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Vaccine Roulette Part 3 - Including a patient who came back for a second bite at the apple after experiencing adverse events following both dose 1 & dose 2
Dose 1 Severe Adverse Event, Dose 2...? You'll have to get jabbed with Dose 2 to find out

Ashmedai
16 hr ago

Welcome to the Post-Nuremberg Ethical Apocalypse
This is the third installment of case reports of vaccine injured patients receiving another dose nonetheless.

Crowdsourcing request: what are the steps in the conversion process from true believer to vaccine abolitionist?
Our work gets easier if we understand, at a granular level, the worldview of the people we are trying to convert

If a parent witnesses a vaccine injury first-hand they often convert fairly quickly from true believer to vaccine abolitionist (although even in that case I believe that there are several steps in the process including: denial, dissonance, initial research, rigorous research, anger, and evangelical abolitionism).

But what are the steps in the conversion process for people who have not witnessed vaccine injury first-hand? I’ve been wanting to figure this out for several years now and it’s surprisingly difficult. ...

Level: -7

Thought-terminating cliché: “No one has ever been injured by a vaccine.”

Commentary: Absolutes are pretty easy to counter. At this step one just has to get them to admit the possibility of some injury.

Question to help them move up: “What can you tell me about the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program?”

Level: -6

Thought-terminating cliché: “Okay yeah sure, bad things happen occasionally. But it’s one in a million and the benefits vastly outweigh the harms.”

Commentary: Here the person admits the possibility of some injury but makes up a number so that it remains virtually impossible in their mind.

Question to help them move up: “Have you noticed the rise in chronic illness in children? When we were growing up no one had peanut allergies or required Epi pens. Today it seems that most children are dealing with something — asthma, allergies, autoimmune disorders, eczema, diabetes. Why do you think that is?”

Level: -5

Thought-terminating cliché: “It’s just better awareness — we’re better at detecting things these days — and probably too much screen time, video games, and junk food.”

Commentary: This one is fascinating. It’s a variation on the Candide/Pollyanna view that “this is the best of all possible worlds.” The claim is that there is no problem, it’s just that we are too sensitive, too empathetic, too good.

Question to help them move up: “From what I’ve read, over half of all kids are chronically ill. Do you really think that our parents’ generation just did not notice a problem that large? I agree that screen time and junk food contribute to the problem. Do you think there might be additional factors or do you think those are sufficient to explain the entire phenomenon?”

Level: -4

Thought-terminating cliché: “Well I imagine pesticides probably don’t help. I don’t know what I think of Roundup. However, the government would never allow them to sell it at Home Depot if it was actually bad for us. In sufficient quantities, I guess anything can cause cancer.”

Commentary: This is a child-like view that government is Santa Claus and is here to help us. Also, when someone has not really thought things through, there are many internal contradictions in how they describe their views.

Question to help them move up: “Have you researched the pesticide, Atrazine? How do you think it got approved? Did you know that the vaccines on the childhood schedule have liability protection? You literally cannot sue the company if something goes wrong. What incentives do companies have to improve product safety if they have liability protection?”

Level: -3

Thought-terminating cliché: “They would never do that to us. Doctors and scientists have a lot to lose. We owe them a debt of gratitude.”

Commentary: This is an “argument from authority” — a common logical fallacy. It’s the corporate version of the “government loves us” argument above.

Question to help them move up: “How did the thalidomide disaster (1957-1961) happen? What about the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment (1932-1972)? Have you ever seen a drug rep. inside your doctor’s office? How do financial conflicts of interest impact decision making?”

Level: -2

Thought-terminating cliché: “No system is perfect but I don’t think vaccines are as dangerous as you think they are.”

Commentary: This is a sort of bargaining with reality. They don’t know the numbers but they are desperately trying to stay in the cocoon of ignorance.

Question to help them move up: “Have you ever met the parents of a vaccine injured child? Do you want me to introduce you to some? If I invited you to a conference on this topic would you join me and listen to the speakers with an open mind?”

Level: -1

Thought-terminating cliché: “Okay, yeah, there are harms, and those are tragic. But the benefits are so enormous. Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives over the last 100 years.”

Commentary: This is a Fairyland Risk/Benefit Argument that is not based on any actual study, it’s just clichés and wishful thinking. It represents someone clinging to the shore of comfortable lies before setting sail for the truth.

Question to help them move up: “If I brought you a book on this topic would you be willing to read it and give me your thoughts?” [And then give them Dissolving Illusions, Turtles All the Way Down, Unvaccinated, or Miller’s Review of Critical Vaccine Safety Studies.]

Level: 0

Worldview: “I don’t like the CDC’s childhood vaccine schedule. It’s too many, too soon. But some vaccines are necessary. We’re going to go with an alternative vaccine schedule.”

Commentary: This is a great start and should be highly praised. But there is still no science here — just a different bargain with a system that is fundamentally flawed.

Question to help them move up: “I’m so glad that you are avoiding some of these vaccines. But how do you calculate the risk from each particular vaccine vs. the risk from the disease itself? Did you know that none of the vaccines on the U.S. schedule were tested against an inert saline placebo? If I gave you an article on this topic would you be willing to read it and share your thoughts?” [And then, if they are agreeable, give them the 2018 ICAN Letter to HHS or direct them to my article, “Why I’m an Abolitionist.”]

As someone is beginning to see the truth, we should invite them to subscribe to The Defender and watch The Highwire. You can also invite someone to your house for a movie night to watch Vaxxed, Vaxxed II, 1986 The Act, or any of your other favorite medical freedom movies.

Level: +1

Worldview: “I think I’m ready to stop vaccinating my kid, but how do I protect him/her from disease and what do I do if s/he gets sick?”

Commentary: When one disconnects from the Pharma Death Cult Society there is a period of transition as one learns about the parallel society of alternative medicine. We should do everything we can to support this transition and help people to find connections with their new tribe.

Question to help them move up: “Yes we use allopathic medicine for emergencies — broken bones and that sort of thing. But we find that functional and integrative medical doctors are so much better for everything else. This is a fantastic time to find alternative providers who are a good fit for your values.” [And then you can share names of healers who you like. Jim Meehan, James Neuenschwander, and Larry Palevsky are beloved doctors in the movement. For anything Covid-related, FLCCC is doing brilliant work. I’m also a huge fan of the work of Dr. David Brownstein and the Health & Wellness books published by Chelsea Green.]

Level: +2

Worldview: “I’ve had it with the corruption and lies of the pharmaceutical industry and the government. But there is nothing that we can do — they are so powerful.”

Commentary: Even once people come over to our side there is still a learned-helplessness that must be overcome.

Question to help them move up: “Corrupt systems are brittle and they can fall apart quickly. There are so many groups working on this — state medical freedom groups, ICAN, Stand for Health Freedom, CHD, NVIC. They would all welcome your involvement and support.”

Level: +3

Worldview: “This is a genocide. How do we stop it?”

Commentary: This is the reality, the red pill. If we are to survive as a species, we must act.

Reply: “Welcome to the revolution. We’ve been waiting for you. The messed up system that we are all working to overthrow is centralized. We are decentralized. So what are your talents? And how can you best apply your creativity and wisdom to overthrowing the system? Let’s freakin’ go!!!!! 🙌”

John Smith
Nov 16
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edited Nov 16
Liked by Toby Rogers
This is very well structured, Toby, and is a great reference for the typical (covid) vaccine apologists, at least on the philosophical debate level.

As for your question, I have had no success with respect to changing anyone's mind, or even making any headway at all.

I think it's even more difficult now because the entire covid vaccine has been misleadingly politicized by the media. So people who have certain political identities, have grafted on the covid vaccine adherence as part of those identities.

So if you're arguing against the vaccine, they see it as you arguing against their very own conception as a person.

It's even taken on a religious quality, where it's part of the secular religion of being a good person. They obviously want to remain perceived as a good person by their peers. Criticizing the vax is thus ego suicide to their political identity and ethical identity.

Therefore it's something they are going to go to absurd lengths to avoid. It can explain why you will show a case study showing the most horrific reaction to the covid vaccine, such as this one https://archive.ph/7Ph9Z and they will pretend it doesn't exist. Pretending it never happened is less painful than having to reconceive themselves as a person and contemplate how they have been duped by the people they thought had their best interests in mind.

Because people in Florida felt relaxed, proud and confident, and because they had never been held indoors against their will, told where to stand, stripped of their holidays by the state, or forced into submitting to poisonous unchosen injections, there was a rhythm to social life there still. People from all walks of life chatted away with one another; the lady who wrapped up the sandals I bought chatted away with me, she chatted with all who come in; the chiropractor I visited chatted away with his customers, the salad shop workers chatted with the people who dropped off the bagels, the lady moving her grocery cart around me made a jolly, friendly remark. All this complexity took place in a peaceful, almost measurable rhythm. ...

I have felt that something is now discordant, jarring, in how we in the “lockdown” states relate to each other post 2022. The contrast with Florida showed me what it is: we in the rest of America have had our community rhythms broken off; silenced.

Now, as we start up our lives again, our interactions are tentative, awkward, erratic. Do we chat with the checkout girl? Do we not, as she is just trying to breathe behind her mask? Did she get out of the habit of chatting, if unmasked now? Do we drop in on a friend? Or do we zoom now forever? Do we hug, shake hands, not hug, not shake hands?

Or do we never again just embrace, just kiss, just stop by?

It’s all smashed to smithereens.

@plaforscience
This may help you understand why Covidians reached such an acceptance and even enthusiast promotion of inhuman restrictions; even now, once they acknowledge the strong proof against most of them, both for being useless and for collateral damage they bring

The Slippery Slope

The powers that be did a lot of research on what messaging created the best compliance with taking the jabs. I believe guilt messaging was the one that won out, so it meant communicating how you needed this product to protect other vulnerable members of your family. Although employee mandates pushed many people into getting the Covid “vaccine,” family pressure played at least as much, if not a larger role. How many elderly mothers hinted that they wouldn’t be able to see their adult children at Thanksgiving unless they got the vaccine? How many brothers and sisters tried to convince their family members that they and their family all got safe and effective and were feeling great?

Think about the consequences of that if the pressured person died suddenly. Would that family member ever be able to reconcile the guilt if they had pressured others to take it? Some of the reason that the jabbed as a group seem unwilling to see the carnage the Covid vaccines have created is because they can’t live with themselves if they were the cheerleaders for this genetic slurry. It would force them to accept guilt for having caused the death and injury of loved ones.

Your moment of Zen

Sometimes the barriers to freedom are only in our minds.

@_B___S
According to his owner, "He constantly thinks the screen door is closed, so we have to pretend to open it for him to come inside."

TFish
3 min ago
The imaginary door is a perfect metaphor for now.

The pharma-medical control over the minds of people, and how they think about health, is exactly the same thing.

People have been brainwashed and taught to distrust their own minds and bodies to such a profound degree: taught to believe in the necessity of drugs—pills and injections—over caring for one’s self. This is why some people continue to wear masks and take the jabs, why they swallowed the narrative uncritically.

https://tobyrogers.substack.com/p/thinking-points-november-22-2022

plaforscience
This may help you understand why Covidians reached such an acceptance and even enthusiast promotion of inhuman restrictions; even now, once they acknowledge the strong proof against most of them, both for being useless and for collateral damage they bring

The Slippery Slope

The Psychopathic Manipulation Formula
How do they do it? By analyzing corporate cons, Babiak discovered the basic methods psychopaths use to operate in a hierarchical, corporate environment. But no matter in what environment the psychopath finds himself—a romantic relationship, a corporate strategy, a planned heist, an election campaign, a political coup—he uses the same, three-phase “Assessment-Manipulation-Abandonment” routine.

In the first phase, the psychopath assesses the value of his “ally” and potential patsy—what he or she can do to further the his aims. Psychopaths are experts at identifying and pushing others’ buttons, their “likes and dislikes, motives, needs, weak spots, and vulnerabilities.”6 Strengths are utilized and weaknesses exploited.

Next, the psychopath uses messages carefully crafted for the specific target, utilizing information gathered in the Assessment Phase. He then adapts his manipulation to accommodate any new feedback from the target in order to maintain full control. As Babiak and Hare write:

They often make use of the fact that for many people the content of the message is less important than the way it is delivered. A confident, aggressive delivery style—often larded with jargon, clichés, and flowery phrases—makes up for the lack of substance and sincerity in their interactions with others … they are masters of impression management; their insight into the psyche of others combined with a superficial—but convincing—verbal fluency allows them to change their personas skillfully as it suits the situation and their game plan. They are known for their ability to don many masks, change “who they are” depending upon the person with whom they are interacting, and make themselves appear likable to their intended victim.7

Maybe it’s just me, but that sounds an awful lot like the work done by intelligence agencies and Big Tech.

Psychopaths also use a variety of manipulation techniques, for example, gaslighting. When told a lie often enough, and with seemingly absolute certainty, normal people tend to doubt their own perceptions. “Amazingly, more often than not, victims will eventually come to doubt their own knowledge of the truth and change their own views to believe what the psychopath tells them rather than what they know to be true.”8 In this phase, the psychopath ruthlessly exploits his victims, using them to acquire money, position, control, and power.

When a person has ceased to be useful, they are discarded in the final, Abandonment Phase. Loyal to none, this often has devastating effects on those who were deceived by the psychopath’s façade of lies and “good intentions.” Whether a spouse who has been drained emotionally, an old woman whose bank account has been emptied, or a “friend” whose connections have finally paid off, the psychopath inevitably throws them out and moves on to the next target.

Why Do So Many Californians Still Wear Masks?
This faith in authority seems to be another characteristic of those who place their faith in masks ...

The Bay Area where I live probably has the densest population of mask wearers, with LA a close second. In a Los Angeles Times survey that compared Los Angeles County mask use with Orange County, LA thumped the OC handily. No surprise there.

The survey also indicated that a woman is more likely to don a mask than a man. Based on my purely anecdotal observations this seems to ring true as well. ...

In fairness, lots of people interviewed for the article were absolutely thrilled to junk masks. This is certainly what I’ve found too. Where once they regarded themselves as the morally virtuous majority, maskers are now greatly outnumbered. ...

This faith in authority seems to be another characteristic of those who place their faith in masks. They continue to listen to, and apparently believe, what they hear from government officials, public health “experts” and media outlets that have consistently lied to them or distorted or hidden the truth for their own purposes.

Keyser Söze

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world that vaccines are “Safe & Effective.” Vaccines enable the state and corporations to transgress sacred boundaries and destroy bodies, minds, families, and society. ...

Human nature

I’m coming to believe that literally anyone can go fascist. Give someone power, a little bit of fear, and 5 minutes and see what happens. The idea of “good people” is a myth. Show me someone with power who shows restraint, okay, that’s better than the alternative. But it’s always unstable, one never knows what the next moment will bring. The whole ballgame in politics is building structures to check power. The problem right now is that there are no structures to check the power of public health and so it’s a runaway freight train. Any system that lacks checks and balances will, at some point, go fascist (see: non-profits, public health, Hollywood, communist states).

The sacrifice of liberal principles of free speech, equality, autonomy, justice, fairness (equality under the law), secularism, diversity of views (“classical liberalism”), and the institutions entrusted with securing these principles for the citizenry have been made in exchange for power in which any means (abandoning those principles and corrupting those institutions) justify its abundant accumulation as a recursive end.

The liberals of the last century, regardless of decades and passions, would be horrified to see what has become of the self-proclaimed liberals of today, who openly embrace censorship, celebrate proxy wars between nuclear powers and deny calls for a peaceful resolution. They would be terrified by “liberals” who promote Marxist indoctrination in schools, and gender confusion among children to push them toward chemical castration while demanding the state oversees and manages human choices that eliminate bodily autonomy including forced injections of experimental toxins that only succeed in killing and maiming people to line big Pharma’s pockets.

Without convictions to stand behind and defend their beliefs, which may not have been very strong or worthy of defending in the face of mob influence, over the past decade millions of liberals succumbed to herd behavior and abandoned their liberal principles to avoid the ad hominem slanders associated today with simply believing in basic civil liberties enshrined in the Bill of Rights.

The full transformation of Liberalism into Authoritarianism is nearing its final stages, though it was a process that consumed many decades through the gradual debasement and abandonment of liberal principles.

Following the fanatical suppression of safe old FDA-approved drugs, the novel, experimental mRNA COVID-19 vaccines were forced on humanity with even more fanatical zeal, becoming objects of quasi religious reverence. Anyone who has even questioned their safety and efficacy has been relentlessly persecuted.

How to explain this confusing state of affairs? For almost three years we have investigated a range of individual human and institutional actors who seem to be playing a prominent role. We often talk about the huge pharmaceutical companies and their friends in international foundations such as the Gates and Rockefeller. They in turn seem to be part of a greater hierarchy consisting of the DOD, DARPA, the NIH, BARDA, FEMA, and the DHS. These institutions, in turn, are dependent on the vast apparatus of debt financing that is the lifeblood of all state leviathans.

At the same time, we have discussed the irrational and nonsensical behavior we have observed on a mass scale among both state and private actors. While fear has played an obvious role, it alone cannot explain the bizarre and malevolent drama we have seen. ...

Mephistopheles seems to embody the strange fact that humans may participate in corrupt and destructive enterprises that don’t really make sense. No particular motive such as the desire for money or power can quite explain it. After all, what is the gratification of acquiring money and exercising power for old men who already have tons of both and few years left to live?

It must be so completely humiliating to believe in the thing. Each day brings with it ever-greater indignities:

• The thing was going to be safe. Then it made you sick.

• The thing was going to stop infection. Then you caught Covid.

• The thing was going to stop transmission. Then it didn’t.

• The thing was going to stop severe outcomes. Then more sullied people died than unsullied.

• The thing was going to stop the pandemic. Then it accelerated the rise of new variants.

• The thing was going to set you free. Then they imprisoned you inside your home.

• The thing was going to confirm that “experts know best.” Now the expert class has been revealed as a fraud.

• The thing was going to confirm that your worldview is good and right and true. Then you had to embrace fascism to stay in the club and now you don’t recognize yourself anymore.

You’ve been lied to, bamboozled, led astray. But the sunk costs in the wrong thing are so enormous, you’re reluctant to acknowledge reality.

https://tobyrogers.substack.com/p/thinking-points-december-7-2022

It must be so completely humiliating to believe in the thing. Each day brings with it ever-greater indignities:

• The thing was going to be safe. Then it made you sick.

• The thing was going to stop infection. Then you caught Covid.

• The thing was going to stop transmission. Then it didn’t.

• The thing was going to stop severe outcomes. Then more sullied people died than unsullied.

• The thing was going to stop the pandemic. Then it accelerated the rise of new variants.

• The thing was going to set you free. Then they imprisoned you inside your home.

• The thing was going to confirm that “experts know best.” Now the expert class has been revealed as a fraud.

• The thing was going to confirm that your worldview is g...

I read that the tactics used by our own government during the plandemic are the same as used to torture. They are a form of torture. I may have read it here on Pat.net.

Starting perhaps 5 months ago, What I am seeing "normies" have switched from denial to projecting anger. I guess it is part of the 5 stages for grief:

Denial - (what you are saying can't be true. You are an idiot)

Anger - (I'm so angry I was tricked, but don't know how to deal with it, so I will take it out on THEM)

Bargaining - (would this explain, for some "further along" the awakening curve, are still wearing and have returned to wearing, masks?)

Depression - (my entire world view is destroyed. I did everything I was told and failed)

Acceptance - (Maybe then make amends, Like 12 steps of recovery?)