patrick.net

I should clarify that the prices of gasoline and diesel started to diverge just a couple of weeks ago. Gasoline became cheaper and diesel price has not declined as much.
Perhaps this is because of supply and demand.

I am not sure if gasoline or diesel are taxed heavily in Illinois to explain the price difference.

My evidence is anecdotal since I looked only at the local gas stations. Perhaps the price difference is lower at the other gas stations.

NuttBoxer says

Yes, diesel engines are dirty, but they're more efficient, and not any more polluting.

My dad worked in the emissions testing part of Chrysler for a while, and told me that diesel particles are just the right size to get stuck in human alveoli at the bottom of the lungs and cause cancer. He was no environmentalist, so I'm pretty sure it's true.

tomtomtom says

I am not sure if gasoline or diesel are taxed heavily in Illinois to explain the price difference.

IL is going down a rabbit hole of shit to be honest. They suspended the MFT tax on fuel (which I think includes diesel). They suspended sales tax on groceries. That's how bad inflation has got. The IL Dems are hoping to not lose the midterms. I met my Fed House Rep (D) and she was fucking defeated. We all talked as a board with her for an hour. So one in 435 people in the US with that job. They are fucking scared and pulling out all the tricks that will have to be paid back in the future to win elections.

I don't get the difference in prices, but it has to do, in my opinion with Dem policies for "green" energy. I don't know if the Whiting, IN BP refinery does diesel either. So shipping, piping into IL might be a difference? That you use diesel to ship diesel with... lol. I really don't know energy markets outside of random listening to of news. I don't seek info out as I don't pay for fuel out of household finances. I feel for the people that are getting hit hard at the pump though.

Patrick says

NuttBoxer says

Yes, diesel engines are dirty, but they're more efficient, and not any more polluting.

My dad worked in the emissions testing part of Chrysler for a while, and told me that diesel particles are just the right size to get stuck in human alveoli at the bottom of the lungs and cause cancer. He was no environmentalist, so I'm pretty sure it's true.

Diesel is nasty. And Patrick is correct. When 50 cars drive by my house, don't smell a thing, and 300 yards away is a train track and I can smell diesel fumes from a train, yeah....

More efficient and longer running engines over time is 100% true. Navistar was (maybe still is) headquartered near me in Naperville. They got destroyed trying to make a cleaner engine for semi trucks. They spent a ton of money trying to engineer it and got killed. Proof that diesel is legit dirty. You wouldn't take on that project as one of the top engine makers in the world if diesel wasn't dirty.

EU taxes fuel (both diesel and gasoline) through the roof. However, high taxes have not stimulated any breakthrough in "green transportation". They are just driving smaller cars with smaller engines but the ICE technology is the same as everywhere else.

IL will have to increase some other taxes alot after the elections. The state is almost bankrupt.

It is surprising to me all the environmentalists are not discussing natural gas as fuel for cars. Natural has has burns cleaner than gasoline. It is cheaper than gasoline (does not require refineries etc). The tanks can be designed to last way more than 10y. Natural gas is used heavily in commercial fleet and in other countries. Honda sold Civics that could run on natural gas. It looked attractive to me but there is only one natural gas station nearby and it is inconvenient to operate the car in IL.

tomtomtom says

It is surprising to me all the environmentalists are not discussing natural gas as fuel for cars.

Hard core environmentalists do not want a substitute for the ICE that will keep everyone driving. The environmentalists want the masses to stop driving personal transportation completely. Their fear would be if in 10 years or so we have paper batteries giving cars a 500 mile range and fusion power stations to supply the juice.

tomtomtom says

EU taxes fuel (both diesel and gasoline) through the roof. However, high taxes have not stimulated any breakthrough in "green transportation". They are just driving smaller cars with smaller engines but the ICE technology is the same as everywhere else.

IL will have to increase some other taxes alot after the elections. The state is almost bankrupt.

It is surprising to me all the environmentalists are not discussing natural gas as fuel for cars. Natural has has burns cleaner than gasoline. It is cheaper than gasoline (does not require refineries etc). The tanks can be designed to last way more than 10y. Natural gas is used heavily in commercial fleet and in other countries. Honda sold Civics that could run on natural gas. It looked attractive to me but there is only one natural gas station nearby and it is inconvenient to operate the car in IL.

The range on NG is shit. That Civic could go something like 130 miles on one tank.

RWSGFY says

The range on NG is shit. That Civic could go something like 130 miles on one tank.

I've never looked into NG. Probably not good for loads/towing. It would likely be quicker (refueling) than EV charging though. My wife are rare in that we'll drive 300-400 miles once a day twice a month or more. So EV's or NG would be a bitch either way. We need ICE. I don't see that changing anytime soon. At least the next decade. I need to tow. And 3 kids also means bigger car.

WookieMan says

RWSGFY says

The range on NG is shit. That Civic could go something like 130 miles on one tank.

I've never looked into NG. Probably not good for loads/towing. It would likely be quicker (refueling) than EV charging though. My wife are rare in that we'll drive 300-400 miles once a day twice a month or more. So EV's or NG would be a bitch either way. We need ICE. I don't see that changing anytime soon. At least the next decade. I need to tow. And 3 kids also means bigger car.

NG is ICE, it's just the size and weight of the tank to hold it which puts limit on it usefulness. Add the limited lifespan of the tank and non-trivial const of replacement and it becomes a fucking joke. Where it is useful is in stuff like city buses and garbage trucks.

RWSGFY says

The range on NG is shit. That Civic could go something like 130 miles on one tank.

You just get a larger tank. It's natural GAS after all, or LNG in Australia.

It's cheap, clean burning, and your car can still burn conventional gasoline. It's stupid we don't have LNG vehicles in the United States. Instead we have hydrogen cars. Hydrogen is SUPER expensive in comparison to gasoline, and the hydrogen is made by steam reformation of natural gas anyhow.

NG offers 10% reduction in CO2 emissions after accounting for all its downsides (the lower power output and combustion efficiency). See the last page of https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy16osti/64267.pdf

The reduction of CO2 could be higher if they would redesign the engines to burn NG with higher efficiency.

Cost-wise, only electricity is cheaper than CNG: https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/prices.html

While electric vehicles are great. The deprecation costs, battery manufacturing and recycling, electricity distribution, and charging remain monumental issues to the technology. Vehicle deprecation contributes to about half of the overall cost per mile for non-commercial fleet.

Until we meet again.