patrick.net

HeadSet says

richwicks says

BTW that monitor is quite odd. I understand there's widespread poverty there, but that monitor looks like a late 1990's television or computer screen.

Russians and Ukrainians pride themselves in making items last for generations. They consider the west quite wasteful and lacking in resourcefulness when westerners replace serviceable equipment. Also, not sure that area has transitioned to OTA digital broadcasts. May still need a SECAM TV to get television.

I'd agree the west is quite wasteful.

I'm on a 7 year old computer. I'll upgrade when it becomes worthwhile to reduce the energy consumption and I'm not certain that will happen any time soon. This thing is still a beast but eventually, the cost of the energy to power this will require it to be replaced.

A product is proportional to the energy it takes to make, when a product's energy consumption outstrips the cost of the device + the energy consumption, time to dump it. This machine I'm on, can simulate every machine I ever owned up until 2000, and uses less energy than the original machines used to do it. If I want to play a Playstation 1 or an SNES, it doesn't make sense to use the original hardware in any sense.

Quite an impressive time we live in. BTW - both of those machines can be simulated on a 10 watt raspberry pi computer. It's mind blowing.

mostly reader says

Patrick says

I think you're right @richwicks

About Russia not losing? This may be a good time to put ourselves on record, just to see who's model is closer to reality. We just need to define what "losing" vs "not losing" is.

The question is, what did Putin have to lose by moving in troops to “save Ukraine from the evil west and Nazis.” It would seem that what he had to lose was small compared to the goal in mind. I don’t claim to know fully what his aims are but it seems to me he is holding all the cards and the longer the Ukrainian President holds out seeking handouts from the west to prolong the war, the more the Ukrainian President is responsible for the prolonged suffering of the Ukrainian people.

Ukraine only has two choices, serve the western oligarchs, or serve the Russian oligarchs. Putin seems to want to save the Ukrainian people from the western oligarchs, and has dared the west to stop him. The west won’t stop him, and he knows it. Do you think Mitt Romney or Joe Biden care about the Ukrainian people? They don’t even care about the American people as they sit in their Ivory towers and their sons literally rake in millions of dollars from the a Ukrainian energy industry.

So if Ukraine has any sensibility they will realize that they can end the war today, and only they can end it. Even Putin can’t end it because that would defeat the purpose of the exercise, which was to save Ukraine from the evil western oligarchs and their Nazi brigades. And the western oligarchs are just as responsible for the suffering of the Ukrainian people, because they offer false hope that aid from the west will turn the tide. It won’t, it will only prolong the suffering of the Ukrainian people and impoverish with working (middle class and poor) people of the west who have nothing to do with this conflict of oligarchs. To Russia this is similar to USA’s Vietnam war, except even more personal to them because the people they came to save speak Russian! And while I’m sure Putin would prefer not to destroy infrastructure of Ukraine, he , like the American Generals in Vietnam might believe they have to destroy some villages in order to save them.

I don’t condone what Putin is doing, but let’s be honest American presidents have done similar or worse. And while what Putin is doing might not be morally pure, he does hold all the cards. That is, unless the west is willing to take him out? Of course the last time America took out a dictator it ruined Iraq and essentially made it a staging area of Iran and other enemies of the USA. Be careful what you wish for. Putin is bad, but getting rid of him is probably much worse for Russia, Ukraine and the American people than just giving him what he wants.

PeopleUnited says

So if Ukraine has any sensibility they will realize that they can end the war today, and only they can end it.

From what I hear, and of course that is suspect and unreliable, is that the NeoNazis of Ukraine think they will be tried, then executed if Ukraine surrenders.

Ukraine is run by criminals, just like our nation is. If they lose in this war, it's the end for them, and if they are psychopaths (like our nation's "leaders" are) they have nothing to lose by fighting to the end.

Governments do not work for their populace. That's been my conclusion for over a decade. Governments work to sustain themselves. It's just a mafia.

PeopleUnited says

And the western oligarchs are just as responsible for the suffering of the Ukrainian people, because they offer false hope that aid from the west will turn the tide. It won’t

It's a false dichotomy, that it's good versus evil. It's just evil against evil. The West is the salvation of the current criminals in power, not the people under them.

PeopleUnited says

To Russia this is similar to USA’s Vietnam war, except even more personal to them because the people they came to save speak Russian!

I'd LIKE to think this, but no - the Russian government doesn't care. They are concerned about NATO weaponry, they don't care about the people in the Donbass, if they did, this would have happened over 7 years ago.

PeopleUnited says

And while I’m sure Putin would prefer not to destroy infrastructure of Ukraine, he , like the American Generals in Vietnam might believe they have to destroy some villages in order to save them.

We will see. That's what is interesting about this, the destruction doesn't seem to compare to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria - but I can only see what is offered to me.

PeopleUnited says

Putin is bad, but getting rid of him is probably much worse for Russia,

I don't know if he is.

I hope the war is short, with minimal deaths. I think Ukraine has no hope in this war, and should have never fought it, they should immediately surrender. I think the only difference between immediate surrender and fighting, is how many people die. I think Ukraine should have accepted Russia's demands MONTHS ago, and I think, perhaps incorrectly, that this war would have been avoided.

I blame the United States for this. I blame them because I'm absolutely convinced that the US overthrew Ukraine and then made false promises. War is just state sanctioned murder but I also realize if you cannot reason with an aggressor, you have to murder.

All of this could have been avoided, but we have psychopaths in power.

It's a terrible situation, but my criminal murderous government, seems to delight in them. I want us to be a moral nation again, but the problem is that our population doesn't recognize we have an immoral government, and won't hang the bastards.

richwicks says

BTW that monitor is quite odd. I understand there's widespread poverty there, but that monitor looks like a late 1990's television or computer screen. You can tell both by the thickness of it, and the size of it.

HeadSet says

Russians and Ukrainians pride themselves in making items last for generations. They consider the west quite wasteful and lacking in resourcefulness when westerners replace serviceable equipment. Also, not sure that area has transitioned to OTA digital broadcasts. May still need a SECAM TV to get television.

Yep, it looks like my last TV (TV/VCR Combo), from Philco, early 90s. One of the last TVs made in the USA. Finally got rid of it around 2010 just because I never watched TV.

richwicks says

I think Ukraine has no hope in this war, and should have never fought it, they should immediately surrender.

Not everybody is a cuck.

richwicks says

This is the funny thing, today, the Russian government is more credible than the American government is.

This is not the funny thing. This is the funniest thing. The funniest thing that I heard all day.

You are comparing cold to cancer, match burn to autodafe, paper cut to decapitation. And your comparison is reversed.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

This is the funny thing, today, the Russian government is more credible than the American government is.

This is not the funny thing. This is the funniest thing. The funniest thing that I heard all day.

You are comparing cold to cancer, match burn to autodafe, paper cut to decapitation. And your comparison is reversed.

The Russian government was caught lying multiple times but our very skeptical friend has a blind spot for it. Remember loud assurances that "there is no plans to invade Ukraine" as late as mid-Feb? How about "there are no conscripts fighting in Ukraine" followed by admission that there are indeed conscripts sent to fight in Ukraine after videos of them taken POW has surfaced? SO! FUCKING! CREDIBLE!

ChauvinsKnee says

Not everybody is a cuck.

mostly reader says

This is not the funny thing. This is the funniest thing. The funniest thing that I heard all day.

I thought America was a racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic nation born in Slavery when all the Vaccine Hesitant Hick Puritans came to Plymouth Rock with their Gay Tranny Slaves.

Looks like we seamlessly shifted back to the Defender of Democracy, Freedom, and Goodness again very quickly.

"Ukrainian forces have defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war"
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-19?source=patrick.net

Russia is a poor shit-hole country with half the population of the US.

I don't believe they have enough bodies or material to throw at this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DrongoPtica/status/1505464478992945155?source=patrick.net

socal2 says

"Ukrainian forces have defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war"
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-march-19?source=patrick.net

Russia is a poor shit-hole country with half the population of the US.

I don't believe they have enough bodies or material to throw at this.

Great, so no WW3 and nobody needs to commit anything since the situation is under control. Why all the screaming and yearning for WW3 then by the globohomos and zelinsky? Let em defeat russia

The Ukrainians seem to torture people:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505309631542931459.html?source=patrick.net

Patrick says

The Ukrainians seem to torture people:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505309631542931459.html?source=patrick.net

I wonder if "marauder" in this case means a looter. I can see how the Ukrainian public would not object to looters being tied to poles like that.

https://mobile.twitter.com/uawire/status/1505598442248318981?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&source=patrick.net

HeadSet says

Patrick says

The Ukrainians seem to torture people:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1505309631542931459.html?source=patrick.net

I wonder if "marauder" in this case means a looter. I can see how the Ukrainian public would not object to looters being tied to poles like that.

One оf the meanings is indeed "looter":

https://translate.google.com/?sl=uk&tl=en&text=мародер&op=translate


In the Western tradition these are usually shot on sight.

RWSGFY says

In the Western tradition these are usually shot on sight.

And then displayed with a placard,
"LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT!

Onvacation says

RWSGFY says

In the Western tradition these are usually shot on sight.

And then displayed with a placard,
"LOOTERS WILL BE SHOT ON SIGHT!

we really nreded to apply that attitude to blm. instead our politicians all got on one knee and proceded to suck that dick in obedience ritual

HeadSet says

I wonder if "marauder" in this case means a looter. I can see how the Ukrainian public would not object to looters being tied to poles like that.

Wish we had some of that going on during the BLM riots.

Doubt Patrick would be calling it "torture" if some neighborhood dudes in Portland managed to strap a skinny white Antifa loser to a pole and whipped him for burning buildings.

https://nationalfile.com/zelensky-uses-emergency-powers-to-suspend-opposition-parties/?source=patrick.net

socal2 says

Wish we had some of that going on during the BLM riots.

Guess who isn't getting special treatment cause she's all Black and Gay or whatever?

Fucking shit, look at the size of these things:

https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1505945111171145729?source=patrick.net

AmericanKulak says

Guess who isn't getting special treatment cause she's all Black and Gay or whatever?

Isn't she stuck in Russia? Putin claims Ukraine is filled with a bunch of Soros and Globalist homos - right?

That makes sense, as Putin is now resorting to using Jihadis from Syria and Chechnya to kill Christians in Ukraine.

https://t.me/greatreject/32657?source=patrick.net

Russian Ministry of Defence release video appearing to show Ukrainian multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) using the shopping mall to park that was then struck by a Russian ballistic missile last night.

Wow, that thing that comes from the sky looks pretty deadly.

socal2 says

That makes sense, as Putin is now resorting to using Jihadis from Syria and Chechnya to kill Christians in Ukraine.

The Jihadists are fighting Russia. These are the same groups the US employed to fight in Syria against Russia. CIA has been doing this for decades.

socal2 says

That makes sense, as Putin is now resorting to using Jihadis from Syria and Chechnya to kill Christians in Ukraine.

See also Taliban against Russia, and the "Syrian Freedom Fighters", many of whom were AQ and/or just half a step shy of full ISIS themselves

RC2006 says

The Jihadists are fighting Russia. These are the same groups the US employed to fight in Syria against Russia. CIA has been doing this for decades.

Putin is importing Muslims to kill Christians in Ukraine.

Simple as that.

The same folks that are now cheering on Putin are the same sorts that think 9/11 was an inside job and America, or America had it coming for "victimizing" the Muslim world with our support of Israel.

The two most destructive ideologies in my lifetime (Marxism and Islamism) have often been joined at the hip in their hostility to the West.

socal2 says

Isn't she stuck in Russia? Putin claims Ukraine is filled with a bunch of Soros and Globalist homos - right?

And Nazis. Don't forget the Nazis!

All at the same time and all "financed by the US".

PS. Again, nobody could explain why would the US simultaneosly finance two polar opposite groups if their goal was to have a strong ally for the planned attack on poor defenceless Mother Russia. I could see it as a way to weaken Ukraine, but this would be playing into Putin's hand.

Russia’s Ministry of Defence here admits 9,861 dead, and 16,153 wounded, soldiers, respectively. A drastic upward revision: https://archive.ph/f0A2Y?source=patrick.net

original link

mostly reader says

richwicks says

This is the funny thing, today, the Russian government is more credible than the American government is.

This is not the funny thing. This is the funniest thing. The funniest thing that I heard all day.

You are comparing cold to cancer, match burn to autodafe, paper cut to decapitation. And your comparison is reversed.

The US government has lied about

* The Nayirah testimony to start Operation Desert Storm
* The Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan making chemical weapons so Clinton could blow it up to distract from Monica Lewinsky's dress.
* A weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq to start the 2nd Iraq War
* Assad using chemical weapons so the US could bomb it, try to remove Russia's military base in Tartus, and to put in an oil mining operation for Genie Energy
* Qaddafi "causing a humanitarian crisis" so the US could bomb it, creating an humanitarian crisis.
* Russian Collusion
* Clinton having done no wrong by placing classified materials on a server that was known to have been compromised
* Opium cultivation in Afganistan which was under US military occupation - that's PART of the reason we were there.
* PROBABLY 9/11
* Hunter Biden's laptop, and yes, it appears that if some of those images are real, Hunter Biden is a legitimate pedophile.
* The "pandemic" and the effectiveness of several drugs.

So, what are Russia's big lies?

socal2 says

The same folks that are now cheering on Putin are the same sorts that think 9/11 was an inside job and America

You've never even bothered to look into it. You're just repeating what you saw on television. That's the depth of your thinking, repeating what you saw on a glowing propaganda box.

ChauvinsKnee says

richwicks says

I think Ukraine has no hope in this war, and should have never fought it, they should immediately surrender.

Not everybody is a cuck.

@ChauvinsKnee People like you are so full of shit.

Ukraine is accepting volunteers to fight. I'll buy you a plane ticket if you like, but I see you off at the gate.

You mother fuckers just love war, until you have to fight it. Fucking warmongering chickenhawks. The US has been at 20 years of war, what good has any of the wars been for this nation, or the people of this nation? But you braying asses keep clamoring for it, as if it shows some bravery to do it.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?source=patrick.net

richwicks says

ChauvinsKnee says

richwicks says

I think Ukraine has no hope in this war, and should have never fought it, they should immediately surrender.

Not everybody is a cuck.

@ChauvinsKnee People like you are so full of shit.

Ukraine is accepting volunteers to fight. I'll buy you a plane ticket if you like, but I see you off at the gate.

You mother fuckers just love war, until you have to fight it. Fucking warmongering chickenhawks. The US has been at 20 years of war, what good has any of the wars been for this nation, or the people of this nation? But you braying asses keep clamoring for it, as if it shows some bravery to do it.

It's pretty clear that Ukrainians do not share your ideas on what to do when their country is invaded. You think they should fold. They think they should fight tooth and nail. And they do.

If looked at it objectively the position to lay down arms and surrender to the invading force is kinda similar to letting somebody fuck your wife. Would you?

Eric Holder says

It's pretty clear that Ukrainians do not share your ideas on what to do when their country is invaded. You think they should fold. They think they should fight tooth and nail. And they do.

Well, if they win, I'm wrong.

I think either Russia will win, or, this will become a prolonged battle and all of Ukraine will look like Tripoli or Aleppo does, 10 years from now.

The United States has over 25 bio-research labs in Ukraine - and they are very worried about Russia releasing these agents, which indicates they have to be bioweapons. Is this kind of crap the Ukrainians are actually fighting for, whether they know it or not.

Who am I to tell them to give that up?

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

It's pretty clear that Ukrainians do not share your ideas on what to do when their country is invaded. You think they should fold. They think they should fight tooth and nail. And they do.

Well, if they win, I'm wrong.

You are wrong even if they don't.

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
❗️It is reported that the #Russian occupiers in #Bucha, #Irpen, and #Gostomel are cut off from supplies and surrounded.
6:07 AM · Mar 22, 2022·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1506256136504184834?source=patrick.net

Eric Holder says

richwicks says

Eric Holder says

It's pretty clear that Ukrainians do not share your ideas on what to do when their country is invaded. You think they should fold. They think they should fight tooth and nail. And they do.

Well, if they win, I'm wrong.

You are wrong even if they don't.

People like you get other people killed needlessly.

If in a war, you cannot win, it is pointless to fight, and in fact is immoral to fight, because you don't only lose, you prevent yourself from winning later on. It's a complete loss, and the victor writes the history.

If in a war, you can win, but the cost on lives and property are too great, it's again immoral to fight, because it again just weakens you.

If in a war, you can win, and the cost on lives and property justify it, only then is it worthwhile to fight.

All Ukraine had to do was say "we won't join NATO or host any of their weapons for X number of years", and then renegotiate later on and all this could have been avoided but the US has been driving hard for a conflict with Russia for years, and it should have been particularly obvious by 2016, when we were seeing shit like this:


original link