patrick.net

OccasionalCortex says

indc says

Ok I got new definition of lying now.

Except that is part of the old definition of lying. But I can see how someone who just trolls thinks he can re-invent the dictionary.

indc says

Another myth spread by british. Caste is not a term from india. British try to impose it on India. There were different group of people divided according to their profession. No one considered one superior to other which was what castism means. British decided who were upper caste and who were lower caste. And people had to accept their terminology because that was the only way they could secure jobs. And stupid indian governments try to follow the same even after independence.

wow! So much bullshit!

Brits used it, sure. But it was already in place long before they got there.

Just like Indians d...

Ok I take back my smear, you dont have shit for brains...

You may think I am bulshitting about Caste. But in india there are 4 castes or varna in Indian context. And everyone thought they were superior.
Brahim because they were keeper of Knowledge,
Kshatriya because they were keeper of Political power,
Vaishayas because they were keeper of money and trade.
Shudras because they were keeper of physical labor.

OccasionalCortex says

indc says

You may think I am bulshitting about Caste.

You are bullshitting that they were a construct of the Brits.

But once caught, you tried to avoid that. Just like you totally avoided the uncivilized open defecation issue.

SInce you are saying that I am bullshitting... let me explain the way you will understand maybe.
If you see saw harry potter there are four houses:
Gryffindor
Hufflepuff
Ravenclaw
Slytherin
They were having a ball of a time. They consider others i.e. muggles(untouchables).

Then dementors (british) I am trying to be funny here, come in and say. Hey there teams I dont want you to be merry I will fix you guys, because how can 4 teams which are different be friendly to each other, we suggest this:
Gryffidor is the best
Hufflepuff is the next best
Ravenclaw is the third best
Slytherin is the last
muggles are the worst.

But the 3 houses complained asking why gryffindor is the best. And to this day Dementors say we gave culture to you by stratifying you.

I never deny open defacation is a problem. But you cannot provide proper toilets to everyone, and the corrupt governments never do it.
The present prime minister is much better he helped build 40million toilets. It will take sometime and push from government to fix the problem. Then people like Reality come in and say you hindu nationalist party war mongerer why dont you have a status quo of a slave as before.

indc says

Only if you tell it its history. If someone else tells it, its a story?
That his-story I was explaining to Rin because he says India was always conquered by outsider. And I wanted to point out the lies in that narrative.
You talk about low IQ and point out that EIC formed in 1600 and immediately started occupying the world...
British became a political power in 1757 when they defeated the bengal kings.

The stories you were telling were simply fantastic and not believable, not surprising considering that you are more into "epic" (i.e. fantasy stories) instead of real history. When the British EIC arrived in India (i.e. when British arrived in India), the sub-continent was fragmented into numerous independent states. In 1760, the subcontinent still had several independent states . . . entirely in contradiction to your claim that the sub-continent was a united people before the British arrived or took power.

If osama was dead in 2002, why were 6trillion $ of tax-payer money mine and your spent hunting him. And only before obama was done with his presidency he was killed miraculously.

What are you talking about? The money was spent on building military bases all over the world in anticipation of future wars against possibly Russia, China and/or India . . . along with the acquisition of equipment and training of personnel. It's the cost of maintaining a Thalassocracy (and breaking up or preventing the rise of big land-based monopolies). Obama wheeled out Osama for his re-election; too bad the body didn't preserve well in deep freeze for over a decade, so some body had to be dumped at sea instead of being offered up for public display.

indc says

I never deny open defacation is a problem. But you cannot provide proper toilets to everyone, and the corrupt governments never do it.
The present prime minister is much better he helped build 40million toilets. It will take sometime and push from government to fix the problem. Then people like Reality come in and say you hindu nationalist party war mongerer why dont you have a status quo of a slave as before.

After the British left the sub-continent, the Hindustanis and the Pakistanis have turned the sub-continent into sh*t under the banners of socialism and nationalism. When Hindustan finally started economic reforms in the 1990's, it's a replay of Da Gama and British EIC arriving at the seaports, and the native Hindustanis flocking to trade with the foreign sea-borne merchants, breaking free from the continental land-based monopolists (aka the Hindustani government bureaucrats this time, just like the various Muslim and Hindu princely rulers the last time). What the BJP and Modi have been doing is rather similar to what Hitler did a century ago: even as German people moved from the east side of Germany to the west side in pursuit of commercial opportunities (even Hitler's own parents and grandparents moving from the east side Austro-Hungarian Empire to Linz located on the west side of Austro-Hungarian Empire), his advocacy of Lebensraum / "living space" in the east served as a political platform for catching the idiot votes. What Hindustani today would want to move to Kashmir? instead of the coastal cities to get higher paying jobs? Yet, the nationalistic Lebensraum political ploy gets the idiot votes in the streets. The idiots in the streets just want to vote themselves into being slaves of the land-based monopolists (aka, the government of Hindustan), even as their daily economic choice shifts towards trade on the coast.

As for building toilets, how does wasting money running a police state and occupying Kashmir help build toilets in Hindustan? How many Hindustanis want to use toilets in Kashmir and get their asses shot up in the crossfire between "freedom-fighters"/"terrorists" vs. "security"/"enslavers"/"occupiers"?

Reality says

indc says

I never deny open defacation is a problem. But you cannot provide proper toilets to everyone, and the corrupt governments never do it.
The present prime minister is much better he helped build 40million toilets. It will take sometime and push from government to fix the problem. Then people like Reality come in and say you hindu nationalist party war mongerer why dont you have a status quo of a slave as before.

After the British left the sub-continent, the Hindustanis and the Pakistanis have turned the sub-continent into sh*t under the banners of socialism and nationalism. When Hindustan finally started economic reforms in the 1990's, it's a replay of Da Gama and British EIC arriving at the seaports, and the native Hindustanis flocking to trade with the foreign sea-borne merchants, breaking free from the continental land-based monopolists (aka the Hindustani government bureaucrats t...

All your comments are lies or half truths but I am bored with replying to each one of them. So here is a video if you bother to see about your kashmir comments.
www.youtube.com/embed/_aoYNQrOOu0

To all you guys yapping about single india.

Here is its map durig 2 different but important kingdoms.



And here is a map of europe even in 1000AD.




And even roman senators were complaining about trade deficit with India and they were talking about southern ports of India.

indc says

All your comments are lies or half truths but I am bored with replying to each one of them. So here is a video

I'm not going to contribute to view count of videos that you send when you are too lazy to present your arguments.

indc says

Here is its map durig 2 different but important kingdoms.

260BC and 400AD maps? What the heck do they have anything to do with the reality on the ground circa 1600-1900AD? For all we know, Mongols and their Timurid successor state armies could have killed off entire populations on that piece of land around 1200-1500AD. In case it's not obvious on that 1000AD map, the turks were still thousands of miles away from Asia-Minor Peninsular (modern Turkey) . . . so those ancient maps don't prove anything: different time, different people, different culture.

A little comment on those map masturbation exercise: education and especially map fantasy can be one of the most disturbing destroyers of previously prosperous civilizations . . . because maps give the false impression that the ruler "owns" every human being on that piece of land when in reality every single human being is capable of making his/her own calculations. Greek city states had prosperous commerce, then Plato's Academy eventually led to Aristotle's student Alexander, who "united" all of ancient Greece and put an end to the prosperity of Greek city states (refocusing societal effort to mindless imperial warfare). Other civilizations like those of the Mesopotamia, Nile Valley, Persia and Far East had similar experience of education and cartography turning city states' prosperity into endless imperial warfare and totalitarianism. What the supposedly "educated"/brainwashed men show in their fervent map-worship is in reality their own slavishness in imperial bureaucracy. The implied message in a political map ("coloring the map") is actually state-slavery similar to Sparta's Helot system.

Reality says

indc says

All your comments are lies or half truths but I am bored with replying to each one of them. So here is a video

I'm not going to contribute to view count of videos that you send when you are too lazy to present your arguments.

indc says

Here is its map durig 2 different but important kingdoms.

260BC and 400AD maps? What the heck do they have anything to do with the reality on the ground circa 1600-1900AD? For all we know, Mongols and their Timurid successor state armies could have killed off entire populations on that piece of land around 1200-1500AD. In case it's not obvious on that 1000AD map, the turks were still thousands of miles away from Asia-Minor Peninsular (modern Turkey) . . . so those ancient maps don't prove anything: different time, different people, different culture.

Ok lets make a deal you watch the video and make a comment on what you think of it. I promise I will reply to everyone of your comments?

I too dont care about maps but how do you explain that to people who dont even know abcs of other civilization. We need to debunk their narratives through their own lenses.

Indian "culture" spread all the way from west asia to southeast-asia and far-east asia. And there is no record of anyone forcing it on them. But people like Rin say India is always a bitch. People of sword only understand the meaning of sword. And think whole world will respect and listen to only it.

indc says

Rin say India is always a bitch

For a person who's only contributed a tidbit here & there, I'm being rather focused upon, as if I'm the 80%.

BTW, I'd told my Parsi friend to listen to the above, which he did. Here's the thing, his grandparents were Zoroastrians and thus, don't have anything vested in the so-called Islamic Golden Age, which he and others believe, never existed. Islamic scholasticism was the theft of Persia and Byzantine.

Plus, the story of Alexander is kinda lame in the sense that Alexander's armies which went into today's Pakistan/India area were from middle Persia and not Greece/Macedonia, at that point in time. So sure, it was the last expedition of a person who'd spent much of his resources, defeating Darius. And like anyone who'd overextended himself, he lost everything on his way to Babylon, through the southern Iranian deserts but so what? ... many Persians (in the know) don't care for Alexander because unlike the Muslims, he'd left Zoroastrianism in tact for future generations. He was let's just say, a foreign 'Shogun', nestled between two Persian dynasties.

The idea is that in ancient times, the most influential Empire of the near east was Persia. Zoroastrianism was in the core empire and then, Buddhism & Shamanistic ideas in the east, bordering today's India, China, and Mongolia. So sure, the actual Gautama lived in the region between India & Nepal, however, even archeology shows that the Pali Canon was not the only source. There was another found in Gandhara
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandh%C4%81ran_Buddhist_texts ) which puts the existence of Buddhism right on the border regions of the Persian Empire, all the way back in ancient times.

And even if one says that India had much of 'Afghanistan', did it also have pre-Soviet/pre-Russian Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, etc, where there have been discoveries of Zoroastrian fire temples and Buddhist shrines by archeologists over time? Last I'd checked, ok it was a 100 years ago, Bukhara.S.S.R was a Soviet Republic before Stalin broke it up to prevent any group in Central Asia from forming nationalistic ideas from being descendants of some older Persian Empire.

Rin says

indc says

Rin say India is always a bitch

For a person who's only contributed a tidbit here & there, I'm being rather focused upon, as if I'm the 80%.

BTW, I'd told my Parsi friend to listen to the above, which he did. Here's the thing, his grandparents were Zoroastrians and thus, don't have anything vested in the so-called Islamic Golden Age, which he and others believe, never existed. Islamic scholasticism was the theft of Persia and Byzantine.

Plus, the story of Alexander is kinda lame in the sense that Alexander's armies which went into today's Pakistan/India area were from middle Persia and not Greece/Macedonia, at that point in time. So sure, it was the last expedition of a person who'd spent much of his resources, defeating Darius. And like anyone who'd overextended himself, he lost everything on his way to Babylon, through the southern Iranian deserts but so what? ... ma...

I didnt want to pick on you because you are a level headed guy who doesn't want to be stuck in a rat race of propagating your genes. But here come the truth bombs;
Rin says: India was always a bitch to white hordes from its north-west. Even Alexander the great came and conquered India.
When given counter argument: Oh Alexander is a spent force using only mercenaries from persia so obviously he lost.

I dont care about history of the world until you bring it to my shore. I care even less about islam. Just want it to be eliminated or modernised.

Do you even know history of zoroastrianism? Zoroaster was follower of a religion similar to hinduism. Then he created his own religion.
https://www.history.com/topics/religion/zoroastrianism

You think the fire temple idea came out of the blue to him. No he copied what he already has see mostly. Because FIre is an important element of Hinduism.
So yes all those places you listed are influenced by Hinduism. You think it is a coincidence that their name ends with -stan? its a sanskrit word for "place" Which could be root for "stand"

When they were kicked out by muslim hordes where did they go to India. And what did they say We are your sister religion and we will melt into your "culture" please accept us.

When was buddha born before 400bce. Was he a hindu when he was born yes. Did he quote vedas yes. So he created his ideas from hinduism?
Was buddhism at the border with persia yes because it was propagated by the mauryan kings. It was in china too and all over India.

And who are you calling shamanistic. Is that what you are taught? No wonder you dont want to believe hinduism is older than buddhism.
It had all codified laws even before anything was happening in europe. And why cant europe and norther Asia doesn't have any culture. Because they were under a huge ice cap until 12000 years ago and mostly had neanderthals living there.

And I wanted you to listen to the his-story lesson because what they were talking about happened atleast 5000yrs ago. Much before zoraster in persia.

indc says

Ok lets make a deal you watch the video and make a comment on what you think of it. I promise I will reply to everyone of your comments?

No deal. As I already explained in my previous post, I'm not interested in adding to the view count of a youtube video that you bring. If you have a counter-point to what I wrote, make the point here in your own words.

I too dont care about maps but how do you explain that to people who dont even know abcs of other civilization. We need to debunk their narratives through their own lenses.

You are the one who brought 260BC map and 400AD map in an attempt to prove India was a united country in 1600AD and 1760AD. Either you are utterly clueless or you are a nationalistic propagandist accustomed to lying.

Indian "culture" spread all the way from west asia to southeast-asia and far-east asia. And there is no record of anyone forcing it on them.

Many cultures spread across a wide area and inter-space with other cultures. The Vendic culture very much came from outside of modern day Hindustan and was imposed on the natives by force.

But people like Rin say India is always a bitch. People of sword only understand the meaning of sword. And think whole world will respect and listen to only it.

Governments throughout history were almost always imposed by "the sword" . . . that is not to say people fighting each other to have their turn at manipulating the government machinery necessarily lead a happier life than those who try to stay away from tyrannic governments. Large land-based political monopolies tend to become corrupt and inefficient very quickly (within a handful of generations), therefore frequently had to be replaced by a more efficient "new bureaucracy" (i.e. dumping the old existing bureaucrats / monopolists), especially given the general antipathy of the ruled harbor towards their own rulers after a few decades of monopolistic exploitation; that's why big continental countries tend to have frequent invasions, conquests by foreigners, internal revolutions and fragmentation/unification cycles.

Ok, so here it is ... Zoroaster, let's say the father of the Persian culture, if not nation, was a 'northeast' Vedic guy before ancient era nation-states were delineated.

I'm guessing that the above statement is your counter thrust to the Parsi guy's theory.

If so, it still doesn't change what happened in the centuries ahead ... the kings leading to Cyrus (the Great) built an Imperial state from today's Pakistan, to Kazakhstan, west out to Ukraine & Greece, and southwest out to Sudan/Ethiopia. Can you name an Empire larger than that, which survived for centuries (albeit w/ Roman rivalry) up until Islam?

So was Cyrus's Supersized Empire, an extension of India's Religious 'Imperial Largess' to the rest of the known ancient world?

And yes, the argument that Alexander the Great only defeated Darius's dynasty is really, the only true damage which that remarkable ancient Empire sustained prior to Abu Bakr's barbarian hordes. Alexander's generals had to retain the old Persian system, starting a new dynasty, after both kings were deads. This also happened to China, between family lines, which is why China was one nation between 220 BC and 1900 AD, and I suppose since foreign stakeholders were only on the coastline, it stayed one nation till today. In Persia's case, it was between Cyrus (~550 BC) and Yazdegrid III (~650 AD). There was no Persian Empire afterwards.

And as for India, didn't Alexander defeat Porus in conflict? Sure, Alexander left shortly afterwards, since his men were completely exhausted and then, he proceeded to lose his entire army in the southern Iranian deserts but how's that important?

Let me be more succinct in my comparison ... elements of Hatha Yoga are practiced in many nations worldwide today. And yes, that even includes Joseph Pilate's workout as his original source material was Hatha Yoga, along with some western physical culture.

With that said, most of these practitioners are not considered Hindus (and/or overseas Indians), even though some elements deriving from Hinduism are in their daily lives.

And thus, one can't say that the nationalistic/spiritual torchbearers of Zoroaster, a.k.a Cyrus the Great and all the emperors (before the Caliphate) which succeeded him, are of Indian origin due to Zo's education of Vedic scrolls.

And yes, in the west, Pilates is considered one of the best conditioning programs out there. So I guess it's time to hand Joe an Indian passport for all of his efforts in getting yoga into the hands of countless nations. FYI, I use a lot of Pilates and yes, it's great for toning, balance, and building core strength.