patrick.net

The only one who botched the legal citizen's arrest is Arbery.

He was to stay there until the police arrived.

Instead of standing or running away, he actively engaged the citizens by charging them while they were holding firearms.

Tenpoundbass says

The duo will be tried on being racists, and the evidence will show they weren't racist.

No they will be tried for murder. And just like in this thread, Trump cultists will be defending that those idiots had good reason to make a citizens arrest with guns drawn.

The fact that Trump cultists are arguing in that direction, and that the guy was black is strictly a coincidence.

elliemae says

If he were to stop and look at a house, it's doubtful the situation would end in his murder by two non-related people who have no claim to the property and are acting on their own hysteria.

Exactly because the problem is not so much the trespassing on a vacant construction site, problem is the departed tried to grab another man’s gun. That is illegal in Georgia. In fact it is illegal to take another person’s gun in Commifornia too isn’t it?

elliemae says

he was committing no crime before or during the altercation that caused his death.

This is not true. He tried to take another person’s firearm. That is illegal, and I might add, stupid. The departed won his award. It is the Darwin Award.

That's right. He could have fled or waited for the police.

The video indisputably shows Arbery, who begins standing in the middle of the road at least a few dozen feet away from the truck and younger McMichaels, charging McMichael and throwing several hooks at his face, while McMichaels was holding a shotgun.

It's not a case of McMichaels walking up to Arbery and pointing a firearm directly at him.

Also, no lib has explained why good boy Arbery has a prior gun conviction.

That is 110% the fault of Arbery and nobody else.

Jesus Christ. I'm kind of astonished how many people think it's just okay to enter someone's property regardless of condition. I don't own a gun yet, but this thread has made it very apparent that I need to if this many people think this way. You learn something new every day.

I'd call the cops and confront the person 10 out of 10 times if I saw them going into my neighbors house. Regardless of the intent of the person going in or my relationship with the neighbors. One of my own neighbors I've never met chewed out my friends for fucking with our xmas decorations in the lawn as a prank this past winter. My friends were pissed, I told them I'm happy I have neighbors like that.

The guns were over the top. I don't think anyone posting here is disputing that. Just because you don't know the neighbor or because the owner is okay with it, still doesn't make trespassing on another's property okay. As I said in a previous comment, if they didn't call the cops at all, they're going to have issues. The fact remains none of this would have ever happened if Ahmaud didn't enter a property that wasn't his, for no reason. Everyone can say they do it all the time, that doesn't make it right.

WookieMan says

alpo says

I am 40+ year old and I have interest in house construction, whenever there is construction going on in my neighborhood, I stop by and look around multiple times, I talk to construction workers, and sometimes go and in one particular property that was under construction for many months, I often used to stop by and look around at the quality of work.

If there are workers there I've already mentioned no biggie. They can tell you to leave or let you walk around. I can promise you, not one intelligent builder would want someone walking around their site unaccompanied. Hence why they put cameras and alarms on site. If they make a decision if they get an alert via camera and choose to not do anything, that's their choice. You have a choice to enter another persons property, but that doesn't take away that it's still illegal to do so.

There's always a potential negative out come when...

Wookie,

You fall just a bit short on getting it right.

Everything they did was legal = they DID NOT go over the top in their actions.

elliemae says

1. The guy stopped and walked through a house under construction. The owner of the home has no problem with his presence.
2. The "men" who followed him, then confronted him, shot and killed him.

Seems like many of you live in the Bay Area, where houses are crammed together and construction sites are pillaged. I'm from the rural west, where a house under construction can be walked through with no problem. It's only an illegal act if the "injured party" claims it to be one. HE DID NOT.

My son has had a couple of run-ins with the law - starting with a pocket-rocket that broke a window when he and his friends were nine. He's a white man, employed, with a college degree. He jogs. If he were to stop and look at a house, it's doubtful the situation would end in his murder by two non-related people who have no claim to the property and are acting on their own hysteria. Most certainly, they wouldn't bring up the pocket-rocket incident, and probably not the ticket for ...

You are a scary person because your belief is that the law doesn't matter...only your feelings about the outcome matter. I have a suggestion...

DO NOT BREAK THE LAW

elliemae says

he was committing no crime before or during the altercation that caused his death.

You're kidding, right? Attacking someone and trying to steal from them (the gun) isn't a crime?

WineHorror1 says

Everything they did was legal = they DID NOT go over the top in their actions.

I don't think you're wrong, I'm just more or less talking about how I would have reacted in the situation. I would have just confronted him without a gun, even if open carry was legal in IL. My whole take is the chain reaction leading to Ahmaud's death would have never happened if he just didn't enter someone else's home. They should have just called the cops and confronted him is all I'm getting at.

The guns were legal and their actions appear to be legal regardless of how I would have handled it. Ahmaud made multiple poor decision that day and it cost him his life. I think the two guys had poor judgement in how they handled the situation, but legally they'll very likely get off unless new information comes out. That's really all that matters instead of people's feelings or some here admitting they like to trespass.

WineHorror1 says

So, people aren't able to protect their own neighborhood?

I fairly regularly confront people who are snooping around neighbor's houses, and my neighbors do the same for our house if we are away. A year ago on our block this resulted in a few sons of Obama running away, cops were called, sons were traced down with police chopper and arrested for burglary (not me who called cops/confronted them). Note that we are in TX with probably one of the most liberal gun laws in US of A, we have home burglars shot every week in our city with population cheering and saying that shooter should get a medal, or, if burglar is not dead, that shooter needs to improve his marksmanship skills.

I have TX CC permit, but I will not go around drawing guns on random people, even if they trespass. Furthermore, I will confront people only for immediate neighbors, where I more or less know who should be around here. There is a big difference in shooting someone who assaults you (like in Zimmerman case), and this case where they drew guns on a guy without an immediate danger to their lives. Just call the damned cops and let them deal with it - they get paid for it, and if they do not come on time, vote in different sheriff. If you use (or even pull) your gun, be damned sure that this is not even close to gray area legally.

WookieMan says

Jesus Christ. I'm kind of astonished how many people think it's just okay to enter someone's property regardless of condition.

I don't think it's acceptable at all, and I'm not in anyway advocating for the deceased.
Nor do I think he was unjustly indiscriminately shot down out of malice and spite.
But if we're going to have gun rights, then people need to answer and be accountable when they use them.
Your gun isn't a tool to make people submit to your will under any circumstance.

Not to bring back to a location you left, to settle a disagreement.
Not to chase someone down, you think is getting away with a crime.
And Shotguns should never be justified for holding criminals at bay. They are best used for making the intruder breaking in your home, see the pearly gates of Hades.
Perhaps the guy would still be alive had they brandished a handgun instead.
Shotguns are not for close quarter fighting. That's what sawed off shot guns were made for.

I think the optics of the Father and Son, wouldn't be as bad, had they confronted him with this.

Tenpoundbass says

But if we're going to have gun rights, then people need to answer and be accountable when they use them.
Your gun isn't a tool to make people submit to your will under any circumstance.

Not to bring back to a location you left, to settle a disagreement.
Not to chase someone down, you think is getting away with a crime.

+10000000000000000000
best summary I have seen here
I am all for guns (living in TX has really changed the way how I think about them), but you need to go an extra mile in being careful if you have them.

Tenpoundbass says

But if we're going to have gun rights, then people need to answer and be accountable when they use them.

100% agree. That's why I said it was a bit over the top. The issue at hand though was it illegal to brandish the weapons in the manner they did? From what I've seen no. Does that make their action ethical or right? No.

I think some here are conflating that I think the outcome was proper. I don't. I'm looking at it from purely a legal aspect. I don't care about the people in all honesty. The media is portraying this as something it is not. That's of bigger concern, especially with our current circumstances with CV-19. Manipulation is a scary thing and it needs to be defeated every time it shows it's ugly face.

WookieMan says

The media is portraying this as something it is not.

WookieMan says

The issue at hand though was it illegal to brandish the weapons in the manner they did? From what I've seen no. Does that make their action ethical or right? No.

I thought the two men who were arrested are accused of a crime? The media and BLM types are portraying this as a race crime. They are saying the men murdered the departed. They claim that justice means putting these men in prison. They claim the departed was innocent and the two men with guns are guilty. If the two men did something unethical then is this not evidence of guilt? That is the danger of taking the position that they should not have carried weapons to defend themselves. The very fact that an unarmed man attacked them despite clearly seeing they were armed is evidence that every citizen needs the right to bear arms to defend themselves. The armed men are alive, the unarmed man WHO ATTACKED another human being is dead.

I personally would NOT advise intervening by calling the police NOR by confronting the intruder, unless he/she is threatening you or physical harm to another person. Take photos, take video, and if you witness a crime bring the video to the police after the situation is over. But calling the police just brings increased risk of violence and poor outcomes to your own personal health and could cost you your life. Just ask Justine Damond’s fiancee.

PeopleUnited says

Take photos

And post them on patrick.net.

Get an anonymous email to register before posting the image, like from https://www.mailinator.com/ and post it from a library, say, so I won't even have your IP address if I get subpoenaed.

Well, no libraries are open at the moment, but you get the idea.

Arbery's arrest for stealing a TV from a Walmart

www.youtube.com/embed/cD0m1Ar7Kfg

He wuz a good boy, dindu nuttin'. Jus' the victim of Ray Cism by da Whites.

Yet another incident: Arbery gets nasty with police, tries to return to vehicle after being told his license is suspended and he cannot drive it away.

https://www.nbc12.com/2020/05/19/video-shows-georgia-officer-tried-stun-ahmaud-arbery/

Media Biased Headlines:

Nah man, I dindu nufin.

Just went out for som ice T n' skittlez ma!

A low IQ is a very dangerous thing to have.

WineHorror1 says

A low IQ is a very dangerous thing to have.

He was smart enough to wear a parka in summer to reduce the risk of being tased. Probably was not his first time being tased either.

PeopleUnited says

WineHorror1 says

A low IQ is a very dangerous thing to have.

He was smart enough to wear a parka in summer to reduce the risk of being tased. Probably was not his first time being tased either.

Your smart meter is just a bit weak. Check your batteries.

Not saying he wins a prize, other than the Darwin Award. But he did learn from his first tasing to wear the thick coat.

If there's a question whether or not the guy deserved to be shot down, based on his historical behavior alone. Then probably.
The fact is he was not gunned down by the law enforcement while he was in the commission of a crime.
He was gunned down after leaving a dwelling without taking anything. He was perused as as suspect prowler criminal and he resisted arrest. He went as far as to assault his assailants, as that's what they were at that point. They have no legal authority until the police come and ascertain that it was a lawful citizens arrest. People forget unlawful arrest and holding people against their will is a serious crime. You better not commit a bigger crime while you are holding your "Suspect" before the police get there.

These guys Botched a Citizens arrest, and are now at the mercy of 12 jurors. I hope the non partisan ones are picked.

I'm a Trump supporter, but I don't want to live in a world where Bubba, his son and the guy across the street can gun down someone over a property dispute with no questions asked.
This isn't a race issue nor is it a gun issue, it's a demanding accountability for incompetent gun owners. They can't pop off a cap every time they want to make a point with impunity.

America is going to lose our right to bear arms, if the Pro 2@ don't learn the difference in defending home, liberty and family, and chasing someone down and shooting them because you think he took the neighbors shit from a construction site.

Tenpoundbass says

chasing someone down and shooting them

Maybe.

When I saw the video it looked different to me. Chasing him (armed) to keep track of him until the 911 finally showed up? All I saw was him chasing THEM and grabbing a shotgun and nearly putting it in his own damn mouth.

Talk about an idiot: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/moron-idiot-imbecile-offensive-history

Tenpoundbass says

These guys Botched a Citizens arrest, and are now at the mercy of 12 jurors.

The guy filming is charged with murder now so I don't particularly feel the judgmentals have a full set of mentals.

Tenpoundbass says

America is going to lose our right to bear arms, if the Pro 2@ don't learn the difference

between media hype and a constitutionally protected God given right. And if we allow idiots to punish the majority for the mistakes of the few. That logic would mean cops should not have guns because sometimes they make mistakes. Don’t be an enemy of the 2nd amendment by promoting the falsehoods.

Driving cars is more dangerous than 2nd Amendment arms. If these guys wanted to kill a man they could have easily run him down. It seems they wanted him to live, and preferred a nonviolent confrontation. But when he attacked an armed man, the departed proved he was a violent offender and he got what he deserved.

If you pull a gun and someone gets killed, it's man slaughter at the least unless it happened on your property in your home, where the aggressor was coming after you.
They chased him down in a truck, I don't have a problem with guns or people who own them, and damn sure don't have a problem with defending yourself.

But if you going to play bad ass, and things gets out of hand, and someone gets killed blocks down the road from your humble abode.

You've crossed the line and are now in man slaughter charge. I am pro gun, I'm not pro "Yee Haw! Got another'n Pa! Let's git him!"(Blam!)

I am Pro, "You dumb son of a bitch! You picked the wrong fucking house to break into!"(Blam!)

Tenpoundbass says

If you pull a gun and someone gets killed, it's man slaughter at the least unless it happened on your property in your home, where the aggressor was coming after you.
They chased him down in a truck, I don't have a problem with guns or people who own them, and damn sure don't have a problem with defending yourself.

But if you going to play bad ass, and things gets out of hand, and someone gets killed blocks down the road from your humble abode.

You've crossed the line and are now in man slaughter charge. I am pro gun, I'm not pro "Yee Haw! Got another'n Pa! Let's git him!"(Blam!)

I am Pro, "You dumb son of a bitch! You picked the wrong fucking house to break into!"(Blam!)

I hope the jury does not see it the same way as you.

Georgia law shows they did nothing wrong. If the dumbass dindu didn't run at them and punch them and grab their gun, he'd be alive. How is that not clear to you?

WineHorror1 says

Georgia law shows they did nothing wrong.

That's really all that matters. Feelings and what is legal/illegal in other states not named Georgia is a moot point. I don't like what they did, but if it didn't break a law, who cares? Oh wait, he was black.....

Tueller Drills are a firearm training exercise to see how close an enemy can be before he can run up and disarm you faster than you can draw and fire on him. Average is around 25 feet I understand.

When your starting conditions are being IN A TRUCK following the adversary who is on foot unarmed and you end up with him taking control of your gun, that is an EXTREME level of Tueller Drill and firearm control FAIL!

Automan Empire says

When your starting conditions are being IN A TRUCK following the adversary who is on foot unarmed and you end up with him taking control of your gun, that is an EXTREME level of Tueller Drill and firearm control FAIL!

It also shows they weren't redneck vigilantes out for a lynching.

WineHorror1 says

I hope the jury does not see it the same way as you.

Well if more thought like me, then the Democrats wouldn't be able to call for "Sensible Gun Laws"(really a gun grab).

If we weren't so quick to defend everyone that goes home to retrieve a gun to return to settle arguments.

If you have to get a gun and chase someone down, you're doing gun ownership wrong period.

The guy was not in the shape to feed Auhmud the but of his shot gun and take a few souvenir teeth with him. Then they had no business getting out of the truck.
Yes Auhmud brought it upon himself. And I'm sure if the case isn't politicized and if we don't let the Liberals make a Race issue out of it. I'm sure a jury will the whole episode for what it was.

He would be cleared of Murder, or Man Slaughter, it would be proved that in the end it was self defense. But at the least they would get two years for unlawful discharge of a firearm.

We've got to be smarter and beat the Liberals back by staying ahead of their bullshit, and race smearing politics.

If the 2A consensus is "Well the darkie got what he deserved, look at his past record, those good ole boys dindu nuffin!"

I say this every time one of these grey area shootings come up. And I'm always right, the 2A folks allows it to become all about race, and if they keep it up.

We're going to end up with Chuck and Nancy's "Sensible Gun Laws"(which really means no guns at all).

Tenpoundbass says

If the 2A consensus is "Well the darkie got what he deserved, look at his past record, those good ole boys dindu nuffin!"

Ok, let's play a game.

The white guys are black, Ahmad is black (still) and the location is Cabrini-Green. I'd bet a high percentage of people who are crying about this situation would have a different view of my comparison event.

You?

Me: I'd be praising the black guys trying to "law-and-order" Cabrini-Green.

Tenpoundbass says

If you have to get a gun and chase someone down, you're doing gun ownership wrong period.

Roosevelt enacted this same strategy and was later elected president. https://rtpr.com/9-amazing-facts-about-teddy-roosevelt/you-don’t-steal-boat-theodore-roosevelt

“1886, Roosevelt and two friends purchased a “clinker” boat to carry them across the frozen Missouri River. After coming back from a hunting expedition, they found the rope that was securing the boat had been cut and the boat itself was missing. This is probably when most people would notify the authorities…most people. However, Theodore didn’t take too kindly to the act of thievery, so he and his friends built a boat from scratch (in 3 days), tested its durability, and then set off to find the guilty culprits and retrieve their boat. After a few days of navigating the river, at times reaching 0 degrees Fahrenheit, they found the three thieves. What did they do? Well, Roosevelt and his buddies roughed-up and captured the men, and brought them back with them to be arrested. During the long trip back, apparently Roosevelt passed the time reading Dostoevsky’s Anna Karenina to his friends and captives. When they got back to dry land, Roosevelt arrested the three men himself because he was the Deputy Sheriff. The boys got off lucky since Roosevelt only arrested them, because the normal punishment back in those days was death by hanging.”

If the departed was not a violent offender who attacked an armed man willing to defend himseld, he would still be alive and probably would even be a free man.

PeopleUnited says

If the departed was not a violent offender who attacked an armed man willing to defend himseld, he would still be alive and probably would even be a free man.

He didn't end up botching the arrest and killing the suspect.

If you're not a bad ass, don't go playing Dog the Bounty Hunter, because you will probably lack the experience to keep control of the situation at all times.
The guy was thrown out of the Police force because he didn't master tactics and procedures. He should have acted like the thousands of other people who have chased suspicious characters like that in their car. Unarmed, and they stay in their car, while they talk to 911. Sure have a gun in the console if the guy pulls a gun out of his waist band, then it's on.

At least thee times in my life, I have been approached by people who was sure I was a culprit. One was Seminole Reservation cop, pulled me over and was convinced I was the guy that drove by earlier and flipped him the bird. And a couple other instances I wont go into. Of course I wasn't the guy and it was all resolved. But I was never confronted by guys chasing me down in a pick up truck, jumping out with a shot gun aimed at me. They always called the cops and then they and the cops came out. The cop always was able to verify I was not the person they were looking for, and everyone lived happily ever after.

WineHorror1 says

The white guys are black, Ahmad is black (still) and the location is Cabrini-Green. I'd bet a high percentage of people who are crying about this situation would have a different view of my comparison event.

This isn't a white and black thing, and I'm not calling for gun control, I'm not saying it was a malicious slaying, but they put themselves on the position to do what happens way too often. I think if people know, "Well wait a minute, if I go barging in there with my gun and it doesn't turn out like the cool Texas Walker Ranger idea I have in my head, and someone gets killed. I might go to jail for a couple years at the very least. "
These things would stop happening. And the Left would quit getting their damn racial fodder, Idiots like these three Fuck Sticks keep feeding the Goddamn commie propaganda machine, and I'm sick of it. It's an endless negative feedback loop, of Stupid, unlawful discharges of firearms, at the very least, and then Liberals saying all white people are white supremacist and they need to take all of our guns.

I don't want to play the stupid game, and tired of this Pro 2A and the Commie Resonate response.

Would it kill pro gun people to admit, people should go to jail when they fucked up?

You accidentally pull a trigger and some random person gets shot, used to be called manslaughter. Today 90% of the time with a good lawyer and $100,000 you'll beat it in court as an accident.
But if you randomly tossed a hammer up in the sky in a crowded street, and it struck and killed someone. It would be some degree of murder.
What makes lawful gun owners impervious to any consequences for their bad decisions when things don't go as plan and they kill someone?

The gun is there for your protection, and to keep the Commie Cannibal Anarchy at bay if that day comes. It's not a beer opener, back scratcher or something you retrieve to settle an argument.

Tenpoundbass says

He didn't end up botching the arrest and killing the suspect.

Because the suspects Roosevelt encountered had enough respect and/or sense to know when to wave the white flag. The departed lacked that sense/respect which is why he is departed. He chose to attack. He could have been reasonable and sat down while waiting for the police to arrive. He chose violence instead. He chose his own fate.

OK I got one more for you. If you pull a gun on someone for any reason, and it turns out you were wrong for holding the suspect with a gun, then you should be sued for and arrested. Now that's under the best circumstance nobody died. Now add someone does die.

Look we can't have a society where half the people think they can run around with their gun doing the police's job, on non Emergency situations.

I would rather see legislation on hard rules where the use of a weapon is lawful, and when it isn't.
I think if you chase someone down, In a non emergency situation, where no serious or violent crime was committed, and hold them at bay with a gun.
If you go retrieve a gun and return to a location, it's unlawful in my opinion, if there is no serious threat to warrant such action.
Sure chasing down someone that just murdered someone, assaulted or rapped is one thing. But chasing down suspicious black, brown, or white people and holding them at bay with a gun. Is a big fucking No No! Call the police and coordinate with them, don't go ahead on, and play Deputy Barney Fifh.
I defend you right to defend yourself, and your home with your gun, and your right to have that gun for that reason alone.

It ends, when you go looking for a fight. No matter how noble or right you think it may be. There's a reason people flunk out of the police academy. And time and time again, it's these people that end up doing this shit. Quit defending them, they are going to cost everyone our Gun Rights.