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1
GreaterNYCDude
2023 Apr 6, 8:18am
To answer my own questions:
1) anything over six figure is certainly livable. With two people making six figure one should be solidly upper middle class... even on the coasts, but not wealthy.
2) As much as I'm a capitalist, the disparity between the Uber rich and the ever squeezed middle class is concerning.
You can't legislate prosperity, but clearly the system is out of balance.
3) I honestly don't know if or when wages will rise. I know personly, I earn less now than before COVID. As much as I live below my means but it's still grating that I get a 3% raise when inflation is 6%.
1) anything over six figure is certainly livable. With two people making six figure one should be solidly upper middle class... even on the coasts, but not wealthy.
2) As much as I'm a capitalist, the disparity between the Uber rich and the ever squeezed middle class is concerning.
You can't legislate prosperity, but clearly the system is out of balance.
3) I honestly don't know if or when wages will rise. I know personly, I earn less now than before COVID. As much as I live below my means but it's still grating that I get a 3% raise when inflation is 6%.
2
clambo
2023 Apr 6, 9:21am
Wages can't go up much because the slave masters import workers to keep them down.
One job which is secure from foreign labor seems to be lawyer; firemen, sheriffs, cops CHP also seem to be immune.
One job which is secure from foreign labor seems to be lawyer; firemen, sheriffs, cops CHP also seem to be immune.
3
komputodo
2023 Apr 6, 11:58am
komputodo
2023 Apr 6, 11:58am
And the other side of the coin:
You work 8 hours to live 4.
You work 6 days to enjoy 1.
You work 8 hours to eat in 15 minutes.
You work 8 hours to sleep 5.
You work all year just to take a week or two vacation.
You work all your life to retire in old age,
And contemplate only your last breaths.
Eventually you realize that life is nothing but a parody of yourself practicing for your own oblivion.
We have become so accustomed to material and social slavery that we no longer see the chains.
Life is a short journey, live it! Collect memories, not material things!
You work 8 hours to live 4.
You work 6 days to enjoy 1.
You work 8 hours to eat in 15 minutes.
You work 8 hours to sleep 5.
You work all year just to take a week or two vacation.
You work all your life to retire in old age,
And contemplate only your last breaths.
Eventually you realize that life is nothing but a parody of yourself practicing for your own oblivion.
We have become so accustomed to material and social slavery that we no longer see the chains.
Life is a short journey, live it! Collect memories, not material things!
4
mell
2023 Apr 6, 12:11pm
komputodo says
Agreed. Though being financially independent makes one happy, you just have to connect the two. I'll never fully retire cause I like what I do, but set a hard stop at early semi retirement. Leaving CA will likely be a part of it ;)
And the other side of the coin:
You work 8 hours to live 4.
You work 6 days to enjoy 1.
You work 8 hours to eat in 15 minutes.
You work 8 hours to sleep 5.
You work all year just to take a week or two vacation.
You work all your life to retire in old age,
And contemplate only your last breaths.
Eventually you realize that life is nothing but a parody of yourself practicing for your own oblivion.
We have become so accustomed to material and social slavery that we no longer see the chains.
Life is a short journey, live it! Collect memories, not material things!
Agreed. Though being financially independent makes one happy, you just have to connect the two. I'll never fully retire cause I like what I do, but set a hard stop at early semi retirement. Leaving CA will likely be a part of it ;)
6
GreaterNYCDude
2023 Apr 6, 12:38pm
I wish we as a country would take the long view. Bring production and factories back to the states so we can be self sufficient. Goods would cost more, so we'd have to take the "Henry Ford" approach and pay workers more, but it would be a long term win for America.
7
PeopleUnited
2023 Apr 6, 1:59pm
PeopleUnited
2023 Apr 6, 1:59pm
GreaterNYCDude says
Publicly traded companies are forced to increase profits. They are not loyal to America or Americans. Perhaps the only way to fix the problem is to make it unprofitable to hire foreigners, to have overseas factories etc... one possible way to achieve that would be to mandate that overseas workers be paid the same salaries and benefits as domestic employees. Mandate that environmental and labor standards inside the US apply to overseas jobsites. That would probably drive corporations to bring home their factories and other outsourced operations.
I wish we as a country would take the long view.
Publicly traded companies are forced to increase profits. They are not loyal to America or Americans. Perhaps the only way to fix the problem is to make it unprofitable to hire foreigners, to have overseas factories etc... one possible way to achieve that would be to mandate that overseas workers be paid the same salaries and benefits as domestic employees. Mandate that environmental and labor standards inside the US apply to overseas jobsites. That would probably drive corporations to bring home their factories and other outsourced operations.
8
GNL
2023 Apr 6, 2:34pm
GNL
2023 Apr 6, 2:34pm
GreaterNYCDude says
In the Northern Va. area, I'd say a family of 4 needs $200K/year to be middle class.
GreaterNYCDude says
To start, deport 30,000,000 illegals.
GreaterNYCDude says
I don't think so. I don't have any reasoning for this answer though.
1) What is a "good" salary these days?
In the Northern Va. area, I'd say a family of 4 needs $200K/year to be middle class.
GreaterNYCDude says
2) What, if anything, should be done about the increasing wealth gap?
To start, deport 30,000,000 illegals.
GreaterNYCDude says
3) Given the rising cost of living, do you expect wages to finally start rising for thoes who remained employed during this mast recent economic downturn?
I don't think so. I don't have any reasoning for this answer though.
9
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Apr 6, 7:15pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2023 Apr 6, 7:15pm
Six figures must have meant something at some point, and still does in lower cost-of-living areas, but yeah, in California, that doesn't get you too far. It was nice once I got there, but I'm more proud that my wife has never had to work, and we've managed to live in houses most of our life in San Diego. Now keeping that six figure salary, and relocating to the middle of nowhere, that's a winner.
10
komputodo
2023 Apr 7, 10:11am
komputodo
2023 Apr 7, 10:11am
mell says
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
Though being financially independent makes one happy,
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
11
Onvacation
2023 Apr 7, 10:39am
Onvacation
2023 Apr 7, 10:39am
GreaterNYCDude says
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six , result happiness.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery”
― Charles Dickens, David Copperfield
It matters more how you spend your money than how much you make. For the San Francisco Bay Area a good household income would be $150K. You probably wouldn't be buying a house at that salary but you could live a comfortable enjoyable life.
Our household makes around $180K and, in my opinion, we live very well.
What is a "good" salary these days?
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six , result happiness.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery”
― Charles Dickens, David Copperfield
It matters more how you spend your money than how much you make. For the San Francisco Bay Area a good household income would be $150K. You probably wouldn't be buying a house at that salary but you could live a comfortable enjoyable life.
Our household makes around $180K and, in my opinion, we live very well.
12
RWSGFY
2023 Apr 7, 10:54am
RWSGFY
2023 Apr 7, 10:54am
komputodo says
I think the definition of financial independence is universal: ability to maintain a desired lifestyle w/o need to work.
mell says
Though being financially independent makes one happy,
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
I think the definition of financial independence is universal: ability to maintain a desired lifestyle w/o need to work.
13
Patrick
2023 Apr 7, 11:04am
Patrick
2023 Apr 7, 11:04am
clambo says
Yes, but they also export work. So American workers are screwed two ways.
Wages can't go up much because the slave masters import workers to keep them down.
Yes, but they also export work. So American workers are screwed two ways.
14
komputodo
2023 Apr 7, 11:47am
komputodo
2023 Apr 7, 11:47am
RWSGFY says
So a person doesn't need a set amount of money to be financially independent. Some may need 5 mil and others only need 50k. The ones that need 5 mil though are the ones that spend most of their lives busting their asses trying to get there.
komputodo says
mell says
Though being financially independent makes one happy,
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
I think the definition of financial independence is universal: ability to maintain a desired lifestyle w/o need to work.
So a person doesn't need a set amount of money to be financially independent. Some may need 5 mil and others only need 50k. The ones that need 5 mil though are the ones that spend most of their lives busting their asses trying to get there.
15
zzyzzx
2023 Apr 7, 11:50am
zzyzzx
2023 Apr 7, 11:50am
komputodo says
Living in Caligulan splendor without having to work (meaning having enough investment income).
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
Living in Caligulan splendor without having to work (meaning having enough investment income).
16
RWSGFY
2023 Apr 7, 12:08pm
RWSGFY
2023 Apr 7, 12:08pm
komputodo says
Pretty much.
RWSGFY says
komputodo says
mell says
Though being financially independent makes one happy,
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
I think the definition of financial independence is universal: ability to maintain a desired lifestyle w/o need to work.
So a person doesn't need a set amount of money to be financially independent. Some may need 5 mil and others only need 50k. The ones that need 5 mil though are the ones that spend most of their lives busting their asses trying to get there.
Pretty much.
17
mell
2023 Apr 7, 1:05pm
komputodo says
Having enough money for the entire family while not depending on a full time job.
mell says
Though being financially independent makes one happy,
what does "being financially independent" mean to you?
Having enough money for the entire family while not depending on a full time job.
18
komputodo
2023 Apr 8, 9:13am
komputodo
2023 Apr 8, 9:13am
mell says
What does fully retire mean to you? Does it mean to not "work" anymore? What is "work" to you? If you enjoy being a chef or an artist or repairing electronic devices and get paid to do it, is that considered work? That you need to stop doing what you enjoy doing to call yourself retired? Or does working mean doing something that you don't enjoy but do it just for the money?
I'll never fully retire cause I like what I do, but set a hard stop at early semi retirement. Leaving CA will likely be a part of it ;)
What does fully retire mean to you? Does it mean to not "work" anymore? What is "work" to you? If you enjoy being a chef or an artist or repairing electronic devices and get paid to do it, is that considered work? That you need to stop doing what you enjoy doing to call yourself retired? Or does working mean doing something that you don't enjoy but do it just for the money?
19
B.A.C.A.H.
2023 Apr 8, 3:01pm
B.A.C.A.H.
2023 Apr 8, 3:01pm
Onvacation says
One of the challenges I have with these concepts is using the fiat USD to assess situations.
It matters more how you spend your money than how much you make. For the San Francisco Bay Area a good household income would be $150K. You probably wouldn't be buying a house at that salary but you could live a comfortable enjoyable life.
Our household makes around $180K and, in my opinion, we live very well.
One of the challenges I have with these concepts is using the fiat USD to assess situations.
Raises several questions.
1) What is a "good" salary these days?
2) What, if anything, should be done about the increasing wealth gap?
3) Given the rising cost of living, do you expect wages to finally start rising for thoes who remained employed during this mast recent economic downturn?