patrick.net

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Propaganda doesn't make a difference in a war except for those directly fighting it.

Exposing atrocities and war crimes - is it propaganda?

I'd say no, but according to the US Federal government it is - which is why Julian Assange is certain to die in custody.

The question is - are they real and if they are, who committed them? Governments commonly lie in war. My government is happy to pass along bullshit war atrocities when it favors their propaganda. The did with the "White Helmets". They did it when, supposedly, contractors (mercenaries) were being beheaded in Iraq and Syria.

I'm used to governments feeding me bullshit. I expect it.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

What challenge specifically?

Shall we start with the one in which you pressed me to release materials which may have hurt other people, but then ran like a bitch when I suggested that you put some skin in the game?

Sure, why not? Give me a link to my post. Is this the one where you demanded I stay silent if you posted some bullshit?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I see no rationale to only limit it to a single source. Explain.

It's not enough for you to get spanked for not following one source. You really want to get spanked for not following two (because I know you won't be following either). Here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb2oej0JtxlnywlqoSiHHVQ/featured?source=patrick.net

So you reference a whole TWO sources.

mostly reader says

X-KGB. Only limited access to info which is not widely available,

Another intelligence asshole. great. i have a deep respect for fuckers that have worked in "intelligence". Putin did, George H. Bush did. Standup guys.

mostly reader says

Saves a lot of time: you can use him as a digest for public yet little known data.

Steve Pieczenik claims to have little known data. He's a hoot, and a compulsive liar.

mostly reader says

He probably spends more time every day reading and analyzing than you spend posting, and he has much better talent for what he does than you for what you do.

Possibly.

mostly reader says

We both know that you won't be following either of them, and that your interest is less than genuine

Depends on how accurate the youtube translation is.

mostly reader says

For that you will be spanked in due time.

I don't view this as a competition.

I know my government lies. I know my government lies about Russia. I know that my government creates false flags. I know Victoria Nuland chose the first leader of Ukraine after the coup. I know my government would not allow autonomy of Ukraine after that coup. I know what my government has done previously in governments they have overthrown and they don't change policy quickly. When our intelligence agencies overthrew THIS nation to "elect" Biden it was practically the same playbook as Operation Ajax and PBSuccess - those were 50 years ago. When they stumble on something that works, they stick with it forever.

mostly reader says

But it raises a question: why do you ask? Explain.

Why do I ask for several sources?

When people are telling lies, they contradict one another. A story has plot holes, almost without exception. Excellent well done propaganda is well researched and a careful story is produced that doesn't contract the propaganda at any level. This is nearly impossible to do. It requires every propagandist to know a full and complete story of the previous lies.

It's a lot easier for a single person to lie than 50.

Speculation of course can be contradictory, people can make mistakes as well, there are errors in reporting. That happens, in the heat of the moment, but in propaganda, there are no retractions, there aren't people eating crow and admitting error. That's the US "news" networks. When is the last time you saw Rachael Maddow, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Anderson Cooper, Chris Cuomo, Amy Goodman, etc - make a retraction?

I've seen Joe Rogan do one. I've seen Jimmy Dore make several. I've seen Aaron Mate make mistakes, Jon Pilger, Glenn Greenwald.. Propagandists never do. Propagandists are like the pope - they pretend to be infallible.

richwicks says

I'd say no, but according to the US Federal government it is - which is why Julian Assange is certain to die in custody.

I'm reacting to YOUR statement, not to that of US Federal Government. I'm asking YOU, not US Federal Government.

richwicks says

Sure, why not? Give me a link to my post.

Are you saying that you don't remember that discussion which lapsed over multiple posts, in which you tried to wiggle your way out of the challenge? Is it really a single person posting under the "richwicks" handle, or multiple agents with a broken communication link??

richwicks says

So you reference a whole TWO sources.

That's two more than I should've given to a cocksucker who pressures for answers but then ignores them when it gets inconvenient. Are you going to follow those two that I gave you? It's a Yes or No question. I know the answer, I just want to make it obvious that you are a dishonest agent.

richwicks says

Another intelligence asshole. great.

Here's a bit of news for you, Einstein. Most people whose opinions matter are a product of some specialized training. Because - guess what? - THEY HAD THE TRAINING. This specific guy is what, 75 years old, inactive and lives in US? He is almost a definition of someone who has the skill but no obvious agenda. And you are now trying to character-assassinate him because - why? - because he's one of the most qualified people, due to the training that he received! You literally can't make this up!

richwicks says

Depends on how accurate the youtube translation is.

YOU posted that you were ok with Russian source. Don't YOU go bitching now about youtube translations after YOU stated that translation is not a problem.

richwicks says

Why do I ask for several sources?

When people are telling lies, they contradict one another...

Why does it matter if you won't be following them and won't be knowing if they contradict one another? It doesn't. With that in mind, your explanation makes no sense. I have to repeat the question: with full understanding that you won't be following my sources, why did you keep pressing about them?
My theory is - because you are a propaganda troll. Feel free to offer yours.

https://thegoodcitizen.substack.com/p/tochka-tochka-tochka?s=r&source=patrick.net

Another weekend, another false flag massacre by the Ukrainians, repeated by western corporate media propagandists to manufacture outrage for more weapons, more war, more dead Ukrainian civilians until Russia is bogged down in Ukraine forever and there are no Ukrainians even left to die for the western bloodthirsty empire.

This might be the last one of these posts. It’s just so lazy, obvious, and pathetic now. They want us to believe that Russia wrote “for the children” on the side of a missile and intentionally launched it into a train station packed with women and children fleeing the city of Kramatorsk, in Eastern Ukraine near Donetsk?

That fits the exact M.O. of Russia since the start of the war. Move fast, carelessly, slaughter women and children in the east where ethnic Russians are, write slogans on missiles to make the bereaved angry, and hope they’ll one day forgive the Russian government when a referendum is held there to join Russia. Completely makes logical sense.

There’s only one major problem with this story other than the laziness of the narrative, the writing on the side of the missile, and the entire western media propaganda complex screaming about how evil Russia and Putin are, and that is...drumroll please…the serial number on the missile that shows it’s probably Ukrainian and the fact that it was fired from territory still controlled by Ukrainian forces.

VeBee🇺🇸✝️
@VeBo1991
Like it or not she has a point ! A powerful one ! : MEP Clare Daley calls out the hypocrisy of the EU ! ( and NATO )

PS: Behind close doors EU still deals with Russian defence businesses !

Check out these tactical washing machines in the bed of a liberator's military truck:




Or were they liberated from Nazis?

In Iraq, 10,000 kilometers away from the US, they imagined some threat to their national security. They bombed it, found no threat. And didn’t even say they were sorry. But when right at our border they grow neo-Nazi ultra-radicals, create dozens of biolabs … working on bioweapons, as documents prove, we are told we are not allowed to react to those threats

- Sergei Lavrov, Foreign Minister, Russia
April 2022

Patrick says

There’s only one major problem with this story other than the laziness of the narrative, the writing on the side of the missile, and the entire western media propaganda complex screaming about how evil Russia and Putin are, and that is...drumroll please…the serial number on the missile that shows it’s probably Ukrainian and the fact that it was fired from territory still controlled by Ukrainian forces.

I've heard (take with a grain of salt) that Ukrainians are being "encouraged" to wear armbands. White to indicate support for Russia, Blue to indicate support for the Ukrainian government and none at all for neutral.

Again, I've heard that in Bucha the bodies had white arm bands or none at all. Apparently the mayor announced the parting of the Russian troops and made no mention of the supposed massacre that happened.

I think probably the US is on the wrong side of this war, they always seem to be but time will tell.

Something additionally notable, although not too important, remember when the US claimed Russia had mobile crematoriums? Isn't it odd that they aren't using them now.. Just the level of BS of our government. It's remarkable. They don't even care a little about being internally consistent.

Patrick says

MEP Clare Daley

BTW, she's about as Irish as they come. The face, hair, accent, tone of opposition, and casual clothes are all spot-on.

mostly reader says

Here's a bit of news for you, Einstein. Most people whose opinions matter are a product of some specialized training. Because - guess what? - THEY HAD THE TRAINING.

So the Hunter Biden Laptop was a creation of Russian Intelligence like "50 experts" said was a possibility? Iraq had WMDs and the NLF were almost obliterated in 1968?

If you posted info about Hunter's Laptop in 2020 or 2021, you would be censored by all Social Media as spreading "Misinformation/Russian Disinformation". Miranda Devine and the NY Post
https://nypost.com/2022/03/18/intelligence-experts-refuse-to-apologize-for-smearing-hunter-biden-story/

Including BOTH former DIRECTORS of the CIA and NSA, as well as former National Security Advisors.

Former CIA chief of staff-turned MSNBC pundit Jeremy Bash, CIA director-turned MSNBC pundit John Brennan and ex-director of national intelligence-turned-CNN pundit James Clapper are among the retired intelligence operatives who insisted the laptop revealing Hunter Biden’s shady overseas business dealings, along with a cache of damning emails and photos, was the result of a "Russian disinformation" campaign designed to help keep then-President Trump in office.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-msnbc-intelligence-pundits-insisted-hunter-bidens-laptop-russian-disinformation

mostly reader says

It's not enough for you to get spanked for not following one source. You really want to get spanked for not following two (because I know you won't be following either). Here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb2oej0JtxlnywlqoSiHHVQ/featured?source=patrick.net

Not in English. I checked both the CC and to see if he had videos in English. Nope. All the videos are in Cyrillic, so I can't even suss out the topic.

He also came on Youtube in 2021. Never heard of him, can't understand him, why should I take him seriously?

Are you that hard up for English language, the language of world commerce and academia and media, sources?

How can we comprehend, much less verify, a source in a non-English language on the obviously English language board where 99.9999% of the content is in English other than the occasional Spanish Slang or Latin Phrase?

mostly reader says

X-KGB. Only limited access to info which is not widely available, but well informed in public domain and with mad analytical skills. Saves a lot of time: you can use him as a digest for public yet little known data. He probably spends more time every day reading and analyzing than you spend posting, and he has much better talent for what he does than you for what you do.

Ex-KGB, so his experiences are 30 years out of date.

AmericanKulak says

Ex-KGB, so his experiences are 30 years out of date.

LOL!

mostly reader says

Shall we start with the one in which you pressed me to release materials which may have hurt other people, but then ran like a bitch when I suggested that you put some skin in the game?

Dude, I think you're full of crap.

You're rude, argumentative, abrasive, irritating. How can anybody take you seriously? Do you really expect me to treat you as if you're respectable? Be respectable and I will treat you that way.

Ever heard of David Duke? I've been listening to him lately. He's interesting. He's a PhD historian on Eastern Europe. He has plenty to say about Ukraine and Russia. His take is that a corrupt Jewish oligarchy is intentionally destroying Ukraine and they don't give a damned about the people of Ukraine, in fact, they want to see them die. Basically, it's just the Ukrainian version of Neocons. His assertion is that the people killed in Bucha were murdered by the Azov Battalion, and they were killed after the Russians left. As evidence, he demonstrated that Fedoruk made a public announcement after Russia left and made no mention of civilian killings.

I find it humorous how apoplectic you are that people don't trust the "western narrative" after it's consistently proven itself to be entirely unreliable and false for 2 decades. If CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, PBS, NPR, the US government, Western intelligence agencies, etc are on "your side", history has demonstrated pretty conclusively in the last 2 decades that you have over a 90% probability of being wrong.

I know my nation and who runs it. They will fight to the last Ukrainian because it's lucrative. Their intention is to absolutely destroy Ukraine. That's their goal. That's what they do. They intentionally create conflict. They're maniacs and that's who you have sided with. The same people that have killed MILLIONS in the last 20 years. What was the goal of Afghanistan? Well, it made a lot of MIC companies very wealthy - the goal wasn't to win. The goal of the Afghanistan war was to prolong the war. Orwell warned about this, ironically.

richwicks says

I've heard (take with a grain of salt) that Ukrainians are being "encouraged" to wear armbands. White to indicate support for Russia, Blue to indicate support for the Ukrainian government and none at all for neutral.

I've heard that richwicks is a pedophile, a locker room surfer, and a bum bottom sniffer. But take with a grain of salt.

richwicks says

Dude, I think you're full of crap.

If you could think then we wouldn't be having this enlightening conversation. The best you can do is gather data. You should leave thinking and interpreting that data to others.

Edit: I actually want to dig into this. Where did you hear about the armbands and about those who got shot? What's your source? Is it RT, a mysterious Ukrainian coworker, reddit channel (which one?) Or your curator? Who?

AmericanKulak says

Not in English. I checked both the CC and to see if he had videos in English. Nope. All the videos are in Cyrillic, so I can't even suss out the topic.

And neither you should. The comment was meant for the "mostly writer". HE was the one who insisted that translation is not a problem, but then backpedaled.

To the unified chorus of the coach experts who claim that "his expertise is obsolete" regarding that X-KGB guy. I was talking specifically about his ability to process data. It's a skill, an acquired one. It's based no a number of rules which don't go obsolete, and it itself doesn't go obsolete.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I've heard (take with a grain of salt) that Ukrainians are being "encouraged" to wear armbands. White to indicate support for Russia, Blue to indicate support for the Ukrainian government and none at all for neutral.

I've heard that richwicks is a pedophile, a locker room surfer, and a bum bottom sniffer. No definite proof, take with a grain of salt.

And you try to lecture people on morality, hypocrite, heal thyself.

There's good reason to distrust my government, and the Ukrainian government simply because without question, the US overthrew it in 2014. The idea that Ukraine's current dictatorship would murder citizens for their own gain is also very much within the realm of possibility, because it was the conclusion of Catherine Ashton and Urmas Paet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8&source=patrick.net

Zelenskyy is just a puppet, but Ihor Kolomoyskyi is a monster. He's a mafioso.

Our government kills US citizens for propaganda purposes, I suspect they did it on 9/11 and I DEFINTELY know they did on February 26, 1993 because Emad Salem recorded his dealings with the FBI because he was (correctly) worried that the FBI would attempt to frame him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emad_Salem?source=patrick.net
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGer6t3SD6I&source=patrick.net

It's little use pointing this out to you, again, as I have multiple times. I know what my government is, every government is - they are flat out evil. Every country is controlled by a criminal syndicate, and Zelenskyy doesn't give a DAMN about civilians. This works for the United States, as it hurts Russian military capability. That's what the US wants out of this conflict. The more people that die, the better from the point of view of the Neocon sociopaths that run the United States. It's just propaganda for them.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Dude, I think you're full of crap.

If you could think then we wouldn't be having this enlightening conversation

I've attempted to communicate with you. Your assessment of me, is meaningless. It's just another insult. I don't feel I need to ever insult you, I think you do a capable job of embarrassing yourself. Look at how you act. If you're not embarrassed by your behavior, well, that's funny to me.

> richwicks

I'll post the "Edit" from above here so it doesn't fall through the cracks:

I actually want to dig into this. Where did you hear about the armbands and about those who got shot? What's your source? Is it RT, a mysterious Ukrainian coworker, reddit channel (which one?) Or your curator? Who?

mostly reader says

I actually want to dig into this. Where did you hear about the armbands and about those who got shot?

original link


Ryan Dawson is quite interesting. The only people worth listening to are people who are censored. That's been true for over a decade.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/anti-neocon-report/id1516366495?source=patrick.net

You don't pause for a second to realize you only hear what you're permitted to hear by corporations and our government. Just astounding gullibility at this point.

> richwicks

Give the exact times, will you? 1h 44min is a bit excessive.
Even better yet: cut to the chase, where did HE got that info?

BTW, logic 101 for you: "the only people worth listening to are people who are censored" (even if true which it isn't) WOULD NOT imply "all people who are censored are worth listening to"

mostly reader says

> richwicks

Give the exact times, will you? 1h 44min is a bit excessive.

I'd recommend that you start at about 25 minutes in. Jean Luc Brunel is involved with this shit show. He Epsteined himself, apparently.

About 26:45 is when his guest comes in. It's about a 1/2 an hour from there before David Duke comes in and a tiresome and irrelevant argument between the Dawson and Duke comes in, basically a disagreement on the concept of race, which is just a definition anyhow and it's different for everybody. Duke isn't everybody's cup of tea, but the guy is no moron, he's not even really a racist, but that's a LONG discussion there. His big error is being anti-Zionist and recognizing that Jewish people (just like all groups) have supremacists in their groups. Louis Farrakhan is a black supremacist but he has made some good points. Malcolm X made a lot of good points, before our government murdered him probably with Farrakhan's help.

28:00 is where the guest (unnamed) describes his beliefs about the situation. Dawson reminds the audience how full of shit the US government is, he's pretty funny and maybe he's more cynical than I am.

At 32:00 in, the armbands are discussed.

Notice I'm not demanding you to accept what you hear at face value. For all I know, this guest is full of shit. I cannot ascertain at this point in time. However, I have known of Dawson for a long time, and if his guest is full of shit, he will point it out in time. I've seen Dawson demolish people, Aaron Mate has done this. Journalists are so rare today.

mostly reader says

Even better yet: cut to the chase, where did HE got that info?

I don't know. Maybe he's lying? Dawson I know does some legwork to find out what is going on, his guest I don't know if he can be trusted. Reality conforms with logic though. The Russians needlessly killing civilians doesn't help them. It helps Ukraine's current government. This is why there's a code of conduct in war. The incentive for Ukraine to murder people sympathetic to Russia is obvious, and the murder of civilians that aren't fighting for "the right side" is just a threat. Their hypothesis is that a terror state is being created - either fight for Ukraine, or the Ukrainian military will kill you. It's grimly logical. What precisely is Ukraine fighting for anyhow? The right to join NATO when NATO will never allow them to join them? The right to have biological weapons labs (they are all weapons labs)? What is the mission? Russia appears to have a clear demand, what is Ukraine's? War is a horrible thing. There's no reason for this war other than for propaganda purposes in my opinion, the more people that die, the more strength of the propaganda, I don't think the Ukrainian government cares about the people dying in this conflict.

mostly reader says

BTW, logic 101 for you: "the only people worth listening to are people who are censored" (even if true which it isn't) WOULD NOT imply "all people who are censored are worth listening to"

I don't need to be told that if A is in B doesn't imply B is in A. Logic is part of my damned job - I'm well past 101. For example, it's not worthwhile to listen to Alex Jones even though he's censored. I always thought of him as being false opposition - he always crazies up a discussion and that hurts discussion. Some of his GUESTS are worth listening to - some of them. It's far more rare now since these people have long ago realized they were going to be censored and have moved to their own platforms. It's a bit of a mystery how Alex Jones became a millionaire selling Berkey water filters and vitamins... I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Jones is on the payroll of an intelligence group.

The only things worth listening to on youtube are comedians, which will eventually be censored themselves and the majority of them have "backups". There was never anybody worth listening to on Facebook or Twitter.

If you think people who aren't censored are worth listening to - fine. I just find them either way off the mark or bullshit propagandists but whatever. We have censorship today because people are sick and tired of being lied to and we know we're being lied to. People who promote actual reasonable and rational discussion and point out our government relentlessly lies get censored. I've been censored for pointing this out. This was censored on youtube:



We are allowed to talk about trivialities, not realities.

Isn't it odd that the Russian's "mobile crematoriums" are gone in this war? It's almost like our government just fucking made that shit up - because they did. Our propaganda is laughable. I'm astounded that people are still listening to mainstream narratives. They don't just lie when they have to, they lie all the fucking time, about everything, even when they don't have to.

richwicks says

Notice I'm not demanding you to accept what you hear at face value. For all I know, this guest is full of shit.

He is. He's parroting the narrative of kp.ru, the Kremlin propaganda outlet. Word-by-word. This is MH17 all over again, I'm waiting for dispatcher Carlos who saw it all to weigh in.

When Kremlin craps it's pants, it resorts to the usual tactics: friendly media sources that parrot lines which originate within it's walls. Who says that you can't buy friends?

Even an imbecile should suspect that something is fishy with a story which relies on PEOPLE WEARING ARMBANDS AKIN PAINTING TARGET ON THEIR BACKS! Yet you dive into this info dumpster, and happily spread around the findings.

There's only one bit to this story that has basis in the truth: Rashists made people wear bands. Rashists, not Ukrainians. The rest is the product of imagination of kp.ru and it's trumpets (you amongst them apparently, through yet another medium) BTW, reports (and photos of the bodies) DO NOT show any correlation with the color of an armband, and neither do survivors.

richwicks says

I don't need to be told that if A is in B doesn't imply B is in A.

Oh, you do. Demonstrable lack of logic and critical judgement is exactly the reason why anyone who feels like it can use you to wipe the floor.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Notice I'm not demanding you to accept what you hear at face value. For all I know, this guest is full of shit.

He is. He's parroting the narrative of kp.ru, the Kremlin propaganda outlet.

Possibly but at this point, "Russian propaganda" is a synonym for the unvarnished truth. Our government calls any truth that they are lying about "Russian propaganda". They've been doing this for 1/2 a decade. It's not my fault or error that my government is so fucking dishonest. They have zero credibility at this point and if the truth happens to coincide wit h "Russian propaganda", oh well. "American propaganda" used to coincide with the truth 40 years ago.

I would judge it to be an error for the intelligence agencies to infiltrate our "news" agencies with Project Mockingbird. I don't know why they thought continual lying was better than the truth. It's damaged their credibility irreperably.

mostly reader says

When Kremlin craps it's pants, it resorts to the usual tactics: friendly media sources that parrot lines which originate within it's walls. Who says that you can't buy friends?

Nobody said that. The US intelligence agencies did it. Find that Russian Collusion yet?

mostly reader says

Even an imbecile should suspect that something is fishy with a story which relies on PEOPLE WEARING ARMBANDS AKIN PAINTING TARGET ON THEIR BACKS!

Perhaps it's untrue. Again, I'll find out in time.

The point I made is that it's not logical for the Russians to murder people, it gives them not tactical advantage. It is advantageous to the Ukrainian puppet government. I can see their logic in this.

mostly reader says

There's only one bit to this story that has basis in the truth: Rashists made people wear bands. Rashists, not Ukrainians. The rest is the product of imagination of kp.ru and it's trumpets (you amongst them apparently, through yet another medium)

I have no idea what kp.ru is and I don't know what you mean by "trumpets".

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I don't need to be told that if A is in B doesn't imply B is in A.

Oh, you do. Demonstrable lack of logic and critical judgement is exactly the reason why anyone who feels like it can use you to wipe the floor.

I listen and bide my time. There's no reason to chose sides in this. It wouldn't matter if I did.

I know my government lies, that it's been trying to create a conflict with Russia, I know with certainty that Ukraine was overthrown by my government, and I know that Europeans have concluded that the sniper fire was done in Miadan was done by the current government. I know my government tells obvious lies, I know Ihor Kolomoyskyi is a criminal thug, I know this war is between governments and not people, I know that Russia has a legitimate grievance, I know that Zelenskyy is a puppet, I know that the Biden family is corrupt and is taking bribes from Ukraine.

Everything else is speculation.

But chiefly, I know my fucking government lies. It's a pity it's come to this point, but if they weren't such fucking liars, I could at least consider what they are claiming. They spent 1/2 a decade destroying their credibility, and these stupid assholes are furious I don't trust them. Why do you? Find that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq yet?

There's rumors that NATO is in Ukraine now - if this is the case, Russia will fight a war of attrition and this will go on for years, destroying Ukraine. It won't be a war for Russia to win, it will be a war to exhaust NATO. Russia is basically fighting on a home front, the United States isn't. I fucking hate the Neocons. They are the worst thing that has happened to my nation in my lifetime and I'm irritated by the dupes of them after 20 years of disaster under their incompetent leadership. This will just be another disaster.

Will make the offense industry a lot of money though - that's the main point.

richwicks says

Possibly but at this point, "Russian propaganda" is a synonym for the unvarnished truth.

Only in your disturbed imagination. "Russian propaganda" is not even a data point. They are not even trying to go "gray", which is when you have a grain of truth and use it to build up a lie (something that I found you do quite often). They just make shit up. Demonstrably. Over and over again. When someone hints that they are more truthful than US MSM (which is a low bar) I suspect that the person is a propaganda troll. When someone says what you said I don't suspect it, I know it.

richwicks says

I have no idea what kp.ru is and I don't know what you mean by "trumpets".

kp.ru - it's a source which creates BS that you are spreading (one of them). Their trumpet - it's what you are, knowingly or not. Glad to be of help.

richwicks says

Perhaps it's untrue. Again, I'll find out in time.

You don't need more data to rule out certain options if you are not an imbecile. Since you haven't ruled them out, and you are actively spreading them... well, you get the picture. Oh, wait, may be you don't!

richwicks says

I listen and bide my time. There's no reason to chose sides in this. It wouldn't matter if I did.

False. False. False.
- You don't just "listen and bide your time". You are actively engaged in propaganda, and lying about not choosing sides.
- There is a reason. It's imperfection (Ukraine) vs. pure evil (Moskovia). You are stroking the dick of pure evil. You are promoting Orcs, and imperfection of the other side is your talking point.

richwicks says

I know...

My first reaction was to paraphrase Ronald Regan - "The trouble with you is not that you are ignorant; it's just that you know so much that isn't so". But that would apply to an honest agent. It doesn't really apply to you.

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2022/april/11/cia-admits-feeding-americans-false-info-about-ukraine/?source=patrick.net

CIA Admits Feeding Americans False Info About Ukraine
written by ron paul
monday april 11, 2022

Late last year, a Gallup poll showed that Americans’ trust in the mainstream media has fallen to its second lowest level on record. Only seven percent of Americans responded that they have a “great deal” of trust in the media.

That loss of trust has been well-earned by the mainstream media, and it explains the massive growth of independent media and alternative voices on social media. The response to the rise of independent media voices has been a rush to “cancel” any voice outside the accepted mainstream narrative.

Citizens of the Soviet Union would read manipulated media like Pravda not because the regime reported facts, but because truth was hidden between the lines of what was reported and what was not reported. That seems to be where we are in the US today.

Last week an extraordinary article appeared in, of all places, NBC News, reporting that the US intelligence community is knowingly feeding information it does not believe accurate to the US mainstream media for the American audience to consume.

In other words, the article reports that the US “deep state” admits to being actively engaged in lying to the American people in the hopes that it can manipulate public opinion

According to the NBC News article, “multiple US officials acknowledged that the US has used information as a weapon even when confidence in the accuracy of the information wasn’t high. Sometimes it has used low-confidence intelligence for deterrent effect…”

Readers will recall the shocking headlines that Russia was prepared to use chemical weapons in Ukraine, that China would be providing military equipment to Russia, that Russian President Putin was being fed misinformation by his advisors, and more.

All of these were churned out by the CIA to be repeated in the American media even though they were known to be false. It was all about, as one intelligence officer said in the article, “trying to get inside Putin’s head.”

That may have been the goal, but what the CIA actually did was get inside America’s head with false information meant to shape public perception of the conflict. They lied to propagandize us in favor of the Biden Administration’s narrative.

Those pushing the “Russiagate” hoax through the Trump years claimed that the goal of “Russian disinformation” was to undermine Americans’ trust in our government, media, and other institutions. Isn’t it ironic that the CIA itself has done more than the Russians to undermine Americans’ faith in the media by feeding false stories to establish a particular narrative among the American people?

After the Bay of Pigs disaster, President Kennedy has been quoted as wanting “to splinter the CIA in a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.” That didn’t work out too well for him. As Senate Majority Chuck Schumer famously told Rachel Maddow in 2020, responding to the-President Trump’s criticism of the CIA, “let me tell you: You take on the intelligence community — they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you.”

As more information about the activities of the US Intelligence Community in trying to bring down Trump come out, it appears that, for once, Schumer was right.

It’s time to revisit President Kennedy’s post-Bay of Pigs wish. The CIA using lies to propagandize the American people toward war with Russia is just one of thousands of reasons to scatter a million pieces of that agency to the wind.

Weird scene: tank shoots a bunch of soldiers at close range:

https://southfront.org/videos-21-a-russian-tank-fired-at-group-of-soldiers-at-close-range/?source=patrick.net

Even reading the comments it's hard to understand how this could happen. My guess is that a bunch of Ukrainian solders thought that the Russian tank was captured, but it wasn't.

mostly reader says

To the unified chorus of the coach experts who claim that "his expertise is obsolete" regarding that X-KGB guy. I was talking specifically about his ability to process data. It's a skill, an acquired one. It's based no a number of rules which don't go obsolete, and it itself doesn't go obsolete.

Sir, intelligence experts are like financial analysts, economists, etc. An art, and a bad one, masquerading as a "science".

Again, two former DIRECTORS of both the NSA and CIA said Hunter's Laptop was Russian Disinformation. Now the Media has finally (probably because Biden is such a drag on their activism) admitted it's real. Just months ago you got banned from social media for mentioning it.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Possibly but at this point, "Russian propaganda" is a synonym for the unvarnished truth.

Only in your disturbed imagination. "Russian propaganda" is not even a data point.

No, it's not a data point. It's a thoughtless smear that idiots repeat. It's like "whataboutism" when the moron saying that means "you're bringing up my own hypocrisy, that's not fair!". Our government and it's pathetic, lapdog, Mockingbird media calls anything "Russian propaganda" when it's an inconvenient reality. Hunter Biden's laptop was called "Russian propaganda". Victoria Nuland's audio tape in picking Arseniy Yatsenyuk as the next "democratic" leader of Ukraine was called "Russian propaganda".

mostly reader says

They are not even trying to go "gray", which is when you have a grain of truth and use it to build up a lie (something that I found you do quite often).

Show me where I have. Quote me. Bring up specific examples so I can examine them, and I will walk you through my reasoning process or so you can show fault in my reasoning process.

mostly reader says

They just make shit up. Demonstrably. Over and over again.

The Russians do? Point out specific examples.

The US certainly does. Where are those mobile crematoriums? What about the Douma chemical attack in which two OPCW whistleblowers came forward to explain how it was staged? Do they do stuff like this?


original link


Delightfully hilarious! That's the credibility of our propaganda. They don't even try. They think their viewers are absolute morons, and guess what? They are. I used to respect CNN at one point, more than 20 years ago. They don't respect me.

mostly reader says

When someone hints that they are more truthful than US MSM (which is a low bar) I suspect that the person is a propaganda troll. When someone says what you said I don't suspect it, I know it.

HINTS? I'm outright stating it. "Hint". I'm certain they produce propaganda, but they don't assume their audience are fucking laughably stupid like US media does. It's not a "low bar", it's buried in the ground. Random commenters are more credible. Alex Jones is more credible and I think he's at least 1/2 full of shit. There's NOTHING less credible than the US government and it's media at this point.

50 intelligence officers claimed the Biden Laptop was false. FIFTY. How much do they have to fucking lie to you before you realize they will lie all the goddamned time? It's not that they have low credibility, they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I have no idea what kp.ru is and I don't know what you mean by "trumpets".

kp.ru - it's a source which creates BS that you are spreading (one of them). Their trumpet - it's what you are, knowingly or not. Glad to be of help.

Oh, so you're accusing me of just repeating something I am not even aware of, or care to know about. It's true I could be listening to people who are mindlessly repeating what they've heard from that site. That's entirely possible.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Perhaps it's untrue. Again, I'll find out in time.

You don't need more data to rule out certain options if you are not an imbecile. Since you haven't ruled them out, and you are actively spreading them... well, you get the picture. Oh, wait, may be you don't!

What am I incorrect about again? Quote me, don't just insult me. It's tiresome. I can't be insulted by you. I think you're an idiot blowhard, I don't care about your dumb opinion about me. Show me I'm wrong. I'd care then.

I know myself, I'll resist it, I'll at first internally deny it, but I will accept it in time. If you show me I'm incorrect, I'll go through anger, denial, then acceptance. I'll be angry because I will recognize I've been deceived, I will track down who deceived me and I will show others that the person is deceptive. Many people are like this, this is why comments aren't open on "mainstream news" today. A lot of people are pissed. A simple rule to follow is if you can't comment on a "news" story, you're reading propaganda, not news.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I listen and bide my time. There's no reason to chose sides in this. It wouldn't matter if I did.

False. False. False.
- You don't just "listen and bide your time". You are actively engaged in propaganda, and lying about not choosing sides.

Again, this is just stupidity and insult.

It doesn't matter a bit what anybody thinks. This government, this criminal government of ours, doesn't even fucking care about how we VOTE - our opinion is meaningless to them. They will do what they want. I'm just sitting back and laughing that people go along with it.

I walk past a school when I walk to work (quite often), and there's little blue rocks left out by the poor brainwashed students painted in blue with yellow letters "Ukraine" on them - no doubt part of an art project, ironically. As if suddenly people care about war victims. Where's the rocks for Libyans, and Syrians, and Iraqis, and Afghanis, and Yemenis? Just hilarious how easily people are controlled. In less than a week people went from demanding you mask up and get a boosters to making you swear allegiance to Ukraine.

One good thing, is a bunch of these NPC nitwits joined up with the Ukrainian military and got killed immediately. You can do that as well, if you like.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

I know...

My first reaction was to paraphrase Ronald Regan - "The trouble with you is not that you are ignorant; it's just that you know so much that isn't so".

Then tell me what it is I believe, and isn't so.

Quote me.

I can see why people think you're just a troll. I'm wondering if you're really a functioning person that can't do simple communication. All you have to do is point out what specifically I've stated, and how you conclude or believe it is wrong. Maybe I AM wrong, but in all the shouting and screaming at me, you have never given me a reason to reconsider my opinion. I speak to you in charity, because I try to get you to think, you don't ever return that favor.

Hmm, the rumor is that a United States Army lieutenant general was captured by Russian forces in Mariupol.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220407220315/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Cloutier?source=patrick.net

https://web.archive.org/web/20220408045234/https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/apr/05/tweets/no-nato-allied-land-command-leader-wasnt-captured-/

Normally I would dismiss this as BS woo crap, but PolitiFact has denied it, and they are like 100% wrong. I'm just posting this so I can follow it up later.

Let's hope Ukraine, the Bread Basket of the USSR, isn't a significant producer in comparison to Russia.

I'm going to make a bet. I bet people start to starve in the West, and Russia will feed their population. We find out in 9 months or so.

richwicks says

Show me where I have. Quote me.

I have. Repeatedly. At some point I dedicated a post to your use of gray propaganda: https://patrick.net/post/1344073/?comment_id=1826473 Are you having memory lapses, or do you pretend to not remember as a way to create friction?

richwicks says

The Russians do? Point out specific examples.

Let's take JUST ONE event, MH17.

- Claim by the "uprising" official talking head, Girkin, that the dead bodies were old and therefore already dead. The claim which was then echoed in Russian MSM. Note quotes in "uprising" - Girkin is a Russian militant who was dispatched to the Eastern Ukraine to stir shit in 2014.

- Invented Spanish air dispatcher Carlos.
A bit more on this.The fuckers desparately held on to the version that it was air-to-air rather than surface-to-air missile. The invented air dispatcher was supposed to confirm that there were military plains next to MH17. They further WENT TO WIKIPEDIA AND CHANGED TECHNICAL CHARACTERISTICS OF Su-25! The airplain with service ceiling of 23Kft could now climb and fight at 30K+.

- They further produced a doctored photo from "spy satellite" which showed a fighter plane shooting a missile towards MH17. The fuckers couldn't even produce a believable forgery: it turned out that the size of the fighter plane, as it compared with other elements on the photo, should've been around 6 miles.

I gave 3 just for practical purposes. In reality, there's more like 300 examples of them fabricating lies just on this topic: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/disinformation-cases/?text=MH17&date=&per_page=&source=patrick.net Go through the entire list and come back enlightened.

I wonder why you challenged me for examples. Did you not know any of it? Explain.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Show me where I have. Quote me.

I have. Repeatedly. At some point I dedicated a post to your use of gray propaganda: https://patrick.net/post/1344073/?comment_id=1826473 Are you having memory lapses,

Look, if you deny that the US overthrew Ukraine after you have the audio recordings of Victoria Nuland at first saying that Vitaly Klitschko shouldn't be the next leader

Nuland: Good. I don't think Klitsch should go into the government. I don't think it's necessary, I don't think it's a good idea.

Then saying that Arseniy Yatseniuk should be the next leader

Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience.

And that's precisely what happened.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957?source=patrick.net

you are either a troll meaning you are lying and know you're lying, or you're a crazy person unable to do basic, simple reasoning. In either case, it's an impasse. There is no point trying to appeal to your reasoning ability, if you have any. I find your thinking to be as trite as Jen Psaki telling the country that the reason gasoline is expensive is because of the sanctions on Russia and then pretending to be dumbfounded that people don't believe that BS.

I'm fully confident that Psaki isn't insane. I'm not so certain about you. Maybe you genuinely do believe the BS? That's just simply insane to me.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

The Russians do? Point out specific examples.

Let's take JUST ONE event, MH17.

Who cares about MH17? It's to no advantage of either the Ukrainians or the Russians to shoot down a commercial airliner. It was an accident, and then it was nothing more than fodder for propaganda. It doesn't matter who shot them down, it was an accident.

https://www.rebelnews.com/french_journalist_claims_americans_are_in_charge_ukraine_i_found_myself_facing_the_pentagon?source=patrick.net

A French journalist and senior international correspondent for mainstream publication Le Figaro, Georges Malbrunot, claims that Americans are “in charge” of the Ukrainian war effort on the ground.

Malbrunot, who returned from Ukraine, after he accompanied French volunteer fighters on the battlefield, said that he was surprised to find out that Americans are “commanding” efforts on the ground. The journalist made his remarks to French global news channel CNEWS, the second most-watched news network in the country.

“I had the surprise, and so did they, to discover that to be able to enter the Ukrainian army, well it’s the Americans who are in charge,” said Malbrunot.

French reporter returning from Ukraine "Americans are directly in charge of the war on the ground." pic.twitter.com/m5yr7far6N

— no one (@antiwar_soldier) April 11, 2022
Malbrunot asserted that he and the volunteers he was accompanying were “almost arrested” by the Americans, whom he said were in charge. Malbrunot claims that the volunteers were forced to sign a contract agreeing to fight “until the end of the war.”

“And who is in charge? It’s the Americans, I saw it with my own eyes,” claimed Malbrunot. “I thought I was with the international brigades, and I found myself facing the Pentagon.”

Malbrunot pointed out that America has been providing Ukraine with armed switchblade suicide drones, as previously reported by Rebel News.

On April 10, U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin shared a photograph of himself speaking to Ukrainian soldiers training on how to use the cutting edge weapons on a video conference call.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin speaks to Ukrainian soldiers training on switchblade drones in Biloxi, Mississippi before they return today to defend their country pic.twitter.com/awUaoySgeH

— Lucas Tomlinson (@LucasFoxNews) April 10, 2022
Following the interview, Malbrunot tweeted that British SAS units “have been present in Ukraine since the beginning of the war, as have the American Deltas.” The journalist cited a French intelligence source for his claim.

“The Russians don’t ignore it, they know what the secret war is,” his source purportedly told him.

La visite de Boris Johnson à Kiev confirme la place de Londres comme premier allié de l'Ukraine. "Les unités d'élite des forces spéciales SAS sont présentes en Ukraine depuis le début de la guerre, de même que les Delta américaines", confie une source française du renseignement. pic.twitter.com/6ziTj4Dpst

— Georges Malbrunot (@Malbrunot) April 9, 2022
The claim that British and American special forces units are operating on the ground in Ukraine runs contrary to public statements by both the U.S State Department and the British Foreign Office, which asserted that there would not be any “boots on the ground” in Ukraine.

richwicks says

Look, if you deny that the US overthrew Ukraine after you have the audio recordings of Victoria Nuland at first saying that Vitaly Klitschko shouldn't be the next leader

I explained point by point how you went from fact from fiction - that's what "gray" does. I further asked a question: now that we know that her line was compromised, why is it the worst that they could produced? Why are there no other recordings? Crickets.

richwicks says

Who cares about MH17? It's to no advantage of either the Ukrainians or the Russians to shoot down a commercial airliner. It was an accident, and then it was nothing more than fodder for propaganda. It doesn't matter who shot them down, it was an accident.

Bullshit. There is a reason why Rashists denied it with such vigor. If they admitted that, then they would also have to admit sending BUK and the crew to Ukraine, something that they viciously denied. Accident? Sure. "Doesn't matter?" Oh, sure it does. It pulls the ground from the likes of you who claim "civil war" lead by "farmers and coal miners" against evil Kyiv.

Is that all? No, that's not all. You challenged me on examples of Rashist propaganda making shit up. I produced such examples. I specifically picked MH17 because it's well documented. This is when you either debate the fact or shut up. Shut up after you explain why you challenged me in the first place that is. Where you not aware of the blatant lies of Rashists propaganda?

mostly reader says

I explained point by point how you went from fact from fiction

Again, your reasoning is, well, obviously fallacious to me.

Either you can't reason, or you are a troll. We are at an impasse. I can't see any reason to engage with talking to somebody who thinks they are being reasonable and to me, seems obviously unreasonable.

I could spend some time explaining why it's irrelevant how long the protests were going for, that Nuland had a single recording intercepted and may very well (and most likely was) having conversations FAR in advance about how to shape the Ukrainian government. I could point out that Zelenskyy was offered a negotiated deal brokered by France and Germany to avoid this war, and that he was told to encourage a conflict.

But you can't reason, so why expend the energy.

richwicks says

Again, your reasoning is, well, obviously fallacious to me.

Your opinion is irrelevant. Just focus on the "Now that we know that her line was compromised, why are there no other recording?" question.

On the second point, have you accepted that Rashists propaganda just makes shit up and runs with it?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Again, your reasoning is, well, obviously fallacious to me.

Your opinion is irrelevant.

I wouldn't consider it an opinion, it's a regrettable conclusion.

Either you're a troll - i.e. you are simply lying in order to get a response, or you cannot reason. In any case, I've concluded that it's a waste of my time to converse with you.

richwicks says

I wouldn't consider it an opinion, it's a regrettable conclusion.

Your conclusions are like your opinions: subject to be ignored. They are irrelevant for the lack of merit and general lunacy of the carrier.

Have you accepted that Rashist propaganda makes shit up and runs with it? Or will you again pretend that this conversation never happened and employ the whack-a-mole technique?

Patrick says

I really do find it odd, that American government and the left are so invested into Ukraine. Ukraine isn't leftist, they hate gays there, they are not even on same continent. Yet left goes out of the way in this war. Feels like the left is still fighting the cold war or something... not sure... but it has nothing to do with any of us. Just the extravagances of the billionaire ruling class.

https://twitter.com/CovertShores/status/1514310116211843075?source=patrick.net

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

I really do find it odd, that American government and the left are so invested into Ukraine. Ukraine isn't leftist, they hate gays there, they are not even on same continent. Yet left goes out of the way in this war.

I think you're confusing "the left" with "the establishment".

Just like our media characterizes "the right" as being fascist, neo-nazi, Putin lovers, they characterize "the left" as agreeing with everything the establishment does. The "left" I think you complain about are actually just NPCs, not the real left.

The true left and right ignore propaganda, but there's a lot less of them than I previously imagined although the numbers are growing. There's a lot of people on "the left" that aren't on board with the LGBTQ crap for example.

I think the penultimate uncontrollable person is somebody that won't label themselves as either left or right - of course, this is a bit of arrogance on my part, because I'm part of that penultimate uncontrollable group, or at least I may delusionally believe I am. We all think we're right otherwise we wouldn't be the way we are. It will be interesting if I find out, once again, I was wrong in time. Gone through that a few dozen times.