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589
Onvacation
2020 Dec 29, 8:19am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 29, 8:19am
I'm not going to talk to you any more. Let's have a conversation.
593
Blue
2020 Dec 30, 12:34am
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/after-recent-price-spike-the-energy-to-produce-bitcoin-could-power-a-country-of-more-than-200-million-people-11609244670?mod=home-page
At 92.8 terawatt hours annualized, bitcoin’s power consumption is slightly ahead of Pakistan’s consumption in 2016, and not wildly away from the Netherlands’ consumption that year. Put a different way, the electricity consumed by minting bitcoin could power all the tea kettles in Britain for 21 years.
Two-thirds of bitcoin production is done out of China. More than half of China’s energy output comes from coal, so the bitcoin production is likely to be particularly dirty.
This crap must be shutdown before burning this planet.
At 92.8 terawatt hours annualized, bitcoin’s power consumption is slightly ahead of Pakistan’s consumption in 2016, and not wildly away from the Netherlands’ consumption that year. Put a different way, the electricity consumed by minting bitcoin could power all the tea kettles in Britain for 21 years.
Two-thirds of bitcoin production is done out of China. More than half of China’s energy output comes from coal, so the bitcoin production is likely to be particularly dirty.
This crap must be shutdown before burning this planet.
594
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:17am
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:17am
Blue says
Hard to dispute the environmental effects from such massive electric usage. Whether one wants to believe in global warming or not, coal is nasty either way and is the primary reason China is in a constant haze.
Environment aside, why is China mining 2/3rds of it? I'm sure the CCP has zero money to manipulate the market at all. One of the many reasons to not touch BTC. Can be completely manipulated by the worlds largest countries relatively easy. Decentralized unless you're the CCP mining 2/3rds of coin. People are so easily manipulated. Kind of scary.
Two-thirds of bitcoin production is done out of China. More than half of China’s energy output comes from coal, so the bitcoin production is likely to be particularly dirty.
This crap must be shutdown before burning this planet.
Hard to dispute the environmental effects from such massive electric usage. Whether one wants to believe in global warming or not, coal is nasty either way and is the primary reason China is in a constant haze.
Environment aside, why is China mining 2/3rds of it? I'm sure the CCP has zero money to manipulate the market at all. One of the many reasons to not touch BTC. Can be completely manipulated by the worlds largest countries relatively easy. Decentralized unless you're the CCP mining 2/3rds of coin. People are so easily manipulated. Kind of scary.
595
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 6:27am
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 6:27am
WookieMan says
\the worlds largest
yep, Bitcoin is almost bigger than Berkshire Hathaway! So close :)
https://companiesmarketcap.com/assets-by-market-cap/
\the worlds largest
yep, Bitcoin is almost bigger than Berkshire Hathaway! So close :)
https://companiesmarketcap.com/assets-by-market-cap/
596
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 7:36am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 7:36am
Hey @G36
Do you want to address the unsustainable nature of bitcoin's power use? Or are you going to just keep mindlessly pumping?
Do you want to address the unsustainable nature of bitcoin's power use? Or are you going to just keep mindlessly pumping?
597
Cash
2020 Dec 30, 8:09am
The Last Word on Bitcoin’s Energy Consumption
https://www.coindesk.com/the-last-word-on-bitcoins-energy-consumption
"Let’s start with the basics. Many people, when decrying Bitcoin’s energy footprint, point out its energy consumption and presume that someone, somewhere is being deprived of electricity because of this rapacious asset. Not only is this not the case, but Bitcoin’s presence in many jurisdictions doesn’t affect the price of energy at all because the energy there isn’t actually being used. How could this be?"
"The first thing to understand is that energy is not globally fungible. Electricity decays as it leaves its point of origin; it’s expensive to transport. Globally, about 8 percent of electricity is lost in transit. Even high-voltage transmission lines suffer “line losses,” making it impractical to transport electricity over very long distances. This is why we talk about an energy grid — you have to produce it virtually everywhere, especially near to population centers."
"Ultimately it’s just a matter of opinion as to whether the existence of a non-state, synthetic monetary commodity is a good idea. The truth is that blockspace is a service which is paid for, and that’s where its resource cost is derived. Something duly purchased cannot, by definition, be a waste. Its buyer derives benefit from its existence, regardless of anyone else’s subjective opinion of the merit of the transaction."
https://www.coindesk.com/the-last-word-on-bitcoins-energy-consumption
"Let’s start with the basics. Many people, when decrying Bitcoin’s energy footprint, point out its energy consumption and presume that someone, somewhere is being deprived of electricity because of this rapacious asset. Not only is this not the case, but Bitcoin’s presence in many jurisdictions doesn’t affect the price of energy at all because the energy there isn’t actually being used. How could this be?"
"The first thing to understand is that energy is not globally fungible. Electricity decays as it leaves its point of origin; it’s expensive to transport. Globally, about 8 percent of electricity is lost in transit. Even high-voltage transmission lines suffer “line losses,” making it impractical to transport electricity over very long distances. This is why we talk about an energy grid — you have to produce it virtually everywhere, especially near to population centers."
"Ultimately it’s just a matter of opinion as to whether the existence of a non-state, synthetic monetary commodity is a good idea. The truth is that blockspace is a service which is paid for, and that’s where its resource cost is derived. Something duly purchased cannot, by definition, be a waste. Its buyer derives benefit from its existence, regardless of anyone else’s subjective opinion of the merit of the transaction."
598
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 8:10am
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 8:10am
Onvacation says
Why even ask anymore? You know he doesn't have an answer. Dozens of questions and points have been made here and nothing. Crickets besides the same dumb ass charts over and over again.
Multiple people have come into these threads over the last 2 months and we're all met with the same BS responses. Won't even address what I just brought up with why is China doing so much mining. The have slave labor to building mining farms/computers and if it's run by the CCP, they don't have to pay electric. They just take it from their citizens. When China is doing 2/3rds of the mining or anything that should be very alarming to anyone, even if not invested in crypto.
Or are you going to just keep mindlessly pumping?
Why even ask anymore? You know he doesn't have an answer. Dozens of questions and points have been made here and nothing. Crickets besides the same dumb ass charts over and over again.
Multiple people have come into these threads over the last 2 months and we're all met with the same BS responses. Won't even address what I just brought up with why is China doing so much mining. The have slave labor to building mining farms/computers and if it's run by the CCP, they don't have to pay electric. They just take it from their citizens. When China is doing 2/3rds of the mining or anything that should be very alarming to anyone, even if not invested in crypto.
599
Cash
2020 Dec 30, 8:31am
3 countries host over 50% of the world’s Bitcoin nodes
https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/02/27/3-countries-50-perecent-bitcoin-network/
The US leads the pack with over 2,625 nodes, followed by Germany and France with 2016 and 698 respectively.
Incredibly, these three countries are responsible for over 50 percent of all operational Bitcoin nodes.
https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/02/27/3-countries-50-perecent-bitcoin-network/
The US leads the pack with over 2,625 nodes, followed by Germany and France with 2016 and 698 respectively.
Incredibly, these three countries are responsible for over 50 percent of all operational Bitcoin nodes.
600
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 8:34am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 8:34am
Cash says
OK.
It's my opinion that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme where all the incoming money goes to the miners and the only way to get your money out is to find someone to buy your coin; the greater fool theory.
Tell me why I am wrong?
Ultimately it’s just a matter of opinion as to whether the existence of a non-state, synthetic monetary commodity is a good idea.
OK.
It's my opinion that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme where all the incoming money goes to the miners and the only way to get your money out is to find someone to buy your coin; the greater fool theory.
Tell me why I am wrong?
601
Cash
2020 Dec 30, 9:37am
You idiots dont have a sincere bone in your bodies you are trolls with a capital T and I will bet in reality most all reasonable ppl on this forum see it for themselves.
I'll let price poo all over your asshole opinions;) You and woodie will be saying the same thing no matter how high the price of Crypto goes....
At the same time everyone on the forum will see what fools you have made of yourselves because you really know nothing about the subject
except what you pull out of your asses for years chew and spit out ...
I'll let price poo all over your asshole opinions;) You and woodie will be saying the same thing no matter how high the price of Crypto goes....
At the same time everyone on the forum will see what fools you have made of yourselves because you really know nothing about the subject
except what you pull out of your asses for years chew and spit out ...
602
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:01am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:01am
Cash says
So what about the sustainability thing?
How can you get money out when the money is consumed without finding a bigger fool?
Not expecting cogent answers.
You and woodie will be saying the same thing no matter how high the price of Crypto goes....
At the same time everyone on the forum will see what fools you have made of yourselves because you really know nothing about the subject
except what you pull out of your asses for years chew and spit out ...
So what about the sustainability thing?
How can you get money out when the money is consumed without finding a bigger fool?
Not expecting cogent answers.
604
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:02am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:02am
Cash says
A little defensive, aren't we?
When someone can't argue the facts they go for the personal attack.
I'll let price poo all over your asshole opinions
A little defensive, aren't we?
When someone can't argue the facts they go for the personal attack.
605
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 10:03am
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 10:03am
Cash says
Nice!! Thanks for sharing @Cash
3 countries host over 50% of the world’s Bitcoin nodes
https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/02/27/3-countries-50-perecent-bitcoin-network/
The US leads the pack with over 2,625 nodes, followed by Germany and France with 2016 and 698 respectively.
Incredibly, these three countries are responsible for over 50 percent of all operational Bitcoin nodes.
Nice!! Thanks for sharing @Cash
606
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:05am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:05am
G36 says
I missed out on beanie babies too.
Are either of you two crypto fanatics going to address the sustainability questions?
Every time the price goes up they are kicking themselves for not getting in...
I missed out on beanie babies too.
Are either of you two crypto fanatics going to address the sustainability questions?
607
mell
2020 Dec 30, 10:09am
Onvacation says
It may or may not be energy efficient to mine it and it may or may not get worse, but people have been mining gold since forever no matter whether the current price justified the time, energy and money to put into mining it. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof. Yes there are also quite a few drawbacks, but since it has intrinsic value and is limited in supply I don't see how it can be a ponzi scheme. It may well drop from whatever high it will reach and not recover but by then plenty of early adopters will have made plenty of money and those arriving late will be the bagholders, how is this different from investing in any other asset? I really never see it going worthless again let alone drop below 5k though anything is possible. I also don't buy any of those lofty targets of hundreds of 1000s, obviously these promoting firms have a vested self interest to pump it once they jumped in. I can see a range anywhere between $5k-$100k for the short to mid-term (1-2 years), long term who knows.
Cash saysUltimately it’s just a matter of opinion as to whether the existence of a non-state, synthetic monetary commodity is a good idea.
OK.
It's my opinion that bitcoin is a ponzi scheme where all the incoming money goes to the miners and the only way to get your money out is to find someone to buy your coin; the greater fool theory.
Tell me why I am wrong?
It may or may not be energy efficient to mine it and it may or may not get worse, but people have been mining gold since forever no matter whether the current price justified the time, energy and money to put into mining it. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof. Yes there are also quite a few drawbacks, but since it has intrinsic value and is limited in supply I don't see how it can be a ponzi scheme. It may well drop from whatever high it will reach and not recover but by then plenty of early adopters will have made plenty of money and those arriving late will be the bagholders, how is this different from investing in any other asset? I really never see it going worthless again let alone drop below 5k though anything is possible. I also don't buy any of those lofty targets of hundreds of 1000s, obviously these promoting firms have a vested self interest to pump it once they jumped in. I can see a range anywhere between $5k-$100k for the short to mid-term (1-2 years), long term who knows.
608
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 10:41am
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 10:41am
Nice post mell!
Same here, I would be more than happy with 100k Bitcoin. But who knows by how much retail and institutional investors can drive up the price in 2021. Obviously, as a Bitcoin holder I welcome that institutions are being so bullish on BTC.
Same here, I would be more than happy with 100k Bitcoin. But who knows by how much retail and institutional investors can drive up the price in 2021. Obviously, as a Bitcoin holder I welcome that institutions are being so bullish on BTC.
609
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:54am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:54am
mell says
That's exactly the point.
A lot of work and resources go into mining and refining gold. A gold coin represents that labor and those resources. Once mined you have a shiny, useful, object that will last until inexpensively recycled into something else, maybe jewelry or part of a microchip. You can always find a buyer for your coin. People will continue to find, refine, and desire gold. It is what it is.
A lot of work and resources go into "mining" bitcoin. There really are no coins. There are bits (digital 0's and 1's) on a flashdrive representing an individual's share of the pie. The pie is a ledger that documents each "anonymous " transaction so that all decentralized ledgers agree. Incredibly energy intensive and the whole thing goes away if you pull the plug. You can always sell a bitcoin but if the price is too low the "miners" will only process it at a price, or for a fee.
people have been mining gold since forever
That's exactly the point.
A lot of work and resources go into mining and refining gold. A gold coin represents that labor and those resources. Once mined you have a shiny, useful, object that will last until inexpensively recycled into something else, maybe jewelry or part of a microchip. You can always find a buyer for your coin. People will continue to find, refine, and desire gold. It is what it is.
A lot of work and resources go into "mining" bitcoin. There really are no coins. There are bits (digital 0's and 1's) on a flashdrive representing an individual's share of the pie. The pie is a ledger that documents each "anonymous " transaction so that all decentralized ledgers agree. Incredibly energy intensive and the whole thing goes away if you pull the plug. You can always sell a bitcoin but if the price is too low the "miners" will only process it at a price, or for a fee.
610
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:59am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 10:59am
mell says
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof.
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
611
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:00am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:00am
mell says
I'd rather hold a bag of emeralds.
It may well drop from whatever high it will reach and not recover but by then plenty of early adopters will have made plenty of money and those arriving late will be the bagholders
I'd rather hold a bag of emeralds.
612
mell
2020 Dec 30, 11:09am
Onvacation says
It has certain qualities if you transact with it that gives it its worth. If gold would lose its desirability for jewelry and bling tomorrow it would still have its raw physical value which is much lower but nonetheless. But even then it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin. I agree that it would be more likely for bitcoin to become worthless than gold but both scenarios are so unlikely that they're on par with the dollar losing all of its value because it is fiat. That will never happen as long as the US exists and is half-way functioning. We're talking about many years if not decades or centuries down the road, so sure bitcoin can become worthless by then or be replaced with something else but it's irrelevant for our current trading and investing outlook, it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land, but nonetheless a part of it. Just don't hold all of your net worth in a single asset class and you should be fine.
mell says. It has intrinsic value as a decentralized form of payment, potentially anonymous and tamper-proof.
Wouldn't that be extrinsic value?
Bitcoin has as much intrinsic value as the paper dollar it's valued in.
It has certain qualities if you transact with it that gives it its worth. If gold would lose its desirability for jewelry and bling tomorrow it would still have its raw physical value which is much lower but nonetheless. But even then it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin. I agree that it would be more likely for bitcoin to become worthless than gold but both scenarios are so unlikely that they're on par with the dollar losing all of its value because it is fiat. That will never happen as long as the US exists and is half-way functioning. We're talking about many years if not decades or centuries down the road, so sure bitcoin can become worthless by then or be replaced with something else but it's irrelevant for our current trading and investing outlook, it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land, but nonetheless a part of it. Just don't hold all of your net worth in a single asset class and you should be fine.
613
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:16am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:16am
mell says
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
it depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
614
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:18am
Onvacation
2020 Dec 30, 11:18am
mell says
Kind of like lotto tickets. Don't spend more than you can lose.
it's just one part of the asset basket mix, a more speculative and volatile than gold or land
Kind of like lotto tickets. Don't spend more than you can lose.
615
mell
2020 Dec 30, 11:22am
Onvacation says
Any of the above. Also inflation hedge and a more anonymous, decentralized way of conducting business. Just because it's (partially) deemed criminal now to evade taxes doesn't mean it will stay that way if enough institutions jump into it and lobby. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who currently hide their gains and transactions to save cap gains tax and/or sales/transaction taxes.
mell saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin? Paying off ransoms? Laundering money? Hoping that someone, someday, will pay a lot more than you did?
Any of the above. Also inflation hedge and a more anonymous, decentralized way of conducting business. Just because it's (partially) deemed criminal now to evade taxes doesn't mean it will stay that way if enough institutions jump into it and lobby. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of people who currently hide their gains and transactions to save cap gains tax and/or sales/transaction taxes.
616
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 1:41pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 1:41pm
mell says
Onvacation saysmell saysOnvacation saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin?mell saysit depends on others having a use for the raw material similar to others having a use for the bitcoin.
What are the uses of bitcoin?
Just take a look. Its digital gold. Obviously!
620
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 3:03pm
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 3:03pm
Onvacation says
I don't do ignore, but I think we need to just let this go. Move on. You, myself and others have put out facts and thoughts on crypto, specifically BTC. He's not going to answer because he can't or simply doesn't know. Let him have his circle jerk with whoever wants to receive it.
He threw a $1 corner bet and won... for now. The problem is he thinks sitting at the casino all night is a good idea instead of taking gains. That's why most gamblers are losers. He's likely 27, got sold on crypto by Uncle Ralph at Christmas 2017 and has been holding dead money until now. Throws up screen shots from accounts that look like they're from a pixelated 1990's computer screen. I mean come on, can't even take some gains and buy a decent PC, Mac or phone?
I'm convinced he's paid to do this and has done it under other usernames here. Not a knock on patnet, I know there are tons of lurkers, but I'm not sure the end goal. I don't really understand what paid pumping gets you at patnet. Doesn't understand what a troll is either. Thought the youngster were smarter with the web...
Tell us more about "market cap".
I don't do ignore, but I think we need to just let this go. Move on. You, myself and others have put out facts and thoughts on crypto, specifically BTC. He's not going to answer because he can't or simply doesn't know. Let him have his circle jerk with whoever wants to receive it.
He threw a $1 corner bet and won... for now. The problem is he thinks sitting at the casino all night is a good idea instead of taking gains. That's why most gamblers are losers. He's likely 27, got sold on crypto by Uncle Ralph at Christmas 2017 and has been holding dead money until now. Throws up screen shots from accounts that look like they're from a pixelated 1990's computer screen. I mean come on, can't even take some gains and buy a decent PC, Mac or phone?
I'm convinced he's paid to do this and has done it under other usernames here. Not a knock on patnet, I know there are tons of lurkers, but I'm not sure the end goal. I don't really understand what paid pumping gets you at patnet. Doesn't understand what a troll is either. Thought the youngster were smarter with the web...
621
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 3:18pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 3:18pm
WookieMan says
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/89533/anthony-scaramuccis-skybridge-has-invested-182-million-into-bitcoin-according-to-deck
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
a good idea
https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/89533/anthony-scaramuccis-skybridge-has-invested-182-million-into-bitcoin-according-to-deck
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
622
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:10pm
WookieMan
2020 Dec 30, 4:10pm
G36 says
Lol. There's zero proof they invested a dime. You don't have any proof besides what they say because it's anonymous, right? It's okay to say yes when someone is right. This round might be the pump that kills BTC. The fake trust in it will be tested after this run. I hope you're taking gains, because the fall is going to be dramatic.
Wow! The mooch had a good idea! invested 182M into Bitcoin! Smart man!
Lol. There's zero proof they invested a dime. You don't have any proof besides what they say because it's anonymous, right? It's okay to say yes when someone is right. This round might be the pump that kills BTC. The fake trust in it will be tested after this run. I hope you're taking gains, because the fall is going to be dramatic.
624
Blue
2020 Dec 30, 7:27pm
BTC has better ecosystem for now. If any other crypro(s) can do that, can immediately challenge BTC. Search for "How to Get Started on Creating Your Own Cryptocurrency". Any high school drop out can do it.
625
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 7:43pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 7:43pm
@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
626
Blue
2020 Dec 30, 8:09pm
G36 says
As I mentioned BTC is one ecosystem away. Like others mentioned, folks who are in, they try to pump up even more for now. My point was, there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.
@Blue, why dont you start? If you get all these institutions to invest in your crypto, I might invest in it too.
Wake us up when you had some success. good luck!
As I mentioned BTC is one ecosystem away. Like others mentioned, folks who are in, they try to pump up even more for now. My point was, there is no secret sauce in creating any crypto.
628
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 8:50pm
Bitcoin
2020 Dec 30, 8:50pm
Think about this. Bitcoin won against hundreds if not thousands of cryptos! Institutions are pouring millions and millions of USD into Bitcoin. The price is headed towards 30k and the market cap is bigger than Berkshire Hathaway. We are in ultra bullish conditions for Bitcoin (digital gold).
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