patrick.net

clambo says

The electricity they use comes from natural gas in the first place.

It comes from out of state coal plants.

Booger, of course some comes from out of state; but the natural gas plant in Moss Landing CA is likely supplying some juice to Berkeley.

Worst case marginal electric emissions in California are 1 lb CO2/kWh. The normal CO2 emission profile is less than half of this (you can see it in real time on the CA ISO website). So worst case electric grid CO2 emissions translates into:
29.3 lbs CO2/therm
Natural gas emissions per EIA is:
11.7 lbs CO2/therm
From those numbers, it's clear that natural gas heating would beat electric resistance heaters; however, any heat pump with an efficiency greater than 250% will have a lower CO2 emissions profile than a natural gas furnace.
Per https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2012/06/heat-pumps-work-miracles/
Let’s say your electricity comes from natural gas turbines, converted to electricity at 40% efficiency (via a heat engine). Coupled with a heat pump achieving a COP of 3.5, each unit of energy injected at the natural gas plant yields 0.4×3.5 units of thermal energy in the home, for a net gain of 40% over just burning the gas directly in the home.

people don't cook or heat bath water using heat pumps

clambo says

people don't cook or heat bath water using heat pumps

Welcome to the future; heat the food on your cooktop, not your entire kitchen.
A major difference between a gas and induction stovetop is that induction is significantly more efficient than gas – food being cooked with induction will receive 90% of the heat generated, as opposed to only 40-55% for gas. This keeps your kitchen much cooler and more comfortable while you prepare meals. Induction cooking also decreases risk of burns and accidental fires, as there is no open flame and the cookware itself is the only heat source.

clambo says

people don't ... heat bath water using heat pumps

Sanden sells the most efficient model in the US. It uses a split system so the heat pump can be located outside. Additionally there are several "all in one" heat pump water heaters available at home depot.

https://californiaglobe.com/fr/wither-gas-bans/

Wither Gas Bans?
The banning of gas and gas appliances has touched a nerve in the public

By Thomas Buckley, March 11, 2024 12:04 pm

In January, a trio of judges from the Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals struck down the city of Berkeley’s natural gas hook-up ban.

Now, Berkeley has a ticking clock running on deciding if they will appeal the decision to the United States Supreme Court, a clock runs out in less than a month.

And what Berkeley decides will impact more than 70 other cities in the state that followed their lead in banning gas hook-ups to new construction as they are waiting to see what to do about their own ordinances.

The Berkeley ordinance did not specifically ban gas appliances but barred any gas infrastructure to be built as part of new construction. In other words, “sure, you can have a gas stove – don’t know what you going to plug it into to make it work but you can own one.”

This circuitous path to banning gas appliances seems to have been intentional on the part of Berkeley and other cities as a way to get around something they cannot do, namely specifically ban gas appliances. Other cities are even claiming that their ordinances are not a ban on gas hookups, just a mandate that all new construction be all-electric – potato, potahto.

The Ninth Circuit – in ruling on the suit against Berkeley brought by the California Restaurant Association – panel saw through the Berkeley dodge, saying:

“Instead of directly banning those appliances in new buildings, Berkeley took a more circuitous route to the same result and enacted a building code that prohibits natural gas piping into those buildings, rendering the gas appliances useless.

The panel held that, by its plain text and structure, the Act’s preemption provision encompasses building codes that regulate natural gas use by covered products. By preventing such appliances from using natural gas, the Berkeley building code did exactly that. The panel reversed and remanded for further proceedings.” ...

More Constitutional skeet shooting. The Soros Fecal Impaction set don't know the Constitution from a hole in the ground, and are somehow bedazzled and deluded by their Satanic money master that they have legislative powers that they don't. It's the useful idiot version of subversive lawfare.

I say LET Berkeley ban it. And other libtard cities. Why not? More for the rest of us!

What about barbecue restaurants which require gas ? How do they serve food that normally is cooked over a flame ? Aren't some Asian culinary dishes based on using a flame ?

I've found a way to use an air fryer oven to cook chicken legs and then add BBQ sauce at the last 15 minutes, and it tastes somewhat close to being cooked over a flame.

.

I think they could get away with not needed natural gas for heating there in Berkeley just like we don't need natural gas heating in the Florida panhandle. This was a little problematic when it got down to 25 degrees last January but the ceramic ground floor was still at least 60 degrees that night without me turning the heat pump on.

I lived as far north as Alexandria VA and my townhome community did not have natural gas. That is as far north as I would want to go without having natural gas for heating.

.

AD says

What about barbecue restaurants which require gas ?

What about them?

Berkeley wants to shut them down either deliberately or via its own stupidity, so what?

No different from other policy outcomes from defunding the police or raising the minimum wage or having a ridiculous 'recycling bin' enforced on residents.

No different at all.

UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

AD says

What about barbecue restaurants which require gas ?

What about them?

Berkeley wants to shut them down either deliberately or via its own stupidity, so what?

I'm just wondering as far as unintended consequence.

I'm thinking of a lot of white and Asian liberals who will feel inconvenienced at least when their favorite dishes cannot be served the same way or at all, and that is because the restaurants in Berkeley are not allowed to use gas for cooking.

.

Who wants to start a business that generates hydrogen gas from electricity to allow gas cooking? It's not hard to do.

It's not efficient. It will use 2x the electricity as it produces in heat, however it burns to just water and a small amount of nitrogen dioxide. It would produce hydrogen on demand.

richwicks says

Who wants to start a business that generates hydrogen gas from electricity to allow gas cooking? It's not hard to do.

It's not efficient. It will use 2x the electricity as it produces in heat, however it burns to just water and a small amount of nitrogen dioxide. It would produce hydrogen on demand.

This is the type of thing best powered by a wind or solar field. You can more easily store the hydrogen and then burn it to create electricity when there is no wind or sun, or cook with it. It's like the pumped storage hydro, except for a dry area.

zzyzzx says

richwicks says

Who wants to start a business that generates hydrogen gas from electricity to allow gas cooking? It's not hard to do.

It's not efficient. It will use 2x the electricity as it produces in heat, however it burns to just water and a small amount of nitrogen dioxide. It would produce hydrogen on demand.

This is the type of thing best powered by a wind or solar field. You can more easily store the hydrogen and then burn it to create electricity when there is no wind or sun, or cook with it. It's like the pumped storage hydro, except for a dry area.

The point isn't energy storage, it's to get around a stupid law.

Hydrogen energy storage is not a good way to store energy. At BEST and doing tricks like using Stirling engines to recapture lost energy in the from of heat, you can get to about 60% efficiency at converting water to hydrogen and oxygen. It's absolutely stupid for cars, because hydrogen for them is made from steam reformation, you may as well just burn LNG, which is compressed natural gas. Steam reformation uses energy, steam, natural gas, and hydrogen to make carbon dioxide and hydrogen under pressure. SUPPOSEDLY that CO2 is "sequestered", but I doubt it. I'd bet they turn it into dry ice, or just dump it into the atmosphere.

Hydrogen is hard to store as well, it very reactive and because it's such a tiny molecule it will pass through membranes. Helium does the same, that's why balloons filled with it deflate over time but hydrogen is an even smaller atom.

AD says

I'm just wondering as far as unintended consequence.

I'm thinking of a lot of white and Asian liberals who will feel inconvenienced at least when their favorite dishes cannot be served the same way or at all, and that is because the restaurants in Berkeley are not allowed to use gas for cooking.

So? They get what they vote for.

richwicks says

Who wants to start a business that generates hydrogen gas from electricity to allow gas cooking? It's not hard to do.

It's not efficient. It will use 2x the electricity as it produces in heat, however it burns to just water and a small amount of nitrogen dioxide. It would produce hydrogen on demand.

Seems the safest and most ecological is the Ed Begley Jr way by using the solar cooking method.

And then there is this below.
.



.

AD says

Seems the safest and most ecological is the Ed Begley Jr way by using the solar cooking method.

Had to look him up. Found this blurb in Wikipedia:

Begley's former home is 1,585 square feet (147.3 m2) in size, using solar power, wind power via a PacWind vertical-axis wind turbine, an air conditioning unit made by Greenway Design Group, LLC., and an electricity-generating bicycle used to toast bread.

That's bullshit. You want to see somebody toast bread with a bicycle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4O5voOCqAQ

That man is a monster. He's bike sprinter for track. Three's no way that Begley is running a toaster on a bike, unless he's using a battery and is peddling for 20 minutes. At my peak, I could maybe produce 400 watts for a short period of time. I did that at a science museum. Every light was 100 watts. The max you could light was 6.

Booger says

clambo says

The electricity they use comes from natural gas in the first place.

It comes from out of state coal plants.

.mostly has I believe and some nuclear. Coal is not that common

I imagine marijuana farts were an exception to this gas rule?

Hydrogen? That shit is for rockets only. Even then, Musk is going with Methalox for the new Starship. Easier handling.
Hydrogen has a liquid temp of ~ -259C, less than twenty degrees above absolute zero. It has lowest energy density of all gases, so it takes larger, heavier tanks to hold and transport it. Also causes embrittlement in metals which can lead to catastrophic failures. The only good thing part is the byproduct of burning is water.