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The right answer to the student loan crisis: student loans must be dischargable in bankruptcy just like all other debt


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2023 Jul 1, 1:17pm   1,867 views  43 comments

by Patrick   ➕follow (59)   💰tip   ignore  

While it's true that the personal cost for bad borrowing decisions should not be pushed onto taxpayers, much lending is also predatory and always has been, exploiting ignorance about how quickly compound interest accrues.

I was working at Wells Fargo in I think 2006 when student loan debt was made non-dischargable as a gift to banks and their lobbyists. Even then I thought that it was unfair to make this one kind of debt especially onerous.

And this gift to the banks has had the desired effect of trapping millions of naive students with debt for life, debt that a lot of them can never realistically hope to repay.

My argument is that student loan debt should be treated like any other debt, as the Constitution has this:


To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States


One could argue that they meant uniform across states, but one could also argue that they meant uniform across all kinds of debt.

So I would support a Supreme Court decision which makes student debt once again like any other kind of debt.

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3   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Jul 1, 3:22pm  

The 'right' answer is for these Millennial idiots who took the money to pay it back, period.

If it was wasted on Women Studies or BS like that, not society's problem.
4   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Jul 1, 3:23pm  

Patrick says

So I would support a Supreme Court decision which makes student debt once again like any other kind of debt.


That's not SCOTUS' job to do that. It's Congress'.
5   Ceffer   2023 Jul 1, 4:40pm  

Allowing bankruptcy for student loans would certainly dry up the student loan market and shrink the swollen U's and auxiliary 'education' mills.

Banks would just require co-signers obligated to pay the loans. The bankruptcy brainstorm for student loans that lead to the laws was started by medical students and some law students, who got the bright idea of declaring bankruptcy right after they graduated. So much for the responsible professions.

When the American Dental Association decided to go into the insurance business, they started out offering a particularly lavish, generous no fault disability package which caused a rash of dentists to blow off a finger in 'hunting accidents', so they had to scale it back.
7   AmericanKulak   2023 Jul 1, 6:02pm  

stereotomy says

At first, in the 1970's,

That classic thread, somewhere on here, needs an update.

Hey @Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.
8   richwicks   2023 Jul 1, 6:09pm  

AmericanKulak says

stereotomy says


At first, in the 1970's,

That classic thread, somewhere on here, needs an update.

Hey Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.


I don't know the thread, but it went to shit in 1971, when the US abandoned convertibility to gold.
9   Patrick   2023 Jul 1, 6:18pm  

AmericanKulak says

Hey Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.


@AmericanKulak

Why yes, it's one of my pinned threads:

https://patrick.net/post/1341417/2021-09-20-wtf-happened-in-1971
10   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Jul 1, 6:59pm  

richwicks says

Hey Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.


https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
11   clambo   2023 Jul 1, 9:00pm  

If they lent money without a commitment to pay it back, it's just unsecured debt like a credit card; the interest rates for that debt would be too high to work.

The interest rate would be as high as credit card debt is today, several times the prime rate, so unaffordable for a student to ever pay back.
12   RayAmerica   2023 Jul 2, 10:46am  

Who needs the United States Supreme Court? Not Joe Biden!

WOW: Biden Announces Plan To Defy Supreme Court After Ruling On Student Loan Forgiveness Ruling

Following the Supreme Court’s dismissal of his student-loan forgiveness plan, President Biden promptly proposed an alternative solution. On Friday, he announced his intention to implement a separate student debt-relief initiative under the Higher Education Act of 1965.

“Today’s decision has closed one path. Now we’re going to pursue another,” Biden said from the White House. “We will use every tool at our disposal to get you the student debt relief you need and reach your dreams.”

https://trendingpoliticsnews.com/biden-announces-plan-knab/
13   GNL   2023 Jul 2, 11:37am  

The goal is to reach max socialism and/or chaos.
14   HeadSet   2023 Jul 2, 1:03pm  

Booger says





Don't be fooled. More like "I tried to forgive your loans Jack, but the Trump nominated judges blocked me. Now you need to back me in packing the court and impeaching judges, plus work harder to elect more Dems."
15   AmericanKulak   2023 Jul 2, 10:06pm  

Patrick says


AmericanKulak says


Hey Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.


AmericanKulak

Why yes, it's one of my pinned threads:

https://patrick.net/post/1341417/2021-09-20-wtf-happened-in-1971


Thanks Patrick, I'm gathering more stats on that, will post there in the near future.

The ~1971 period a whole bunch a shit went South, economic and social, the social leading to the economic and vice-versa.

richwicks says


AmericanKulak says


stereotomy says


At first, in the 1970's,

That classic thread, somewhere on here, needs an update.

Hey Patrick, do you remember the name of that thread about 1972 or 1973 being "The Year" where everything started to go to shit.



I don't know the thread, but it went to shit in 1971, when the US abandoned convertibility to gold.



Also the first measureable impact of 60s social changes like Hormonal BC, Reagan's Disastrous No Fault Divorce, Welfare extended to Hobags, and the Sex Rev generally.
16   pudil   2023 Jul 3, 7:00am  

Loans are the wrong product. It should be an annuity sold by the schools to the investors. Students pay no tuition and get a small stipend for living expenses. In exchange, students agree to pay a percentage of their income to the school for a period of time post graduation. That income stream funds the annuity the school sells.

You should be able to create a very safe investment product with a structure like this because, while an individual student might drop out or get hit by a bus, you could probably predict with a great deal of accuracy what the 2023 graduating class of Harvard will make over the next 10 years.

Another interesting side effect of all this is that it would cause better schools to cost less. There’s less risk as an investor if your are buying a share of Harvard 2023 vs ITT Tech, so the school would have to pay a lower yield, so cost to students would be less.

This solves all the problems with higher education. Majors that don’t have any jobs will be mostly eliminated. Schools will stop admitting under-qualified students unlikely to graduate since it would just be a cost to them. And smart students without any money can go to any school they can get into.
17   GNL   2023 Jul 3, 8:10am  

Seems like a great idea. One of the missing pieces is the admission policy.
18   Patrick   2023 Jul 7, 2:38pm  

pudil says

Loans are the wrong product. It should be an annuity sold by the schools to the investors. Students pay no tuition and get a small stipend for living expenses. In exchange, students agree to pay a percentage of their income to the school for a period of time post graduation. That income stream funds the annuity the school sells.


I love this idea, but universities will hate it because it would force them to be responsible about providing a useful education instead of merely exploiting students.
20   HeadSet   2023 Jul 16, 5:19pm  

With interest.
21   pudil   2023 Jul 16, 6:04pm  

Patrick says

pudil says


Loans are the wrong product. It should be an annuity sold by the schools to the investors. Students pay no tuition and get a small stipend for living expenses. In exchange, students agree to pay a percentage of their income to the school for a period of time post graduation. That income stream funds the annuity the school sells.


I love this idea, but universities will hate it because it would force them to be responsible about providing a useful education instead of merely exploiting students.


Shitty schools that don’t care about actually imparting useful skills to their students. But I see no reason why a decent school couldn’t make even more money with this approach.

All that money students are paying in interest is money that the school could have had. The income from a graduating class in aggregate would be extremely predictable, so then you’d just need investors to buy shares in that class. It would be an extremely safe investment, lots of interest.

Meh, funding college is an easy financial product to figure out. I’ve come to realize that it’s just welfare for 20 something’s that has the side benefit of making them corporate slaves that have to work plus dependent on the government. It’s working as intended I think.
22   RWSGFY   2023 Jul 17, 6:35am  

One can always take their edumacation and move overseas. No need to repay anything then.
23   HeadSet   2023 Jul 17, 8:21am  

RWSGFY says

One can always take their edumacation and move overseas. No need to repay anything then.

"Overseas" likely has no use for genders studies and related academic abominations.
24   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Jul 17, 10:12am  

RWSGFY says

One can always take their edumacation and move overseas. No need to repay anything then.


Only if you don't plan on coming back and don't plan on getting social security. Your US credit will be ruined and the DoE will garnish your social security checks when you 'retire', specifically.
26   Eric Holder   2023 Jul 17, 10:46am  

Trollhole says

RWSGFY says


One can always take their edumacation and move overseas. No need to repay anything then.


Only if you don't plan on coming back and don't plan on getting social security. Your US credit will be ruined and the DoE will garnish your social security checks when you 'retire', specifically.


Gain something - give up something else.
27   Eric Holder   2023 Jul 17, 10:48am  

Trollhole says





The guy who wants his tax dollars sent to Ukraine must be a Soviet citizen, LOL. Because it's Soviet money which are being spent to repel the Red Army. The question is: why the fuck he is not deported to his native open abortarium of a country.
28   Ceffer   2023 Jul 17, 10:57am  

The goal isn't to forgive student debt, the goal is to prolong the dangling carrot con of student loan debt forgiveness for the entitled yute vote.

Political promises under Dems are made to be broken, and Satan smiles. If they didn't break as many of their promises as possible, their adrenochrome rations are cut.
29   HeadSet   2023 Jul 17, 12:40pm  

Ceffer says

The goal isn't to forgive student debt, the goal is to prolong the dangling carrot con of student loan debt forgiveness for the entitled yute vote.

Bingo.
30   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2023 Jul 17, 7:07pm  

Eric Holder says

The guy who wants his tax dollars sent to Ukraine must be a Soviet citizen, LOL. Because it's Soviet money which are being spent to repel the Red Army. The question is: why the fuck he is not deported to his native open abortarium of a country.


???????

Soviet Union has not existed for 30 years, pal.
35   RWSGFY   2024 Feb 27, 5:59pm  

Patrick says







What are we going to do with a military that big? What are purple-haired baristas with gender studies degrees gonna do in that military?
36   AmericanKulak   2024 Feb 27, 6:36pm  

RWSGFY says


What are we going to do with a military that big? What are purple-haired baristas with gender studies degrees gonna do in that military?

Set themselves on fire from their Anime Anarchist account.
41   richwicks   2024 May 7, 6:32pm  

Patrick says







What? To start a war with Iran? Kazakhstan? Liberia? Ethiopia?

Who cares? As long as it's another fucking war, our government can pilfer 100's of billions of dollars from taxpayers, setup schemes to funnel this money back to themselves, and leave us holding the fucking bag, AGAIN, like they've been doing for 25 years. Who cares how many people it kills, how much it costs US taxpayers, who gives a shit? Let's waste more fucking money, and remember, these are the people doing it:


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