patrick.net

AmericanKulak says

Keep in mind the Poles had been overlords of Ukraine historically for long periods, Lemberg/L'vov/Lviv was mostly a Polish city historically.

And right after WWII a large chick of Poland was cut off and added to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. Belarus took a chunk as well.

It's always annoying when NYT shifts from Satanic Inversion lying propaganda, or plain lies, to mitigation gaslighting propaganda. They also use childish language, like they are writing for eight year olds.

Ceffer says

It's always annoying when NYT shifts from Satanic Inversion lying propaganda, or plain lies, to mitigation gaslighting propaganda. They also use childish language, like they are writing for eight year olds.

They keep switching because their base is gone. That's not a bad thing. They are trying to find a new base.

I read the NY Times a few times in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I found it very verbose with very little actual information in it. It wasn't anywhere near as bad as Rolling Stone, but every fucking paragraph has to have at least one line of information for me to read it, and the NY Times didn't follow that rule even then. Every story was padded out.

I used to think the journalists were just stupid, or that they believed their audience was stupid so they wrote lightly so as not to overwhelm them - NOPE - it's just to make people waste their time looking for anything in 2000 words that could have been written trivially in 200.

"US overthrows Ukrainian government. Victoria Nuland in an intercepted phone call with Geoffrey Pyatt posted on Feb 4, 2014 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM%2C has conversation in which Nuland decides Arseniy Yatseniuk will be next Prime Minster of Ukraine, 18 days before Viktor Yanukovych fless office on Feb 22, 2014. Press concentrates on the fact that she used vulgarity, ignores US interference in Ukrainian government."

Imagine if news was like that? Factually correct and straight to the point, but instead you gave 4 pages of bullshit to find it, if you get it at all.

richwicks says

goofus - I recommend Ryan Dawson - he's arrogant, can be over-bearing, and is bitter - but he does quite a bit of due diligence to be correct. https://www.ancreport.com/

podcasts: https://www.ancreport.com/category/podcast/
documentaries: https://www.ancreport.com/category/documentary/
news: https://www.ancreport.com/category/report/

I'll warn you, the documentaries are EXTREMELY dense. I find him to be reliable, but he hides sources at times but I've never known him to lie or knowingly spread bad information, but he DOES make mistakes. Who doesn't?

+1

I find Dawson at least as credible as Unz, and he seems to be getting some pretty good traction on the alterweb.

Prigozhin doesn't believe in Ukrainian Nazi being real and dangerous:

By Andrew Osborn

LONDON (Reuters) – Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin said on Friday that the official Kremlin-backed version of why Moscow invaded Ukraine was based on lies concocted by his perennial adversary – the army’s top brass.

Prigozhin has for months been accusing Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Russia’s top general, Valery Gerasimov, of rank incompetence, but on Friday he for the first time rejected Russia’s core justifications for invading Ukraine on Feb. 24 last year in what it calls a “special military operation”.

“… the Defence Ministry is trying to deceive society and the president and tell us a story about how there was crazy aggression from Ukraine and that they were planning to attack us with the whole of NATO,” Prigozhin said in a video clip released on Telegram by his press service, calling the official version “a beautiful story”.

“The special operation was started for different reasons,” he said. “The war was needed … so that Shoigu could become a marshal … so that he could get a second ‘Hero’ [of Russia] medal. The war wasn’t needed to demilitarise or denazify Ukraine.”

He also said the war had been needed to acquire “material assets” to divide among the ruling elite.

Prigozhin portrays his Wagner private militia, which spearheaded the capture of the city of Bakhmut last month, as Russia’s most effective fighting force, and has enjoyed unusual freedom to publicly criticise Moscow, albeit not President Vladimir Putin, on whose support he ultimately depends.

Yet his latest assertion runs directly counter to the rationale for the war espoused by Putin, who said when sending his armed forces into Ukraine that it was to demilitarise and denazify a country that posed a threat to Russia.

The Kremlin leader casts the conflict as an existential struggle against a Western alliance that wants to use Ukraine as a platform to destroy Russia.

There was no immediate response from the Defence Ministry, which has ignored previous complaints from Prigozhin, in public at least. Nor was there any immediate reaction from the Kremlin, which has declined in the past to comment on Prigozhin’s outbursts.

(Reporting by Andrew Osborn; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

Benjamin Fulford says that Prigozhin is Khazarian Mafia controlled opposition. His loyalty is to make the stack of body organ donating dead Slavs higher with the trafficking sale of their women and children into slavery on the other side. As an oracle of truth, he is more like the dirty fork that the Russians use, then clean, and then pass on for some other task. Russia allowed a mafia to clean out Bakhmut for concessions, a conservative use of military assets. Prigozhin's blustering is baloney that he gets away with for the duration.

The holding back of ammunition by Russia was a recoiling from the rampant slaughters of his 'Dirty Dozen' troops that shocked even his employers.

Yaroslav Hunka is a veteran of the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, a Nazi Germany military formation. He is an ethnic Ukrainian, born in Urman, which was in Poland at that time, and volunteered for SS Galizien in 1943. Canada's House Speaker, Anthony Rota, praised Hunka as a "hero" during a visit by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. However, several Jewish groups responded with outrage, saying that Hunka had served in a Nazi unit known as the 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS, which fought alongside Germany during World War II and declared allegiance to Adolf Hitler.

https://www.racket.news/p/justin-trudeaus-nazi-hot-take-flexibility?publication_id=1042&post_id=137394071&isFreemail=true&r=6gdz

Let me get this straight:

A year and a half ago, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau denounced a Jewish member of parliament named Melissa Lantsman for standing with “people who wave swastikas.” Lantsman had criticized Trudeau for fanning “the flames of an unjustified national emergency” in response to the “Freedom Convoy” trucker protests. The “swastikas” Trudeau referenced were, as even Snopes conceded, virtually all “pictured on signs as a way of mocking and protesting government restrictions,” comme ça:




By saying Lantsman stood with “people who wave swastikas,” in other words, Trudeau really meant she was standing with “people who called me a Nazi.” He declined to apologize, which of course is his prerogative.

This week, both Trudeau and House of Commons Speaker Anthony Rota are under fire after Rota invited, and Trudeau applauded, a 98-year-old former soldier from the 14th Waffen-SS Grenadier Division named Yaroslav Hunka to attend an address by Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky. Rota praised Hunka as a “Canadian hero” from his time fighting the Soviets in World War II when, not that it matters, they were allies to the United States and Canada. Leaving the elderly Hunka out of this for the moment, these politicians could easily have turned up the man’s blogs about joining Hitler’s army, making the applause scene at least approach the max on the cringe scale:




... To recap: Trudeau in a clear act of official disinformation smeared thousands of Canadian protesters as Nazis last year with context-twisting descriptions of a few decidedly un-representative photos. Now, after the Speaker of the House of Commons invited an ex-Nazi to parliament in a planned political act that had to be somewhat representative of the thinking of Trudeau’s Liberal government, the Prime Minister is complaining about “Russian disinformation,” as if that were to blame for this optics Hindenburg. As the CBC put it:

"Trudeau warned that this event may fuel Russian propaganda. Russian President Vladimir Putin has claimed the Ukraine conflict is about rooting out Nazis."

Dude, Vladimir Putin didn’t invite a Nazi to parliament, your government did. Do Davosketeers like Trudeau have anything inside, like shame or their own thoughts, or are they just manicured readers of talking points? Sheesh. It’s almost funny, how repugnant these people are.

Zelensky is ethnically Jewish, but seems to have no problem at all with employing literal Hitler-worshipping Nazis to fight against Russia.

I admit it's strange, but it's a fact.

I think the civil war in Ukraine has typical causes:

- resources (nat gas) in an area populated by an ethnic minority
- ethnic minority same as majority in much larger neighbor

This is exactly why Saudi Arabia hates Shiites so much. They are a minority living directly on most of the Saudi oilfields, and are the same religion as Iran, which is a much larger country.

I don't think America has the right to dictate who will be in charge of Ukraine any more than Russia has the right to dictate who will be in charge of Mexico.

https://twitter.com/mgeist/status/1706648636887577006

Big_Johnson says

The US can’t really dictate who is in charge in Ukraine.

The US did replace the democratically elected government of Ukraine with a different one. Mostly Nuland's doing.

Big_Johnson says

Obviously Ukrainians should be in charge of their country.

They're not though. The US is.

Big_Johnson says

You want as much Russians dead as possible.

What did Russians ever do to you?

Big_Johnson says

their madman in charge started

Putin seems entirely sane to me. It's "Biden", by which I mean Nuland and Blinken, who seem insane to me.

And the war was deliberately provoked. The US State Department talked about just how the US could provoke Russia to attack, and then did exactly that.

Big_Johnson says

That is the only way to prevent them from future invasions.

The US is a glass house there.

What's stopping the US from attacking more countries?

https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/nobody-who-fought-against-russia?publication_id=82124&post_id=137415129&isFreemail=true&r=6gdz

Just because Ukraine has Nazi paramilitaries and just because it’s impossible to take photos of Ukrainian soldiers without capturing Nazi insignia and just because Ukrainian Nazis get applauded in parliament doesn’t mean we’re on the side of the Nazis, you crazy Russian shill.



Western minds have become so warped by cold war hysteria these last few years that it never occurred to a single person in an entire giant room full of professional politicians that someone who fought against Russia during World War II might be a bad guy. Having fought against Russia at any point in history is just reflexively assumed to have put you on the right side.

Remember when US liberals were conditioned to hate Russia by a completely false narrative which was fed to the media by the western intelligence cartel, while the west was engaging in actions that same intelligence cartel knew would provoke a war with Russia? Crazy coincidence. ...

I love how it’s no longer seriously disputed that NATO expansion provoked this war and even the head of NATO now admits it, so now empire apologists’ only argument is claiming that Russia simply shouldn’t have viewed NATO expansion as a threat. As though that’s an answer.

They work so hard on internet control for the same reason they’ve worked so hard on media control: to control the public. The easiest way to control people is to control how they think, and the easiest way to control how they think is to control what information they consume.

When Russia and China draw a “red line”, it’s about a threat to their national security on their own borders. When the US draws a “red line”, it’s about the internal affairs of another country on the other side of the world.

Propaganda sucklers will be propaganda sucklers and propaganda rebroadcast booths. It's like my liberal friend in Santa Cruz who asked me 'why do you think so much. Just play music, relax, surf, and go with the flow', as if the propaganda made life easier and more pleasant and didn't require examination or reprocessing. Propaganda is the GMO pre-digested fast food with sports column chit sheets, all prepared for easy consumption, with winners, score cards, losers, apocryphal temporary victories, crowd cheering sound tracks, fake villains and fake heroes. I'm glad my friend said that, because propaganda is the fast food of shallow minds.

Of course, propaganda also serves the vacuously amoral, who think they have a horse in the race rather than being a variation of useful idiot.

I told him last year he was brainwashed and all of his standard sources were rivers of pollution and lies. He has started to come around on a few things. I think I electro shocked him into some awareness because I just can't stand it any more. We are still good friends and have common ground on a lot of things.

Making better sense of the world requires a devotion to truth and annoying work.

Big_Johnson says

Ceffer, how do you know what propaganda is and what the truth is?

That's rich coming from you.

Big_Johnson says

The US can’t really dictate who is in charge in Ukraine.

But that's exactly what we did!

Ten percent for the big guy.

Schokolade says

He would be the first nazi-jew that I know.

Fritz Haber was Jewish. He created the Haber process which is essential to modern farming, it makes ammonium nitrate. He also invented mustard gas, and a little known chemical called Zyklon B.

We are fed complete bullshit about WWII.

Schokolade says

Ceffer, how do you know what propaganda is and what the truth is?

Read these 100 books, then get back to me. You will have a test and will receive a grade. Thanks for keeping an open mind.
"100 Best Propaganda Books of All Time"
https://www.shortform.com/best-books/genre/best-propaganda-books-of-all-time

Schokolade says

Ceffer, how do you know what propaganda is and what the truth is?

@Schokolade - I'll tell you how to differentiate, and it's not that hard. Any lie, has contradictions, just like any story has plot holes. It takes a LOT OF WORK to make your story internally consistent.

All you have to do is spot a contradiction. For example - here is a piece of propaganda:


original link

You might be asking what is wrong. Well, first the "Ukrainian pilot" doesn't have a Ukrainian accent. Second, fighter pilots can't have beards. Most people don't realize this, but anybody that has been in the airforce knows this. You need a fairly decent seal for the oxygen mask, and you can't have that with a beard.

The original is from here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x0l6rSAtrM

Now, how likely is it that somebody paid 10 million dollars a year, didn't have the resources to figure out 1) this isn't a Ukrainian accent and 2) fighter pilots don't have beards? The answer is no chance. From this point forward you ignore anything Anderson Cooper has to say.

What will happen, in time, is you will eliminate everybody on television, then you will eliminate everybody in corporate media.

What are the chances that the EDITOR of The Atlantic didn't know he was lying when he wrote this:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

Trump when to a military academy as a child. Do you honestly think Trump is that dumb?

The only people who AREN'T propaganda are either famous enough that they cannot be deplatformed easily (like Russel Brand) or have been deplatformed, like Glenn Greenwald. I have a list of people I do trust if you want them.

Don't waste your time listening to people who lie to you. They don't ALWAYS lie, so don't assume that everything they say is false. That's not always the case - just completely ignore them.

Schokolade says

Huh? I legitimately want to know how ceffer is so convinced what the truth is vs propaganda. In todays world the internet is full of BS. So what’s your method?

YOU spout all kinds of propaganda garbage, is what I was referring to.

Schokolade says

All kinds? Can you name one? Just one?

Stop your trolling. It's sooo damn obvious.

Trollhole says

Schokolade says

Huh? I legitimately want to know how ceffer is so convinced what the truth is vs propaganda. In todays world the internet is full of BS. So what’s your method?

YOU spout all kinds of propaganda garbage, is what I was referring to.

Most people do. They have no filter.

It does take some effort to have a filter, and it takes time.

I want to point out that propaganda isn't necessarily false, it's just something designed to set an opinion in a person, doesn't have to be a lie. However, for the purposes of my using that word, I mean it's false. I don't mind true propaganda so much, but even when you are telling the truth, you need to explain your reasoning to come to that conclusion, and to give sources for your reasoning. We all make mistakes, somebody telling you the truth, will DARE you to tell them they are wrong, and will want you to tell them they are wrong, if they've made a mistake.

That's the scientific method, and look at what it's done. You have a rug under you most likely, you have a computer or a phone, you have electric lighting. You have more wealthy and comfort than the richest king did just 300 years ago and I don't care who you are. Everybody here does. You can fly to the other side of the planet if you wish. You realize how unimaginable this was just 300 years ago?

richwicks says

I want to point out that propaganda isn't necessarily false,

You aren't pointing out shit.

You are just trolling.

Actually, this sounds exactly like the crap a ChatGPT bot spews out.

^^^ @Patrick

Trollhole says

richwicks says

I want to point out that propaganda isn't necessarily false,

You aren't pointing out shit.

You are just trolling.

Actually, this sounds exactly like the crap a ChatGPT bot spews out.

^^^ Patrick

Think what you wish, I'm a genuine human being in a sea of cattle.

Get your booster yet? Find that Russian Collusion yet? End that "humanitarian crisis that Qaddafi was about to cause" yet?

Did you know the Syrian war is still going on and the US is still involved with it? What's the mission?

The US is bombing Yemen and Somalia - for what purpose?

Don't you find it a little disturbing you don't know? I do. I find it highly disturbing in fact, because I don't know, and I can't find anybody that will give me a credible explanation. So, I'm paying through taxation to murder people 7000 miles away, and I don't even know why. Doesn't bother you does it? It bothers me, to an extreme.

Also Patrick knows me. I don't know what he thinks of me, that's private to him. I'm outspoken I admit, but I'm either human and this mass of dumbshits around me are cattle, or I'm superhuman, and I just don't know humanity. Maybe I'm something else, I could be insane I suppose.

I've given up on the 90%. There's that 10% that is worth helping.

richwicks says

Think what you wish, I'm a genuine human being

@Trollhole I actually know richwicks and he is indeed a genuine human being with his own opinions, not trolling.

To troll is to make deliberately inflammatory remarks for the fun of watching people get angry, or to derail a conversation because it is converging on an unwanted conclusion.

richwicks says

Schokolade says

He would be the first nazi-jew that I know.

Fritz Haber was Jewish. He created the Haber process which is essential to modern farming, it makes ammonium nitrate. He also invented mustard gas, and a little known chemical called Zyklon B.

We are fed complete bullshit about WWII.

Like Fritz Haber died in 1934.

He worked at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Advanced Sciences, but after Hitler's law banning Jews from the Civil Service, which included the Insititue, he decided to leave the Country. Einstein resigned his position at the Prussian Academy of Sciences about the same time.

Haber died en route to the Middle East, in a hotel in Basel, Switzerland.

His Zyklon-A was invented and used as a fumigant in Grain Stores during the Weimar Era in the 1920s. However, he did make and use Chemical Weapons for the Kaiser in World War I as many Allied Scientists did on the other sides of the conflict.

Sadly, Haber considered himself a German first, was center-right in his politics, and was at best a very lapsed/nominal Jew.

Patrick says

To troll is to make deliberately inflammatory remarks for the fun of watching people get angry, or to derail a conversation because it is converging on an unwanted conclusion.

I disagree.

Trolling in my opinion is making inflammatory FALSE statements to get people to respond in a flurry to correct you.

Our media does it all the time, or did. Now they don't allow feedback, so, they have become irrelevant.

OK, false and inflammatory.

AmericanKulak says

Like Fritz Haber died in 1934 after deciding to leave Nazi Germany, en route to the Middle East, in a hotel in Basel, Switzerland.

And his Zyklon-A was invented and used as a fumigant in Grain Stores during the Weimar Era in the 1920s.

How about that? You're correct, if I am to trust Wikipedia, and in this case, I do.

He did invent Zyklon-B though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber

I didn't know when he died, 1934. We all owe a debt to him. He was a brilliant man, although flawed perhaps, his invention of the Haber process was instrumental in our modern life. He did more for humanity than almost anybody I can think of.

Patrick says

OK, false and inflammatory.

The trick is to keep gaslighting us and to get us to respond to that, I think.

I remember being absolutely outraged when the "news" was caught in a lie, and even more so when they refused to correct it, and when nobody else in the "news" would point it out.

I used to think we had news. I used to think we had a free press. How naive I was. I was like 30 before I realized we were fed just a steady diet of bullshit. It's embarassing.

Patrick says

To troll is to make deliberately inflammatory remarks for the fun of watching people get angry, or to derail a conversation because it is converging on an unwanted conclusion.

That's right.

What about Shokolwhatever? He's the bot.

"The Ukrainian People's Republic fought the Bolshevik Red Army for three years (1918-1921) but lost its fight for independence."

After this eventually followed the Holomdor to break the spirit of Ukrainians who wanted independence from the Kremlin.

That is why a lot of Ukranians joined the German military (which the SS was the only unit recruiting), as a way to try to gain independence.

So a lot of the "Nazi" Ukrainians were more interested in Ukraine's independence than actually being a "Nazi".

And the same is today as far as Russia labeling Ukraine as a "Nazi" nation.

When Putin said Ukraine was the same as Russia, and that it should be part of Russia, that made a lot of Ukrainians upset as they recalled Stalin had the same views as far as control and used the Holomdor to force submission. One was forcing people to work on collective or socialist farms.

Russia looted a lot from Donbas starting in 2014. I've seen video footage of Russian soldiers leaving eastern region of Kiev with refrigerators, computers, etc.

ad says

When Putin said Ukraine was the same as Russia, and that it should be part of Russia, that made a lot of Ukrainians upset as they recalled Stalin had the same views as far as control and used the Holomdor to force submission. One was forcing people to work on collective or socialist farms.

Russia didn't care what Ukraine did, until they declared they were going to give up their independence, wanted to join the EU, and become part of NATO.

That's the root of the problem. If Ukraine just stopped their civil war, and agreed to stay independent, Russia wouldn't have cared.

richwicks says

Russia didn't care what Ukraine did, until they declared they were going to give up their independence, wanted to join the EU,

You had a Ukranian president who wanted closer ties to the Kremlin as in being like another Belarus. He was not neutral. He was pro Putin and Kremlin. That former president is now in Russia.

They need a neutral government in Ukraine, if that is possible. Maybe set up a equal coalition and bring in peacekeepers from Latin America for eastern Ukraine. That is one way to at least have an armistice.

Problem is as you get away from Donbas and reach the Dniper river, then pro-Russian sentiment is very weak to non existent.

And not everyone in eastern Ukraine was supportive of Russia's invasion.

.

Schokolade says

Source? Zerohedge?

Why do you support Nazis?

Schokolade says

All kinds? Can you name one? Just one?

You think Russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked.

Schokolade says

For instance: you said you are convinced user Bitcoin died of the jab.

Are you Bitcoin?

Trollhole says

What about Shokolwhatever? He's the bot.

I do suspect he's someone paid to be here, or maybe AI, but I don't really know. Just going by his recent appearance and the straight war-machine party line he takes.

If he's a person, then at least it's good that we get to talk to him about the fact of US provocation. If he's AI, it's hopeless.

But maybe it's good practice for what to do with people who just repeat the party line over and over without really debating anything. Default should be to ignore.

Then again, at some point that is actually trolling, because it's false and deliberately inflammatory.