patrick.net

Patrick says

We need soldiers who are explicitly instructed to disobey frauds and unconstitutional orders.

Why? They already don't follow their bullshit oath. The FIB are domestic enemies. Military doing anything about it?

richwicks says

Why? They already don't follow their bullshit oath. The FIB are domestic enemies. Military doing anything about it?

Quite a few have rejected the jab at the risk of their careers.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

Why? They already don't follow their bullshit oath. The FIB are domestic enemies. Military doing anything about it?

Quite a few have rejected the jab at the risk of their careers.

Yeah, they didn't want to die suddenly. That's for their own personal safety. I don't blame them.

You let me know when anybody in the military is going to do anything about the people and organizations that are directly attacking the Constitution in this country. They are easy to find. They are in Langley Virginia, Washington DC, Wall Street NY, and spread all over Silicon Valley.

The oath they all took, absolute bullshit. Military is as corrupt, if not MORE corrupt, than the federal government. They are the enforces of this criminality. They don't protect against criminality, they protect the criminals. They will turn their guns against common citizens before they'll ever turn their guns against assholes like Hunter Biden, Jamie Dimon, Mark Zuckerberg, or John Brennan. These people are BLATANT criminals. Military will never do anything about it.

cisTits says

interpreting regs to a superior officer is a court-martial offense. Hell, just quoting them are.

@cisTits Is this true?

I believe some members here are ex military, so not trying to knock anyone as I have friends and former people I grew up with that were military. Your average soldier is a moron. Most were recruited because they were about to graduate (or not) high school and had zero plans for their future. No job prospects, so they just joined one of the services.

Then they're lauded with praise and fly overs at stupid sporting events for getting through basic training and sitting at bases. Yes we lost people in Afghanistan, Iraq and other conflicts. During that 20 year period we lost more to murder in just Chicago alone... It's laughable how blind people are.

Our jingoistic nature is stupid. 90% of soldiers just sit at a base, practice to kill people, sleep, eat and shoot the shit with their fellow soldiers while being paid with free (to them) lodging. How is that any different than blacks on Section 8 in Chicago at war with each other? Fact is most soldiers are just brain washed because they were uneducated morons. Harsh take, but I've found it to be factually true outside of a few positions like the guys that operate nuclear subs and ships.

And the career military guys like West Point grads are all trust fund shit heads that are probably equally as dumb or are friends/kids of/with weapons and MIC equipment builders.

cisTits says

Also, interpreting regs to a superior officer is a court-martial offense. Hell, just quoting them are.

MANUAL
FOR
COURTS-MARTIAL
UNITED STATES
(2019 EDITION)

https://jsc.defense.gov/Portals/99/Documents/2019%20MCM%20(Final)%20(20190108).pdf?ver=2019-01-11-115724-610

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/USCODE-2011-title10/html/USCODE-2011-title10-subtitleA-partII-chap31-sec502.htm#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%2C%20___________________%2C%20do%20solemnly,and%20the%20orders%20of%20the

cisTits says

Hell, just quoting them are.

With all due respect I have questioned regulations etc. with officers during my term of service but did so in a non threatening manner which resulted in a spirited debate, if nothing else and I did not get Court Martialed.

WookieMan says

Then they're lauded with praise and fly overs at stupid sporting events for getting through basic training and sitting at bases

And who keep pushing these dog and pony shows and why ? Try to stop them and you will be deemed a traitor, treasonous, commie, anarchist, Antifa, etc.

WookieMan says

guys that operate nuclear subs and ships.

When those men and women are done with their 6 years - they are difficult to place, retain and motivate. They are equally brainwashed in a manner that is not very compatible with those who were not in that discipline or even served.

WookieMan says

Most were recruited because they were about to graduate (or not) high school and had zero plans for their future. No job prospects, so they just joined one of the services.

Not seeing the problem, if they go to a class "A" school and learn a marketable skill.

Then again if military members were paid a competitive wage other than competing with part time at McDonalds or Wal-Mart, just possible we may get and retain a better group of people.

But who really cares. When the bullets start flying and we need cannon fodder, no one we know personally involved so they don't mind and we don't matter - right ?

DD214 says

But who really cares. When the bullets start flying and we need cannon fodder, no one we know personally involved so they don't mind and we don't matter - right ?

Like I said, no disrespect to military as not all are morons, but this statement is factually true. No one "actually" cares unless their kid is in the service. Everyone claps and cheers during these fly overs and on Veterans day and then goes back to not caring at all.

No one cares about blacks murdering each other in droves in Chicago either. If you don't see it you don't care. Just bury your head in your cell phone for two hours looking at Tik Tok clips, eat dinner, more dumb videos and go to bed. That's our society...

Patrick says

We need soldiers who are explicitly instructed to disobey frauds and unconstitutional orders.

Patrick, after you enlist, you are free to disobey any order at any time, there is no one holding you back. The only thing you have to be willing to do is accept the consequences of your decisions just like in the non military world.

Would I have listened to a lawful but stupid order that would have cost me my life or that of someone else ? No.

Was I ever put in that position, No.

Thankfully I got to serve with some decent people who did not shoot from the hip when giving commands or orders and 95% of the time everything that came my way was in the form of a request or directive and mostly "see if you can make this happen", or "can you take care of this" with a wink of the eye meaning the circular file would get used that day.

WookieMan says

And the career military guys like West Point grads are all trust fund

You do not know what you are talking about. I am an AF Academy grad and I do not know of any super wealthy cadets. I knew a very few who were general's kids, but the overwhelming number of cadets were from average homes.

WookieMan says

Most were recruited because they were about to graduate (or not) high school and had zero plans for their future.

Hmm. If one has not decided on a career right out of high school, military offers training in:
Air Traffic Controller (yes, that is an enlisted position)
Jet engine mechanic (stay civilian and do vo-tech then a stint at Big Al's Chevrolet, or get to work on F-16s)
Medical Field (stay civilian and sweep floors at the Rite Aid, or become an actual pharm tech or med tech)
Logistics (stay civ and stock shelves at Walmart, or train to work with million-dollar inventories with advanced computer systems)
Army Helicopter Pilot (yes, high school to flight school)
Civil Engineering (stay civ and be a helper with Joe's Heating and Air, or train on large facilities structure and maintenance.

None of these positions are for dumb people.

WookieMan says

Most were recruited because they were about to graduate (or not) high school and had zero plans for their future. No job prospects, so they just joined one of the services.

How is this different than any time since the 1950s ?

The branches of the service have trained an awful lot of people to be productive when they return to civilian life.

DD214 says

Then again if military members were paid a competitive wage other than competing with part time at McDonalds or Wal-Mart,

Not sure when you were active duty, but you may want to check the current enlisted pay. For a real test, compare 4 years in the military vs 4 years at McDs. Also remember that only the "Base Pay" is taxed. The "allowances", such as for housing and clothing, do not even show up on the W2. Medical and dental are totally free with no copays.

@Headset

I am Vietnam era so when you left base, you were a lookie loo on most things since the salaries were so miserable. Got to see a few decent bumps but not enough to make a difference. Never the less I had numerous collateral duties and exposure to events and people I would not have gotten anywhere else.

What saved me was my training since I got into "A" school right after recruit training and my father had the foresight to notify my last employer I would return in 4 years so I got $$ from the Steelworkers Union every year plus my job back with seniority.

The "A" school training has been the gift that keeps on giving to this day. Same thing with the Dale Carnegie course my employer sent me through.

DD214 says

I am Vietnam area

Yes, Vietnam era was coolie wages even for officers. But after 1980 or so, the military went to competitive pay while still having the 20 year retirement benefit. A colonel retiring today with 26 years is essentially a millionaire. Not too shabby for E8 folks either (no offense intended with the E8 term; I am using that because each branch has a different name for that pay grade).

cisTits says

Hell, just quoting them are.

Can you indicate where in the UCMJ this is stated or the manual for Courts Marital ?

WookieMan says

Fact is most soldiers are just brain washed because they were uneducated morons.

This is also true in my circles.

DD214 says

WookieMan says

Then they're lauded with praise and fly overs at stupid sporting events for getting through basic training and sitting at bases

And who keep pushing these dog and pony shows and why ? Try to stop them and you will be deemed a traitor, treasonous, commie, anarchist, Antifa, etc.

It's up to parents to dissuade their children from enlisting.

GNL says

WookieMan says

Fact is most soldiers are just brain washed because they were uneducated morons.

This is also true in my circles.

And like I said, it's not ALL enlisted soldiers. The grunts which make up most of military are there because they had no future. Maybe it turns around. Generally it doesn't from my experience with peers in the military. It's usually shit parents or military parents that the kids get into the services. Parents got brainwashed or the kid was just too stupid and enlisted. 99% of them won't lose their life either. Lodging, food, money, etc is covered, what's not to like when you have no skill. Some do have skills, so not making a blanket statement.

It's not a bad thing, it's just always seemed like a fall back to me. And no disrespect intended towards users here that served. I'm just being blunt how most civilians really think of military. Fact is there hasn't been one conflict since I've been alive that was remotely worth anything. 40 years. There's simply no point in war. Witnessing it now in Russia/Ukraine. What is the actual outcome at the end? Massive destruction and generational animosity towards people you'd probably have a beer with for something that could be decided/negotiated in 20 minutes? For real?

This is the reason we need to get uninvolved. I get NATO. But Europe picked their pony with Russia as an energy supplier. They put themselves in a shit situation like they always do. Geography and resources screw them. Always will. Which in the end leads to conflict. European nations colonized because Europe had nothing. So then went and got it elsewhere.

WookieMan says

This is the reason we need to get uninvolved. I get NATO. But Europe picked their pony with Russia as an energy supplier. They put themselves in a shit situation like they always do. Geography and resources screw them

I disagree. It's their leaders that screw them.

Europe, if they didn't have traitors running their various nations, would simply become allies with Russia.

It makes no sense for them to ally themselves with the United States and become enemies with Russia. Russia would benefit from the technology and education of Europe, and Europe would benefit from the raw resources of Russia. It's a completely logical match.

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