patrick.net

G36 says

No stocks, gold, silver, real estate?

Now those are real and don't depend on the next greatest fool to profit on them. Well maybe they do, but they are real and in the case of stocks represent real companies that produce real stuff (usually). Real estate, gold, and silver "stand alone" and have obvious uses; intrinsic value. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

Onvacation says

Why is crypto a currency if hardly anyone buys stuff with it?

Like I say you are totally ignorant on the subject you really should leave it alone, you don't know how bad the ignorance of your comments makes you look .... Fact

Cash says

place of jealousy

Over a flash drive and paper value? No.

Cash says

Onvacation says

Why is crypto a currency if hardly anyone buys stuff with it?

Like I say you are totally ignorant on the subject you really should leave it alone, you don't know how bad your ignorance of your comments makes you look .... Fact

"You're bitter because you don't understand the technology!"

Cash says

FuckCCP89 says

Not suffering from FOMO != being jealous.

Right, keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better about missing out.... Was it a FOMO when you could of bought at .10, 100, 1000 even 10000 you could of sold for a 50% gain today. I will FOMO all over that all day long lmao

Newbie123, why did you change your handle?

Cash says

Your comments on the subject reminds me of some others on this forum. Seemingly always coming from a place of jealousy of not jumping into the game?

Chasing luck can work. Have fun. Just know what you’re dealing with. On target to retire very well by 47 once the kids are out. Not gonna risk it playing with made up money and I don’t like trading. I’ll take my consistent tax deferred returns and dividends for the next decade and move down to the Caribbean. Start early instead of chasing get rich quick schemes. Always ends bad for 99%.

Was it a FOMO when you could of bought at .10, 100, 1000 even 10000 you could of sold for a 50% gain today. I will FOMO all over that all day long lmao

Crypto is valued in fiat and has no value outside of trading in the hope that some "greater fool" will pay more fiat for it in the future. If I am wrong and crypto investors are not counting on the price of bitcoin to increase in terms of fiat, what are you "investing" in?

If (when) the fiat money systems fail, gold, silver, and real estate will still have value. Bitcoin will not.

Cash says

Was it a FOMO when you could of bought at .10, 100, 1000 even 10000 you could of sold for a 50% gain today. I will FOMO all over that all day long lmao

And you'll disappear when it crashes again and will come back when (and if) it goes up.

Onvacation says

Crypto is valued in fiat and has no value outside of trading in the hope that some "greater fool" will pay more fiat for it in the future. If I am wrong and crypto investors are not counting on the price of bitcoin to increase in terms of fiat, what are you "investing" in?

If (when) the fiat money systems fail, gold, silver, and real estate will still have value. Bitcoin will not.

Why don't you deniers ever stay in context?

Cash says

Onvacation says

Crypto is valued in fiat and has no value outside of trading in the hope that some "greater fool" will pay more fiat for it in the future. If I am wrong and crypto investors are not counting on the price of bitcoin to increase in terms of fiat, what are you "investing" in?

If (when) the fiat money systems fail, gold, silver, and real estate will still have value. Bitcoin will not.

Why don't you deniers ever stay in context?

Because you, fanbois, never post screenshots of your spectacular winnings.

FuckCCP89 says

Because you, fanbois, never post screenshots of your spectacular winnings.

Why post what is self evident? lmao Just look at a chart you lazy fucks

FuckCCP89 says

Because you, fanbois, never post screenshots of your spectacular winnings.

What a idiot reason for lacking valid knowledge of the facts....

Cash says

Why don't you deniers ever stay in context?

What has been denied? I could go out and buy a piece of land and find out it has $100M worth or oil or nat. gas. While the land has value regardless, what if there's no resource or it's less than what I paid? Hoping for a huge windfall on something unknown is retarded. I don't think anyone on this forum has wished the crypto people ill will, but you literally have no clue what crypto is and who's holding it. And for that reason, I'm out. I'll take the mostly known over the completely made up.

WookieMan says

What has been denied?

That you and the rest of your gang need to get a little education so you can compare apples to apples and not the turds of ignorance you all throw...

Cash says

FuckCCP89 says

Because you, fanbois, never post screenshots of your spectacular winnings.

What a idiot reason for lacking valid knowledge of the facts....

Fact-shmacts, knowledge-shnowledge: SHOW ME THE FUCKING MONEY!

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Screenshots or GTFO!

Onvacation says

G36 says

No stocks, gold, silver, real estate?

Now those are real and don't depend on the next greatest fool to profit on them. Well maybe they do, but they are real and in the case of stocks represent real companies that produce real stuff (usually). Real estate, gold, and silver "stand alone" and have obvious uses; intrinsic value. Bitcoin has no intrinsic value.

Onvacation, So which one of those real ones do you invest in?

You guys never have the ability to stay in context with what is being shared your concepts are so dated, this isn't the 1970 lmao

FuckCCP89 says

Cash says

FuckCCP89 says

Because you, fanbois, never post screenshots of your spectacular winnings.

What a idiot reason for lacking valid knowledge of the facts....

Fact-shmacts, knowledge-shnowledge: SHOW ME THE FUCKING MONEY!

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Screenshots or GTFO!

Is that all you got? LMAO
Yeah, show it all right here on the internet perfect evidence of your great knowledge of IOT

Cash says

WookieMan says

What has been denied?

That you and the rest of your gang need to get a little education so you can compare apples to apples and not the turds of ignorance you all throw...

You didn't answer the question. Someone saying BTC is worthless doesn't mean you can't make money off it. Has anyone said that? I'm not sure what anyone is denying. You're getting feedback that people think it's a bad way to "invest" money. Sorry you're upset. I guess we'll tell you investing in it makes sense to pad your ego? Sorry, you've lost most of us here in your rabbit hole.

Cash says

That you and the rest of your gang need to get a little education so you can compare apples to apples and not the turds of ignorance you all throw...

Gettin' a bit defensive there.

Spend your money however you want.

40 million people in the crypto market today buying 1000s of products and now all the big banks can play the game being custodians and investors for any and everyone of their clients that want a piece of the action. Yeah the great bank ponzi scheme, JP, Wells, Citi and etc....

Did you know Bitcoin runs on an energy-intensive network?
Ever since its inception Bitcoin’s trust-minimizing consensus has been enabled by its proof-of-work algorithm. The machines performing the “work” are consuming huge amounts of energy while doing so. Moreover, the energy used is primarily sourced from fossil fuels. The Bitcoin Energy Consumption Index was created to provide insight into these amounts, and raise awareness on the unsustainability of the proof-of-work algorithm.

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Onvacation apparently doesnt invest money in assets (other than food/entertainment) and he says people who put money in crypto are greater fools.....
Why Do even keep posting this on a bitcoin & gold discussion? And somehow I think you just dont want to say what you invest in.....

Unsustainable Ponzi scheme!

WookieMan says

Sorry, you've lost most of us here in your rabbit hole.

Only because of your own lack of knowledge and education on the subject....

WookieMan says

Someone saying BTC is worthless doesn't mean you can't make money off it.

What a statement. Can you see the problem, you can't show the blind anything they don't want to see.

Cash says

Can you see the problem you can't show the blind anything they don't want to see.

Exactly. You're catching on. I just don't think you realize you're the blind one. Thanks for the wisdom.

See you at $24,000, then share some more of your great wisdom..

Bitcoin Facts

One bitcoin transaction requires enough electricity to power the average US home for 25.83 days!

The entire network of bitcoin miners uses the same amount of electricity as the country of Chile!

Most miners (around half) are located in China.

If you want to gamble with bitcoin, know what you are getting into.

Onvacation, For someone that only invests in food and entertainment you seem to spend a lot of time researching Bitcoin. Are you sure you dont invest money in assets like stocks, gold or silver?

Onvacation says

One bitcoin transaction requires enough electricity to power the average US home for 25.83 days!

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that doing a bitcoin transaction is either very expensive, or excessively slow.

Bitcoin may go to insane valuations, but it will never, EVER, be something you use to buy a pizza or fill your car up with gas. The cost in time, or money, to do a transaction is enormous. I would say ZERO people who "invest" in bitcoin have ever done a bitcoin transaction and by that, I mean moving a bitcoin from one wallet, to another wallet.

It's clearly a ponzi scheme and entirely unworkable as a currency - that doesn't mean it won't go to $100,000 or something.

Richwicks,

I agree, I wouldnt want to use my bitcoin for buying a pizza. I see it more like as a store of value/inflation hedge. Buy/Hold is my thing.

Also, Its still relatively new tech and transactions will likely get cheaper. There are also conflicting articles. Here is one that states that this 1.1B USD transaction in Bitcoin cost less than $4.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/whale-alert-crypto-user-moves-1-1b-in-bitcoin

G36 says

I agree, I wouldnt want to use my bitcoin for buying a pizza. I see it more like as a store of value/inflation hedge. Buy/Hold is my thing.

Yes, but why would I trade a commodity or a service for your bitcoin? I would only do that if I could immediately sell it, and I wouldn't do that, I would insist you convert it to more typical commodity or currency.

G36 says

Also, Its still relatively new tech and transactions will likely get cheaper. There are also conflicting articles. Here is one that states that this 1.1B USD transaction in Bitcoin cost less than $4.

Do you even have your own wallet? Move $1 worth of bitcoin from one, to a new wallet.

I'm just pointing out that although it's value may go up to enormous values, it is neither a currency, nor is it a store of value. The blockchain is nothing more than a really slow, decentralized database. There may be greater fools out there willing to purchase hashed values - but it CAN'T ever trickle down to a restaurant owner, a gas station owner, or a grocery store owner. They can't use it to trade for goods and services.

It's a classic mania and bitcoin doesn't do what it was created to do. It's worthless to me. In order for me to make use of it, you'd first need a 3rd party to convert it into a current or a commodity I want. I would never accept it in trade for goods or work, and neither would 99% of the world. It's basically a stock of a company that makes no product, and has no earnings. What drives its value up is what people are willing to pay for a stock that the vast majority of people will never accept as payment.

Hi Richwicks, thanks for the perspective. I dont think we are too far away from each other. I dont see Bitcoin as a day-to-day currency.
I dont intent to sell/trade my Bitcoin until the gains are insane. I wont ask you to give me Fiat for it ;)
Obviously, that's what all these exchange's are for and they allow you to trade 24/7.

yeah, I got one of those Trezor wallets but I realized that not all Apps allow you to move your BTC. From Robinhood I cant transfer the crypto. Also, I am able to buy through Paypal now. Not sure if you can transfer the crypto from there. I guess the advantage on Robinhood is that here are no fees.
I had to buy Bitcoin through Coinbase in order to move it to Trezor.

I disagree with your last point. I see it as a store of value and excellent inflation hedge....just think about the gains you would have made by buying it at 3,4k (that wasnt that long ago)......but we will probably say the same about buying BTC at 15k when the price reaches 25k.

I am trying to learn more about it and accumulate. I think it will be very profitable but I totally get that Bitcoin its not for everyone....although, its easy for anyone to buy it in an easy way (PayPal etc).

G36 says

you seem to spend a lot of time researching Bitcoin.

If you don't realize it is a Ponzi scheme dependent on the greater fool maybe you should research it more.

richwicks says

It's clearly a ponzi scheme and entirely unworkable as a currency - that doesn't mean it won't go to $100,000 or something.

Exactly. And the HODL'ers will still be holding their wallets when the last bitcoin has been mined and the hash will be so hard at that point that the blockchain will no longer be updated or only at exorbitant fees.

Current Bitcoin Transaction Fees
Satoshis/Byte USD/tx
Next Block Fee: fee to have your transaction mined on the next block (10 minutes). 362 13.75
3 Blocks Fee: fee to have your transaction mined within three blocks (30 minutes). 358 13.60
6 Blocks Fee: fee to have your transaction mined within six blocks (1 hour). 358 13.60

G36 says

I disagree with your last point. I see it as a store of value and excellent inflation hedge....just think about the gains you would have made by buying it at 3,4k (that wasnt that long ago)......but we will probably say the same about buying BTC at 15k when the price reaches 25k.

I don't engage in ponzi schemes. I just watch them.

Here, let's see if I can post this..



That's a plot of national debt expressed in units of silver. See any pattern? A similar pattern exists with gold, although it was at a fixed rate until 1971. When this blows, and it will, you'll be able to buy a nice house for 10 ounces of gold, or less. You may not be interested in buying a house then though.

ponzi scheme? lol. Sry, i disagree but its funny
okay....so you guys invest in gold or what. Why is it so hard for you Onvacation to tell us what he invests in?

Besides Stocks and RE, I am in Bitcoin, just bought recently. Lets see how I do a year from now. I am not too concerned about midterm swings. It could go back to 12k anyday or be at 18k in a few days.
These runs are kind of exciting for me.

G36 says

ponzi scheme? lol. Sry, i disagree but its funny

It has no utility at all.

Look, if the government wants to destroy bitcoin, they can simply make it illegal. That would crush it.

But what they are more likely to do is to take over the majority of wallets for validating a transaction. All you need to have is the majority of the network, and that could be done with a virus, it could be done with a single data center as well.

Why should I trade goods and services for a hashed number that is exorbitantly expensive to transfer to a 2nd party? I trade paper for goods and services, simply because that is what is required by law. People only accepted this because it was once convertible to gold and silver.

Fiat systems tend to last only a few decades, we've been on this one for 5. It's one of the oldest purely fiat systems ever and it has no scarcity.

The US dollar is not a ponzi scheme, it's the reverse of one. The earlier you get into it, the more wealth you lose. People just simply don't look at past results of such schemes.

G36 says

Why is it so hard for you Onvacation to tell us what he invests in?

I told you, food and entertainment. What else would a person on vacation invest in? I also invest in exercise. I believe it is critical to maintain an active lifestyle. My sailboat is definitely not an investment. Service; my job makes the world a better place.

I don't dox me.

For some reason a lot of software engineers congregate here on Patnet. We know about hashes and understand how bitcoin works. The Ponzi is set up for artificial scarcity and a lifetime estimated to last until 2040 before the last bitcoin is "mined". Your digital "Gold" is only a store of value as long as the network keeps working.

What if a brilliant engineer devises a software or hardware hack that trivializes the "mining" process? They will have a monopoly on new "coins" until the rubes realize nobody wants what is in their digital "wallet". They call it "currency" but it is not widely accepted and circulated from person to person.

See how all the terms fool the gullible?

You can only make money in crypto if someone else buys it from you for more than you bought it including transaction fees.