etc. you could power a 1,500 sq. ft. house on that. But that's what you'd need to power a car. Ain't cheap to run that at home either. Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV. Talking a sedan too. CT or a Rivian would be even more. At least $20k in the hole.
How much gas is that? Oil change? All other maintenance is pretty similar. Maybe a starter or muffler. Still way cheaper for an ICE. Better range. Easier fill up.
Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?
Yeah, you need at least 220V on a 50amp breaker. The funny part is if you have natural gas, LED lights, efficient appliances, etc. you could power a 1,500 sq. ft. house on that. But that's what you'd need to power a car. Ain't cheap to run that at home either. Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV. Talking a sedan too. CT or a Rivian would be even more. At least $20k in the hole.
How much gas is that? Oil change? All other maintenance is pretty similar. Maybe a starter or muffler. Still way cheaper for an ICE. Better range. Easier fill up.
65
stfu
2024 Aug 20, 3:50pm
WookieMan says
May be $3k for an attached garage where you only have to fish through drywall and 2x4's. 220VAC 50A requires 3x6AWG conductors and a ground wire. If you have a detached garage you'll be running that through Schedule 80/40PVC at 18inch depth or IMT conduit (metal) at 12 inch depth with the appropriate sub panel and isolated grounding rods installed in the out building. Around here you would be looking at $10k for that much work if you hired an electrician.
I'm all on board with EV's as long as we are limiting that to Weed wackers and leaf blowers. I love not having to get an ICE engine running to do a 15 minute job on my yard. As far as driving anywhere past the end of my driveway in a four wheeled version of my Greenworks leaf blower? Naw ... I'm good with my V8 pickup.
Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV.
May be $3k for an attached garage where you only have to fish through drywall and 2x4's. 220VAC 50A requires 3x6AWG conductors and a ground wire. If you have a detached garage you'll be running that through Schedule 80/40PVC at 18inch depth or IMT conduit (metal) at 12 inch depth with the appropriate sub panel and isolated grounding rods installed in the out building. Around here you would be looking at $10k for that much work if you hired an electrician.
I'm all on board with EV's as long as we are limiting that to Weed wackers and leaf blowers. I love not having to get an ICE engine running to do a 15 minute job on my yard. As far as driving anywhere past the end of my driveway in a four wheeled version of my Greenworks leaf blower? Naw ... I'm good with my V8 pickup.
66
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Aug 20, 4:28pm
DOGEWontAmountToShit
2024 Aug 20, 4:28pm
DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says
And surprise! Surprise!
Eric Holder says
But! But Tesla! <- is what our Tesla Fluffers on PatNet will say.
Heading them off at that pass: Fuck Tesla, this is an EV thread, not a Tesla-only thread.
And surprise! Surprise!
Eric Holder says
Tesla would take about the same
67
Ceffer
2024 Aug 27, 3:03pm
Ceffer
2024 Aug 27, 3:03pm
Oh, look, you can buy your own remote controlled personal incinerator, in case you can't make it to the long lines at state sponsored suicide pods. Only problem is, you're not the one with the remote control.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/08/dozens-rivian-evs-go-up-massive-ball-fire/
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/08/dozens-rivian-evs-go-up-massive-ball-fire/
68
ForcedTQ
2024 Aug 27, 9:15pm
WookieMan says
Yeah, resi power 2 legs would be 240V. So total wattage on that 50 amp dual pole would be 9.6 kW, if you maintain the 20% safety factor for the circuit. Have a 90 kWh EV battery at 50%? Charging is what 85% efficient? So 45 kWh / .85 = 52 kWh, and 5.5 hours on that 9.6 kW charger. If you let it start at 9pm it’ll be done at 2:30am, hopefully ….
Eric Holder says
Eh? Tesla would take about the same (or more, due to bigger battery) to fully charge on a 110V outlet. Not sure what's news here exactly. That woman being a stupid cunt who didn't do her homework before plunking down a chunk of cash?
Yeah, you need at least 220V on a 50amp breaker. The funny part is if you have natural gas, LED lights, efficient appliances, etc. you could power a 1,500 sq. ft. house on that. But that's what you'd need to power a car. Ain't cheap to run that at home either. Looking at $3-5k for electric install on top of overpaying for an EV. Talking a sedan too. CT or a Rivian would be even more. At least $20k in the hole.
How much gas is that? Oil change? All other maintenance is pretty similar. Maybe a starter or muffler. Still way cheaper for an ICE. Better range. Easier fill up.
Yeah, resi power 2 legs would be 240V. So total wattage on that 50 amp dual pole would be 9.6 kW, if you maintain the 20% safety factor for the circuit. Have a 90 kWh EV battery at 50%? Charging is what 85% efficient? So 45 kWh / .85 = 52 kWh, and 5.5 hours on that 9.6 kW charger. If you let it start at 9pm it’ll be done at 2:30am, hopefully ….
69
Stout
2024 Aug 28, 6:45am
https://www.rideapart.com/news/728316/samsung-ss-ev-battery-coming-soon/
How does a 20-year lifespan and a nine-minute charging time sound?
Plus, Samsung’s solid-state battery comes with all the perks associated with these types of batteries including lighter weight and improved safety thanks to a more stable thermal balance. But perhaps the best part is that Samsung’s solid-state battery tech has around 500 watt-hours per kilogram. That’s nearly double the energy density of the batteries found in most EVs today. And so in the real world, we could be looking at about 600 miles of range on a single charge.
How does a 20-year lifespan and a nine-minute charging time sound?
Plus, Samsung’s solid-state battery comes with all the perks associated with these types of batteries including lighter weight and improved safety thanks to a more stable thermal balance. But perhaps the best part is that Samsung’s solid-state battery tech has around 500 watt-hours per kilogram. That’s nearly double the energy density of the batteries found in most EVs today. And so in the real world, we could be looking at about 600 miles of range on a single charge.
70
zzyzzx
2024 Aug 28, 7:41am
zzyzzx
2024 Aug 28, 7:41am
Stout says
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2398896-what-are-solid-state-batteries-and-why-do-we-need-them/
What are solid-state batteries and why do we need them?
Batteries containing solid electrolytes have many theoretical benefits, but a technique to manufacture them cheaply has been elusive
It has electrolytes
Samsung’s solid-state battery
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2398896-what-are-solid-state-batteries-and-why-do-we-need-them/
What are solid-state batteries and why do we need them?
Batteries containing solid electrolytes have many theoretical benefits, but a technique to manufacture them cheaply has been elusive
It has electrolytes
73
Ceffer
2024 Aug 30, 11:16pm
Ceffer
2024 Aug 30, 11:16pm
I wound up behind one the Toyota hydrogen cell cars coming into my hood in Santa Cruz. I didn't recognize the nameplate, so I looked it up. They are still in the stage of being 'wealth show off and conversation piece' cars, I presume, before improving and becoming a bit more mainstream.
74
Ceffer
2024 Sep 5, 8:01pm
Ceffer
2024 Sep 5, 8:01pm
Regular computerized cars can be kill boxes, too, but I guess electric cars are state of the art. I had a strange experience tonite. I was idling in the driveway waiting for my wife before we were going to Santa Cruz. The retired judge next door and his new squeeze drove by behind our car and when they were right behind me, the electronics of my car shut down for a moment until they drove by to their house, then they came back on. I have to figure out what kind of jamming is going on there.
75
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 5, 10:53pm
RWSGFY
2024 Sep 5, 10:53pm
Ceffer says
No they are not: you can get a 2 yo one for $15K with a $15K fuel card on the hood. Hardly a "wealth show off", LOL.
I wound up behind one the Toyota hydrogen cell cars coming into my hood in Santa Cruz. I didn't recognize the nameplate, so I looked it up. They are still in the stage of being 'wealth show off and conversation piece' cars, I presume, before improving and becoming a bit more mainstream.
No they are not: you can get a 2 yo one for $15K with a $15K fuel card on the hood. Hardly a "wealth show off", LOL.
77
Blue
2024 Sep 5, 11:35pm
I know someone in South Bay who got Mirai. He is very happy with the Car for the last about 2 years. The drawback is, he can’t drive away from Bayarea and slight anxiety about running out of hydrogen.
Once, elsewhere I owned a car that runs with both LPG and regular gas. With simple flip switch, fuel source can be changed. Perhaps, those models could make sense financially in US as well.
Once, elsewhere I owned a car that runs with both LPG and regular gas. With simple flip switch, fuel source can be changed. Perhaps, those models could make sense financially in US as well.
78
WookieMan
2024 Sep 6, 7:25am
WookieMan
2024 Sep 6, 7:25am
Gas/oil is proven. I ain't switching. I know multiple EV owners, they're not popular here in IL. They all have had dead batteries at some point. I'm V8 or bust. I tow weekly. Carpool and pick up or drop off up to 6 kids. No EV meets those specs. No range anxiety.
They're zippy cars. If your dick is that small then own it. I'd say the same of Corvette owners. A to B, function and reliability. ICE has all. Even if it wasn't overpriced like they are, I ain't touching them over the utility factor.
They're zippy cars. If your dick is that small then own it. I'd say the same of Corvette owners. A to B, function and reliability. ICE has all. Even if it wasn't overpriced like they are, I ain't touching them over the utility factor.
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Electricity for much of the US and world is powered through coal, its just a switch to another equal pollutant. The batteries and materials used in EVs are full of heavy metals, not to mention that when the batteries in an EV combust they fill the air with pollutants, burning heavy metals that fire departments cant extinguish. Lastly, theres not enough data on current EVs to determine their shelf life, given the materials and amount of electronics, i imagine the shelf life of an EV will be significantly shorter than that of an ICE vehicle.
Given all of that, you will still be subject to the bitching and moaning of bugmen and babies who have never changed their oil in their life. The sheer panic that these people attempt to spread and their ever changing timeline of ecological destruction is obnoxious. These arent folks who attempt to clean up India or China(our leading polluters) but they want to concentrate on stripping you of your ability to choose.
The government is only too happy to comply too. The more that bloodsucking government can entangle themselves in transportation, the more control they have over you and your movement. The government gives companies like Tesla "Credits" that they can sell to ICE manufacturers who dont develop EVs, or dont develop them to the point that the government wants. This allows failing EV companies, like Tesla, to stay afloat even though they cant run a business efficiently. Honestly this type of behavior is more akin to a villain from an Ayn Rand novel, both with the governments overreach and with the behavior of many EV owners in general.