patrick.net

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/are-we-as-a-culture-totally-unresponsive

Eric F. Coppolino Is At The Cutting Edge Of The Palestine, Ohio Story, And What He Reports Based On Deep Knowledge Of Dioxin, Is, I'm Sorry To Say: NOT GOOD. At all.

“Most coverage of the train wreck in Palestine, Ohio is missing one word: dioxin. There were reportedly 14 tanker cars full of vinyl chloride, a precursor to polyvinyl chloride — that is, vinyl. Burning vinyl is the most serious source of dioxin in the environment — whether from trash incinerators, house fires or chemical spills.

“While vinyl chloride is a precursor chemical to making PVC, any time chlorinated compounds burn there will be dioxins created. And dioxin is a manufacturing byproduct of any manufacturing process involving chlorine, from “disinfectants” to the bleaching of paper. There was plenty of dioxin in those tanker cars before they caught fire. ...

Patrick says

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/are-we-as-a-culture-totally-unresponsive

Eric F. Coppolino Is At The Cutting Edge Of The Palestine, Ohio Story, And What He Reports Based On Deep Knowledge Of Dioxin, Is, I'm Sorry To Say: NOT GOOD. At all.

“Most coverage of the train wreck in Palestine, Ohio is missing one word: dioxin. There were reportedly 14 tanker cars full of vinyl chloride, a precursor to polyvinyl chloride — that is, vinyl. Burning vinyl is the most serious source of dioxin in the environment — whether from trash incinerators, house fires or chemical spills.

“While vinyl chloride is a precursor chemical to making PVC, any time chlorinated compounds burn there will be dioxins created. And dioxin is a manufacturing byproduct of any manufacturing process involving chlorine, from “disinfectants” to the blea...

Celia garner appears to be an idiot since there can be no dioxins in these rail cars BEFORE they were SET ON FIRE by the idiots who wanted to mitigate spill

NuttBoxer says

Eric Holder says

And if your money are in some Vanguard funds you own that railroad too.

No. Vanguard ownership is completely private and undisclosed. My only surprise with that list is Blackrock got edged out for #2.

How so? All Vanguard does is managing mutual funds and ETFs. There is no way to legally do anything "private and undisclosed" in that area.

RWSGFY says

How so? All Vanguard does is managing mutual funds and ETFs. There is no way to legally do anything "private and undisclosed" in that area.

Ok, show me a list of their shareholders.

Patrick says

Smelling it is bad enough, but when you can literally smell it, you know you are really fucked.

What's the update on the fire? Funny how we haven't heard diddly squat about the wreck site since it was reported. We keep hearing about the plume aftermath, but no word on how long it burned for, how much spilled vs burned. Nothing! But we know Butplug Pete thinks there's too many White Guys in Construction. Funny I haven't seen a white guy on a construction site in South Florida in over 20 years. They are extinct!

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

How so? All Vanguard does is managing mutual funds and ETFs. There is no way to legally do anything "private and undisclosed" in that area.

Ok, show me a list of their shareholders.

What would that list prove or disprove? No matter who your shareholders are if you manage mutual funds this activity is highly regulated with pretty strict oversight. Besides, doesn't it have ownership model when the company is owned by the mutual funds it oversees, meaning that by homding a Vanguard mutual fund you are one of the shareholders?

I remember them calling it "mutual of mutuals" or some such.

Patrick says

I'm doubtful of this post.

If people in Canada could smell it, we'd be hearing about it from more than a single source.

RWSGFY says

What would that list prove or disprove? No matter who your shareholders are if you manage mutual funds this activity is highly regulated with pretty strict oversight. Besides, doesn't it have ownership model when the company is owned by the mutual funds it oversees, meaning that by homding a Vanguard mutual fund you are one of the shareholders?

Ownership is purposely structured so you cannot see who it is. The reason I ask for the list is because I've never been able to find it, and neither has anyone else. If you can provide this list, that would confirm a TON of active conspiracies.

I've covered Vanguard before in a number of threads, you may want to look back on those.

Another train carrying hazardous materials just derailed in Michigan. What is going on?

A train containing one car of hazardous materials has derailed Thursday in Van Buren Township outside Detroit, Michigan, reports say.

The cause of the derailment was not immediately clear.
https://notthebee.com/article/another-train-carrying-hazardous-materials-just-derailed-in-the-midwest-what-is-going-on

East Palestine "Residents May Already Be Undergoing DNA Mutations," Class Action Lawsuit Alleges

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/east-palestine-residents-may-already-be-undergoing-dna-mutations-class-action-lawsuit

RayAmerica says

Another train carrying hazardous materials just derailed in Michigan. What is going on?

A train containing one car of hazardous materials has derailed Thursday in Van Buren Township outside Detroit, Michigan, reports say.

The cause of the derailment was not immediately clear.
https://notthebee.com/article/another-train-carrying-hazardous-materials-just-derailed-in-the-midwest-what-is-going-on

I bet it's media bullshit. Clickbait.

What are the "hazardous materials"? Ever seen a Material Data Safety Sheet? It will make you afraid of air, and no shit, it will. Everything can kill you.

Will someone from the government encourage the people in Eastern Ohio need to be vaccinated and boosted ?

richwicks says

I'm doubtful of this post.

If people in Canada could smell it, we'd be hearing about it from more than a single source.

There was no chlorine in train, and burning vinyl chloride releases HCl which does not smell anything like chlorine. So yes, the post is not correct.

Along with the xiden administration the entire upper management of Northern Suffolk who like buttplug and xiden failed to show up at the townhall and could not tell all the substances on their train, should be thrown into prison

Ohio U. S. Senator J. D. Vance Exposes 'Chemical Rainbow' in Water Supply in East Palestine

Watch this short video:

https://rumble.com/v29tofs-senator-jd-vance-pokes-stick-in-ohio-creek-instant-chemical-rainbow-appears.html

https://slaynews.com/news/erin-brockovich-breaks-silence-on-train-disaster-this-is-why-people-dont-trust-government-theyre-talking-out-of-2-sides-of-their-mouth/

Erin Brockovich Breaks Silence on Ohio Train Disaster: ‘This Is Why People Don’t Trust Government’

Erin Brockovich has broken her silence on the Ohio train distance to blast Democrat President Joe Biden and the federal government.

Brockovich, the famous whistleblower, environmental activist, consumer advocate, and the subject of an Oscar-winning film, warned that the Biden admin’s handling of the train derailment in eastern Ohio is the reason “people don’t trust the government.”

She said: “I don’t trust the EPA testing; they’re talking out of 2 sides of their mouth-they say they didn’t find any air contaminants within the limits they’re looking for, that says to me that doesn’t mean you didn’t find it.

“Do you really have enough information to call ‘all clear’?

“There just seems to be a big gap, a lack of transparency, smells like a coverup—what the hell is going on?

“If you don’t know what the hell is going on you need to tell the community I’m not sure what the hell is going on.”

“It’s just a kick in the gut when a community finds out once again, yeah, our local, state, and community leaders don’t have our back.”

Well, the 'Green Policies' are all designed to fail, after all. Can you really criticize them for what they were designed to do?

Hazmat Crews Deploy After Massive Fire Rips Through Florida Plastic Planter Warehouse

The fire started around 2 a.m. Thursday morning. The cause of the fire is still under investigation.0

A massive fire at a Kissimmee, Florida, warehouse storing plastic planters has caused Florida officials to start monitoring the air quality in Kissimmee, Florida, which is only 13 miles from Walt Disney World.
https://nationalfile.com/hazmat-crews-deploy-after-massive-fire-rips-through-florida-plastic-planter-warehouse/

NuttBoxer says

IF it's true.

LINK? No pictures, CDC website and someway to verify it's been updated either through the wayback machine, or something similar.

As a chemical / environmental engineer who specializes in process equipment and pollution control, many of my friends and associates have asked my take on this.

In crisis you need to make hard decisions quickly. Attempting a "controlled" depresurization of the tank contents was preferable to an uncontrolled explosion. Plus there were several cars on fire and we don't know for sure what was in each. A chain reaction of tankers exploding... who knows what would have gone where.

As for Vinyl Chloride (VC) specifically it's permissible exposure limit is only 1 ppmv. By burning it you end up with hydrochloric acid... sounds scarry but it's less dangerous. It's a strong acid but NOT a carcinogen.

Basically
C2H3Cl + O2 --> HCl + H2O + CO2
[I didn't bother balancing the equation]

In fact incineration (followed by scrubbing) is how one would treat laege scale VC emissions at a chemical plant.

Adsorption also works, but is impractical for the quantity of material in this case; for every 1b of VC You need 70 to 100 lbs of absorbent. I doubt they'd be able to mobilize that much material that quickly.

Plus, dilution is the solution to pollution. As much as it sucks getting HCL in the air (I have not heard about them scrubbing at all... probably to problematic to deploy a scrubber to the site and set it up) it will dissipate.

Now the water and the soil are another matter... but here two there are ways to get it clean, even under the tracks, via in Situ Thermal Remediation.

That can come later. Right now they need to mitigate as best the can and clear out the wreckage.

I'm not saying the EPA or the feds are infallible on this.. from what I've read the entire crisis could have been managed better... but Incannrespect that I the moment they are choosing the "least bad" option based on limited information.

As an aside, yes VC is a known carcinogen and yes it has been outlawed or replaced in many industrial processes... (TCE used to be used as a degreaer / solvent... over time it decomposes to VC... thus TCE usage has been regulated pretty much out of existance. Dry cleaners used to use it by the drum full.)

However VC is the main feedstock used to make PVC and CPVC... the sort of stuff you have at your local hardware store for plumbing projects.

And the majority of bulk chemical is shipped by rail, rather than road because it is "safer". Most major chemical plants have a rail spur that goes right to the plants point of loading and unloading.

A massive derailment introduces a host of complicating factors.

FWIW, I am noodling on a mitigation method that could be field deployed quickly should something like this happen in the future.

That's all fine, but what about the dead animals? The dead fish? The sick people? The statements by those agencies you are kind of supporting that everyone can live in the contaminated area? The Netflix movie about the same thing a year ago? The update to Vinyl Chloride by CDC before the train derails?

Also, the railway employees being put on shit schedules for years now? Someone who works in the railway industry stating that the wheel's sparking is related to maintenance that's never done on time?

NuttBoxer says

That's all fine, but what about the dead animals? The dead fish? The sick people? The statements by those agencies you are kind of supporting that everyone can live in the contaminated area? The Netflix movie about the same thing a year ago? The update to Vinyl Chloride by CDC before the train derails?

NuttBoxer says

Also, the railway employees being put on shit schedules for years now? Someone who works in the railway industry stating that the wheel's sparking is related to maintenance that's never done on time?

Agreed. This warrants prison time for those involved, or, if you want to leave govt out, a people uprising with similar consequences. There is no excuse for this.