patrick.net

https://patrick.net/post/1316015/2018-05-16-1999-toyota-corolla-fine-af

I'd wait for prices to fall if you can. Maybe at least until December. That sounds pretty bad though. I'm in the market as well and have been following these guys lately: https://www.youtube.com/@CarEdge

Their caredge website is pretty useful as well. It's nice to see how long a car has been sitting on the lot before going to negotiate.

Maybe even better though: https://www.carbuyingtips.com/

I literally ran their fax-attack 21 years ago and walked out with a new car that was $500 cheaper than anyone I saw bragging about it on edmunds.com (they used to have a popular forum for every make and model)

I don't see the phrase `fax attack` on there anymore but it basically worked like this:

1. Do some research first to get an idea what a good prices is. carbuyingtips used to have a link to a guy in San Diego who subscribed to auto journals and for $40 he would give you secret manufacturer to dealer incentives for the model you were looking for. He'd do it again for free for a few months after.
2. Call lots of dealers in your surrounding area. Mine were all over the bay area out to Sacramento. Ask for the name of the fleet manager and number for the closest fax machine to his office. (nowadays probably email - even then it turned to email after the fax)
3. Leave the closest maybe 1-2 dealers off the fax list.
4. In the fax tell them what you know about what a fair price would be and let them know you are faxing lots of dealers where the best price wins.
5. I had several that negotiated with me over email. They can cut a better deal because sales isn't involved.
6. Once I had the price I liked I floated by the close dealerships and settled an out-the-door price before even going to the dealer. Honda of Palo Alto.

The car edge guys have lots of extra tips you can layer over this. The fax attack doesn't work for super hot vehicles, I bought a 2D honda accord V6 which were all over the place but not 'hot'.

When you show up have your own financing in hand. They won't like this (also don't say you're paying cash you can payoff later, just look the contract over for pre-payment penalties) and will want to finance it for you instead b/c they make extra $ on this. Tell them that's fine if they can beat yours by 1/4pt and tell them you want to see the buy rate lol... (so you can deduce how much they are making in arbitrage)

Dodge, Ram and Jeep are the manufacturers who've over-built lately where you can probably get a good deal. The others are making artificial shortages. Toyota built more cars last year than they ever have in history they just will only let the United States have a small number of their higher end vehicles.

just_passing_through says

1. Do some research first to get an idea what a good prices is. carbuyingtips used to have a link to a guy in San Diego who subscribed to auto journals and for $40 he would give you secret manufacturer to dealer incentives for the model you were looking for. He'd do it again for free for a few months after.
2. Call lots of dealers in your surrounding area. Mine were all over the bay area out to Sacramento. Ask for the name of the fleet manager and number for the closest fax machine to his office. (nowadays probably email - even then it turned to email after the fax)
3. Leave the closest maybe 1-2 dealers off the fax list.
4. In the fax tell them what you know about what a fair price would be and let them know you are faxing lots of dealers where the best price wins.
5. I had several that negotiated with me over email. They can cut a better deal because sales isn't involved.

I did this a few times, and it works reasonably well.

What I also suggest is taking a trip to TX and buying a Subaru or other cold weather vehicle there. Prices are (or were) easily $2-3K less than up north, plus they throw in 2-3 years free servicing. It's well worth the plane fare, then just drive it back up.

stereotomy says

I did this a few times, and it works reasonably well.

Drawback is it can be a lot of work. I was a broke ass kid back then. Nowadays I'm not so sure the juice is worth the squeeze.

gabbar says

The other option is an used Mercury Grand Marquis.

The Grand Marquis last year was 2011. Also, quite the extreme opposite of a Corolla.

If you go new Toyota, be careful of some of the new designs - they are reporting some issues with the newest motors and some of the new transmissions.

Also - DO NOT EVER BUY THE FIRST YEAR OF A MODEL REVISION.

Case in point - I bought a 2008 Subaru Forester (the last year of that model revision) for my wife. It didn't need a lick of maintenance until about 10 years down the road (head gaskets). A friend of mine bought a 2009 Forester (the first year of the new model revision) and had massive engine problems that took 2-3 years to finally fix (a new engine).

Make sure you figure out where along the model cycle your potential vehicle is at.

Another thing - Subaru has gone all in on CVT's. The only scoobs that don't have it are the ricer versions (STI. etc. with manual transmissions). If you have to get a CVT tranny car, look to Toyota and next Honda - they make their own instead of farming them out to some CCP outfit.

Subaru extended the warranty on all CVT equipped vehicles to 10 years. The problem is, there is no effective maintenance protocol for them - I asked dealers and SOA, and they changed the maintenance requirements. It used to be tranny fluid replacement at 36000 miles, but no more. Corporate just expects them to blow up and then be replaced to the tune of $8K or so (considering inflation, it might be over $10K in several years).

stereotomy says

Subaru extended the warranty on all CVT equipped vehicles to 10 years

Nissan did the same, but only for 8 years.

stereotomy says

If you have to get a CVT tranny car, look to Toyota

100%

life tip:

go to local mechanic, see what’s most broken under repair… don’t buy those.

If the repos have been as prolific as I've heard, an auction would be a great place to pick up a slightly used vehicle for a bargain.

stereotomy says

What I also suggest is taking a trip to TX and buying a Subaru or other cold weather vehicle there. Prices are (or were) easily $2-3K less than up north, plus they throw in 2-3 years free servicing. It's well worth the plane fare, then just drive it back up.

Sounds like a good idea. In Ohio, rust on vehicles is a big problem.

I have purchased three NEW cars in my life -- the last time was in 2007. I did it the same way each time. Here is my experience.

For a really reasonable fee Consumer Reports gave me a nice report on the vehicle I was interested in including costs to the dealership for the vehicle, the various add ons, etc.

I then went to Carsdirect.com and put together an order for the car I wanted. I received the name of a dealership and a price for the vehicle that I was looking for (or close to it).

I was able to know the markup I was paying and how that markup compared to what is regular/reasonable/fair (I am not quite sure what word to use here).

All of that information gave me some peace of mind about engaging in the transaction. I wound up purchasing all three vehicles.

My experiences were not as easy as ordering a pizza, but, I was able to avoid walking onto a lot cold and dealing with the typical SHIT BIRDS that pose as "sales people".

BTW, all the vehicles were Toyotas.

Hyundai started off as a shaky brand 20 or 30 years ago, but has improved.

Unfortunately, you'll find that everything from everyone is larded up with all sorts of electronics that you don't need and you probably don't really want, either.

If you're looking for a car (as opposed to a "light truck") your selections among the "American" brands is severely limited. For Ford, you have one vehicle to select only — Mustang. Chevrolet gives you a single "family" car — Malibu — in addition to Corvette and Camaro (and the Corvette is automatic-only).

Anything remotely like a Corolla is going to have markups if it's available at all. Wait until 2024 if you can.

Otherwise your local Jeep dealer has plenty of vehicles.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/when-to-buy-your-next-car.html
Best month to buy a car:
Least discounted months
January
February
March
April
Better discounted months
May
June
July
August
September
Most discounted months
October
November
December

I have never had a problem with any Toyota Camry I have ever owned. I've had 3 for the last 20 years. Newest is a 2023 got it for msrp, but I've seen some advertised for under msrp recently.

NuttBoxer says

If the repos have been as prolific as I've heard, an auction would be a great place to pick up a slightly used vehicle for a bargain.

My understanding is that the general public is not allowed to participate in auctions; only a car dealer can. I see individuals also getting into car flipping business.

gabbar says

My understanding is that the general public is not allowed to participate in auctions; only a car dealer can

Some auctions are dealer only. Some entire states only allow dealers. So the number of open to the public auction sites in my state is pretty slim, but I can easily drive to PA where there are a lot more.

RedStar says

I have never had a problem with any Toyota Camry I have ever owned. I've had 3 for the last 20 years. Newest is a 2023 got it for msrp, but I've seen some advertised for under msrp recently.

According to Car Edge, non hybrid Camrys are going for slightly below MSRP right now. I'm also guessing that your current choices isn't particularly good

gabbar says

NuttBoxer says

If the repos have been as prolific as I've heard, an auction would be a great place to pick up a slightly used vehicle for a bargain.

My understanding is that the general public is not allowed to participate in auctions; only a car dealer can. I see individuals also getting into car flipping business.

The only auctions I know about in San Diego are both open to the public. Finally, an area where California is more free than other states!

So, I found a one owner 1996 Toyota Corolla with 65k miles on it for $5,500. Does it make sense to pursue this for purchase?

Booger says

Some auctions are dealer only. Some entire states only allow dealers. So the number of open to the public auction sites in my state is pretty slim, but I can easily drive to PA where there are a lot more.

Pittsburgh is 1.5 hours from me, I will look into this.

gabbar says

So, I found a one owner 1996 Toyota Corolla with 65k miles on it for $5,500. Does it make sense to pursue this for purchase?

That car is almost 30 years old. Most likely it needs new shocks, battery, suspension bushings, tires, and anything else rubber that may have developed dry rot. A full engine analysis is warranted, because the oil might have gummed up a lot of things, not to mention 10% ethanol fouling the fuel lines if the car is only used a few times a year.

I'm assuming the car is in great shape otherwise and has never been in a serious accident. It's worth going over the body with a refrigerator magnet just to make sure (bondo will prevent the magnet from sticking). Don't trust the owner, unless he has 100% records from when he bought the car.

If this is a southern car, the cabin interior may be falling apart or bleached from UV unless it has been garaged almost all the time.

If it's a northern car - then fuck no. The undercarriage and suspension components are probably rust welded together.

Once you have the VIN number you can CARFAX it or check if any mandatory FHA safety or other recalls have been addressed.

stereotomy says

If it's a northern car - then fuck no. The undercarriage and suspension components are probably rust welded together.

It is a northern car, it has been in Ohio since it was purchased by the owner.

I found a one owner 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis with 53k miles on it. Seller is a senior citizen. He is asking 8k for it. Test drove it, it drives nicely. Any suggestions or recommendations? I am thinking about making an offer of $6,500.

The used car market is absolute shit now. I used to get (back in the 90's) 2-year old cars for 40-60% off original MSRP. A Grand Marquis that's 15 years old going for $8K?

What most non-car people don't understand is that age >>>>>> mileage. Time alone is enough to wear down a complicated machine like a car - anything from bearings seizing, to gum in the carburetor or engine, to disintegrating rubber seals (rubber doesn't last more than 15-20 years before it gets hard and loses seal).

That car drives like a boat, so it's hard to tell how shot the shocks are (EDIT: a lot of these cars have "air shocks" that are $$$$ to replace). Another thing to consider is that any car older than 8 years or so is a total loss if you get into an accident. My wife's 2008 Forester is worth no more than $4K. If she gets into even a moderate accident, they'll total the car if repairs > 70% of current value.

If you're strapped for cash and can't qualify for all those 6 year 0% loans, then you've got a tough row to hoe.

stereotomy says

If you're strapped for cash and can't qualify for all those 6 year 0% loans, then you've got a tough row to hoe.

It doesn't have air shocks in my opinion, its a LS model. I have funds put away to buy a new car in cash. And very good to excellent credit history. What do you recommend, go for the MGM or buy a new car (they are selling above MSRP now)?

PS: I was wrong. 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis does have air shocks as per https://www.strutmasters.com/blogs/news-updates/1992-2011-mercury-grand-marquis-suspension