patrick.net

Patrick says

We should all really just start using old US silver coins with each other once again. They are still legal tender by law.

Fun to think about silver coins that way, and that may work to buy a fishing pole from your buddy. But ain't enough coins around to for all pay the mortgage, utilities, et al. Besides, most expect a mail or auto payment by check or credit card and not a bag of bullion delivered in person.

HeadSet says

Fun to think about silver coins that way, and that may work to buy a fishing pole from your buddy. But ain't enough coins around to for all pay the mortgage, utilities, et al. Besides, most expect a mail or auto payment by check or credit card and not a bag of bullion delivered in person.

What you mean is there isn't enough to equal all the fake wealth people have built for themselves using leverage and pretend assets. But what if we eliminate all assets and valuations that can only be paid in Monopoly money. Then we are left with what is real, and that can easily be bought and sold using real money. The value of gold and silver is specifically based on their limited growth and ability to be precisely weighed and measured. If you could produce them out of thin air, like fiat currency, they'd have the same value, zero.

Prices would naturally adjust to reflect whatever supply is currently available. But let's not forget the central bank vaults when we calculate that. Those vaults were built using theft and murder, and the money therein does not belong to them. I'm not a communist, so I will not advocate redistribution just because, but I'm sure there is a method to fairly introduce those money's into circulation. Read Griffin's plan. This is not an easy, or quick transition, but it is VERY realistic.

And as to toting around bags of coin, again, you're considering actual valuation once things settle. Remember prices used to be pennies and nickels, not twenties and hundreds. And you're forgetting the history of smith vaults, and the time honored tradition of checks, or the ability to collect with the physical need of having to.

Freedom and real wealth, or poverty and enslavement, those are the only choices we have.

HeadSet says

Patrick says

We should all really just start using old US silver coins with each other once again. They are still legal tender by law.

Fun to think about silver coins that way, and that may work to buy a fishing pole from your buddy. But ain't enough coins around to for all pay the mortgage, utilities, et al. Besides, most expect a mail or auto payment by check or credit card and not a bag of bullion delivered in person.

Just for fun, I want to point out that a (new) house cost about $5,000 in 1910. That's about 3,500 ounces of silver back then.

At today's prices for silver, that would work out to be 3,500 * $24/oz = $84,000.

But I don't want to argue about this that much. Precious metals have been manipulated for over 100 years, and they may be manipulated for 100 more.

I'm all for a metal based currency, as long as wages and salaries and private contracts of small worth (haircuts, toilet unclogging) are paid in coins by weight and purity, no bills - public or private banknotes prohibited.

Businesses are free to swap paper with each other, but anybody wanting to pay for a haircut or employ a delivery driver needs to pay them out in metal, no paper or digital banknotes from First Cleveland Bank OR the Federal Reserve.

Metal means metal. Otherwise, the rich, big institutions, and government hoard the coins and dole out paper, and periodically dishonor it, which is historically what happened.

HeadSet says

Besides, most expect a mail or auto payment by check or credit card and not a bag of bullion delivered in person.

OK, so we'll use gold for bigger purchases.

Most money is debt anyway, just a promise. The economy would function about the same with gold and silver currency, only the Fed would not be able to inflate it as easily. They could promise more silver and gold, but they couldn't deliver.

You never have money in the bank. The bank just has a debt to you, a debt it may default on. Or maybe the government will tell them to just keep your money because you disagreed with Pfizer about the vaxx.

AmericanKulak says

Metal means metal. Otherwise, the rich, big institutions, and government hoard the coins and dole out paper, and periodically dishonor it, which is historically what happened.

In a free market, which is the only place true money has ever existed, every business earns the right to be judged by their actions. No FDIC, no bailouts. The dishonest may profit for a short while, but greed always leads to collapse, and in a free market, jail. The problem is when you make laws forcing inferior money products to be accepted, as we now have with Federal reserve debt notes. Don't force people to take monopoly money, and real money will always win out.

BTW, if you so desired to start making or accepting payments this way, a couple of long-time investment gurus have made a tool for calculating gold/silver to fiat exchange rates for almost any well known coins:

https://silverandgoldaremoney.com/?source=patrick.net

I’m already on that. Moving to another state, after that starting new business.

Tyranny only ends when those faggots can’t control us. The fight won’t be easy, but I’m not surrendering.

NuttBoxer says

In a free market, which is the only place true money has ever existed, every business earns the right to be judged by their actions. No FDIC, no bailouts. The dishonest may profit for a short while, but greed always leads to collapse, and in a free market, jail. The problem is when you make laws forcing inferior money products to be accepted, as we now have with Federal reserve debt notes. Don't force people to take monopoly money, and real money will always win out.

Government sets weights and measures. This is just "You must sell gas by the gallon, and pay wages with metal coins, rounds, or bars: no paper or digital."

There's economic force: Big Employers and Banks get together and agree only to use banknotes to pay employees, never give them the metal. They whack up some of the profits during periodic defaults or devaluations.

I won't accept any currency system without this requirement as law.. Might as well just have the fiat and not bother with the metal. Open up a 19th Century newspaper and check the "Discount Rate" for Metal Banknotes. At least a fiat dollar is a fiat dollar in Cleveland or Boston, unlike 19th Private Metal Banknotes. "Oh, you have 100 ounces of silver on deposit at Cleveland Federal? We here at First Boston will give you 80 ounces for that note."

When metal resides with the individual, and distributed broadly, there will be liberty. If the metal all sticks to the top and everybody mostly has notes instead, Liberty will eventually be taken - or fraud will take place, and the latter will happen very, very quickly.

AmericanKulak says

"Oh, you have 100 ounces of silver on deposit at Cleveland Federal? We here at First Boston will give you 80 ounces for that note."

Exactly. They have to adjust for the probability of not getting paid back in real metal.

It can go the other way though. During the long reign of the Wisselbank in Amsterdam, their reputation was so sterling (pun intended) that people would actually pay slightly more for their notes than for the metal, because of the convenience factor. But eventually they defaulted too.

AmericanKulak says

Government sets weights and measures. This is just "You must sell gas by the gallon, and pay wages with metal coins, rounds, or bars: no paper or digital."

There's economic force: Big Employers and Banks get together and agree only to use banknotes to pay employees, never give them the metal. They whack up some of the profits during periodic defaults or devaluations.

I won't accept any currency system without this requirement as law.. Might as well just have the fiat and not bother with the metal. Open up a 19th Century newspaper and check the "Discount Rate" for Metal Banknotes. At least a fiat dollar is a fiat dollar in Cleveland or Boston, unlike 19th Private Metal Banknotes. "Oh, you have 100 ounces of silver on deposit at Cleveland Federal? We here at First Boston will give you 80 ounces for that note."

When metal resides with the individual, and distributed broadly, there will be liberty. If the metal all sticks to the top and everybody mostly...

The scenario your describing does not follow the Constitution. That is not how weights are set, that is not how money is exchanged. None of that is accurate to the system I described, or the existing laws already in place.

You can currently request to be paid in silver if you want. There's nothing stopping your or your employer from doing so. It's not "only use THIS measure", that's the problem, it's "You MUST accept these worthless fiat notes". That might seem like a fine distinction, but makes a HUGE difference. Forcing economies to accept bad money means the real money will never show it's face, regardless of whether it can be used or not. If I can get something of real value from my employer, but my bills can all be paid in worthless paper, why would I ever pass those coins to anyone else?

Patrick says

Exactly. They have to adjust for the probability of not getting paid back in real metal.

That only happens if you can be forced to accept an inferior payment. This is the principle that always backs all corrupt financial systems. A law forcing citizens to accept worthless mediums of exchange as payment.

Patrick says

It can go the other way though. During the long reign of the Wisselbank in Amsterdam, their reputation was so sterling (pun intended) that people would actually pay slightly more for their notes than for the metal, because of the convenience factor. But eventually they defaulted too.

Also true of the bank of Florence or Naples. Partly because of how good the bankers were at deciphering the exact value of any coin in circulation. But mainly because the bank always had 100% of depositors funds on hand, ALWAYS. It was not until they engaged in fractional reserve banking that their notes lost stature.

NuttBoxer says

The scenario your describing does not follow the Constitution. That is not how weights are set, that is not how money is exchanged. None of that is accurate to the system I described, or the existing laws already in place.

You can currently request to be paid in silver if you want. There's nothing stopping your or your employer from doing so. It's not "only use THIS measure", that's the problem, it's "You MUST accept these worthless fiat notes". That might seem like a fine distinction, but makes a HUGE difference. Forcing economies to accept bad money means the real money will never show it's face, regardless of whether it can be used or not. If I can get something of real value from my employer, but my bills can all be paid in worthless paper, why would I ever pass those coins to anyone else?

Experience has shown Banks or Governments are not to be trusted. And the Founding Fathers made the Constitution Amendable. Just like slavery (except for criminal punishment) can be prohibited, papernotes can be banned in certain circumstances - like for regular wages and small contracts, and metal required to be accepted for any and all purposes, public or private.

Also, why would pure silver coins be bad money? Paper or Digital Banknotes representing silver coins can easily be bad money, and it WILL be made into bad money, either by public or private actors.

Governments or Banks in control of paper or digital representations of the metal can and will devalue, defraud, or simply confiscate it. You'd have to go house to house to confiscate metallic currency, a huge cost in time and expense.

Do you want metallic coinage or not? I'm open to it, but I want the coins. No deal without this caveat. Let Wells Fargo and Lockheed Martin deal with paper.

No metallic based currency unless wages and small contracts must be executed in the actual coinage. Metal for the people! Banknotes for big institutions and overmighty actors (if they want). Let the bigshots only be able to screw over other bigshots.

AmericanKulak says

papernotes can be banned in certain circumstances - like for regular wages and small contracts, and metal required to be accepted for any and all purposes, public or private.

That is currently the case. But again you focus on banning the bad money, rather than just not forcing it's acceptance. You over-reach, and ask for more government, that you just said you don't trust, to keep sound policy in place. Think free market, and just eliminate the law that forces accepting Federal debt notes, the rest will work itself out, and quickly.

AmericanKulak says

Also, why would pure silver coins be bad money?

Too malleable? I never said this, so not sure.

AmericanKulak says

Governments or Banks in control of paper or digital representations of the metal can and will devalue, defraud, or simply confiscate it.

Government doesn't have that right. As for the banks, don't use the bad ones.

NuttBoxer says

AmericanKulak says

Governments or Banks in control of paper or digital representations of the metal can and will devalue, defraud, or simply confiscate it.

Government doesn't have that right. As for the banks, don't use the bad ones.

So don't use banks then. Got it.

https://rumble.com/vwcog7-russia-is-building-a-parallel-world.html?source=patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

Government doesn't have that right. As for the banks, don't use the bad ones.

All banks have pressures they eventually succumb to because of the nature of fractional reserve banking.

Parallel economy is way to go. They cannot cancel what they don’t control. McDonalds just learned the hard way

NuttBoxer says

AmericanKulak says

You can currently request to be paid in silver if you want. There's nothing stopping your or your employer from doing so. It's not "only use THIS measure", that's the problem, it's "You MUST accept these worthless fiat notes".

If you’re thinking of how a dollar bill says “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” that means if you’re in debt then your creditor must accept federal reserve notes as payment. But there’s nothing to keep someone from insisting on an arbitrary type of payment up front.

Right, I think it's true that if you get served food and decide to pay with cash, they have to take the cash.

But on the other hand, they could demand your credit card first and refuse to serve you if you don't give it.

Latest Torba Tantrum - he's suing Boningo, though apparent Boningo came up with the idea AND the website and copyright to "Parallel Society" months before Torba.

Patrick says

So far: Tomatoes, Green Bunching Onions, Sunflowers (oil), Borage, Cukes. Also a cheap seed press is on my list.

AmericanKulak says

All banks have pressures they eventually succumb to because of the nature of fractional reserve banking.

Yep. The system is skewed to favor leverage over fiscal responsibility. If you are honest, you're penalized, if you're dishonest, you're bailed out. As long as your bank is from New York.

Undoctored says

If you’re thinking of how a dollar bill says “this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private” that means if you’re in debt then your creditor must accept federal reserve notes as payment. But there’s nothing to keep someone from insisting on an arbitrary type of payment up front.

It has nothing to do with the individual being in debt. It denotes the law that must always accompany bad money. Otherwise no one would ever use or accept them as they're are worthless. Bad money always chases out good.

AmericanKulak says

cheap seed press

To make oil I assume. Never used one. Never had borage either.

I just tried buckwheat on the advice of a Russian friend. It's got an odd smell to it, but it's kind of addictive and seems to be very good for you. I might plant some.

https://notthebee.com/article/this-is-a-real-billboard-in-oregon-imploring-people-to-stop-having-kids-and-its-just-another-logical-step-in-the-culture-of-death?source=patrick.net

If the rest of us build a parallel culture that stresses having children, the woke will eventually die out and only sane people will remain.

The Amish and the orthodox Jews are already quite busy at it.

The only risk then being that the woke will keep trying to indoctrinate your children in schools, which is why you should closely monitor the curriculum in your school, and pull your children out if they are doing that.

Patrick says

https://notthebee.com/article/this-is-a-real-billboard-in-oregon-imploring-people-to-stop-having-kids-and-its-just-another-logical-step-in-the-culture-of-death?source=patrick.net

If the rest of us build a parallel culture that stresses having children, the woke will eventually die out and only sane people will remain.

The Amish and the orthodox Jews are already quite busy at it.

The only risk then being that the woke will keep trying to indoctrinate your children in schools, which is why you should closely monitor the curriculum in your school, and pull your children out if they are doing that.

i really want to find out who paid for that billboard, money is easy to track down, someone has to make payments and it has to come out of some account. i'm thinking of hiring a private investigator to track that shit down.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

i really want to find out who paid for that billboard, money is easy to track down, someone has to make payments and it has to come out of some account. i'm thinking of hiring a private investigator to track that shit down.

Not hard to find them.

https://www.stophavingkids.org/?source=patrick.net

The pictures of the people in the org are amusing. Typical woke women and men.

richwicks says

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

i really want to find out who paid for that billboard, money is easy to track down, someone has to make payments and it has to come out of some account. i'm thinking of hiring a private investigator to track that shit down.

Not hard to find them.

https://www.stophavingkids.org/?source=patrick.net

The pictures of the people in the org are amusing. Typical woke women and men.

I think those are the front, someone very rich usually funds shit like that from the top. A lot of these groups aren't self funded, that's my point.

richwicks says

Typical woke women and men.

How dare you assume their gender!