patrick.net

It's really hard. One thing that sort of works for me - and I am no Master by any means - is to pick my battles. I say "no", if asked I give reasons, but the answer is still NO.

I've made great strides in Financial Control and Sanity, however. Even though I give her entirely too much/month, I've been sticking to it.

Women are geared to resource distribution and most are really bad about squirreling things away for later... some are amazing but most are really bad at it. Another reason why Globohomo wants women in control.

Onvacation says

Ya want to expand on this idea a little?

Sounds interesting.

You can't easily walk away/ghost. It's frame against frame until someone blinks. You better hope that despite her bluster, she has to admit to herself that she (and your children) are better with you than without you.

AmericanKulak says

It's really hard. One thing that sort of works for me - and I am no Master by any means - is to pick my battles. I say "no", if asked I give reasons, but the answer is still NO.

I got tired of the battles, the exchequer was overtaxed, so I decided to quit the colony.

I discovered substitute goods, and now have more butter and my guns are getting buttered. It's also a shitload more peaceful and quieter.

Booger says

From the piece:

The first time Butler met Brodak, she was in jail. They’d connected over Facebook.

...

She had waist-length hair, hazel-blue eyes, cherubic cheeks. They made a date.

It gets worse. Bipolar, alleged sexual abuse (sometimes they're nuts from the beginning and often that's BS too), etc.

Well, I hope she was at least bisexual and he got some MFF out of it. But you don't marry that shit.

A divorce lawyer in NYC was intereviewed on YouTube; it was interesting to hear his views on the matter.
Firstly, without a prenup you are doomed; it's never going to be fair to the man if there's a divorce.
Successful marriages are extremely rare; 56% + end in divorce, mostly initiated by the woman.
If this were any other legal contract, it would fit the definintion of negligence by the person who wrote it.

Personally I know two guys who are 1. over 70 2. Married to crazy women who either a. drink b. popped pills c. used cocaine 3. Both are accused of abusing the wife who called the cops and threw them out.

They are having a pretty stressful fucked up retirement; they should be having fun in their "golden years" but instead they're dealing with the harpies they foolishly married.

If you expect a woman to complete her part of the "marriage contract" you probably have low expectations of her.

clambo says

Successful marriages are extremely rare; 56% + end in divorce, mostly initiated by the woman.

It's bad, but that's 56% of all marriages.

First marriages last better than subsequent marriages, on average.

Another factoid is divorced guys tend to remarry quickly.

I believe guys who get married today are a type; they're trying to please someone, while subjugating their own needs and wants.

I don't have that personality trait, rather the opposite.

A girl was pissed off and jealously said I was in love with this other girl; I said the person whom I love is the one in the mirror when I brush my teeth.

Patrick says

First marriages last better than subsequent marriages, on average.

Only a 40% chance of the parachute not opening, losing half your money, daily access to any kids, and more! C'mon guys, take a risk!

Keep in mind that stat is almost a decade old, pre-COVID and pre-Millennial (large group) marriage peak. And with record low unmarrieds.

David's Bridal is now in their second bankruptcy in a decade and wedding dress sales in general are tanking. Given the size of the Millennial Generation, they should be booming with profits as Millie gals (with the peak birth years 1988-1993) are in the prime (1st or 2nd) marriage age (30s) all things being equal.

The latest marriage rate is on lower than that during the Panic of 1892 and the Great Depression; the lowest in US recorded history.

Nobody wants to wife up a tinderella who can't cook, huge debts, and thinks her mere presence is the "Table".

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

See how easy it is. We all have a choice. Why not make a choice to marry better?

Eman says

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

Disagree here.

It's not like the old days when you could look at her parents, sisters, etc. In fact these days, esp post 1980s, father isn't really around. Many millies are the product of single moms or "Just not Haaaaaaaaaaaappy Anymore" no-fault divorced women.

Women are fantastic actresses. Men have complained since the 1960s that before the ring was on, the panties were off, but once the ring went on, the panties stay up, especially after the first child. The "Penny in the jar" or "Coffee Bean in the cup" stories predate the sex rev, too.

The supply of decent potential wives is grossly exceeded by demand.

It'll probably take one more generation for reality to set in societally, just like it did during the urbanization process vs. number of children.

Agree to disagree. I’m a problem solver. I’m in the biz of making money by solving problem. I don’t blame on circumstances.

Eman says

Agree to disagree. I’m a problem solver. I’m in the biz of making money by solving problem. I don’t blame on circumstances.

There's a solution: Repeal 19th and no-fault divorce. And especially welfare for single hos.

"It can't possibly be that since we radically altered family law in this country, that divorce skyrocketed! Just a coinky-dinky! And in every single Western country, the same thing happened. The last countries to experience it... were the last countries to abandon the pre 1960s style laws. Also coincidence."

I guarantee you male nature hasn't changed, so mannity man up doesn't work with entitlement princesses when female deliverables (Sex, food, etc.) are not legally enforceable but the man's deliverables (Provision, protection) are, and you can't out niceguy/nicehubby/alpha government.

Another creative solution is to legalize prostitution.

It's not like it'll be bad for morals given all the onlyfans, instathots, tinderellas, and of course transgender and LGBTQ propaganda now in Elementary School.

It might create a wave of differential, where after a short time, society turns 180 degrees.

AmericanKulak says

There's a solution: Repeal 19th and no-fault divorce. And especially welfare for single hos.

I think repealing the 19th amendment is too unlikely at this point. Changing divorce law seems an attainable goal. It only has to be done in one state. Here's what might work:

Those who are getting married enter into a legally binding contract for life. The state might have some minimum provisions that relate to the children and property. The parties might agree to additional terms which are added to the contract. This is the equivalent of a pre-nuptial agreement, but it would have the same weight as law. It could not be contested. The marriage contract must have clauses for what would happen in case of breach of contract.

Reasons for divorce:
- One of the spouses can sue the other for breach of contract. If the allegations prove to be true, the marriage is dissolved and damages are awarded according the breach of contract clauses.
- One spouse decided to leave. The person in confirming his or her intention to breach the contract, the marriage is dissolved and damages are awarded according the breach of contract clauses.

No-fault divorce would not be an option, though I don't know how to handle the case in which both spouses are in breach of contract.

Agreed.

And bring back Crim Con/Alienation of Affection in all 50 states, another traditional common law tort for millenium that has been Prog'd away.

Here's a libertarian idea: Get the state out of it. The state's only job is to record the contract and only nullify the obvious bad shit that's non-enforceable in any contract, like one party can beat the other to death or commit things that would legally be violent felonies (but not simple assault! A whack on the buns with no bruises balances man's superior strength for woman's superior manipulation! Expecting an average man to out manipulate an average woman is unrealistic given what we know of human nature. It was also normal during 2000 years of Christendom and for Roman-Greek Classic Pagan Era, too. 100% Western. Only in the past half-century or a little more was any spanks by the man an absolute no-no. As late as the 60s, McClintock or his son-in-law could redden some sassy buttocks to the townfolk - and audience - laughter, who knew that a dramatic woman needed a whack on the petticoats once in a while).

Another great advantage of Criminal Conversation (basically adulterous conversation) is that the outcome of civil suits is public record.

So if a woman who was married once before was found culpable of sexting men not their husband while married, and had to pony up damages to her ex-husband, a smart groom would run a quick records search and find out she's been unfaithful before. Or vice-versa.

There is one and maybe just one idea in Mexico which would be useful to adopt in the USA regarding marriage.

When you get married in Mexico you can select 1. community property rules apply 2. separate property rules apply.

#2 is called "bienes separados". You always own your shit and she can't claim ownership of it later when things go south.

I'm probably too vocal on this subject.

clambo says

There is one and maybe just one idea in Mexico which would be useful to adpot in the USA regarding marriage.

When you get married in Mexico you can select 1. community property rules apply 2. separate property rules apply.

#2 is called "bienes separados". You always own your shit and she can't claim ownership of it later when things go south.

I'm probably too vocal on this subject.

We have this in the US too. What you own before marriage is yours. What you own during marriage is community property.

Child support and alimony is a different topic. It’s BS to me, but who am I to say.

AK, regarding get the state out of it: look up Alabama. They now only record marriage certificates/contracts, the government has been removed from the contract piece by no longer requiring “licenses.” This is a great step forward and other states should replicate.

AmericanKulak says

Eman says

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

Disagree here.

It's your right to disagree. I agree with you on a lot here, but this is patently false. You have a choice in who you agree to partner with. You're not forced. It's your choice and you have to own it. It's not difficult to tuck it or fuck it. Most guys take the fuck it route and get with shitty chicks.

My fall back chicks are all amazing women. Not losers. Keep their legs closed. I still talk to them and would never stray from my wife. It's not difficult to find a decent woman and be a decent dude. Sure you're looking for a 1 in 10 that's attractive and not a cunt, but they're easy to find if you don't let your dick get in the way.

Eman says

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

See how easy it is. We all have a choice. Why not make a choice to marry better?

Cmon you stated you entered the RE business to never have to work full time again and it made you wealthy. How is your wife working then so you don't have to? It would seem you could pay all bills no matter what and then some anyways.

mell says

Eman says

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

See how easy it is. We all have a choice. Why not make a choice to marry better?

Cmon you stated you entered the RE business to never have to work full time again and it made you wealthy. How is your wife working then so you don't have to? It would seem you could pay all bills no matter what and then some anyways.

She had to support me while I was making the transition. Someone had to bring home the bacon during those years.

Now, she works because it’s flexible and she can do whatever she wants while keeping the health benefits for the family. If her boss pisses her off, her boss can have her job back. It’s a great to be in a position of strength. 😂

WookieMan says

AmericanKulak says

Eman says

Simple answer is to “marry better.” My wife works so I don’t have to. If there’s next life, I want to marry her again.

Disagree here.

It's your right to disagree. I agree with you on a lot here, but this is patently false. You have a choice in who you agree to partner with. You're not forced. It's your choice and you have to own it. It's not difficult to tuck it or fuck it. Most guys take the fuck it route and get with shitty chicks.

My fall back chicks are all amazing women. Not losers. Keep their legs closed. I still talk to them and would never stray from my wife. It's not difficult to find a decent woman and be a decent dude. Sure you're looking for a 1 in 10 that's attractive and not a cunt, but they're easy to find if you don't let your dick get in the way.

That's not the point. The point is that if your wife decides she's done the "laws" will allow her to take you to the cleaners, unless she makes significantly more, in which case she will likely take the kids from you and have no legal problems with it. Opportunity makes thieves. Also as much as I want to believe that some married perfect wives this never held true when I met them. Good if you're on that train though, wish it holds a lifetime ;) I'm still advocating marriage if you want kids, but there are huge tradeoffs people should be aware of.

Eman says

She had to support me while I was making the transition. Someone had to bring home the bacon during those years.

Now, she works because it’s flexible and she can do whatever she wants while keeping the health benefits for the family. If her boss pisses her off, her boss can have her job back. It’s a great to be in a position of strength. 😂

Ok that's what I thought, that makes sense. That's a rare find. But she got rewarded now. The community property during marriage is something I would like to see modified, similar to child support. You have tax returns for all these years and a list of assets, it should go to whomever is on the title and proportionally based on money earned. Of course child reading should be taken into account at going rates as well. But if both share childrearing 50% and one brings home 1 million per year additionally and the other one 50k, then 50/50 split on divorce is totally bogus and incentivizes divorce.

Based on her and her parents and siblings, I don’t expect it to happen. If it happens and she takes me to the cleaners, I’m totally okay with it. I know I can make it back with another lady who is willing to support me while I’m rebuilding. 😂

Our current legal is unfair to men, but it is what it is. Can’t change it. Have to vote out all the current politicians and rebuild the system. I don’t see the chance of it happening so just do what we can control.

You can't change the laws but you can write a contact for the female to sign to avoid the laws.

Eman I wasn't clear enough; in Mexico you can choose to avoid the community property aspect of marriage.

Even if you have 'written agreements', it doesn't protect you from the rapacity of the legal process itself, or even necessarily the outcome. All it does is give you a gauge about how things might go once you are in the meat grinder. It doesn't avoid the meat grinder.

Contracts can be as endlessly litigated as lack of contracts, and you will wind up in a similar spot where you will have to negotiate concessions just to escape the exhaustion of the legal process. All a contract does is give you a foundation for litigation, it doesn't obviate litigation if you have a motivated adversary (hysterical wife fucking the brains out of a divorce attorney?).

For most ordinary people, it is the legal process itself that takes the marital resources. They just have to inflame one of the partners into the endless fight.

mell says

The point is that if your wife decides she's done the "laws" will allow her to take you to the cleaners, unless she makes significantly more, in which case she will likely take the kids from you and have no legal problems with it.

I'm surprised by the lack of legal knowledge here on patnet on many levels. My wife wouldn't (won't) get a dime from me. Most men become pussies in divorce. Not cut throat. Don't know law. Don't know their rights.

Most men are dumb asses and think they need to cut the cable and give the woman everything. Nope. Guys gotta learn. I know for a fact that my wife would owe me $6-7k/mo. I make and have made as much and would owe her nothing. I have no interest in divorce and am no where near that level, but if you get to that level you can blame the pussies that didn't fight or know their rights in divorce. Women got a lot of dudes by the balls and the dudes are fucking retarded.

Ceffer says

Even if you have 'written agreements', it doesn't protect you from the rapacity of the legal process itself, or even necessarily the outcome. All it does is give you a gauge about how things might go once you are in the meat grinder. It doesn't avoid the meat grinder.

California throws out almost 50% of pre-nups.

"Ooh, I'm was just a poor dumb 31-year old Master's Degree from UCLA holder, yer honor. I was coerced into signing!" - California Girls.

mell says

That's not the point. The point is that if your wife decides she's done the "laws" will allow her to take you to the cleaners, unless she makes significantly more, in which case she will likely take the kids from you and have no legal problems with it. Opportunity makes thieves. Also as much as I want to believe that some married perfect wives this never held true when I met them. Good if you're on that train though, wish it holds a lifetime ;) I'm still advocating marriage if you want kids, but there are huge tradeoffs people should be aware of.

Thanks Mell for bringing it home!

You're at her mercy. The gal you Married 10 years ago might Eat.Love.Pray herself into Exploring and Finding Herself Media and Mentality.

To get back in the weeds for a minute:
There's a viral one now about a chick from rural Idaho, not bad looking, blonde, etc. about how all she wanted in her early 20s was to be a wife on a farm, eventually have kids, etc. and she got it. Married a dude with a farm in her early 20s. About 30 she decided she DIDNT want kids, DIDNT want to live on a farm and be a farmwife, but to party hardy like she did before she was married and explore and discover and find herself in lots of booze and on many strange cocks. So she divorced his ass to get back on the Cock Carousel around 30.

Guess how she feels now at 39? "Boo hoo hoo, I should have stayed married and had kids." Much of that is probably her fading looks and the dwindling supply of men near her age who want a party girl with increasing wrinkles and female pattern baldness and this is her cope.

Anyway, point is here's a nice, rural Idaho chick with a religious upbringing and she's shifted gears to completely different lifestyles 3 times in her adult life.

TikTok is FULL of these. Fuck, there are women who filed for nofault a few months ago whinging about having to take out the trash and not being able to have a Sugar Daddy Husband do all the work and bring in all the money, while they get to live like Single Women. That's what many women really want, play the pretty princess sometimes, but have Sugar Daddy to pay for and help with kids so she can look like Supermom when that suits her. That's why the answer to "Open Marriage" requests the Media is hyping and the gals are making is "Great, go pack your stuff. You can come over Friday between 8-11PM". That's not what they want, they want the reliable guy to pay the bills, dry their tears, and play fetch, while they bang Chad on the side.

"Women have a right to change their mind!"

The issue is married men have no protection against that.

I don't have the video but it's out there.

You are never 'protected' from lawyers (conflict tax collectors whose motive is to keep you in conflict), incessant lawfare, or crooked Kommie judges (apparently rampant in Family Law).

WookieMan says

My wife wouldn't (won't) get a dime from me. Most men become pussies in divorce. Not cut throat. Don't know law. Don't know their rights.

Lol I wouldn't try that. Doubt the great state of IL has you covered but any state with community property will take half of you. And even if they don't you need ironclad prenups. Reminds me of the best Tyson quote ever: "everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face." Or so ;)

Ceffer says

You are never 'protected' from lawyers (conflict tax collectors whose motive is to keep you in conflict), incessant lawfare, or crooked Kommie judges (apparently rampant in Family Law).

Yep

AmericanKulak says

Guess how she feels now at 39? "Boo hoo hoo, I should have stayed married and had kids." Much of that is probably her fading

Right, the tragedy is it often destroys 2 lives, their own and the ex. Government disincentives so many presumably "bad" things. But they almost prompte divorce. It should be a last resort imo in case of violence or other unfitness or otherwise the divorcing party should get nothing for it.

Ceffer says

You are never 'protected' from lawyers (conflict tax collectors whose motive is to keep you in conflict), incessant lawfare, or crooked Kommie judges (apparently rampant in Family Law).

This is it.

This is where the difference is between TrueTrads and FauxTrads: The latter thinks you just need to "Choose better, bro" (ignoring the fact that Women are notoriously changeable... "she's never wrong, she just changes her mind" as the old song goes) and that a fella can Mannity Man Uppity Uppity out of every difficulty of a woman changing her mind. They ignore what happened to Crowder, Tom Brady, Billy Joel, etc. etc. as well as dozens of men they've known in life because their operating rubic can't encapsulate it.

Ignoring the whole "Coffee Bean/Penny in the Jar" wisdom of the ages, which I first heard from a WW2 vet in the 90s, and he heard it from his dad who was born in the 19th Century.

In the end, the changeable emotional one can do as she pleases if the Law allows her. Change the Laws!

Old Saw: "Women marry men thinking the men will change and the women will be the instrument, but men don't. Men marry women thinking they will never change, but they do, not always for the better."

Fact is, with all the clamor for 'absolute honesty' (sucker punching for emotional turmoil), an absurdity flogged for relationship health, especially by fake media, women tend to be purposely quite the artificial object manipulating male fantasy to achieve the contractual cock cage. I think biologic narcissism makes women inherently dishonest and manipulative, although you might meet an occasional straight shooter (prolly lesbian).

AmericanKulak says

In the end, the changeable emotional one can do as she pleases if the Law allows her. Change the Laws!

In fact just adding the government into the mix by opening a court case with the agencies can add so much overhead and pain/conflict to ones new life that it will break many. Advise balls of steel...

Present laws do not clearly define the obligations of people getting married. Those who get married are then subject to the whims of the family court when one of the spouses decides to divorce.

I think that Alabama simply records the marriage, and gives it legal status, but it does not record the marriage contract. I say change the laws that in order to marry the two parties must sign a contract in which they each commit to certain obligations. The law would allow for divorce only if the one seeking divorce can prove that his spouse has breached the marriage contract. Damages would be awarded strictly according to the marriage contract.

Sure, some people will still take advantage of the legal systems and try to screw their soon-to-be-exes, but for most people this will be a vast improvement. Over time a few standard contracts will develop and people will chose according to their values. This wouldn't make marriage easier, but it would reduce frivolous divorces.

Should there be an effort to make such legal changes, I don't see why it wouldn't appeal to people all over the political spectrum. For those who are interested, they can still have no-fault divorces by making it easy to breach the contract. Some can agree to have equal rights and responsibilities with their spouses. Other can contract for a traditional marriage in which the man owns all the community property, requires the woman to live with him, and is the final authority to make choices for the children.

Evolution required women to develop skills of seduction, guile, subterfuge, backstabbing, stealing, lying, and other behaviors because of her biological goals.

1. Secure resources sufficient to survive gestation and nursing a baby (estimated over 1 million kcals). She will find a "provider". She may use all kinds of subterfuge to achieve this, and the provider's needs are not the priority. All females have this instinct deep down; when angry they will always say "you fucked me" if they are asked to pay for something once.

2. Find the source of DNA which will provide the most robust offspring; this is not the same person as the "provider". Thus, women are attracted instinctively to "bad boys." So, if you are the unlucky "provider", you can fully expect she will fuck some other guy(s) behind your back if she is motivated.
Typically they like to seek out "revenge fucks"; she lets a random guy fuck her because you argued and she wants to pay you back.

I have some amazing stories but I'll stop here. Don't expect a female to act against her instincts, you'll be disappointed.