patrick.net

Watched part of Erin Brockovich on a flight the other day. This shit has been going on for a long time.

https://celiafarber.substack.com/p/something-is-very-wrong-with-the

Something Is VERY Wrong With The East Palestine Narrative ...

The question I am seeking to answer is, re dump and burn, why was this decision made? Here are my story notes-in-progress, which I would summarize as, “Good morning, it's Opposite Day."

— There has never been a dump and burn in railroad history, even in the decade prior to its being banned by 1980 regulations. There is always dump and remove, or decant (into tankers) and remove. Spills happen every two weeks — the burn part is unprecedented and there is rarely a need to dump. The typical approach is to take the contaminated dirt to a hazardous waste landfill.

— A 2022 EPA guidance, which says how to interpret laws and regs, repeats the ban on dump and burn except only after careful consideration when there is absolutely no other alternative (which has never happened in civilian society; it happens in the military).

— Fully enclosed hazmat tanker truck driver recovery operation (entirely routine procedure when there are damaged tanker cars) was initiated the night of Friday Feb. 3 — and then called off within 24 hours (on Friday night or Saturday). Who called it off and why?

— Fire lines pulled from keeping tankers cool.

— No samples of soot or wipe samples from inside the tanker cars — missing crucial data that would reveal the true nature of the incident.

— Point source soot samples are also missing. These would also be tell-all.

— Decision to breach, dump and burn was totally irrational and nobody understands it. The more experience people have, the less they understand it. EPA was involved; it cannot merely be a bystander.

— No state or federal emergencies were declared, depriving governments of emergency powers and agencies of certain kinds of authority (we now from “covid” how much power a state of emergency grants; in this case, that was never done).

— Analysis of samples from PTRMS lab (a high-end mobile chemistry analysis lab) are bogged at Carnegie Mellon, in custody of Albert Presto, who is not releasing them.

— Pressure release valves (PRVs) were working fine, per NTSB report; the tanker cars were not in jeopardy. Other reports say the VCM was not in jeopardy of exploding and besides, they can easily decanter it into tanker trucks as is done regularly.

— Five dead CTEH guys in airplane crash (eyewitnesses to point source sampling), who were at the East Palestine scene taking samples on behalf of the railroad and took samples…they died en route to the next mission.

— People are still sick in Palestine a way they should not be based on every other incident my source has worked on for 30 years. The other explanations are not very plausible, such as offgassing from stream aeration.

— Chemicals that are currently banned from production by federal law are DDT, PCBs, PBDEs, some CFCs, all chemical warfare agents and chemicals banned from production by voluntary agreement with chemical industry are PFOS and PFOA.

OK, what really happened?

With all the screaming and crying and gnashing of the teeth and calls for government to redirect HIMARS launchers to East Palestine ... err... relocate everybody living in the 100-mile radius of the acciden to some clean area, I haven't heard about single strong independent "half-a-cow in the freezer" consevative family offer a stay on their SHTF farm to an affected family at least until the level of pollution becomes more clear and/or cleanup is complete. Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering" and do fucking nothing to really help people they pretend to be so concerned about. Weird, huh?

WookieMan says

Any digital media is all a lie. Any category be it news, media, hell everything on YouTube.

See:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1336939/2020-12-03-what-do-you-listen-to-in-order-to

This was my contribution - at the time:

https://patrick.net/post/1336939/2020-12-03-what-do-you-listen-to-in-order-to?start=30#comment-1850855

There is good information out there, but you have to search for it, hell 1/2 of those I got through word of mouth. There are decent sources of information. My routine is find OLD reports from anybody that I'm told is "good", and see what they said 2 or 3 years ago. Nobody is perfect, however, see what the "mainstream media" was saying 2 or 3 years ago. Here's Rachael Maddow:


original link


Even if these people aren't actively lying, if they have a poor track record, ignore them. I don't try to hold on to people excusing them for making "honest mistakes" when they keep doing it over and over again, even if they are honest mistakes. Takes real work to know what is going on and being accurate I realize, but there's people who do it.

This is a very valid point, governments don't solve problems they create them. But a simple internet search seems to yield a number of results that are doing exactly what you claim isn't happening:

https://presearch.com/search?q=help+east+palestine

And this is the problem with people stuck in false paradigms. You're so busy blaming the other side, you're almost always wrong in your outlook.

BTW, the conservatives I know are just as war-hawky as the libs. It's called brainwashing...

Patrick says

Something Is VERY Wrong With The East Palestine Narrative ...

Pointed out very early on that the explosion they were supposedly preventing would have done nothing near the damage or radius of the burn.

RWSGFY says

Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering"

As an American citizen, why do you think it's ok to send resources to a foreign country over sending resources to an American disaster?

NuttBoxer says

RWSGFY says

Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering"

As an American citizen, why do you think it's ok to send resources to a foreign country over sending resources to an American disaster?

False dychotomy: there is no "over" in this particular case.

Now I'll ask a question:

As an independently-minded conservative with a STHF farm and half a cow in the freezer, why do you prefer sitting on your hands and screaming for government to do something instead of extending a helping hand to fellow Americans suffering from the situation arising from alleged mismanagement by that same government? Isn't it a bit shyzophrenic?

PS. And since it's fashionable now to bring Ukraine into everything let's look at their refugee situation. Out of 8+ millions of people displaced by war only about 2 mil have fled abroad. The rest were accomodated inside the country and mostly by non-government volunteer effort. If a relatively poor country could accomodate millions of internal refugees by citizen effort in the middle of existential struggle with a fucking superpower what does it say about inability of our government-sceptical "conservative" types to accomodate several thousands of East Palestine refugees if the situation there is as dare as it's being alleged?

RWSGFY says

With all the screaming and crying and gnashing of the teeth and calls for government to redirect HIMARS launchers to East Palestine ... err... relocate everybody living in the 100-mile radius of the acciden to some clean area, I haven't heard about single strong independent "half-a-cow in the freezer" consevative family offer a stay on their SHTF farm to an affected family at least until the level of pollution becomes more clear and/or cleanup is complete. Nope, they all scream "can't give away these M113s while East Palestine is suffering" and do fucking nothing to really help people they pretend to be so concerned about. Weird, huh?

Why call out only conservatives?

ZH is what it claims to be. They look at the downside. Always. But I must say in times of crisis ('08, even recently with SVB) they are "ahead of the curve" relative to the MSM. I always look at the byline. Some writes have a better track record than others who are simply pushing an agenda ("buy more gold!")

As for East Palestine, I was just mentioning at lunch today that this story seems to have fallen out of the news cycle. Very little follow up reporting. The MSM is on to the next shiny object.

RWSGFY says

False dychotomy: there is no "over" in this particular case.

You're the one who brought that up, but when I turn it on you, now it's a false dichotomy? Is the government sending aid to Ohio, is it sending aid to Ukraine? Why are you ok with the answer to that question?

I linked to a search that turns of lots of people supporting East Palestine, so your assertion that they just complain is unfounded, yet you continue to repeat yourself.

Let's get even more specific though. I already agreed government doesn't solve problems, but they could allow solutions to happen faster by getting out of the way. How?

Abolish all federal taxes for Ohio. This includes social security and medicare, they're all taxes. Remove all FDA, EPA, and any other federal regulations for Ohio. Remove all federal employees from the state, and turn the locations over to Ohio state or Ohio citizenry. No federal lands, no federal anything. The de-regulation alone would save residents tens of thousands.

If there are any shortfalls, take that from the Ukraine budget.

NuttBoxer says

This is a very valid point, governments don't solve problems they create them. But a simple internet search seems to yield a number of results that are doing exactly what you claim isn't happening:

https://presearch.com/search?q=help+east+palestine

If the GOVERNMENT isn't helping East Palestine Ohio, and if you think that's "not their job", fucking get rid of it.

If the government doesn't serve the public, it has no purpose and that's precisely where we are at. It's a criminal syndicate. We went through 2 years of bullshit about masking up, social distancing, and getting vaccinations - supposedly to protect the public.

Does our government give a fuck about the public? What does their complete disregard of Palestine Ohio tell you?

What did they just do to us for 2 years?

NuttBoxer says

And this is the problem with people stuck in false paradigms. You're so busy blaming the other side, you're almost always wrong in your outlook.

What are the sides?

There's the public, and the criminal syndicate that most of the public thinks is a "government". Is that two sides you're talking about?

NuttBoxer says

BTW, the conservatives I know are just as war-hawky as the libs. It's called brainwashing...

Yeah, brainwashing is hard to avoid but it's possible. You have to work at it, everybody is subject to it, but the most brainwashed people are always the people that think "propaganda doesn't effect me".

The left and right paradigm was CREATED, and recently. Create two false sides and put them at each other's necks, and meanwhile, the mafia won't be observed as they murder, poison, steal... That's our real situation. The problem in my opinion is people don't know what the actual situation is.

NuttBoxer says

Patrick says

Something Is VERY Wrong With The East Palestine Narrative ...

Pointed out very early on that the explosion they were supposedly preventing would have done nothing near the damage or radius of the burn.

One hypothesis I've heard, is by burning it, they spread out the damage. They diluted it, making it far more difficult to ascertain precisely what the damage was. If they didn't, everybody in East Palestine would be dead in a few years, if not months, weeks, or days.

Another hypothesis I've heard, is that it wasn't just vinyl chloride - and it wasn't.. There were many chemicals on that train, but unless you've been following the story closely you wouldn't know that. It's also been pointed out we don't know who produced these chemicals, and who purchased them, or where they were going. This has led to suspicion that these were being transported for the military, and the chemicals were chemical weapons precursors to be used in Ukraine. That's VERY CONSPIRATORIAL, but it's possible, and I'll keep it in the back of my mind for the next few years. Maybe it's true, but it's probably false.

https://slaynews.com/news/half-east-palestine-train-derailment-investigators-fallen-ill/

I heard they were trying to blame "fatigue" for it. Things are fucked in Ohio...

Patrick says

That doesn't even look like Biden.... I know the face can change quickly when old, but he looks like shit.

And Schumer, just wear you fucking glasses. Or don't. Or get contacts. I can never take that guy seriously. The New York accent. Trump grew up there and doesn't sound like some goomba with a slight gay tint like Schumer.

People in Ohio and Ontario are smelling chemicals past few days. They are on their own because the government hates us. Why would you participate in a system that hates you by voting, rather than taking action right now by living the change you want?

Sooo, they didn't actually need to burn anything:

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/06/27/ldqa-j27.html

Maybe they should try flying Israeli flags and killing Arabs...

Have all the chickens died yet? If yes, have mass starvation and death followed? Is it time to swoop in and pick up all that now free land for cheap? Asking for a Hungarian friend with last name starting with an S.

From what I hear everything is still super poisoned, no one should be living there, and that likely won't change for decades.

https://slaynews.com/news/state-emergency-declared-kentucky-train-derailment-spills-toxic-chemicals/

State of Emergency Declared in Kentucky as Train Derailment Spills Toxic Chemicals

Hundreds of people in rural Kentucky are being evacuated over Thanksgiving after a train derailed and burst into flames, causing a toxic chemical spill.

The incident has caused molten sulfur to catch fire and release dangerous fumes.

At least 16 of the 40 coaches on the train came off the rails near Livingston, 60 miles south of Lexington.

The small town is home to 200 people.

The train reportedly crashed around 2:30 pm on Wednesday, with the incident worsening through the night as chemicals leaked from the wreckage.

Some good updates on the intentional poisoning of American citizens in Ohio. The guy keeps saying he thinks the motivator was money + broken system. Still seems a bit naive to me. Still think this is deep state experimenting.

https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/scott-c-smith-interview-1-18-24/

NuttBoxer says

From what I hear everything is still super poisoned, no one should be living there, and that likely won't change for decades.

Is that JD Vance guy who pranced around for pictures immediately after the event doing anything about it?

No idea who that is. Interview is with Scott Smith, and dude has put himself in the cross-hairs by refusing to back down from the truth.

NuttBoxer says

No idea who that is.

A congresscreature who got his 15 minutes of fame by visiting the area, poked a stick into some oily water and then disappeared. I believe he was featured in this very thread.

NuttBoxer says

Interview is with Scott Smith, and dude has put himself in the cross-hairs by refusing to back down from the truth.

So just some talking head? Yawn. What did he DO?

Vance must be buried in a link, text search doesn't show anything.

If you want to know who Scott Smith is, watch the interview...

Eric Holder says

Have all the chickens died yet? If yes, have mass starvation and death followed? Is it time to swoop in and pick up all that now free land for cheap? Asking for a Hungarian friend with last name starting with an S.

Vinyl chloride is toxic but volatile. It is gone by now.
However, Einsteins there did set fire to stuff to burn it off. Burning it creates dioxins in amounts that are not immediately deadly but enough for slow chronic effect on health. They are also very persistent.

If you watch the video, they've actually done the "cleanup" ass backwards. The soil is super contaminated at this point, and they're stirring it up, into the air, for residents to breathe.

NuttBoxer says

If you watch the video, they've actually done the "cleanup" ass backwards. The soil is super contaminated at this point, and they're stirring it up, into the air, for residents to breathe.

Dioxins are not that volatile so it is fine assuming that contamination is from vinyl chloride and its combustion. However we do not know if it is only vinyl chloride and not something else

https://x.com/gc22gc/status/1753823095960600920?s=20

Heard the mayor, and a bunch of other local officials have all gotten their payoffs. Now they just need to do their job and shut up all the citizens whining about cancer and lung failure.

Aaaaaand itʼs settled. Eat shit, Oprah, you're not getting these chicken farms to build your pedo compaund on!

A federal judge on Wednesday approved a $600 million class-action settlement Wednesday that Norfolk Southern railroad offered to everyone who lived within 20 miles (32 kilometers) of last year's disastrous derailment in East Palestine, Ohio.

Judge Benita Pearson gave the deal final approval after a hearing where the lawyers who negotiated it with the railroad argued that residents overwhelmingly supported it, attorneys for the residents and railroad spokesperson Heather Garcia told The Associated Press. Roughly 55,000 claims were filed. Only 370 households and 47 businesses opted out.
...
The judge's approval clears the way for payments to start going out quickly. The lawyers had previously said they hoped to get the first checks in the mail before the end of the year.

As part of the settlement, any aid residents received from the railroad will be deducted from their final payments. Wallace and others who had to relocate for an extended period while the railroad paid for hotels or rental homes won't get anything.

Anyone who lived within 2 miles (3.2 kilometers) of the derailment can get up to $70,000 per household for property damage plus up to $25,000 per person for health problems. The payments drop off the farther people lived from the derailment down to as little as a few hundred dollars at the outer edges.
...

-AP