patrick.net

Late 2023 at the earliest.

I checked out a 2004 Lexus LS 430 with 99k miles from a private party for $8500 based on a couple of YouTube videos. I passed on it because Lexus parts are expensive. Will keep looking. Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

gabbar says

Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

Perfect car...except for gas mileage.

gabbar says

Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

Years ago, at different times, I owned both a Grand Marquis and a Crown Vic. Some of my friends used to make fun of me, one referring to my Ford as an 'Uncle Buck" car.

Both were extremely reliable cars, and driving them on the freeway was a dream ... they both just seemed to float along.

My father used to share his words of wisdom with me (but not so much to my brothers). For some reason, I always hung on every word spoken. He would almost never repeat
himself, so I would pay close attention. When I was young, he told me this and I applied it my entire life; "Owning a car in this world is a necessity, but, it's the worst
investment if you buy for the wrong reasons. Buy and keep a car not for status, but for reliability. You'll save a fortune in the long run."

My two older brothers and I inherited a small amount of money from our uncle when we turned 21. My two brothers both went out and bought new cars. I used my money to buy my first, fixer-upper rental property. Long after those cars my brothers bought were wasting away in the junk yard, my property was still paying me dividends.

RayAmerica says

gabbar says

Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

Years ago, at different times, I owned both a Grand Marquis and a Crown Vic. Some of my friends used to make fun of me, one referring to my Ford as an 'Uncle Buck" car.

Both were extremely reliable cars, and driving them on the freeway was a dream ... they both just seemed to float along.

My father used to share his words of wisdom with me (but not so much to my brothers). For some reason, I always hung on every word spoken. He would almost never repeat
himself, so I would pay close attention. When I was young, he told me this and I applied it my entire life; "Owning a car in this world is a necessity, but, it's the worst
investment if you buy for the wrong reasons. Buy and keep a car not for status, but for reliability. You'll save a fortune in the long run." <...

Great advice. We talk about freedom of speech and I feel it. But more important than this, in a capitalistic society, is economic freedom (also known as fuck you money).

Car repossessions are on the rise in warning sign for the economy
After auto repossessions tumbled during the pandemic, they are now approaching their pre-pandemic levels with industry analysts worried the trend will continue.

"For those in the repossession business, it’s been difficult to keep up. Jeremy Cross, the president of International Recovery Systems in Pennsylvania, said he can’t find enough repo men to meet the demand or space to hold all the cars his company has been tasked with repossessing. With the holidays approaching, he’s been particularly busy as people prioritize spending elsewhere, and he’s expecting business to keep up throughout next year and 2024."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/economics/car-repossessions-are-rise-warning-sign-economy-rcna61916

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

For those in the repossession business, it’s been difficult to keep up. Jeremy Cross, the president of International Recovery Systems in Pennsylvania, said he can’t find enough repo men to meet the demand

Our unemployment problem is now solved!

BayArea says

I bought and sold a car in the past month as we upgraded our 5 seater SUV to a 7 seater to accommodate our family.

What did you get? I can't do minivans and it sounds like you didn't. Any time I see a man driving one I imagine his dick sucking into his body.

Having my wife and kids almost killed I don't think we'll go much smaller than a V8 SUV in the future. Gas can get fucked, but I'll pay it. I don't think most people understand how vulnerable they are in a sedan or minivan. You're exponentially more likely to die in a Toyota Corolla versus a Sequoia.

Tesla is the safest car on the road if that is your primary concern.

rocketjoe79 says

Tesla is the safest car on the road if that is your primary concern.

Except for the fires, the self-driving crashes, and THE SPYING. The fact that it's a giant computer begging to be hacked, can be turned off remotely, takes way longer to charge than putting gas, and destroys tons of earth for the battery construction.

When electricity goes out in my neighborhood, I'm not also stuck at home, no Tesla!

NuttBoxer says

rocketjoe79 says

Tesla is the safest car on the road if that is your primary concern.

Except for the fires, the self-driving crashes, and THE SPYING. The fact that it's a giant computer begging to be hacked, can be turned off remotely, takes way longer to charge than putting gas, and destroys tons of earth for the battery construction.

When electricity goes out in my neighborhood, I'm not also stuck at home, no Tesla!

Nutt is right on this. Unless you drive under 20 miles a day, they're useless and have plenty of issues. And no, it's not the safest car. Let me hit one with my Armada and trailer in tow with a 2k load and see how that ends... Size does matter in this conversation.

I don't care if we have kids or not, we'll always have Sequoia, Armada, Suburban, Tahoe, etc. sized cars. 100%. My current car would destroy any current production Tesla. Are they bad cars, maybe. I wouldn't trust my life with one for fake global warming bull shit.

My wife got rear ended by a fully loaded 20' box truck going probably 40mph in her Sequoia. Sadly it was totaled. Not a single injury to anyone, sore back, nothing in the Sequoia. 3 kids in the back seat of a Tesla and they're dead in the same scenario. Gotta understand physics I guess? Not you Nutt, others.

Banks (Capital One, Ally for now) are pulling inventory lines of credit from franchise automobile dealers.

gabbar says

I checked out a 2004 Lexus LS 430 with 99k miles from a private party for $8500 based on a couple of YouTube videos. I passed on it because Lexus parts are expensive. Will keep looking. Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

For the past 12yrs, I’ve been driving the same vintage Lexus. Two things:

a.) it’s been phenomenally reliable. Lexus GS/LS of that era are considered to be some of the most reliable cars ever built.

b.) parts are a fraction of the cost compared to same-class BMW/Benz. eBay and Amazon have every OEM part you would ever want and significantly cheaper than Dealer. RockAuto has everything else.

Buy the car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zNLHXWvoV8
Would any other car have saved the family in this event? I think not.
Tesla Model 3 and Y are IIHS Top Safety Picks since they started production.
I leave the house with a "full tank" ready to go 300+ miles every day.

I can't answer the tinfoil hat, prepper, paranoid people. I don't have the means to go full 30-year independent survival mode. If the human fungus arrives, I'm doomed.

I'm in love with the Toyota Hilux trucks they sell in Mexico; I want one soo bad.
For some reason they're significantly less expensive than Tacoma trucks; it's probably because some of them are actually work trucks without all the fancy shit on them.

rocketjoe79 says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zNLHXWvoV8
Would any other car have saved the family in this event? I think not.
Tesla Model 3 and Y are IIHS Top Safety Picks since they started production.
I leave the house with a "full tank" ready to go 300+ miles every day.

I can't answer the tinfoil hat, prepper, paranoid people. I don't have the means to go full 30-year independent survival mode. If the human fungus arrives, I'm doomed.

To put things in perspective, the firefighter chief said in his 50 years experience, this was the only case where people survived when a car went off the cliff. Quite amazing and free advertisement for Tesla.

BayArea says

gabbar says

I checked out a 2004 Lexus LS 430 with 99k miles from a private party for $8500 based on a couple of YouTube videos. I passed on it because Lexus parts are expensive. Will keep looking. Thinking about a used low mileage Mercury Grand Marquis or Ford Crown Victoria.

For the past 12yrs, I’ve been driving the same vintage Lexus. Two things:

a.) it’s been phenomenally reliable. Lexus GS/LS of that era are considered to be some of the most reliable cars ever built.

b.) parts are a fraction of the cost compared to same-class BMW/Benz. eBay and Amazon have every OEM part you would ever want and significantly cheaper than Dealer. RockAuto has everything else.

Buy the car.

A family member, who owned a 2006 GS300, didn’t have much luck with it. However, it’s still better than BMW and MBZ in my opinion. He loves his Model 3. 5 years of ownership with no maintenance except changing the cabin filters once.

I don’t have the same experience owning the S for 5.5 years. I had to replace the 12V battery once. Paid $232. Replaced the front headlight due to the eyebrow LED got burned out. It’s just cosmetic, but I love the look of it so I decided to replace it. Paid $540. While I was getting a free charge, a Tesla technician approached to replace new windshield wipers. Free of charge. Courtesy of Tesla. I tipped him $40.

When I bought the car new, I paid for a 4-year maintenance package at $2.4K or $600/year. I took the car in every 12.5k miles for the maintenance and got a loaner every time. 3 new sets of tires in 5.5 years at $3.3k total cost. All in all, about $6k worth of maintenance or $1k/every 12k miles.

I used to pay $300/mo for gas for my V8 E500. Now, it’s less than $300/year to charge at home plus I get free supercharging for life. The ownership and driving experience have been amazing. Best car I’ve ever owned. If the Cybertruck doesn’t workout, my next car will likely be another S, or maybe a Model Y performance.

Eman says

A family member, who owned a 2006 GS300, didn’t have much luck with it. However, it’s still better than BMW and MBZ in my opinion. He loves his Model 3. 5 years of ownership with no maintenance except changing the cabin filters once.

I don’t have the same experience owning the S for 5.5 years. I had to replace the 12V battery once. Paid $232. Replaced the front headlight due to the eyebrow LED got burned out. It’s just cosmetic, but I love the look of it so I decided to replace it. Paid $540. While I was getting a free charge, a Tesla technician approached to replace new windshield wipers. Free of charge. Courtesy of Tesla. I tipped him $40.

When I bought the car new, I paid for a 4-year maintenance package at $2.4K or $600/year. I took the car in every 12.5k miles for the maintenance and got a loaner every time. 3 new sets of tires in 5.5 years at $3.3k total cost. All in all, about $6k worth of maintenance or $1k/every 12k miles.

I used to pay $300/mo for gas for my V8 E500. Now, ...

How much did you pay for the S?

gabbar says

Eman says

A family member, who owned a 2006 GS300, didn’t have much luck with it. However, it’s still better than BMW and MBZ in my opinion. He loves his Model 3. 5 years of ownership with no maintenance except changing the cabin filters once.

I don’t have the same experience owning the S for 5.5 years. I had to replace the 12V battery once. Paid $232. Replaced the front headlight due to the eyebrow LED got burned out. It’s just cosmetic, but I love the look of it so I decided to replace it. Paid $540. While I was getting a free charge, a Tesla technician approached to replace new windshield wipers. Free of charge. Courtesy of Tesla. I tipped him $40.

When I bought the car new, I paid for a 4-year maintenance package at $2.4K or $600/year. I took the car in every 12.5k miles for the maintenance and got a loaner every time. 3 new sets of tires in 5.5 years at $3.3k total cost. All in a...

This was when dual motor was an upgrade, and pearl white was an upgrade. Black was standard then.

I got $11.5k “off” the purchase price. $1k referral discount, $500 PG&E rebate, $2.5k state rebate and $7.5k Federal tax credit.

Tesla offered a trade-in value of $30k recently, and said they “might be” able to do better. They’ve been following up regularly regarding an upgrade/trade-in. I guess they’re trying to retire all Teslas with free supercharging.

Eman says

This was when dual motor was an upgrade, and pearl white was an upgrade. Black was standard then.

I got $11.5k “off” the purchase price. $1k referral discount, $500 PG&E rebate, $2.5k state rebate and $7.5k Federal tax credit.

Tesla offered a trade-in value of $30k recently, and said they “might be” able to do better. They’ve been following up regularly regarding an upgrade/trade-in. I guess they’re trying to retire all Teslas with free supercharging.

Good for you. If you are happy with this, that is all it matters.

I drive a 2009 Mercury Grand Marquis. I purchased it as a used vehicle with 32k miles on it for about $7k including all taxes and fees. Paid cash for it. It had air suspension that broke after a year, replaced it with standard suspension. I am in the market for a new car. I won't pay this much money for S (70k MSRP), no matter how good it is though Elon is doing somewhat good work with Twitter (I know Elon's Twitter is banning some accounts critical of Islam, so is Google). Thinking about a Toyota Prius or a 4 cylinder Toyota Tacoma, preferably made in Japan.

gabbar says

Eman says

This was when dual motor was an upgrade, and pearl white was an upgrade. Black was standard then.

I got $11.5k “off” the purchase price. $1k referral discount, $500 PG&E rebate, $2.5k state rebate and $7.5k Federal tax credit.

Tesla offered a trade-in value of $30k recently, and said they “might be” able to do better. They’ve been following up regularly regarding an upgrade/trade-in. I guess they’re trying to retire all Teslas with free supercharging.

Good for you. If you are happy with this, that is all it matters.

I drive a 2009 Mercury Grand Marquis. I purchased it as a used vehicle with 32k miles on it for about $7k including all taxes and fees. Paid cash for it. It had air suspension that broke after a year, replaced it with standard suspension. I am in the market for a new car. I won't pay this much money for S (70k MSRP), no matter how g...

It really depends on your need. If I’m in the market for a car now with a $70k budget, my first choice is a Model Y performance. In fact, I have a test drive today at 3pm.

I maybe able to qualify for $15k tax rebate and credit based on our 2022 tax returns. ($7.5k from the state and $7.5k from the Federal). This is the main reason I would consider it, but I still have time to decide, and our CPA will likely have our taxes next sometime next week.

If I’m in the market for an ICE sedan, my first choice would be a Lexus LS, or GS or Acura TL. If I’m in the market for an SUV, it would be an Acura MDX or a Lexus RX.

We used to own MBZ E430, E500, E500 and BMW 525, 528, 540 and 545. They’re expensive to maintain AFTER the warranty is over. Also, a lot of issues after 100k miles so consider sell it before the 100k miles mark. We’ll never buy another German car ever again.

How was the test drive of Model Y? I will keep your comments about Lexus and Acura in mind.

gabbar says

How was the test drive of Model Y? I will keep your comments about Lexus and Acura in mind.

My buddy used to drive Audi, but he got tired of the maintenance costs. He made the switch and bought a 2015 Model S. In 2021, he bought a Model 3 performance and kept his S. He also sold his wife’s GX470 and bought her a Model Y LR. They loved their Lexus, but it was time to let it go. They don’t miss it. That was interesting for me.

The MYP is a nimble car for its size. Too much road feel for my liking….likely due to the low profile performance tires. I like the air suspension on the S and X. Maybe swap out the 21” performance wheels for 19-inch wheels would help some?

I’d never drive a Corolla, Prius or Civic, Camry or Accord. No amount of money savings is worth my life. Need something with a little more cushion to absorb the impact in an accident. My wife’s E430 got sandwiched and she walked away from it. German cars are like a tank. The frame is so freaking hard while Teslas built to absorb the impacts. Two different build and design thesis.

I used to drive a F-150, then Yukon XL before I switched to the E500 and now the S…mainly for safety reason. Something to consider.

NuttBoxer says

When electricity goes out in my neighborhood, I'm not also stuck at home, no Tesla!

No bicycle?

BayArea says

2023 will be a great time to buy a used car.

IMO, 2024 will be better.

Eman says

I’d never drive a Corolla, Prius or Civic, Camry or Accord. No amount of money savings is worth my life.

This is a good point. I will keep this mind. Thank you.

gabbar says

Eman says

I’d never drive a Corolla, Prius or Civic, Camry or Accord. No amount of money savings is worth my life.

This is a good point. I will keep this mind. Thank you.

Tesla just happens to provide 1) safety, 2) performance, and 3) savings in comparable vehicle prices we used to own….an apple to apple comparison IMO.

I didn’t buy Teslas to “save the planet” while I get to give my friends, who are into globull warming, a hard time while still drive ICE vehicles. Some outright hate Elon with a vengeance. 😂

Booger says

BayArea says

2023 will be a great time to buy a used car.

IMO, 2024 will be better.

Seems like Booger has a 🔮! Interestingly, 2024 may never come for some with the “died suddenly” fiasco that we have witnessed in the last year or two.

If one could afford something without putting financial distress/burden on the family, I’d say go for it. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. In fact, it may never come.

Eman says

gabbar says

How was the test drive of Model Y? I will keep your comments about Lexus and Acura in mind.

He also sold his wife’s GX470 and bought her a Model Y LR. They loved their Lexus, but it was time to let it go. They don’t miss it. That was interesting for me.

GX is a very capable off-roader. The fact that they happily replaced it with an electric minivan means that they never needed or used what that GX had to offer.

RWSGFY says

GX is a very capable off-roader. The fact that they happily replaced it with an electric minivan means that they never needed or used what that GX had to offer.

It was a beautiful car, but they didn’t buy it for the purpose you described. We, real estate investors, buy things for different reason. He had a great year and needed a tax write-off so he bought the GX470 for his wife. He was driving BMW and Audi because they were all tax deductible. He did well in the 2010’s when real estate was booming.

We do stuff that the average Joe/Jane would consider “stupid” looking from afar without fully understanding the implications. Let’s say we did well and needed some big deductions to minimize our tax liability. What would we do? Either buy toys and write them off, or we buy an underperforming asset, throw money at it, defer the gains, make it perform and get the equity back out tax-free.

Example: Buy a $2M underperforming building at 3.5 cap rate. 30% in land value and 70% in structure. This is a $50k phantom loss deduction based on 27.5 years depreciation. Then throw $200k in improvements to help improve the value of the asset in addition to making it performing better. That’s $250k in deductions in addition to closing costs, interest payments, etc….. A couple years later when it’s performing at 6-7 cap, do a cash out refinance, pull out the equity tax-free. This is how we convert taxable income to non-taxable income. All legal under the IRS codes.

I Eman says

We do stuff that the average Joe/Jane would consider “stupid” looking from afar without fully understanding the implications. Let’s say we did well and needed some big deductions to minimize our tax liability. What would we do? Either buy toys and write them off, or we buy an underperforming asset, throw money at it, defer the gains, make it perform and get the equity back out tax-free.
Example: Buy a $2M underperforming building at 3.5 cap rate. 30% in land value and 70% in structure. This is a $50k phantom loss deduction based on 27.5 years depreciation. Then throw $200k in improvements to help improve the value of the asset in addition to making it performing better. That’s $250k in deductions in addition to closing costs, interest payments, etc….. A couple years later when it’s performing at 6-7 cap, do a cash out refinance, pull out the equity tax-free. This is how we convert taxable income to non-taxable income. All legal under the IRS codes.

Very interesting.
I live in an apartment now. Don't own a home/never did. I am in the market to purchase a small single family home or a small business (probably not the best time). What would be your recommendation to me? I have some cash sitting in a checking account and a secure job.

When my Mazda lease expires in March of next year. I'm done leasing from Mazda.
No in fact I'm done with the new car market period. They have become well over 50% over inflated.

The sales man who I have leased over 10 Mazda's from over the last 15 years or so, called me last week, and was feeling the waters.
He told me he got the brand new Mazda CX9 in. I asked him, how much are they going for. He told me $70K, the MSRP is $40K though Edmunds suggest you pay $36K. The dealers are overly greedy, and are asking almost double for cars and trucks. Especially the pick up truck market.

I think it's time the Auto industry undergoes a fundamental change. Everyone quit buying new cars, will do wonders for the business.
They'll learn the importance of the value shopper.

I probably posted this elsewhere; oh well.
I have the funnest car I have ever driven; Volvo S60 T5 2013.
This was made in Belgium and has the 5 cylinder 2.5 liter 250 HP turbo engine.
It's a rocket ship in sport mode but using cruise control I got 30mph on the Florida Turnpike.
It feels like it's on rails on the highway.
A used one is not expensive, I think about $9,000 today.
The paint and the steel are thick not like my Toyota pickup.
It's also a cool looking car.
My friend's Audi is not as nice, my other friend's BMW is pretty solid but not as nice looking nor aerodynamic so he gets lower highway mileage.
Edit: I would avoid the newer Volvos with the 4 cylinder engine.

Tenpoundbass says

He told me $70K, the MSRP is $40K

Did you tell the salesperson off at that point? Seriously, anyone who overpays by 30K on a Mazda is a freaking moron.

BayArea says

I bought and sold a car in the past month as we upgraded our 5 seater SUV to a 7 seater to accommodate our family.

What did you sell (5 seater SUV) ? A Subaru Forester ?

What did you buy (7 seater) ? A cargo van or Subaru Ascent ?

Wolfman at WolfStreet website has been showing used car prices have steadily been decreasing over last 12 to 18 months.

.

I sold a 5 seater 4Runner
I bought a 7 seater LR4

zzyzzx says

Did you tell the salesperson off at that point?

I told him I'm out of the new car market, for the foreseeable future.

Tenpoundbass says

zzyzzx says

Did you tell the salesperson off at that point?

I told him I'm out of the new car market, for the foreseeable future.

I would not have been nearly as polite.