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Always use cash from now on, not credit cards


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2021 Sep 4, 4:36pm   6,909 views  192 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (58)   💰tip ($0.75 in tips)  

Drove to a restaurant today with my wife and was first of all creeped out to find that they knew my name from my phone number, which I had to give to get on the wait list. They said they use a centralized database of many restaurants for that.

They have a window where you can order a beer while you are waiting. So I ordered a beer and they refused to take cash.

OK, I wanted the beer, so I paid with a credit card. Then the total had an extra $1.50 on it. I asked about that and was told that I added a tip. I specifically did not add a tip because I was pissed that they don't take cash.

I got the manager and made him remove the tip.

We are rapidly approaching the CCP utopia of complete tracking of all citizens at all times.

Lesson: call ahead and make sure a restaurant will take cash. If they will not, don't go there.

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103   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 5, 3:33pm  

This is well known by those of us who have lived in Tijuana, a UPS or Postal Annex box have the look of a physical address.

My car insurance did lookup the address, and requested another one, which I gave them. But no one else has any issue with it. This includes the IRS, California DMV, and DHS(we have Sentri).
104   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 5, 3:36pm  

But to rephrase a section of Luna's book, if they have unlimited money and resources, they will find you. So if the government were ever to take an active interest in me, it would not be too hard. But for the rest of you, it will never be worth the time and expense, so you'll never find me.
105   Onvacation   2022 Aug 5, 3:38pm  

Patrick says

What do you do about government requests for address that do not accept PO boxes, like your driver's license?

My CDL has a PO box for an address. I lived on my boat for a couple of years and had my official address as my PO box in Oakland. I was required to give the DMV the address of my marina and my slip number. I have moved my boat twice since then but my official address, according to DMV, is still my PO box.
106   Patrick   2022 Aug 5, 3:44pm  

NuttBoxer says

This is well known by those of us who have lived in Tijuana, a UPS or Postal Annex box have the look of a physical address.


I don't understand. What does Tijuana have to do with a UPS box? And don't you have to give ID with a real address to UPS to get the box? So then there's a trail to where you really are.
107   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 8, 3:36pm  

This is a good point to ponder. While many of us assume government's data collection prevents privacy, it's really our data sharing that does it, to ourselves. Most of their programs are quite passive, and rely heavily on user compliance to work.

As I've said before, we are building the prison ourselves, not them. So stop building it.
111   WookieMan   2022 Aug 30, 10:36am  

Jesus, we'll argue this when we finally meet at some point. Privacy was gone eons ago. Not talking the last 5 years. 2000 and earlier it was gone. Most of you guys are techies and don't really understand how far the reach is. A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.

The game of trying to stay private is over, has been for a while. You guys don't have to listen to me, but I'm 100% right. The game is already over. I've said it before, if you want to mess things up you need to cause confusion. Not try to hide. Put out as much BS information about yourself as you can.

Either way we're living 1984. Just need to know how to play the game. Hiding makes you a target.
112   WookieMan   2022 Aug 30, 10:39am  

Patrick says



Also, I don't do Starbucks. So them going cashless moves ME in zero ways. Frankly I don't hang out with anyone that goes to Starbucks. Not a joke. Over priced shit full of diabetes #sugar.
113   mell   2022 Aug 30, 10:45am  

This seems to be untrue according to Starbucks
115   Patrick   2022 Aug 30, 11:52am  

WookieMan says

The game is already over. I've said it before, if you want to mess things up you need to cause confusion. Not try to hide. Put out as much BS information about yourself as you can.


The game is never over. I agree that putting out BS information is good, but it is also possible to minimize your footprint.
116   Onvacation   2022 Aug 30, 1:56pm  

Give them cash and say, "keep the change". I bet they take your cash
117   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Aug 30, 2:02pm  

i prefer cash, they can’t track my habits and make decisions to manipulate me
118   Patrick   2022 Aug 30, 2:08pm  

Yes, and even better than Federal Reserve Notes which become worthless over time would be silver coins.
119   BayArea   2022 Aug 30, 11:03pm  

The Starbucks picture above was sent to me by my brother. I had assumed he personally took the pic.

I inquired today where he got it. He said it was not a picture he took but a pic that was taken from the internet.

It looks like it may not be real.

https://twitter.com/StarbucksUK/status/1564576677782605827?cxt=HHwWhsC-8d2Mv7YrAAAA
120   Patrick   2022 Aug 30, 11:07pm  

We will know on Oct 1st for sure.
121   richwicks   2022 Aug 31, 3:17am  

WookieMan says


Jesus, we'll argue this when we finally meet at some point. Privacy was gone eons ago. Not talking the last 5 years. 2000 and earlier it was gone. Most of you guys are techies and don't really understand how far the reach is. A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.


I'm a techie.

We aren't at the point yet where your individual transactions can be tracked.

That's OPT-IN. If you chose to do business with a company that only accepts credit cards, you're inviting your slavery. Cameras recording the location of your car, you can't opt out of that.

There's a huge difference, and if you don't recognize that and just give up, well, fuck you.

I will never go to a store that is "non-cash-only". I was at a coffee shop that wouldn't accept cash and only told me after I ordered, and I made it very clear to them, I will never return here again, I have a $10 bill here, if you don't want it, that's fine. I got a free coffee, even after I explained I would never return - and I never will return.

I expect Starbucks to survive, after all, they make terrible quality coffee that they mask with tons of sugar. It's truly some of the worst coffee on the planet. Their marketing is that they are "upscale" and that convinced vacant idiots that have never had actual coffee before that it's better - because they saw it on teeeeveeee - it must be true. Their GOD wouldn't lie to them, would it?

Go get a black coffee from Starbucks and another at 7/11 - you tell me which is less drinkable. Seriously. Denny's makes better coffee than Starbucks.

The WHOLE point of cash, is a statement of: "I'm totally giving your permission to tell the government to go get fucked!" Small businesses recognize this with a wink and a nod.

Did I just order a pizza, or did the ingredients for that pizza go bad and have to be thrown out? WHO KNOWS? Like it's any of this FUCKING government's business.
122   BayArea   2022 Aug 31, 6:05am  

Fuck coffee!

Seriously… put that nasty, dehydrating, shit-breath causing, expensive, jitter causing poison aside and have some water for gawd’s sake.

Coffee and cigarettes, ugh

My wife and I both came to the realization that coffee has no place in our household, no benefit to us (only expense, inconvenience, and jitters), quitting cold turkey.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. Put the chains out of business.
123   mell   2022 Aug 31, 7:14am  

BayArea says

Fuck coffee!

Seriously… put that nasty, dehydrating, shit-breath causing, expensive, jitter causing poison aside and have some water for gawd’s sake.

Coffee and cigarettes, ugh

My wife and I both came to the realization that coffee has no place in our household, no benefit to us (only expense, inconvenience, and jitters), quitting cold turkey.

I encourage everyone else to do the same. Put the chains out of business.

Coffee, obviously as opposed to cigarettes, has been shown to prolong longevity in many studies, so it's healthy (withouts sugar). That being said, it's definitely not necessary. I like a good coffee, or 2 or 3.
124   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 8:02am  

WookieMan says

A camera at an intersection can identify your license plate, address, AND the biggie, your face.


Not my home address, and I always have my visor down now, so not my face. And if I wanted to put out the cash, not even my name if I add my vehicle to an LLC. Just because you don't understand how to fight for privacy, doesn't mean the rest of us should give up.
125   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 8:07am  

As I've mentioned before, outside of a few lost cause restaurants during the Scamdemic, all places that say cashless still take Federal reserve dollars. Seriously doubting Starbucks will go full payment tracking. Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.
126   RWSGFY   2022 Aug 31, 9:11am  

BayArea says




How is this legal?
127   mell   2022 Aug 31, 9:25am  

Afaik Starbucks has denied this and claimed it was put up by one store only, so I don't think it's true
128   komputodo   2022 Aug 31, 9:36am  

Patrick says

Drove to a restaurant today with my wife and was first of all creeped out to find that they knew my name from my phone number

It's because you're famous. A celebrity. Was there Paparazzi too?
129   WookieMan   2022 Aug 31, 9:40am  

NuttBoxer says

Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.

What in the flying fuck would that do? They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it no different than a credit card. Your face exist. You're living in la la land if you think you're being stealthy.

You guys do know the bank has the number for every bill you carry when you withdraw it? I'm talking the number on the bill. Unless you earn cash payment and don't use a bank, it's all tracked. Again 100%.

I feel like I'm the crazy person. I know this stuff. I have no incentive to lie to a random internet forum. Cash is traceable and not private, unless it's peer to peer. Buy groceries with cash, I can check your receipt and know what you bought. Does every business have this capability, no. But living in fantasy land of thinking cash cannot be tracked is laughable.

This is going to be harsh. Kill a nobody, homeless person. 9 out of 10 times you'll get caught even though you don't think you would.

You can't hide your identity if you want to live in the modern world. Sure, don't join FB. I get that. But if you buy goods and services there is no privacy no matter what you do. You're playing a game you cannot win since you game out your mom's vag. No one can prove me wrong either. It's called a BC and SS number. Good luck living life without using either.
130   RWSGFY   2022 Aug 31, 9:58am  

WookieMan says

NuttBoxer says


Although, if you use cash, I'd hope you also do not use their app to order coffee, order it from your phone in general, and hopefully you at least leave your phone in the car while buying.

What in the flying fuck would that do? They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it ...


Good point wrt utility bill: some water companies require a SSN (or ITIN) or "no soup for you". There is no way around it except trucking water in (and storing it where?).
131   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 10:49am  

RWSGFY says

How is this legal?


If you have a debt to someone, they have to take cash. "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."

But if you haven't received service yet, you have no debt, and they can make conditions on how you will pay.
132   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 11:02am  

mell says

Coffee, obviously as opposed to cigarettes, has been shown to prolong longevity in many studies, so it's healthy (withouts sugar). That being said, it's definitely not necessary. I like a good coffee, or 2 or 3.


I love a cup of coffee in the morning, maybe two but never three. I don't like the expense, and it's easy to overdo, but it's one of the joys of life for me.

Have to admit I like cigarettes too, but I don't actually buy any. I'll have one if other people are smoking and they offer.

I chewed nicotine gum for a year and a half but just gave that up. Was making me too twitchy. Nicotine itself is not particularly bad for you, and even has some benefits like reducing the risk of Parkinson's disease. And it increases mental focus for a while.
133   HeadSet   2022 Aug 31, 11:21am  

Patrick says


I love a cup of coffee in the morning

Do you drink it black? No? Then what you really like is hot milk and sugar. I say the same to my Bloke relatives that dilute that awesome tea they have in England.

Patrick says


Nicotine itself is not particularly bad for you

Nicotine is a chemical produced by certain plants to poison the bugs that feed off them. (Some bugs evolved immunity). That "increases mental focus" sounds like a cig giving one relief from nicotine craving to allow one the think normally.
134   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 11:44am  

I have a bit of milk or creme in in my coffee. Makes it easier to digest I think. And it literally makes it creamier.

I really like the smell of freshly ground beans, and the effect of the caffeine. I know it's a physiological trick, but it does make me more optimistic and energetic for a few hours when I hit it just right. Of course too much is a minor disaster, and interferes with sleep that night.

Caffeine also evolved as a pesticide, like nicotine. But that doesn't mean it's poisonous to humans in low doses.

I never got to the point with nicotine gum where I had any withdrawal from it. Just one or two pieces a day, and easy to give up with no problem.

If you don't believe me about the mental focus thing, you can prove it for yourself.

http://dengulenegl.dk/English/Nicotine.html
136   Onvacation   2022 Aug 31, 5:01pm  

Fiat currency is not money, but it works like it, for now.

Bitcoin is not money, but people make fiat on it, for now.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Are you willing to trade this for that?

People don't understand the value of real money. Things like cigarettes, chocolate, and bullets; real money.
137   Onvacation   2022 Aug 31, 5:04pm  

I'm sure they edited out all the people that said, "Hell yeah I want the silver bar. The coin shop over there will give me a couple grand$".
138   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:25pm  

WookieMan says

They know your location if you're using an app. 100%. Doesn't matter if you turn it "off" and pay cash. There is no "off" in phone apps and even computers. That's a feel good and you could never prove it was actually off. No way.


Which is why I said don't use an app..? Never mentioned turning anything off, that's all you. But yes, you can 100% guarantee something is off, just need the right level of control. For a cellphone you'd need something like Graphene OS. My laptop has HW shut-offs for speakers, mic, and wifi. But laptops have always been ahead due to amount of control easily available for those who choose to take it. Even when it comes to Windows OS, By using Pihole and running some powershell commands, I was able to neuter most of their data collection.

WookieMan says

Also, I'm not giving up, I'm realistic. Beating a dead horse here, but I've had to find property owners for a living. You're not hidden. Again, this is 100% fact. I'm done arguing it. You guys aren't some stealthy, special people using cash that is again 100% traceable. You have a SS card. You likely have a DL. You likely have a utility bill. A mortgage. Credit pull for rent. Your cash has a number on it no different than a credit card. Your face exist. You're living in la la land if you think you're being stealthy.


You start by saying you haven't given up, then proceed to tell everyone to give up. Make up your mind.
I don't own property. I use my social security almost never, because I don't live on credit. My DL doesn't have my real address. My utility bill doesn't have my real name. Again, no mortgage. Yes, they did pull my credit for rent, so as I've said before, if you're so right, should be easy to expose who I am. Feel free to.

WookieMan says

You guys do know the bank has the number for every bill you carry when you withdraw it? I'm talking the number on the bill. Unless you earn cash payment and don't use a bank, it's all tracked. Again 100%.


There isn't a single person on this forum, now or ever, who will be important enough to warrant that kind of tracking. That's like thinking they send a forensics team out for a stolen car.

WookieMan says

But if you buy goods and services there is no privacy no matter what you do.


My CSA's don't know who I am, pay with cash. My online purchases all use a fake name, and throw-away card. So do my utility bills.

You have an opinion, and a little experience, yet you parade yourself as an expert on the subject, seriously? Prove it, IDENTIFY ME. Should be trivial right? Until you can give us some concrete evidence, you have only theory. Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone.
139   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:38pm  

RWSGFY says

Good point wrt utility bill: some water companies require a SSN (or ITIN) or "no soup for you".


Internet/cable was able to get around this by signing up for auto-pay, then cancelling right away. Electric I did give a social, but not mine, and not someone else's(there is another option).
140   Patrick   2022 Aug 31, 5:42pm  

@NuttBoxer what is this other option?
141   Eric Holder   2022 Aug 31, 5:47pm  

NuttBoxer says


My CSA's don't know who I am, pay with cash. My online purchases all use a fake name, and throw-away card. So do my utility bills.

You have an opinion, and a little experience, yet you parade yourself as an expert on the subject, seriously? Prove it, IDENTIFY ME. Should be trivial right? Until you can give us some concrete evidence, you have only theory. Don't be a Fauci, be a Malone.


Eh? He can't identify you, but you can't identify him either. Proves nothing.
142   NuttBoxer   2022 Aug 31, 5:50pm  

There's a SS number that was created for a department store back in the 50's. It doesn't tie to any real person, and seems to fool most companies asking for it. DO NOT use with government, they will likely know it's a fake. But power companies aren't government. It's in Luna's book, and the book has a lot of other good tips and practical info, and it's pretty cheap. So I'd like to push some sales his way.

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