patrick.net

For more than a week, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has called for a no-fly zone over his country, which would mean that U.S. and NATO assets would be used to potentially shoot down Russian planes and missiles, which could escalate the conflict. Inside the United States, at least one member of Congress, Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.), proposed a no-fly zone—drawing significant condemnation.

“We understand the desperation but we also believe that if we did that (a no-fly zone) we would end up with something that could lead to a full-fledged war in Europe involving much more countries and much more suffering,” Stoltenberg said.

Stoltenberg said that the only way a no-fly zone could be enforced would entail NATO planes shooting down Russian ones.

“Allies agree we should not have NATO planes operating over Ukrainian airspace or NATO troops operating in Ukrainian territory,” the NATO chief said.

Meanwhile, Zelensky and others have called on NATO to send warplanes to Ukraine, which is not a member of NATO or the European Union. About a week ago, reports indicated that some NATO members would send fighter jets to Ukraine but it never materialized. Some NATO members and partners have sent weapons, including anti-tank missiles to Ukraine since the conflict erupted on Feb. 24.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/nato-rejects-no-fly-zone-over-ukraine-amid-damage-to-nuclear-plant_4316636.html?source=patrick.net

"You are of no more use to us, useful idiot Ukraine! We leave you to your fate and the tender mercies of Russia!"

Ceffer says

"You are of no more use to us, useful idiot Ukraine! We leave you to your fate and the tender mercies of Russia!"

(Liberal pushing the Cancel button on Russia) "I'm helping!"

War would poll unpopular in an election year, and it would drag on for a decade or more. Joe Biden is not a strong leader with low polling, or a war would help him. America has never faced adversity like this with a weak tepid leader like Biden. Well we've never had a weak tepid leader like Biden. So his advisers will stir clear of a declaration of war.
But the sanctions, and the all out Cancel Culture tactics they are deploying is more insidious than actually waging war. I don't think Russia would have been canceled to the extent, that the Western cultures are willing to punish anyone and everyone from Russia regardless of their pollical stance on this issue, in a classic war model.

We're playing a deadly game with gasoline and fire. I would be less scared if we actually faced Russia head on, rather than stirring the pot from afar, trying to cancel them like he's a Hollywood producer, and we dug up some lying rape victim. While we're resting on our laurels, that this gambit will be effective, Putin very well may Nuke strike us, if driven to that level of desperation. I don't think he would under a conventional war.

Literally EVERY asshole from Cheney to Kinzinger to Miss Lindsay to Mittens to McConnell is banging the war drum on Ukraine.

The same people who hated Trump or stabbed him in the back, notorious Oligarch Fluffers.

"What a coincidence"

https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=194469&source=patrick.net
"Standing nearly alone to tell the American people the truth about the “Special De-Nazification Operation” to liberate Ukraine, this report concludes, is retired United States Army Colonel Douglas Macgregor, Ph.D., the former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense—during the Gulf War it saw Colonel Macgregor masterminding the “Battle of 73 Easting”, that was “the 6th largest tank battle in American history” and “the last great tank battle of the 20th century” where he led a contingent consisting of 19 Tanks, 26 Bradley Fighting Vehicles and 4 M1064 Mortar Carriers through the sandstorm to the 73 Easting at roughly 16:18 hours on 26 February 1991 destroyed almost 70 Iraqi armored vehicles with no U.S. casualties in a 23-minute span of the battle—today sees Colonel Macgregor being one of the world’s foremost experts on the type of conflict being waged in Ukraine, which is why over the past decades he has appeared as a defense analyst on Fox News, CNN, BBC, Sky News, as well as numerous other European news outlets, because he’s fluent in German—but during this present conflict has been banned by everyone except fearless Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who this past week interviewed Colonel Macgregor—and sees the military genius Colonel Macgregor being banned because he assessed:

Moscow wants a neutral, not aligned Ukraine that is not hostile to Russia.

The model is Austria and its State Treaty of 1955.

Russia has already surrounded and cut off the Ukrainian forces east of the Dnieper River.

Ukraine would need a resolution of some kind to stop this war.

If this fails, Russia will crush the Ukrainian forces, advance beyond the Dnieper River and sanitize or declare eastern Ukraine an independent Russian Republic.

Given the conformation of eastern Ukraine, it can keep away from the Dnieper River any western force that tries to cross it, that would encounter certain destruction by conventional means.

How long can the Ukrainian army resist the Russian advancements? The maximum 30 days.

And the economic sanctions won’t stop Moscow. Did the sanctions force Moscow to leave Crimea?

Have sanctions forced Iran to submit to the demands of the United States? No. Sanctions don’t change governments."

From what I hear from those closer by I have to agree that the news does not seem to report what is really happening, I was doubting my doubts for a while, but after last night's nuclear reactor debacle I can believe that it's at least 50% propaganda. I hope everyone stays safe regardless, but it's maddening that we can't rely on the "news" at all anymore, and the bias/propaganda seems to get crazier each day.

Where's Christiane Armanpour? First invasion she's not in the tallest building, giving 10 minute updates in front of a window.

That's another reason I think everything is bullshit.

Started with the one CNN guy who wanted to interview the Ukrainians who he was told beat back the Russian airborne assault on the airport, turned out the UA Soldiers he was interviewing were like "WE are the Russians, dumbass".

Since then, mainstream media is just putting up UA propaganda shorts.

Ceffer says

Moscow wants a neutral, not aligned Ukraine that is not hostile to Russia.

Ukraine literally had non-aligned status written in their Constitution. Until on Feb 20, 2014 Russia decided it was an opportune time to take Crimea, to which it never made any official claims before, btw. As a result Ukraine has amended the Constitution replacing the non-aligned status with the statement of their NATO aspirations.

So cry me a fucking river, Mother Russia: you already had what you claim you want now. But you wanted Crimea more. Now you want to keep Crimea and get the non-aligned status back? Until another opportune time to take another piece? LOL "Fool me once..."

Eric Holder says

Ukraine literally had non-aligned status written in their Constitution. Until on Feb 20, 2014 Russia decided it was an opportune time to take Crimea, to which it never made any official claims before, btw. As a result Ukraine has amended their Constitution replacing the non-aligned status with statement regarding their NATO aspirations.

You're leaving a very important event out that happened in early February 2014 that started weeks earlier in Ukraine --- before Russia took back Crimea.

mell says

From what I hear from those closer by I have to agree that the news does not seem to report what is really happening, I was doubting my doubts for a while, but after last night's nuclear reactor debacle I can believe that it's at least 50% propaganda. I hope everyone stays safe regardless, but it's maddening that we can't rely on the "news" at all anymore, and the bias/propaganda seems to get crazier each day.

Of course. Does anyone think that at times of war there is much truth in what is said?
Each side will lie to its benefit.

Bd6r says

mell says

From what I hear from those closer by I have to agree that the news does not seem to report what is really happening, I was doubting my doubts for a while, but after last night's nuclear reactor debacle I can believe that it's at least 50% propaganda. I hope everyone stays safe regardless, but it's maddening that we can't rely on the "news" at all anymore, and the bias/propaganda seems to get crazier each day.

Of course. Does anyone think that at times of war there is much truth in what is said?
Each side will lie to its benefit.

"The first casualty of War is Truth"

AmericanKulak says

Eric Holder says

Ukraine literally had non-aligned status written in their Constitution. Until on Feb 20, 2014 Russia decided it was an opportune time to take Crimea, to which it never made any official claims before, btw. As a result Ukraine has amended their Constitution replacing the non-aligned status with statement regarding their NATO aspirations.

You're leaving a very important event out that happened in early February 2014 that started weeks earlier in Ukraine --- before Russia took back Crimea.

Everybody knows what happened before that. Nothing of which gave any justification for illegal annexation of Crimea. Internal affairs of a neighboring country. And pay close attention to the date mentioned above - Feb 20, 2014. This is the day operation to take Crimea was put in motion. On that day the guy who later fled was still sitting in the President's office. So nice try but no cigar.

Eric Holder says

Ukraine literally had non-aligned status written in their Constitution. Until on Feb 20, 2014 Russia decided it was an opportune time to take Crimea, to which it never made any official claims before, btw. As a result Ukraine has amended the Constitution replacing the non-aligned status with the statement of their NATO aspirations.

You left out the Kagan gang, and Kagan's wife Victoria "Fuck the Europeans" Nuland (US under-secretary of State in Obama administration, directly under Hitlery), staging the Madan coup in Ukraine, overthrowing the legitimately elected government of Ukraine, replacing it with an un-elected government, which then proceeded to terminate Russian lease on the Crimea/Sevastopol, which was/is the primary base of Russian navy, and practically the only non-freezing naval port that the Russian Navy has. The lease was part of the agreement for Ukraine independence and Russia assuming all USSR debt to begin with.

The Kagan gang of Neo-con chicken hawks have been neck deep in provoking overseas conflict and corruption schemes with foreign kleptocratic governments to profit themselves and corrupt politicians like Binden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romni, each of which has a son sitting on the boards of Ukrainian gas monopolies collecting loot at the expense of American and Ukrainian citizens alike.

Reality says

replacing it with an un-elected government, which then proceeded to terminate Russian lease on the Crimea/Sevastopol,

What? Who terminated what lease when again? On Feb 20, 2014 when the operation to take Crimea started the guy sitting in the president's office was the same guy who signed the lease. And the guys sitting in the Parliament were the same guys who ratified it. So nice try again, but no. You get an F for effort.

The Agreement between Ukraine and Russia on the Black Sea Fleet in Ukraine, widely referred to as the Kharkiv Pact (Ukrainian: Харківський пакт)[1][2] or Kharkov Accords (Russian: Харьковские соглашения),[3][4][5] was a treaty between Ukraine and Russia whereby the Russian lease on naval facilities in Crimea was extended beyond 2017 until 2042, with an additional five-year renewal option in exchange for a multiyear discounted contract to provide Ukraine with Russian natural gas.[6]

The agreement, signed on 21 April 2010 in Kharkiv, Ukraine, by Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dimitry Medvedev and ratified by the parliaments of the two countries on 27 April 2010, aroused much controversy in Ukraine. The treaty was effectively a continuation of the lease provisions that were part of the 1997 Black Sea Fleet Partition Treaty between the two states. Shortly after the March 2014 annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation,[7] Russia unilaterally terminated the treaty on 31 March 2014.

Eric Holder says

Everybody knows what happened before that. Nothing of which gave any justification for illegal annexation of Crimea. Internal affairs of a neighboring country. And pay close attention to the date mentioned above - Feb 20, 2014. This is the day operation to take Crimea was put in motion. On that day the guy who later fled was still sitting in the President's office. So nice try but no cigar.

No, why would an Elected President being removed by a Color Revolution financed by Western Oligarchs make Russia decide to take back Crimea?

That's when Azov Battalion appeared, and the anti-coup protesters were burned alive in an Odessa Office Building along with innocent Office Janitors and Workers, and Donetsk and Luhansk left in protest over the election being overthrown by SJW Purple Haired freaks with Soros Money.

And surprise! They cancelled the neutrality bit in the Constitution.

Reality says

You left out the Kagan gang, and Kagan's wife Victoria "Fuck the Europeans" Nuland (US under-secretary of State in Obama administration, directly under Hitlery), staging the Madan coup in Ukraine, overthrowing the legitimately elected government of Ukraine, replacing it with an un-elected government, which then proceeded to terminate Russian lease on the Crimea/Sevastopol, which was/is the primary base of Russian navy, and practically the only non-freezing naval port that the Russian Navy has. The lease was part of the agreement for Ukraine independence and Russia assuming all USSR debt to begin with.

The Kagan gang of Neo-con chicken hawks have been neck deep in provoking overseas conflict and corruption schemes with foreign kleptocratic governments to profit themselves and corrupt politicians like Binden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romni, each of which has a son sitting on the boards of Ukrainian gas monopolies collecting loot at the expense of American and Ukrainian citizens alike.

Yep, we literally have the memos from Wikileaks where they are debating which Oligarch is the best for carrying on their NATO expansive agenda. That's how Ukraine got Porky Pig The Chocolate King. And a couple of years later, he openly bragged about working with the DNC to stop Trump:

AmericanKulak says

No, why would an Elected President being removed by a Color Revolution financed by Western Oligarchs make Russia decide to take back Crimea?

I don't know. Gives no legal reason for sure. Just like Kennedy's assasination didn't suddently cancel Lusiana purchase.

But he wasn't even removed from the office on the day the plan was set in motion - Feb 20, 2014.

So it's double fail and time travel chicanery.

Eric Holder says

AmericanKulak says

No, why would an Elected President being removed by a Color Revolution financed by Western Oligarchs make Russia decide to take back Crimea?

I don't know. Gives no legal reason for sure. Just like Kennedy's assasination didn't suddently cancel Lusiana purchase.

But he wasn't even removed from the office on the day the plan was set in motion - Feb 20, 2014.

So it's double fail and time travel chicanery.

No, the protesters were "only" in control of multiple government buildings on the 18th. Also, Lvov declared independence (that separatism was okay, since they are militantly anti-Russian) that day.

The writing was on the wall.

This was also the SECOND time the West financed Coups in Ukraine, the first was the Orange Revolution in 2004-2005.

The overarching plot is clear.

I won't get into the fact that Crimea was part of Russia for longer than the US existed, it being part of Ukraine only happened around 1960 when Kruschev, whose base of power was in THE Ukraine (Ukraine meaning border, frontier, or march, and nobody in English visits South of Border or go to Frontier, they go to THE Frontier. Compare "THE Krahina" in Serbo-Croatian, same meaning, also Slavic language) needed to be able to offer villas and seaside resort time to supporters. That the ethnic makeup of Crimea is overwhelmingly Russian and Russian speaking, and they were fine and dandy and much happier to be Russian than Ukrainian - no more Ukrainian Oligarchs building mansions on public property or in public parks.

Eric Holder says

What? Who terminated what lease when again? On Feb 20, 2014 when the operation to take Crimea started the guy sitting in the president's office was the same guy who signed the lease. And the guys sitting in the Parliament were the same guys who ratified it. So nice try again, but no. You get an F for effort.

The lease was originally signed/started in 1997. None of the guys in control of Ukraine since 2014 was in any position to sign the lease back in 1997. IIRC, Yanukovich was governor of Donetsk province, and Yuschenko was governor of Ukrainian Central Bank in 1997. The conflict between the two factions came to a head in 2014 on the issue of renewing the Russian lease on Sevastopol. Parlimentarians started having physical fights with each other in the Ukrainian Parliament. The Kagan gang (through his wife Victoria "Fuck the Europeans" Nuland as then under-secretary of State in Obama administration) spent billions of American taxpayer money astro-turfing a riot in Kiev overthrowing the sitting legitimately elected Ukrainian President Yanukovich, who responded by using his Presidential power inviting Russians to restore order; Russians refrained from enforcing order all over Ukraine chose to enforce order only in Crimea and quickly held a plebiscite, which resulted in an overwhelming majority voting for joining Russia. Crimea had been part of Russia until Soviet dictator "gifted" it to his home republic Ukraine in the late 1950's, and was/is populated by a large Russian majority.