patrick.net

Here's 3 questions NOBODY has asked, and nobody is answering:

1) Who produced the vinyl chloride?
2) Who was buying the vinyl chloride?
3) What was the vinyl chloride going to be used for?

I bring this up, because there's been some suspicion this was being shipped to make chemical weapons, and if you think the US doesn't make chemical weapons, you're incorrect in that. Everybody still does. As a weapon it can be covertly delivered and deployed, and it's difficult to determine when it was brought to the target area, and who brought it there.

The hypothesis is that it was being used to make phosgene gas.

Ok glowie. Now just making stuff up to cause anti government sentiment,

The most important question is why are toxic chemicals transported in containers that leak if derailed. Toxic chemicals need to be transported in derailment proof containers (containers that are crashproof).

There also needs to be Special hazmat trained Teams upon the train and/route to contain any risk, not burning it but containing it.

This isn’t that hard, this massive spill was preventable and containable if we don’t live in clown world.

NuttBoxer says

Watched Ryan Cristian the other day. That guy goes deep on stuff, if you wanted to know anything about spike protein shots, he's your guy. Now he's getting into Ohio...

Apparently EPA is finally going to test for Dioxin, a month AFTER creating the largest amount in world history. People in East Palestine are being diagnosed as having been poisoned when they come into the doctor for breathing problems, rashes, etc.

Where are the I Stand with Ohio signs and slogans? Where is the mountain of cash for these people who can't afford to relocate? Where are the environmental protestors? The always-maskers? All those who invoked their right over our health decisions?

If you are, or were a part of any of these groups, this-is-you-wake-up-call. They don't care about Ukraine, they only care about money laundering.

They don't have to care about Ukraine - all they need to do is to stick to the obligations the US took upon itself in 1994 in exchange for the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world. Suggesting that a country like the USA should suddenly renege on its international obligations because of some derailment in some hamlet is frankly idiotic. These things are not connected in any way, shape or form. And no, you can't "launder" surplus humvees and 80s-era rockets - their accounting cost is not real money and you can't convert 1994 M1123 into it's supposed replacement cost of $264,000. Nor can old military toys help the folks near derailment site in Ohio (unless the proposal is to deploy M1113s as "tiny houses").

The histeria around the Ohio derailment is getting old. Yes, it's a disaster, but it's a small, local disaster and even if you believe "they are trying to kill us all", doing it with train derailments one village at a time will take them literally thousands of years.

And it's nowhere near Chernobyl by the territory and number of people affected. Here, I said it.

cute rainbow water, inclusive so nice. love is love bigots!

RWSGFY says

The histeria around the Ohio derailment is getting old. Yes, it's a disaster, but it's a small, local disaster and even if you believe "they are trying to kill us all", doing it with train derailments one village at a time will take them literally thousands of years.

And it's nowhere near Chernobyl by the territory and number of people affected. Here, I said it.

Sounds like you haven't looked into this at all. And that you aren't getting the point of why they claim environment matters, but not in this case.

RWSGFY says

all they need to do is to stick to the obligations the US took upon itself in 1994 in exchange for the 3rd largest nuclear arsenal in the world.

How is backing out of that going to impact Americans more than the people getting poisoned in Ohio right now?

RWSGFY says

Suggesting that a country like the USA should suddenly renege on its international obligations

HAHA, as if the US doesn't REGULARLY renege on its international obligations all the time!!!

That's standard operating procedure. It violates treaties all the time, it attacks sovereign nations all the time, it overthrows nations all the time.


original link

Listen closely at 0:29 "Iraq too". The US can't complain about other nations doing what the US is doing. We can't change Russia easily, but we have SOME CHANCE of changing the United States, but the first step is recognizing the problem. Tried of the hypocrisy.

If the United States wants to appeal to "rules", the first thing it needs to do is follow them. If they won't follow the "rules", there are no rules, and right now, there are no rules.

The US just blew up the Nordstream pipelines. That's an act of war not just against Russia, but against Germany and Europe as well - and this was done without congressional approval, a complete violation of our Constitution. Russia, Germany, and Europe should send in assassins to kill the people responsible, they are ENTIRELY justified in doing this.

SVB goes under. And just like that everyone forgot about the biggest environmental disaster in American history.

NuttBoxer says

SVB goes under. And just like that everyone forgot about the biggest environmental disaster in American history.

Hey, remember the collapse of FTX and Sam Bankman Fried?

richwicks says

NuttBoxer says

SVB goes under. And just like that everyone forgot about the biggest environmental disaster in American history.

Hey, remember the collapse of FTX and Sam Bankman Fried?

Now Russia is going after US drones.... Though I wouldn't doubt that one in all honesty. The 500ml of vodka before takeoff probably doesn't help Russian pilots.

WookieMan says

richwicks says

NuttBoxer says

SVB goes under. And just like that everyone forgot about the biggest environmental disaster in American history.

Hey, remember the collapse of FTX and Sam Bankman Fried?

Now Russia is going after US drones.... Though I wouldn't doubt that one in all honesty. The 500ml of vodka before takeoff probably doesn't help Russian pilots.

What do you have against Russia?

More specifically Russian vodka...

NuttBoxer says

More specifically Russian vodka...

I don't drink hard sprits of any kind, I just know Russians and Ukrainians and they're drunks. Not really a debate or conversation. No different than smelling copious amounts of marijuana in the Caribbean.

Russia is fucking up massive amounts of resources that could make life better for everyone on the planet. They're not intelligent enough. Being a KGB thug isn't all that hard. Extracting resources and getting the best ROI on them is absolutely not a thing Russia excels at. Smarter people could do much more with what they have.

Is the average Russian a bad person, probably not. Are they idiots, yes. I really have nothing against Russia besides them being idiots and wasting natural resources that could help people. There's zero reason if Russia is a super power that they couldn't be controlling the vast majority of Ukraine. They're idiots. And yes, the US has its fair share of dumb ass moments.

GNL says

WookieMan says

richwicks says

NuttBoxer says

SVB goes under. And just like that everyone forgot about the biggest environmental disaster in American history.

Hey, remember the collapse of FTX and Sam Bankman Fried?

Now Russia is going after US drones.... Though I wouldn't doubt that one in all honesty. The 500ml of vodka before takeoff probably doesn't help Russian pilots.

What do you have against Russia?

TV told him to hate it, and he obeys. He believes he comes to a conclusion and doesn't realize he's just an NPC doing what he's programmed to do. If you just accept that people can be controlled, you'll see who is controlled. This is why people get angry when you question "their" thinking, they don't have thinking, they have programming. If you push them on how they came up with "their" viewpoints, it short circuits their programming, and they become emotional and volatile.

WookieMan says

Russia is fucking up massive amounts of resources that could make life better for everyone on the planet.

Why do you think Russia has any obligation to "everyone on the planet"?

richwicks says

Why do you think Russia has any obligation to "everyone on the planet"?

They don't even have an obligation to their own people. They should be a high level first world country. They're not. That's clearly visible currently. We bought half the US for pennies. Russia could have negotiated with Ukraine. Both sides are too retarded, so they keep going with a war that's been ongoing, but just not a prominent one until the last year.

They could have simply annexed the land via a cash deal and agreement. Ukrainians love their money as we know. Now both countries are destroying demographics for a generation. They'll be in a hell hole state for the foreseeable future. They can barely run their own oil and gas rigs without foreign assistance. If they can't do that, then yes, that effects the rest of the planet with completely viable resources sitting in the ground. Not every country has that. I didn't know this was difficult to understand. Most/many counties have to import energy. Russia has a lot and doesn't know what it's doing.

WookieMan says

They don't even have an obligation to their own people.

Right, just like our government. How's Palestine Ohio doing? Our government bailed out criminals on Wall Street in 2007, they're about to do it again. We've been locked down for 2 years over BS. Russia's government might be shit, but I don't live under it.

WookieMan says

They should be a high level first world country. They're not.

The US is not at this point, and it's being driven lower. That's what you should be worried about unless you're in Russia, then you should worry about Russia. Russia is Russian's problem.

WookieMan says

Russia could have negotiated with Ukraine. Both sides are too retarded, so they keep going with a war that's been ongoing, but just not a prominent one until the last year.

This is a war between Russia and the USA. It is not pleasant to think about, but it's to Russia's advantage (at this point) to drag this out as long as possible. Russia attempted to negotiate with Ukraine for years, that's the Minsk agreement. They weren't going to lose their base in Crimea, regardless of the referendum vote there. Donbass wanted to join Russia (it is reported, so who knows) for years - they have tried to declare independence. Who knows if the vote was for real or fair? Who cares?

The US doesn't care about sovereignty.

Russia probably will never trade with Europe again. I know it does SOME export of energy still to Europe, but that will dry up in time. It doesn't help Russia to export to Europe.

WookieMan says

They could have simply annexed the land via a cash deal and agreement. Ukrainians love their money as we know. Now both countries are destroying demographics for a generation. They'll be in a hell hole state for the foreseeable future.

Well, that's a good point, they should have at least OFFERED it. I think it would have been rejected, but yeah, this would have been good propaganda points for them.

I agree, Ukraine is destroyed for at least 2 generations.

WookieMan says

They can barely run their own oil and gas rigs without foreign assistance. If they can't do that, then yes, that effects the rest of the planet with completely viable resources sitting in the ground. Not every country has that.

It appears the US does as well. The only question for Russia is can Russia keep its citizens happy enough not to revolt? They seem to be doing fine in that regard.

WookieMan says

I didn't know this was difficult to understand. Most/many counties have to import energy. Russia has a lot and doesn't know what it's doing.

Russia doesn't need "money". Money is just fiat paper now. What do they need from other countries?

I think what Russia would be smart to do, but probably won't do, is internal development. They have plenty of energy, and energy == money, they are equivalent. All our modern wealth and ease of life is directly related to energy availability. Our EASY LIFE is a direct result of how abundant energy resources are. I think Russia exports energy not for trade, but for strategic alliances. China and India are supporting them, that's like 1/2 the world.

WookieMan says

Russia has a lot and doesn't know what it's doing.

How do you know what their plan is? Why has the US closed ANWR? Is there a strategy? Maybe the last nation to hold oil wins?

GNL says

WookieMan says

Russia has a lot and doesn't know what it's doing.

How do you know what their plan is? Why has the US closed ANWR? Is there a strategy? Maybe the last nation to hold oil wins?

Wow, after a year of watching all that Soviet stupidity on display there are still people believing in CCCP having some kind of clever plan?

LOL

Their one and only clever plan died along with bunch of VDV troops in Hostomel. It, of course, was a reused '79 Afghanistan plan, which, in turn was reused '68 Czechoslovakia plan.

CCCP is like a circus horse: capable only of going in circles.

RWSGFY says

CCCP is like a circus horse: capable only of going in circles.

The CCCP stopped existing on December 26, 1991.

If you can't get this right, after being corrected multiple times, why should anybody take you seriously? You don't even know the USSR doesn't exist anymore.

When I see stories such as this, I'm so glad that there are government officials there to protect us.

Months after the 'incident' ...

Minnesota Nuke Plant Admits To 400,000 Gallon Leak Of Radioactive Water

Local officials said the leak "poses no health and safety risk to the local community or environment" and has not reached the Mississippi River or surrounding aquifers.

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/minnesota-nuke-plant-admits-400000-gallon-leak-radioactive-water

PS: Maybe wearing masks while drinking the radiated water would help? Is there a 'vaccine' for radiation?

RayAmerica says

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/minnesota-nuke-plant-admits-400000-gallon-leak-radioactive-water

Not downplaying incompetence of gubbermint officials, but the article was written by a fucking idiot as well. How much tritium was in water? How does the amount of tritium in this water compares with natural concentration of tritium? How does this potential radiation exposure compare with flying in airplane to another continent?

Journalists are just as stupid as gubbermint officials, and most articles on ZH are scare porn/clickbait.

Journalists just compile and partially re-write Press Releases and PR Statements these days.

Bd6r says

RayAmerica says

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/minnesota-nuke-plant-admits-400000-gallon-leak-radioactive-water

Not downplaying incompetence of gubbermint officials, but the article was written by a fucking idiot as well. How much tritium was in water? How does the amount of tritium in this water compares with natural concentration of tritium? How does this potential radiation exposure compare with flying in airplane to another continent?

Journalists are just as stupid as gubbermint officials, and most articles on ZH are scare porn.

Up until the 1990's, high end watches had tritium paint for luminescence (Rolex, etc.). Tritium has 2 extra neutrons, which makes it unstable. The extra neutron escapes the nucleus, but, as a relatively massive particle, is slowed by hydrocarbon or carbon. Also, the momentum or energy of the ejected neutron is relatively low, since the hydrogen atom is so small, so tritium is relatively safe in low dosages. We get more radiation from eating a bananna (Potassium 40 - look it up).

stereotomy says

We get more radiation from eating a bananna (Potassium 40 - look it up).

or granite countertops, or basements in Rockies (radon)

Bd6r says

Journalists are just as stupid as gubbermint officials, and most articles on ZH are scare porn/clickbait.

It's better than drudgereport, completely co-opted several years ago. And it's not propaganda like all the mainstream outlets. But for you to call this an article is a bit exaggerated. It's not more than a few sentences, and what you call fear-mongering, is just them saying, why wasn't it reported sooner. Seems like you have some vendetta against the site that mainly reports on financial news, and over the last few weeks, have gotten it right more consistently than any other outlet I know.

NuttBoxer says

Bd6r says

Journalists are just as stupid as gubbermint officials, and most articles on ZH are scare porn/clickbait.

It's better than drudgereport, completely co-opted several years ago. And it's not propaganda like all the mainstream outlets. But for you to call this an article is a bit exaggerated. It's not more than a few sentences, and what you call fear-mongering, is just them saying, why wasn't it reported sooner. Seems like you have some vendetta against the site that mainly reports on financial news, and over the last few weeks, have gotten it right more consistently than any other outlet I know.

I'm in agreement with Bd6r that most of what Zerohedge posts, is nonsense.

I used to read it but they kicked me off when they kept posting shit like "this chart needs no explanation" - and I'd ask for an explanation and nobody could give me one, and I pointed that out.

It's a clickbait site mostly, and it's LAZY. It's like reading 4chan, 99% of it is nonsense, and I don't want to rummage around the sewer looking for the penny that is somewhere in there. I'll let other people do it, and repost it here. This site, is essentially a filter. Plenty of nonsense gets on here as well, but the signal to noise ratio is far lower.

richwicks says

It's a clickbait site mostly

Everything is. A headline with nothing behind it. I don't think there are any good news sites out there today or ever for that matter. The point has always been to sell ads to make money. It's never been about the content. Media is not the 4th arm of government or whatever BS statement they've created out of thin air.

As someone that marketed real estate it was never about being truthful. In the description I'd never say "this home has worn hardwood floors, old appliances and needs a new furnace." Instead it's "this beautiful home built with 1950's craftsmanship that you'll love is ready for you to move in." Any digital media is all a lie. Any category be it news, media, hell everything on YouTube. It's all a lie. Some of it kind of lands and is truthful, but the headline is 100% BS every time to get you to click. From there maybe 10% is worth even reading.

Watched part of Erin Brockovich on a flight the other day. This shit has been going on for a long time.

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/something-is-very-wrong-with-the

Something Is VERY Wrong With The East Palestine Narrative ...

The question I am seeking to answer is, re dump and burn, why was this decision made? Here are my story notes-in-progress, which I would summarize as, “Good morning, it's Opposite Day."

— There has never been a dump and burn in railroad history, even in the decade prior to its being banned by 1980 regulations. There is always dump and remove, or decant (into tankers) and remove. Spills happen every two weeks — the burn part is unprecedented and there is rarely a need to dump. The typical approach is to take the contaminated dirt to a hazardous waste landfill.

— A 2022 EPA guidance, which says how to interpret laws and regs, repeats the ban on dump and burn except only after careful consideration when there is absolutely no other alternative (which has never happened in civilian society; it happens in the military).

— Fully enclosed hazmat tanker truck driver recovery operation (entirely routine procedure when there are damaged tanker cars) was initiated the night of Friday Feb. 3 — and then called off within 24 hours (on Friday night or Saturday). Who called it off and why?

— Fire lines pulled from keeping tankers cool.

— No samples of soot or wipe samples from inside the tanker cars — missing crucial data that would reveal the true nature of the incident.

— Point source soot samples are also missing. These would also be tell-all.

— Decision to breach, dump and burn was totally irrational and nobody understands it. The more experience people have, the less they understand it. EPA was involved; it cannot merely be a bystander.

— No state or federal emergencies were declared, depriving governments of emergency powers and agencies of certain kinds of authority (we now from “covid” how much power a state of emergency grants; in this case, that was never done).

— Analysis of samples from PTRMS lab (a high-end mobile chemistry analysis lab) are bogged at Carnegie Mellon, in custody of Albert Presto, who is not releasing them.

— Pressure release valves (PRVs) were working fine, per NTSB report; the tanker cars were not in jeopardy. Other reports say the VCM was not in jeopardy of exploding and besides, they can easily decanter it into tanker trucks as is done regularly.

— Five dead CTEH guys in airplane crash (eyewitnesses to point source sampling), who were at the East Palestine scene taking samples on behalf of the railroad and took samples…they died en route to the next mission.

— People are still sick in Palestine a way they should not be based on every other incident my source has worked on for 30 years. The other explanations are not very plausible, such as offgassing from stream aeration.

— Chemicals that are currently banned from production by federal law are DDT, PCBs, PBDEs, some CFCs, all chemical warfare agents and chemicals banned from production by voluntary agreement with chemical industry are PFOS and PFOA.

OK, what really happened?

With all the screaming and crying and gnashing of the teeth and calls for government to redirect HIMARS launchers to East Palestine ... err... relocate everybody living in the 100-mile radius of the acciden to some clean area, I haven't heard about single strong independent "half-a-cow in the freezer" consevative family offer a stay on their SHTF farm to an affected family at least until the level of pollution becomes more clear and/or cleanup is complete. Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering" and do fucking nothing to really help people they pretend to be so concerned about. Weird, huh?

WookieMan says

Any digital media is all a lie. Any category be it news, media, hell everything on YouTube.

See:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1336939/2020-12-03-what-do-you-listen-to-in-order-to

This was my contribution - at the time:

https://patrick.net/post/1336939/2020-12-03-what-do-you-listen-to-in-order-to?start=30#comment-1850855

There is good information out there, but you have to search for it, hell 1/2 of those I got through word of mouth. There are decent sources of information. My routine is find OLD reports from anybody that I'm told is "good", and see what they said 2 or 3 years ago. Nobody is perfect, however, see what the "mainstream media" was saying 2 or 3 years ago. Here's Rachael Maddow:


original link


Even if these people aren't actively lying, if they have a poor track record, ignore them. I don't try to hold on to people excusing them for making "honest mistakes" when they keep doing it over and over again, even if they are honest mistakes. Takes real work to know what is going on and being accurate I realize, but there's people who do it.

This is a very valid point, governments don't solve problems they create them. But a simple internet search seems to yield a number of results that are doing exactly what you claim isn't happening:

https://presearch.com/search?q=help+east+palestine

And this is the problem with people stuck in false paradigms. You're so busy blaming the other side, you're almost always wrong in your outlook.

BTW, the conservatives I know are just as war-hawky as the libs. It's called brainwashing...

Patrick says

Something Is VERY Wrong With The East Palestine Narrative ...

Pointed out very early on that the explosion they were supposedly preventing would have done nothing near the damage or radius of the burn.

RWSGFY says

Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering"

As an American citizen, why do you think it's ok to send resources to a foreign country over sending resources to an American disaster?

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering"

As an American citizen, why do you think it's ok to send resources to a foreign country over sending resources to an American disaster?

False dychotomy: there is no "over" in this particular case.

Now I'll ask a question:

As an independently-minded conservative with a STHF farm and half a cow in the freezer, why do you prefer sitting on your hands and screaming for government to do something instead of extending a helping hand to fellow Americans suffering from the situation arising from alleged mismanagement by that same government? Isn't it a bit shyzophrenic?

PS. And since it's fashionable now to bring Ukraine into everything let's look at their refugee situation. Out of 8+ millions of people displaced by war only about 2 mil have fled abroad. The rest were accomodated inside the country and mostly by non-government volunteer effort. If a relatively poor country could accomodate millions of internal refugees by citizen effort in the middle of existential struggle with a fucking superpower what does it say about inability of our government-sceptical "conservative" types to accomodate several thousands of East Palestine refugees if the situation there is as dare as it's being alleged?

RWSGFY says

With all the screaming and crying and gnashing of the teeth and calls for government to redirect HIMARS launchers to East Palestine ... err... relocate everybody living in the 100-mile radius of the acciden to some clean area, I haven't heard about single strong independent "half-a-cow in the freezer" consevative family offer a stay on their SHTF farm to an affected family at least until the level of pollution becomes more clear and/or cleanup is complete. Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering" and do fucking nothing to really help people they pretend to be so concerned about. Weird, huh?

Why call out only conservatives?

ZH is what it claims to be. They look at the downside. Always. But I must say in times of crisis ('08, even recently with SVB) they are "ahead of the curve" relative to the MSM. I always look at the byline. Some writes have a better track record than others who are simply pushing an agenda ("buy more gold!")

As for East Palestine, I was just mentioning at lunch today that this story seems to have fallen out of the news cycle. Very little follow up reporting. The MSM is on to the next shiny object.

RWSGFY says

False dychotomy: there is no "over" in this particular case.

You're the one who brought that up, but when I turn it on you, now it's a false dichotomy? Is the government sending aid to Ohio, is it sending aid to Ukraine? Why are you ok with the answer to that question?

I linked to a search that turns of lots of people supporting East Palestine, so your assertion that they just complain is unfounded, yet you continue to repeat yourself.

Let's get even more specific though. I already agreed government doesn't solve problems, but they could allow solutions to happen faster by getting out of the way. How?

Abolish all federal taxes for Ohio. This includes social security and medicare, they're all taxes. Remove all FDA, EPA, and any other federal regulations for Ohio. Remove all federal employees from the state, and turn the locations over to Ohio state or Ohio citizenry. No federal lands, no federal anything. The de-regulation alone would save residents tens of thousands.

If there are any shortfalls, take that from the Ukraine budget.