patrick.net

PeopleUnited says

But during the great tribulation everyone will be faced with a choice to accept the mark of the beast or be killed. That’s not fear mongering, it is a warning for those left behind.

Haha, I'd die first and I still wouldn't become a Christian.

This is a problem with the Christian mythology, it allows the "popular interpretations" of Revelations to implement control. Social Security was the mark of the beast, then credit cards were, then UPC symbol codes. I'm not going to have an RFID chip injected into me. Honestly, I'll probably never take a vaccine again, since they are pushing to move entirely to mRNA, and I know that doesn't work.

richwicks says

How do you know, for example, that Satan didn't compose the Bible, and THAT explains all the bloodshed and wars over religion?

When you are born again scripture takes on new meaning. The Holy Spirit both confirms and reveals the power and meaning of the words. Basically when the Spirit of God lives in you (as He indwells every born again Christian since Pentecost) and you are listening to the Spirit, it is the ultimate BS meter.richwicks says

You are convinced that ever other religion in the world is false, except for your religion, which you were luckily born into, and raised in.

Actually no, I grew up in a counterfeit Christianity just like you. I no longer have fellowship with the people of the church in which I was saved (they had cultish characteristics elevating the minister above the Holy Spirit and I left) and my family also disagrees with my theology which is quite different from their upbringing. But the word of God found its way into my heart anyway, and it has made all the difference. Every religion including “Christian” religion is wrong, if it puts salvation in doing works, keeping laws, being faithful or making sacrifices. Salvation comes from hearing the word of God. It’s that simple, you hear it, acknowledge your need and that God can provide it, and accept it (turning away from your previous path or whatever it was that you put between yourself and God and turn towards the Lord).

richwicks says

I'm in a tiny minority pointing out that Ukraine's conflict began basically with the US overthrow of Ukraine, not because

I also know that the west globalists started this war (not just the US).

I’m in a tiny minority who does not go to church, does not give donations, does not recite creeds but does know for certain that if I were to die today or in 20 years God has care of my soul and eternal destiny. That is true freedom. That’s why they call it Liberty in Christ.

richwicks says

What makes you certain the Bible is an exception?

When the Spirit of God lives in you counterfeits are obvious. It’s a Spiritual thing. When Adam sinned he immediately died spiritually, but when we accept the gift of God in Jesus we are born again immediately with the Spirit. If you have never experienced this, it is beyond your comprehension. Christianity is a spiritual thing, not just intellectual. And even a child can be born again, when they are mature enough to understand the gospel (good news). It seems irrational because you are missing the Spirit of God. There is a God shaped hole in your heart that the Spirit of God can fill. Really. He. Can.

Onvacation says

PeopleUnited says

if any of the Bible is untrue, then God is a liar

The Bible was written and rewritten by man.

It is what it is.

So when Jesus told parables then he was a liar? The story of the prodigal son doesn’t lose any meaning just because he never existed. The point is the lesson. Just because the people who handed down the most ancient stories of the Bible verbally for thousands of years didn’t include that Adam and Eve or Noah were parables in some bonus commentary doesn’t make them liars.

richwicks says

When I argue this about ANY religion, it comes down to how do you know your religion is correct, and the answers are "I have faith" or "It helps me" or "It makes me a better person" - any or all of those can be true but that doesn't mean the religion is.

I disagree. With Christianity you can actually read the New Testament which tells the story about the life and death of Jesus. His life is about the best documented historical event that has ever happened, so you should believe it if you believe anything historical. Then you can compare his life to what was predicted in the Old Testament and see that it was the fulfillment of 4000 years of prophecy.

All the other religions I’ve looked at are either made up stories about things that never existed (Rama, Zeus, etc). Or they are just spin-offs of Christianity (Islam, Mormans), which just go to show the strength of the foundation of the religion.

PeopleUnited says

When the Spirit of God lives in you counterfeits are obvious. It’s a Spiritual thing. When Adam sinned he immediately died spiritually, but when we accept the gift of God in Jesus we are born again immediately with the Spirit.

This is what I'd consider a simulacrum - it's when a simulation of something substitutes for the real thing. So you could say "I have a soul", but I would just counter, "that's your mind, it acts as a soul".

This just doesn't ring true to me, and I don't want to argue about it anymore. You can't "feel" your way to truth. It's a rigorous process of elimination and that's what it really is, you can't know anything "true" so much as you can know everything else is false, and what is left is PROBABLY true.

Something I resent is how much bullshit I was taught as a kid only to figure out it wasn't true. Wasted my time. I think I have unlearned just about everything that was untrue. At least I have that.

pudil says

I disagree. With Christianity you can actually read the New Testament which tells the story about the life and death of Jesus. His life is about the best documented historical event that has ever happened, so you should believe it if you believe anything historical.

Find a Roman document about his execution. They kept good records. I can believe it would have been falsified by now. Christianity didn't take off immediately, basically all the apostles were dead before it did, I think like 100 to 200 years after, it's been a while - I no longer know.

I believe some man like this existed, but I think what we know of him is more legend than fact. He has some traits with various roman gods, and even Hercules.

I really don't want to argue about this. I told you it was pointless many times.

richwicks says

Find a Roman document about his execution. They kept good records. I can believe it would have been falsified by now.

Why do I have to do this? All the best records of Jesus’s existence are included in the Bible. You have multiple narratives from different authors that were recorded within the lifetime of the people who knew Jesus. These writing weren’t corrupted, the original Greek is still available if you’d like to attempt your own translation. Finally, if this was a giant conspiracy to trick everyone, these guys were more dedicated then any cultists I’m aware of since all of them were martyrs except John.

You can’t go and say that there was a historical Jesus but then claim the writings about him were corrupted. Why don’t you show me the Roman records of Jesus’s non miraculous life since their records were so good?

Your position shows your fear. You can’t deny the historical reality of Jesus, yet you can’t handle if he actually said what he said and did what he did. So instead you claim the writings about him were corrupted, which is laughable.

pudil says

All the other religions I’ve looked at are either made up stories about things that never existed (Rama, Zeus, etc). Or they are just spin-offs of Christianity (Islam, Mormans), which just go to show the strength of the foundation of the religion.

Religion is a by product of the evolution. God is made by man. Religions are made on demand and supply. Look at Scientology, Woke for recent examples.
LOL! The best proof of god so far is, one has to die to see him! I really like this gas lighting technique! Every other "proof" is part of creating confusion for their victims!
In reality, religion is all about take advantage of unsuspected folks while socializing, commit heinous, violent crimes with no prison time, stealing money by making exceptions in tax code in developed countries at best and making lot of slaves all over.
But there is one advantage with religious people like @richwicks said, they act like a opposing force to the commie corrupt governments.

Nah, you atheist dimwits are trying to change the subject and I’m not falling for it :)

I’m 3 drinks in and trying to watch the acclaimed film fast and furious 7 so I’ll just save some time and give you something to chew on.

Did Jesus exist or not? If you say not then you are basically making the same argument as PeopleUnited that you can’t rely on human methods of reasoning unless you personally witness something happen. Again, his life is one of the best documented things ever historically recorded. Take it or leave it.

So if you are at the point of at least conceding he existed, then let’s ignore all the miracles he was reported to have done and just focus on what he said. He said he was God, he said no one could get to heaven except through him, he said he was dying as a sacrifice for our sins. Now we are in CS Lewis territory. Either he was a liar, lunatic, or Lord. He wasn’t crazy, he invented a new moral framework that lives on to this day. He wasn’t a liar, no one can preach such a message consistently and be full of shit. That just leaves lord.

pudil says

Why do I have to do this? All the best records of Jesus’s existence are included in the Bible. You have multiple narratives from different authors that were recorded within the lifetime of the people who knew Jesus.

Or it could have been a single author, where the tales were passed down orally for decades, and the authors ended up with different names which would explain the SIMILARITIES of the Gospels, but there are differences between them.

pudil says

These writing weren’t corrupted, the original Greek is still available if you’d like to attempt your own translation.

The originals would be in Aramaic, not Greek.pudil says

Finally, if this was a giant conspiracy to trick everyone, these guys were more dedicated then any cultists I’m aware of since all of them were martyrs except John.

Dude, I'm an expert on conspiracies.

pudil says

You can’t go and say that there was a historical Jesus but then claim the writings about him were corrupted.

Why not?

pudil says

Why don’t you show me the Roman records of Jesus’s non miraculous life since their records were so good?

Because he was nobody of note. Millions of people lived and died under Roman rule, who are not recorded.

pudil says

Your position shows your fear. You can’t deny the historical reality of Jesus, yet you can’t handle if he actually said what he said and did what he did. So instead you claim the writings about him were corrupted, which is laughable.

I just don't believe it. Grimm's Fairy tales have altered story elements and different endings at times.

I don't want to upset your faith. There's just no point. If this was me 15 years ago, I'd not be as nice at all. There's no point in making you question your faith and I don't want to do it.

I don't know what you're talking about with "my fear". My morality is almost, if not entirely, compatible with Christianity. What would I have to lose? I'll tell y you, my reason and I just can't just leave that. You simply don't understand how I came to this place.

Whatever created me, created my ability to reason. I have an obligation to use that.

pudil says

things that never existed (Rama, Zeus, etc)

I have not read it but there is a book Called Return of the gods, written by a Christian author who speculates the ancient gods are real beings, except that they are demons who will one day return to deceive people in the end times.

Jesus pudil says

Just because the people who handed down the most ancient stories of the Bible verbally for thousands of years didn’t include that Adam and Eve or Noah were parables

They weren’t parables. Try reading Luke 3:23-38.

richwicks says

Explain the Qu'ron then.

The Vatican invented Islam, and trained its founder, that is why it is so similar to Catholicism with the Mary stuff and other similarities. Heck, the pope is even good friends with and building interfaith coalition with Islam.

The other mythological gods may not be entirely myths, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and demons have dwelled on the earth since the fall of man. Those ancient mythology gods might be real demons who really did supernatural things and really did interbreed with women and interact with men. In the end times the whole world will be deceived by Satan’s lies which could likely include stories of aliens and/or demonically enhanced AI that is billed as a prophet, priest and king.

Rubicon says

But what made god and what was his origin?

The God of Moses said I Am sent him. God is. He created time so nothing predates Him, He just is.

Rubicon says

And he doesn’t (tell us untrue stories). Man does. Man has written and re-written the Bible.

Oh please, the God who spoke the universe into existence is perfectly capable of preserving the true Word of God for eternity, just as He promised. He is God y’know!

Rubicon says

If the world - according to the Bible - is only 6,000 years old how does that align with the ice age, with foot prints (carbon dates back to 20,000 years ago) or excavation of ancient sites that date back to 9500-8000 BC (like Göbekli Tepe)?

@Rubicon Just from statistics, given that human civilization has arisen independently many times, I have to assume that pre-human civilization also has.

I'm still waiting, but would not be surprised to find out that some dinosaurs had, for example, metalworking. Maybe the "London Hammer" is real.

https://www.historicmysteries.com/the-london-hammer/

The Antikythera Mechanism also proved that highly precise gears existed many centuries earlier than previously thought.

Rubicon says

Well said.
What I can’t wrap my head around is where Does anything come from. Why does anything exist? The only explanation is a god. But what made god and what was his origin?
What’s your thought on this?

As I have mentioned in message id 107, in this thread. Its an issue with the fundamental thinking process. Be happy and save time, as no answer will help you since you already have the conclusions. If you are really open and interested, you can find that stuff online that you can come out of that logic hole.

richwicks says

The Israeli / Palestinian conflict is NOT over religion. It's over land. Religion is the excuse we are given. It's basically two ethnic groups

Northern Ireland is the exact same situation.

It was never about Catholic vs Protestant. It is a fight over the land by two ethnic groups. Religion is just a marker for which side one is on.

Patrick says

Maybe the "London Hammer" is real.

https://www.historicmysteries.com/the-london-hammer/

Wood that got embedded into rock?

Noooo....

They won't allow the wood to be carbon dated. That's a hoax. Wood couldn't survive in the extremes where rock is formed.

Patrick says

The Antikythera Mechanism

Thanks for sharing, I had to show a picture of the recreation, it is classic thanks to the guy with the pipe.

Patrick says

human civilization has arisen independently many times

After the Tower of Babel incident different cultures arose independently due to language barriers and subsequent isolation. https://answersingenesis.org/human-evolution/cavemen/how-are-cavemen-different/

PeopleUnited says

After the Tower of Babel incident different cultures arose independently due to language barriers and subsequent isolation. https://answersingenesis.org/human-evolution/cavemen/how-are-cavemen-different/

Why don't other cultures contain this supposed history?

And consider Latin, everybody spoke Latin in the Roman empire yet that language developed into French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, and Romanian.

It's just a parable. Languages develop naturally especially when the population is largely illiterate.

Strangely this is reversing now. You can even hear it today. When I first heard British English it was barely comprehensible to me, but today not at all. If I listen to and old English broadcast the difficulty reappears somewhat. Global communication is making a single language appear slowly.

It might be English that becomes "the one" if we don't destroy civilization.

Patrick says

"The Antikythera Mechanism also proved that highly precise gears existed many centuries earlier than previously thought."

The Antikythera Mechanism is an analog computer from 2,000 years ago with a remarkable accuracy in predicting astronomical phenomena...

mummies escaped from the other once, duh!!!

PeopleUnited says

Sounds like you are afraid. Afraid of taking God at His word.

You are either mistaken or purposely straw-manning at this point.

What you call "the word of God" - the Bible - we don't believe for a moment is the word of God. You keep insisting this is "the word of God", well, no it isn't. If would be like I kept saying that Dianetics was the word of god, and if you didn't accept it, well, that's just your fear of accepting the truth, and insisting this over and over and over again.

richwicks says

Why don't other cultures contain this history?

Um, they do. Actually many diverse cultures have traditions that tell of the time when people all spoke one language but one day all of a sudden they were unable to understand one another. https://answersingenesis.org/tower-of-babel/tongue-twisting-tales/

God did this to cause them to migrate and fill the entire planet.

richwicks says

What you call "the word of God" - the Bible - we don't believe for a moment is the word of God. You keep insisting this is "the word of God", well, no it isn't.

Of course it is, it is the best selling book of all time for good reason. One day soon He will return just as He promised. That fact that you scoff at this is prophecy fulfilled and proof that many will be afraid at His reappearance.

PeopleUnited says

Um, they do. Actually many diverse cultures have traditions that tell of the time when people all spoke one language but one day all of a sudden they were unable to understand one another.

They are missing Hindu, Confucianism, and Shintoism. That's like 1/2 the world.PeopleUnited says

Of course it is, it is the best selling book of all time for good reason.

Yeah, the West invented the Gutenberg press, making book duplication inexpensive and easy. Of course, the RCC fought against that.

PeopleUnited says

That fact that you scoff at this is prophecy fulfilled and proof that many will be afraid at His reappearance.

I don't "scoff at it". I just don't believe it.

richwicks says

What you call "the word of God" - the Bible - we don't believe for a moment is the word of God. You keep insisting this is "the word of God", well, no it isn't. If would be like I kept saying that Dianetics was the word of god, and if you didn't accept it, well, that's just your fear of accepting the truth, and insisting this over and over and over again.

Well, I only said it once, but if you are not afraid as you claim, then you are by your own testimony, unbelieving. Both the fearful and unbelieving, well they have the same fate.

But if you are not afraid, like yoga said:

Rubicon says

“One day soon He will return”

Any day now! this has been taught for centuries.

“many will be afraid at His reappearance.”

Of course, can’t finish a sentence without cramping some more fear mongering in.

Scoffing will get you about as much enjoyment as skydiving without a parachute. Where is the promise of His coming? All things continue as they were from the beginning right?

I’m not fear mongering, I’m just giving you your daily affirmation, after all you have nothing to fear do you?

Rubicon says

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

What you call "the word of God" - the Bible - we don't believe for a moment is the word of God. You keep insisting this is "the word of God", well, no it isn't. If would be like I kept saying that Dianetics was the word of god, and if you didn't accept it, well, that's just your fear of accepting the truth, and insisting this over and over and over again.

Well, I only said it once, but if you are not afraid as you claim, then you are by your own testimony, unbelieving. Both the fearful and unbelieving, well they have the same fate.

But if you are not afraid, like yoga said:

YAAWN

So what do you believe padawan?

richwicks says

They are missing Hindu, Confucianism, and Shintoism.

So in order for an ancient story to be true every culture must pass it down? That is just plain BS and you know it. Try again. The flood tradition is found on every continent, and the best selling book of all time is not a fluke of timing, it is a divine appointment and reveals the importance of this Word to the foundation of human existence. People don’t buy, study or swear oaths on books they don’t believe in. It could be argued that the Jewish and Christian foundations of scripture are responsible for the dominance of the western culture, not a hindrance by any means but an advantage over all other traditions. The Apex civilization since the dawn of the New Testament is the one that was influenced most by the Bible. That is not mere coincidence.

One tiny example, Leviticus talks of cleaning the human body in running water, demonstrating how the Word of God directed the Israelites to practice modern hygiene long before the benefits of running water became understood and adopted world wide to reduce the risk of infectious disease. Gods “rules” give those who adhere to them a physical as well as spiritual freedom and advantage.

Rubicon says

I believe we can make the world a better place (instantly) by protecting our kids from religion and people that try to brainwash and manipulate them with fear tactics and fairytales.

I fully agree. Like wokism, sexual deviancy, CRT, climate alarmists and Covidians.

Here is what Jesus has to say about religious leaders. Mathew 23
1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

PeopleUnited says

Well, I only said it once, but if you are not afraid as you claim, then you are by your own testimony, unbelieving. Both the fearful and unbelieving, well they have the same fate.

You can't bully me into "believing" or threaten me.

I can no more believe in YOUR version of God, than I can believe in Zeus, or the Easter Bunny. This isn't a "choice" for me, either. YOU probably can't believe in Zeus or the Easter Bunny either, even if I threatened you with eternal damnation if you refused to believe. I could perhaps get you to claim you believed in them, if I applied force of some sort, like shunning, preventing you from being employable, even torturing you.

It's just such a primitive religion. All stick, no carrot. A real religion in my opinion will be all carrot, no stick and in this case the "carrot" would simply be internal self improvement, perhaps improvement in your interactions and relationships with others, not perks in society - that's called a bribe which I equate to corruption. The Muslims have historically engaged in that.

You really don't understand my thinking, and really, do you really want to?

Rubicon says

I tried to tell him as well that his fear mongering doesn’t work on me. It feels like talking to him is like talking to a robot. No matter what you say, it doesn’t matter and he uses every chance he gets to spread his fear tactics and to post Bible verses.

I have a question:

Him, or a bunch of bullshit like having a gay teacher talk to their 9th grade class about homosexual sex and transgendering to another sex, encouraging kids to use the "new" pronouns, allowing them (even encouraging them!) to believe they are the opposite sex, explaining what "genderqueer" is as well as having the gay flag hung up, as well as hosting drag queen story hour?

15 years ago, I would have gone for his throat. NOT today. Who do you ally with - a perhaps overly religious Christian person, or the freaks? Overly religious people I thought were the threat, "if they believe THIS nonsense, they can be made to believe ANYTHING..." Well I was wrong, entirely dead wrong.

I had NO PROBLEM with gays, or lesbians, or practically anybody, 20 years ago - but they are clearly the greater threat than the Christian right.

I'm one of the people 20 years ago that laughed in the face of a Bible beater warning that "if gay marriage is allowed they'll be teaching elementary school kids about gay sex in 10 years" - "Oh, silly nutcase Biblical literalist, your religion has drove you insane!"

But they were absolutely right. I apologize to all the "crazy Christians" I laughed at and derided. They were 100% right.

When the pendulum swings back, maybe I will ally myself again with "the other side" to prevent the pendulum from swinging too far, but for now, my far less dangerous enemy is my friend. I don't agree with them, but I agree with them WAY more than I do with the woke nutcases. The Christians are a bulwark against government, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, they can be propagandized just like anybody, but they can't be made to believe surgery will turn a man into a woman or a woman into a man, or that there's nothing wrong with a some dude in a fetish outfit reading to kids.

They are trying to normalize pedophilia. If they fucking do that, I'm going to work to shove them all back into the fucking closet. This can never, ever, be allowed. I have gay friends, and gay family members, but normalizing sex with children, any adult is expendable to prevent that, including me.

richwicks says

But they were absolutely right. I apologize to all the "crazy Christians" I laughed at and derided. They were 100% right.

Well, apology accepted.

And here is what is dangerous and will be a reality some day soon. The hatred of Christians (the ones who actually believe the Bible not the ones like you mention that just fake it out of fear) is real and growing. There is coming a day when your head will be severed from your body for teaching, quoting or believing the Bible. It’s probably not far off and the venom of people like some on this board is evidence that this antichrist spirit is growing. Be careful what you wish for, if I can be persecuted for my beliefs and lose my right to free speech and autonomy just because you disagree, then you deserve to lose your rights too, and you will, you will.

richwicks says

All stick, no carrot. A real religion in my opinion will be all carrot, no stick

Other than persecution from people like some on this board I have NEVER regretted or felt like I was missing out in ANY way for being a believer in Christ Jesus. So the ONLY drawback of being a Christian is how some human beings treat me. Let that sink in.

For me it is All Carrot baby!

I think you have missed the point of the gospel, it is good news. God wants to take the burden off you, that is why He sent His son, and His spirit to reach out to every man woman and child in love. I get it that Christians are humans And don’t always practice love (plus there is plenty of counterfeit Christianity which you and I have grown up in) but God Is Love. That means he wants to feed you “carrots” and every other good thing. And to address your point about in your opinion the carrot should be self improvement, well there is no better, more meaningful improvement than to commune, fellowship and spend time with your creator and others who know Him.

PeopleUnited says

And here is what is dangerous and will be a reality some day soon. The hatred of Christians (the ones who actually believe the Bible not the ones like you mention that just fake it out of fear) is real and growing. There is coming a day when your head will be severed from your body for teaching, quoting or believing the Bible. It’s probably not far off and the venom of people like some on this board is evidence

Ugh.

Look, I'm on your side in this battle. You have no idea about my fanaticism against what I regard as "evil", and I regard my government as evil at this point. You don't.

I understand evil is a real thing, it may just be a thing created in man's mind, IF they can be claimed to be men, but it unquestionably exists, and I oppose it.

But I cannot be a Christian ever again.

PeopleUnited says

There is coming a day when your head will be severed from your body for teaching, quoting or believing the Bible.

Haha. I may disagree with you, but I really will die to allow you to voice your opinion, even if I disagree with it and I seriously mean that.

I don't believe in your idea that the so-called rapture is near, every generation believed that.

Rubicon says

I just got triggered by him posting his religious stuff cuz it reminds of people from my past who do that and how they are.

That’s called projection I think. It is not my intention to offend anyone, including you. And it is not just/right to judge me based on the words, or deeds of anyone else. I’m also concerned that you can go so far as imply that Christians don’t have the right and privilege to share their beliefs and experiences. That is unAmerican and flies in the face of why so many came here to form a new nation to begin with.

richwicks says

I regard my government as evil at this point. You don't.

Actually there is no question that many people in government and the shadow government are acting under evil spirits. I agree with you on that unquestionably.

But America is a government of the people. The people have the right and responsibility to fix and root out the evil. If the government is evil it means the people are evil.

Every generation since Jesus ascended into heaven has had the blessed hope that they would be the one to see His return. That is true. What has changed in the past 70 years or so is that Israel reclaimed their homeland, and the technology is in place for the mark of the beast and new world order global financial religious and political system. AI might be the last piece they were needing to bring it all together.

There is no stopping them, but as you astutely recognize, Christians make it harder/frustrate the globalists plans because we know the truth about what they are doing.

PeopleUnited says

Rubicon says

I just got triggered by him posting his religious stuff cuz it reminds of people from my past who do that and how they are.

That’s called projection I think. It is not my intention to offend anyone, including you.

Oh come on, think about this. Saying "believe what I believe or you'll be tortured forever!" is a LITTLE offensive. I understand your point of view, since you believe this, but we can't. I literally can't believe that. It sounds extremely hateful

PeopleUnited says

I’m also concerned that you can go so far as imply that Christians don’t have the right and privilege to share their beliefs and experiences.

Most of us are free speech absolutists.

20 years ago, it was the Christian Right pushing for censorship. Do you remember that?

In the mid 1990's or so, Congress was trying to pass the first "Communications Decency Act" to "protect the children". They were pushing for censorship of the Internet, and what they did was have a bunch of assholes post pornography all over the fucking place on USENet, which was the FIRST social media. In alt.hobbies.knitting people would post obscene pictures although there was already alt.sex.whatever. Back then, the Internet was new, and we traced down the posters, and they were government and military IP addresses.

When the 1st CDA failed, it all disappeared. My first experience with false flags, and fucking agent provocateurs.

The truth is MOST PEOPLE are reasonable people, and the government doesn't want reasonable people communicating, but back then, "your side" was screaming "we have to protect kids" - well, that is true - we need to protect them from our FUCKING government. We need to exercise control over this fucking criminal government. They are totally immoral, entirely criminal, scum. We're not pushing to teach 9 years about gay sex in elementary school, or "gender fluidity". I'm an atheist, I still have morals. I have to admit, I'm a FAR weaker atheist than I used to be.. don't think that my default is going back to Christianity though - I'm open to the concept of a "god". I have said multiple times, I wonder at how a fucking atom exists, someTHING created it, you have no idea how confusing that is to me that anything exists at all. POSSIBLY intelligence exists beyond just arrangement of atoms - it's well beyond my capacity to understand, at least in this mortal coil.

The biggest fear of our government is if we're allowed to cooperate and communicate freely. I'm not your enemy even when I'm in conflict with you, I'm not your enemy. I'm the enemy of the government. They attack us constantly and unrelentingly. They attack you as well, all the time. I'll disagree with you, however you're not total scum, the government is. Bunch of pedophile fucking asshole scumbags that run drugs, do false flags, start wars. You don't do that, but if you did - then I am your enemy.

I think you're just incorrect - nothing shameful or morally wrong about that - doesn't make you stupid or evil, I just think you're brainwashed, and I live in a sea of people who are brainwashed. You think I'm incorrect - that doesn't make me evil. We can coexist, we have common ground.

Do you really want people explaining why they think your religion is incorrect? If you lose your faith will it benefit you? It was a painful time for me when I lost it. I judged it worthwhile in hindsight, but if you're over 40, I wouldn't recommend it. Too much of your thinking depends on your faith, when I was 20, I didn't have much thinking other than technical logic.

It took me a long time to see the world materialistically, and I'm still learning and I'm sort of coming out of it. I was 23 or so when I was a "true atheist", and it's taken me 30 years to come out of the idea that we're just meat robots. People think it's the fear of death that drives people back to religion when they get older, and I thought that too at 30 or so - it's not that. It's absolutely amazing anything exists at all and I have real wonder at that. It does seem like we're on a desktop snow globe at times. The existence of anything, such a mystery!

Here, I want to show you an OLD universal discovery:


original link

This is a spec of the sky that is imaging something like a grain of rice held out at arms length. This is what that grain of rice would cover up.

It took 10 days to collect enough photons to produce this image on the Hubble. The universe truly is incomprehensibly vast and now we have the James Webb, and that's creating serious problems - because it may be that the Big Bang never happened, it's showing evidence it didn't.

It's absolutely humbling.

This imaging was done in 1996 BTW. That's 25 years ago. We just don't know, and I accept that. It's so incredibly vast.

Rubicon says

bombard people with Bible verses. That’s the triggering part of it.

The Jewish religious leaders were triggered by Jesus’s words as well. So it is a pretty common reaction to the gospel. But if you find it so offensive you have to ask yourself why you can’t tolerate someone who nonviolently shares their faith. Insecure much?

Rubicon says

You are no different than other religious fanatics IMO

Painting with a broad brush padawan. Opinions are like assholes...

richwicks says

This imaging was done in 1996 BTW. That's 25 years ago. We just don't know, and I accept that. It's so incredibly vast.

It truly is amazing. And God made all in 24 hours! That is just incredible!! Day 4. Just think how long of a movie you’d have to make to show even half the universe. Obviously God is the ultimate multitasker.