patrick.net

Second, this article is illuminating:

https://www.newswars.com/ron-paul-kabul-has-fallen-but-dont-blame-biden/

After a 20 year war that drained trillions from Americans’ pockets, the capital of Afghanistan fell without a fight. The corrupt Potemkin regime that the US had been propping up for two decades and the Afghan military that we had spent billions training just melted away.

The rush is on now to find somebody to blame for the chaos in Afghanistan. Many of the “experts” doing the finger-pointing are the ones most to blame. Politicians and pundits who played cheerleader for this war for two decades are now rushing to blame President Biden for finally getting the US out. Where were they when succeeding presidents continued to add troops and expand the mission in Afghanistan?

The US war on Afghanistan was not lost yesterday in Kabul. It was lost the moment it shifted from a limited mission to apprehend those who planned the attack on 9/11 to an exercise in regime change and nation-building.

Immediately after the 9/11 attacks I proposed that we issue letters of marque and reprisal to bring those responsible to justice. But such a limited and targeted response to the attack was ridiculed at the time. How could the US war machine and all its allied profiteers make their billions if we didn’t put on a massive war?

So who is to blame for the scenes from Afghanistan this weekend? There is plenty to go around.

Congress has kicked the can down the road for 20 years, continuing to fund the Afghan war long after even they understood that there was no point to the US occupation. There were some efforts by some Members to end the war, but most, on a bipartisan basis, just went along to get along.

Something to ponder about:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/63407-400gallon-gas-another-cost-of-war-in-afghanistan-

The fully burdened cost of fuel accounts for the cost of transporting it to where it is needed, said Kevin Geiss, program director for energy security in the Office of the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations and Environment....analysts have estimated the fully burdened cost of fuel [for troops in Afghanistan] might even be as high as $1,000 per gallon.

Good night, taxpayers....

Bd6r says

We can criticize him for implementation,

And this is exactly what he's being criticized for.

Bd6r says

So who is to blame for the scenes from Afghanistan this weekend?

Milley and the rest of his non-binary generals. They should have been concentrating on doing their jobs wrt planning the withdrawal operation instead of looking up some prolapsed anuses in search of the higher truth.

But ultimately - Sleepy Joe. "The buck stops where it stops" and all that.

Eric Holder says

But ultimately - Sleepy Joe.

Ultimately - GW Bush, who started this crap, and then 80% of politicians from both parties who voted for funding this idiocy, methinks.

Another interesting thing to ponder about. USSR withdrew from Afghanistan in 1989, economy collapsed in 1991. USA - 2021 and 2023???

Bd6r says

Ultimately - GW Bush

Blaming GW Bush for a botched withdrawal in 2021 is too easy of an exit for the fuckers currently in power. They need to do their jobs right with the cards they were dealt when they came to power, or stay the fuck out of it if they can't.

I nearly got sent to Afghanistan in 1988...lucked out, otherwise I would probably not be here typing nonsense on computer. I would be either dead or too mentally scarred to lead a productive life.

It is painful to see how, after USSR stepped on a landmine called Afghanistan and blew itself up, USA did the same thing, wasting trillions of dollars and many lives.

Eric Holder says

Blaming GW Bush for a botched withdrawal in 2021 is too easy of an exit for the fuckers currently in power. They need to do their jobs right with the cards they were dealt when they came to power, or stay the fuck out of it if they can't.

I'm not questioning incompetence of the rainbow-flagged military or persons who lead them (incl Bidet), but better get out in any way possible, rather than stay there and waste money and lives.

Bd6r says

I nearly got sent to Afghanistan in 1988...lucked out, otherwise I would probably not be here typing nonsense on computer. It is painful to see how, after USSR stepped on a landmine called Afghanistan and blew itself up, USA did the same thing, wasting trillions of dollars and many lives.

We seem to be eager to step on the same shit be it Afghanistan, "diversity admissions", "equity", "conserving electricity and water", "gathering food scraps", "encouraging public transportation", "eating less meat", yada yada yada.

Eric Holder says

We seem to be eager to step on the same shit be it Afghanistan, "diversity admissions", "equity", "conserving electricity and water", "gathering food scraps", "encouraging public transportation", "eating less meat", yada yada yada.

There is an eerie similarity.

+can't talk freely - if you do, will get fired from your job, like in late Soviet Union. Dissenters were not placed into camps for most, just fired from well-paid jobs and had to sweep streets.

I would imagine many seized military items in AFG are chipped. It may even be that previously imprisoned Taliban were put to sleep and chipped. If the chips were placed in parts of the body where they couldn't be retrieved without killing the host, then the released Taliban warriors are homing beacons.

Military can watch the logistics of where they are deployed, Trojan horse like.

I don't think Biden (Handlers) were exercising choice about the AFG situation. It seems more like a setup, and the main issue with Biden (Handlers) is to continue to create the illusion that they are in control. Biden wanders around in a fog and just paraphrases what his earphone feed tells him, and lies like a dog because he is a congenital sociopathic liar.

This event is a non story imo except for the wasted lives and $$.

Bd6r says

Eric Holder says

We seem to be eager to step on the same shit be it Afghanistan, "diversity admissions", "equity", "conserving electricity and water", "gathering food scraps", "encouraging public transportation", "eating less meat", yada yada yada.

There is an eerie similarity.

+can't talk freely - if you do, will get fired from your job, like in late Soviet Union. Dissenters were not placed into camps for most, just fired from well-paid jobs and had to sweep streets.

And last, but not least - fucking "reusable shopping bags"!

HunterTits says

We a) get out and b) get to blame it all in Biden. :)

Tee-hee.

After the waste of blood and treasure, I hope the USA starts getting smart about fighting terrorists; just keep them the fuck out of the USA.
Spy on the muslins who are unfortunately already here.
In my personal life, the most annoying problems came from association with losers, assholes, etc.
I unfortunately learned late to be a bigot and maybe a racist; anyone who doesn't look like me or talk like me I am careful with.
I instinctively mistrust foreigners; speakers of English, German, Japanese and French get better treatment than others.
I learned decades ago not to trust a guy whose name ended in a Y or an IE.

It wasn't executed properly at all. Biden is the commander in chief of our military and state department. The amount of weapons and equipment we left is probably beyond what we'll ever know. At minimum that should have been done months ago, even if he didn't formally announce it.

This was a petty TDS thing where the left didn't want to give Trump credit for something that should have been done in May. It's almost September. He then waited days to even address the nation about a place we've been fighting in for 20 years. That's not leadership.

The story itself on the face of it is trivial and really not a big deal. It's the magnitude and pettiness of Biden and the left on how this played out. Taliban was coming regardless, but the optics are god awful for Biden.

"The Americans are leaving everywhere which will free up the entire American military to do whatever the hell the Americans decide to do, whenever they decide to do it."

There's the bad news. A force with 20 years of experience occupying a country where "hostiles are hiding amongst the crowds" should prove useful if they decide to go full Holo-cough.

Khrist on a Kracker. Don't make me feel sorry for the ludicrous pervert.

HunterTits says

America’s rivals want the Americans to make the world safe for Iranian and Russian oil shipments and for Chinese merchandise trade, but for the Americans to not muck about in their neighborhoods.

Now Russians are screwed, as in unchecked Islamists right next to their client states in Central Asia, and same for Chinese. I can wish them good luck!

China falling into the trap, or are they calling on bought and paid for Biden-Asset to deliver the ultimate prize?

Bd6r says

HunterTits says

America’s rivals want the Americans to make the world safe for Iranian and Russian oil shipments and for Chinese merchandise trade, but for the Americans to not muck about in their neighborhoods.

Now Russians are screwed, as in unchecked Islamists right next to their client states in Central Asia, and same for Chinese. I can wish them good luck!

Taliban are mostly Pashtuns whereas the Russian client states in the area are mostly Tajiks, Uzbeks and Turkmen. Not much incentive for Talibs to go there, methinks.

"3. It's only a matter of time before another 9/11': Fears withdrawal from Afghanistan means US has 'taken eyes off overseas terrorism': E"

Why, are Bush, Cheney and Mossad planning another attack on skyscrapers and the Pentagon?

Ron Paul was right back in 2001: should've hit them hard (almost to the point of "bombed into Stone Age") and immediately withdrawn promising to rinse and repeat if any kind of anti-US fuckery would be spotted on their soil, no excuses accepted.

They're already in the stone age.

But I agree with (I think it's technically the "Powell Doctrine") of hit hard and immediately leave.

https://t.me/WeTheMedia/30053

Patrick says

They're already in the stone age.

But I agree with (I think it's technically the "Powell Doctrine") of hit hard and immediately leave.

Wasn't it Powell who promoted the "pottery store rule" ("If you break it - you own it")?

Bd6r says

Trump tried but could not

Trump had set a May 1 withdrawal deadline.

Biden failed to honor that.

Libs and biden trying to focus and make the conversation about leaving which most agree we should be out of there. Reality is he royally fucked up implementing withdrawal and he is trying to mix one with the other.

Bd6r says

Obama did not want to leave, Trump tried but could not, now Biden did it finally.

This is completely disingenuous. Trump was prevented doing so by Congressional constraints.

Good article from a year ago on how Trump was blocked from removing troops (I posted in another thread).
https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2020/07/unconventional-tactic-becomes-congresss-go-weapon-against-troop-withdrawal/166880/

In any case, he drew down from 15k to 2k - even Biden pointed that out in his speech. Biden likes to say that "I opposed Obama's surge". If true, it just means he was ineffective. Biden likes to play it both ways - but there is no doubt that the Obama/Biden reign was growing the war until Trump won in 2016.

I think this whole thing was a political mess. We should have been out of there in 2018-9 but Congress DEMs didn't want Trump to get the political "win" and instead delayed his withdrawal with the help of the REPs as well (everyone likes MIL spending). Perhaps in hind sight Congress actually knew a withdrawal would be mess. Had they known it would be a disaster, they might have let Trump do it! :)

Either way, we are out. And that is all anyone will, in the end, remember. No one will care that Biden's team failed in successfully exiting the country and keeping our allies out of harms way. The magnitude of the incompetence is astonishing. No one seemed to expect that it could fall in < 24hrs.

krc says

The magnitude of the incompetence is astonishing. No one seemed to expect that it could fall in < 24hrs.

"OMG, Trump didn't trust the intelligence communitay! How dared he!"

I think Biden was right to leave… but I think he should have appropriately set the American public up expectation wise. He should have given a worse case scenario… saying this exit could very well be a shit show and the Taliban could overrun Kabul in a matter of days if the Afghan men we trained surrender, join the Taliban or run like babies…. Basically he should have put the blame on the Afghans we gave trillions to… and if it collapsed he could then point the finger and say I told you so.

When my boss says all hands on deck, we’re gonna have to work weekends, it’s gonna be busy as hell and prepares me for the worst and it ends up better… I feel better. It’s management 101!

HunterTits says

Optics of his own making, insofar he's aware of what he even says.

"This will not be like Saigon with the helicopters evacuating the Embassy from the rooftop!" (paraphrasing)

Optics would only be around 50% as bad as they are are if he didn't say that.

Agree. 50% likely was what he previously said. The other 50% of the problem is this makes the US look soooooooo weak. Can't even properly get out of goat fucker territory and we leave tons of war weapons and equipment. It's embarrassing. 20 years and in 15 days it's overturned and it looks like we're running for the hills. Out leader doesn't talk about it for days.

BoomAndBustCycle says

When my boss says all hands on deck, we’re gonna have to work weekends, it’s gonna be busy as hell and prepares me for the worst and it ends up better… I feel better. It’s management 101!

We were right to leave, but this mindset fails most of the time. 80/20 rule. 20% will do the work while the other 80% fuck off. You piss off the productive people by managing this way. Cause burn out and ultimately more time, money and employees leaving.

Witnessing it right now with my neighbor who makes about $170k/yr. He's literally the only one capable of coding what needs to be coded. The boss pushes harder and harder. Fellow employees work weekends and he has to fix all their mistakes. He might actually quit this week or next week because of this exact mindset. Decade at this company. Management cannot and should not push people in things they don't understand. They should have been better prepared or hired better instead of freaking out and making people work weekends in most white collar jobs. You're a failure if you have to do what you say as a manager.

Bd6r says

The US war on Afghanistan was not lost yesterday in Kabul. It was lost the moment it shifted from a limited mission to apprehend those who planned the attack on 9/11 to an exercise in regime change and nation-building.

You can’t lose a war that you never intended to win. It was not a war it was a corrupt government exercise designed to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the weak and powerless working men and women of the world.

I think we are probably being misled by the "withdrawal". There is withdrawal in a sense but we are probably not out of the game. I can't believe that we would close shop one day and leave after investing 1t into this sheethole. I think it is more to than what we are seeing. I trust American greed.

gabbar says

I think it is more to than what we are seeing. I trust American greed.

I think the incompetence of the American elite is on full display here.

Eric Holder says

Bd6r says

Ultimately - GW Bush

Blaming GW Bush for a botched withdrawal in 2021 is too easy of an exit for the fuckers currently in power. They need to do their jobs right with the cards they were dealt when they came to power, or stay the fuck out of it if they can't.

Agreed. If you can't safely close shop you have failed to the greatest extent, there Is no praise whatsoever in this for bidet. Again, Trump would have withdrawn with a stern warning of impending poundings on any reports of gross human rights violations. There's a reason Trump got so much done, because he doesn't just draw a fucking line in the sand, he fucking means it. Zero fucks given

krc says

We should have been out of there in 2018-9

we should have not been there in first place, thus saving trillions of $$$ and many lives.
krc says

our allies

Most of them were allies just for the moment they were paid.
HunterTits says

Optics of his own making, insofar he's aware of what he even says.

Incompetence of Bidet cabinet was of intergalactic nature, both in the way how they withdrew troops, and in how they spun what happened.

Does not change tho that he finally got us out.

WookieMan says

we leave tons of war weapons and equipment.

I wonder if this is on purpose, like it was done for Al Qaeda in Syria, generously armed by US taxpayers. On other hand, incompetence of Bidet cabinet makes that somewhat less likely.

Bd6r says

Does not change tho that he finally got us out.

Dollars to donuts the US is just going to start another goddamned useless war. They might not even bother to tell us where - but my bet is Somalia and/or Iran. These motherfuckers never cease spreading misery and chaos.

I don't think that "he" got us out at all.

I think the Taliban got us out.