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Taxes


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2022 Jul 11, 5:28pm   16,454 views  227 comments

by GreaterNYCDude   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

I've been thinking about this off and on lately, and there's been some recent threads related to the topic, so I figure I'll set up a separate thread.

Until the 16th ammendment was passed in the early 1900's, we got by without fedetal income taxes. Tariffs did the trick. Of course, we were not yet the superpower we became, huge millitary and all, and there were not nearly the federally funded social programs we have today.

Frankly, I don't think your average American realizes how heavily they are taxed. Federal. State (with some excaptions) Property. School. Gas. Sales. Etc.

For most in the middle and upper middle class, federal income tax is the biggest share of taxes paid on a percentage basis.

In a modern captalist economy, it makes more sense to me to tax consumption rather than income.

So why not abolish the federal income tax, and instead have a federal tax on goods and services rendered. Better yet, couple it with a balanced budget amment so that the government can't spend money they don't have.

Taxing goods should be straightforward to implement. Buy a bag of rice, clothes, a house, a car, stock, etc. tax it at a nominal rate to raise sufficent revenue to keep the government running. Tax should apply to individuals and corporations alike. I have no idea what the rate would need to be to replace the lost income income revenue, but there must be a way for the been counters to figure that out.

Same holds for services. From your lawyer to your plumber to your accountant.. services rendered should also be taxed... possibly at a different rate than physical goods, since we are a "service based economy".

Just thinking out loud here.. In the 21st century there MUST be a better way to raise revenue than income tax and the various loopholes used to reduce or even avoid ones tax burden.

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152   HeadSet   2024 May 24, 8:02am  

GreaterNYCDude says

Americans are heavily taxed

Some Americans. Most Americans are net tax collectors. with the bill being paid by earners outside the government sector and by government deficits and printing.
153   RWSGFY   2024 May 24, 8:59am  

NuttBoxer says


RWSGFY says


NuttBoxer says


Moving isn't necessary, renouncing citizenship is. Although even that seems questionable as they just arrested Crypto Jesus despite him living in Spain, and no longer being a US citizen.


He moved to Spain for lower taxes?



No idea.



I don't think Spain has lower taxes than US. They are way more Socialist than even Kommiefornia. Which makes it a weird destination to relocate to fir someone not keen on paying taxes.
154   WookieMan   2024 May 24, 10:06am  

HeadSet says

GreaterNYCDude says

Americans are heavily taxed

Some Americans. Most Americans are net tax collectors. with the bill being paid by earners outside the government sector and by government deficits and printing.

This. The whole Mitt Romney thing where he said 47% of people don't pay taxes or whatever it was is pretty true. He got one thing right at least... People bitch about taxes because it comes out of their checks and they see it. Most lower earners overpay and bitch and then get it refunded not knowing they pay nothing. Basically uneducated about how taxes work.

SS is a forced savings account and the medical stuff is for when you're old. Perfect system? Hell no, but it's there to help people that don't save. Also most people don't realize on the employer side they're paying 6.2% or whatever it is now for your social security as well.

Most people will never realize how it is until they get to about $150k+ annually. So "maybe" 25% of the population has a rough understanding of taxation. H&R Block exists for a reason. People have no clue how they're taxed so they just pay the McDonalds of accounting.
155   RWSGFY   2024 May 24, 10:16am  

Most people don't need anything more than the McD of accounting either.
156   HeadSet   2024 May 24, 10:45am  

WookieMan says

SS is a forced savings account

More like an insurance policy that anyone who lives to old age collects on.
163   fdhfoiehfeoi   2024 Jun 25, 7:36pm  

For context, $3,000 back then is equivalent to about $330k today:

"“No one who does not earn more than $3,000 a year will be affected by the tax. If you are single and earn $3,001 a year, you will be required to pay a tax of one percent on that additional dollar. If you are married, however, the income exemption is fixed at $4,000, allowing $1,000 extra exemption for the care of a wife.” 25 June 2024, Armstrong Economics."

- Sioux City Journal, 17 November 1913
168   WookieMan   2024 Jul 4, 2:47pm  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says





He can't tax EV's fully yet or he'd be a hypocrite. The day of reckoning is coming. CA is still a majority ICE vehicle state. They will start bitching if it's just gas tax and not related to oil prices. EV's will be taxed. Just wait.
174   clambo   2024 Sep 14, 5:21am  

You have to give Trump credit for clever shit to bug the tax and spend liberal idiots.
175   RC2006   2024 Sep 14, 3:53pm  

clambo says

You have to give Trump credit for clever shit to bug the tax and spend liberal idiots.


Absolutely they can't even say anything without looking like even bigger assholes and alienating more blue collar workers.
177   ForcedTQ   2024 Sep 19, 9:16pm  

DemocratsAreTotallyFucked says






And this right here is why we need to KILL CARB! That state agency has long run its course with regards to private transport and even over the road commercial regulations. The ICE vehicles that can be purchased today are so fucking clean that the cost of incremental improvement vs. benefits to society are just not there.

Fuck a bunch of unelected bureaucrats!
179   WookieMan   2024 Sep 20, 5:02am  

ForcedTQ says

And this right here is why we need to KILL CARB! That state agency has long run its course with regards to private transport and even over the road commercial regulations. The ICE vehicles that can be purchased today are so fucking clean that the cost of incremental improvement vs. benefits to society are just not there.

Fuck a bunch of unelected bureaucrats!

I've been telling you CA cats this for probably 2 years now. The dip shits in charge didn't think of the loss in gas tax (MFT) with more EV's being on the road. Wait till your electric rates go up even more. It's going to be a double whammy. I'm no Ph.D on this topic but I have a Bachelors from my wife's work, experience and talking with engineers that make your roads. You guys are fucked. EV or ICE.

The earthquake happened. The Tsunami of taxes is coming. IL isn't good, but we at least got our ass kicked already and are recovering. CA has a long way to go.... if it can even recover. You're the Greece of the USA. Not sure there's hope outside of foreign investment. You can make $300k anywhere in the country for 1/4 of the cost of living. The crash is coming for you guys.
183   clambo   2024 Oct 10, 11:37am  

Anecdote herewith:
I'm visiting in Santa Cruz, California. I'm taking Uber rides here and there.
Most of the drivers are foreigners; their country varies.
When I tell them that I departed California and save $6000 per year in California taxes because Florida has no income tax, they are very surprised.
They are unaware that states exist which have no income tax.
So far, I've saved over $24,000 that I did not send to the California Franchise Tax Board.
Florida also doesn't tax capital gains, dividends, estates, etc.
185   WookieMan   2024 Oct 11, 10:54pm  

clambo says

When I tell them that I departed California and save $6000 per year in California taxes because Florida has no income tax, they are very surprised.

We were close to moving to CA about 7 years back. It didn't make sense. We'd make the same and get taxed double. That's saying a lot from IL. I'm sure your fees are higher too, things like car registration. Higher gas prices. 5 hours to the Caribbean. Sorry, I have no interest in Hawaii.

We would have loved the weather for sure, but we're talking $40-50k per year. Considering we max out retirement funds we'd look rich on paper, but be poor. And I'll never rent again, so housing would suck up a huge chunk.
186   clambo   2024 Oct 11, 11:23pm  

Fees are all lower in Florida compared to California.
My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.
My dental, medical, and car insurance premiums are less in Florida.
187   Rin   2024 Oct 12, 7:19am  

Al_Sharpton_for_President says






Mel Gibson in 'The Patriot' said it the best ... why would I want 3000 tyrants, one mile away, versus one tyrant, 3000 miles away?
188   WookieMan   2024 Oct 12, 8:12am  

clambo says

My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.

I've heard different. Can the counties add on extra registration fees? Not questioning if you're right, you've lived there. I just recall my buddy saying his were insane there to register a car but that might have plate fees as well.

I don't know how you fund government without higher fees on something with no income tax. I imagine it's got to be the sales tax. I know beer is a fortune down there compared to IL. I've flown with cases of beer in checked bags to save $40-50 at least going to FL. I have a whole foam setup so baggage handlers don't break the cans.

We're wealthy for our age, but I'm a cheapskate. Southwest so two bags are free. Plus sometimes we get in late and I don't want to have to stop to crab a nightcap on vacation or stop at a bar and spend even more. Just get to the hotel or house and relax for an hour or two.
189   RC2006   2024 Oct 12, 8:23am  

clambo says

Fees are all lower in Florida compared to California.
My car registration was $250 per year in California, Florida it's about $50.
My dental, medical, and car insurance premiums are less in Florida.


Same in Idaho. California rips everyone off. I register my cars two years at a time and it's still half as much as one year in CA. Insurance, utilities, property tax all less.
Screw the extra you have to pay in taxes for all the illegals and grifters.
190   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 12, 10:44am  

My car insurance went up when I moved from CA to TX. I was surprised.
191   Maga_Chaos_Monkey   2024 Oct 12, 10:48am  

clambo says

So far, I've saved over $24,000 that I did not send to the California Franchise Tax Board.


About 50K for me so far...

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