patrick.net

RayAmerica says

. It just isn't possible, let alone for molten metal to continue to burn literally days after the attacks. IMO, one of the reasons they were in such a hurry to remove the all of the debris from the Towers was to tamper with the obvious evidence.

I think everyone is looking at it from the wrong angle.. Perhaps it wasn't' the fire that brought it down, but the lateral sheering of the support columns at the ground and basement level from 900,000 lbs hitting it at no less than 150mph,

Perhaps had it hit at lower floors it would not have collapsed and the jet fuel would have just burned out eventually. .Or the fire would have spread all the way up the building burning everyone like those above the floors that were struck. And even then they wouldn't have collapsed because the panes didn't hit high enough to exert those lateral sheering forces that compromised those beams and columns.

What most of us know about explosions are from what we've seen on TV for a given scenario, but we don't realize. Those are controlled detonations and carefully crafted wreckage the end result of careful planning and creating a prop that will behave the way expected on camera. The rest of what we know comes from watching building demolitions. And there's always sparks going all the way down the building to the bottom floor before it all comes down. Like the Champlain Towers the bottom must be compromised before the top floors pancaked just like the WTC.

I mean before yesterday, I was under the impression a car or motorcycle explosions happens on impact, but that's not what happened. The guard rail where the impact happened, bowed in about 3 to 4 feet, they really are designed now to to absorb as much of impact as possible. But there wasn't any fire happening there, just a slight scuff mark, perhaps that's what saved the guys life. And that's what I saw, first I saw a debris cloud,(I didn't actually see the motorcycle on impact. My friend was talking to me, and I was looking straight ahead and just saw motor cycle parts going air born. Then the explosions happened.
That's what we saw on 9-11, the planes hit the breach was created, then second or milliseconds after impact the fireball erupted and the inertia of the momentum of the plane, the flames and debris came out the other side.

On 9-11 the buildings came from the top down, so we assumed it must have been because the steel melted, and everyone is testing the time and heat from jet fuel. But if the foundations is compromised then the whole structure is doomed. And I would say 900,000 lbs of force at 150mph on WTC sized Lever, would be enough to bend or compromise your leverage.

A short piece of rebar is very mighty for prying, but get a longer piece and your liable to bend it before the thing you're trying to move will budge.

Alqeda's intentions in 1997 was to bring the Towers down. Their plan of attack was to place a van in the parking garage. They were successful in doing so, but it malfunctioned and was only a fraction of the blast they needed. They or/and the people that put them up to it, knew then, a building doesn't fall because the top got cut off or caught on fire. They collapse when the foundation get's compromised. That was their intention to break the columns and support at the base of the Towers. They sat on a hole with a honey comb of parking garages. Like the Champlain Towers, perhaps they knew then what should be evident now.

I bet you could demolish buildings just by under cutting the basement or lower floors. It will all pancake like both instances. The debris and dust field might be larger, that's why they gut them and cut up the walls.

Tenpoundbass,

So what was it exactly that brought down the 47 story Building 7? Just a reminder; it did not get hit by any plane and only suffered a relatively minor fire in a corner of the building. What brought it down?

https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1701102149411717305

I seem to be having a memory lapse.

Recall the dancing celebrators on top of their rented van as they watched the Twin Towers collapse?

What country were they from again? It seems I recall it was located somewhere in the Middle East, and that it wasn't an Arab country.

Tenpoundbass says

But when people try to tell me, that the people I know in NYC at the time, that saw the planes fly into the buildings, saw a hologram or didn't see them fly into it. That's when they lose me.

So you're unaware of how perspective can warp perception? Meaning if you're a human on the ground not expecting a plane to hit anything, then you are surprised by something thousands of feet above you traveling at very fast speed, and you haven't spent your whole life judging planes from that angle, or knowing much about them other than what the passenger section looks like, you may mistake what you see?

Tenpoundbass says

Also it takes a lot to wire up a building for a demolition, it would have been uncovered the first day they started cutting up beams and tying in explosives. The whole building would have known something was up.

Apparently you've never looked into OKC. And your hotel or whatever wasn't built as one of the strongest steel structures in the world, not even remotely apples-to-apples.

Tenpoundbass says

Or debris from the Towers spread to Tower 7.
It didn't need the added drama of saying explosives did it.

So why do they have on air voices saying to blow tower 7? Ohh, guessing you never listened to that...
Or what about the news anchors who reported 7 fell 5-15 minutes before it actually collapsed?
And 7 wasn't some rinky dink popsicle stick tower, "debris" ain't doing it.

Tenpoundbass says

Just imagine what a Jet full of fuel could do.

So according to you, if this motorcycle hit say a two story steel workshop capable of housing say five cars, and no one put it out, eventually the workshop would collapse, at free fall speed, by itself?

Let's give this opinion some visible scale...

RayAmerica says

IMO, one of the reasons they were in such a hurry to remove the all of the debris from the Towers was to tamper with the obvious evidence.

Not opinion, they literally followed the same playbook from OKC.

Tenpoundbass says

I think everyone is looking at it from the wrong angle.. Perhaps it wasn't' the fire that brought it down, but the lateral sheering of the support columns at the ground and basement level from 900,000 lbs hitting it at no less than 150mph,

You don't need to do all this "I think", and "perhaps". It's been researched, extensively, by very thorough people. Engineers who have disavowed every letter of the 9/11 report. Journalists who have tied all the strings together. You can either keep to your opinions, because you don't want to know at this point, or because you choose to believe government(not a great choice), or you can put aside your ego and world view for a minute, and honor the people who died by following so many who have sought the truth.

You owe them more than five minutes of opinionated rambling, don't you agree?

Tenpoundbass says

Alqeda's intentions in 1997 was to bring the Towers down. Their plan of attack was to place a van in the parking garage. They were successful in doing so, but it malfunctioned and was only a fraction of the blast they needed.

They dis-avowed, the attack, you know, cuz terrorists are always turning down credit for what would look like a spectacular success...

And the CIA's fingerprints are ALL OVER both incidents. But if you researched this at all, you'd know that. Especially since they created and trained Al Queda. The only thing those guys have ever done to really hurt the US is decimate the CIA's poppy production, twice now...

RayAmerica says

Tenpoundbass says

Also it takes a lot to wire up a building for a demolition, it would have been uncovered the first day they started cutting up beams and tying in explosives. The whole building would have known something was up.

Aside from the Twin Towers, how do you explain the 47 story Building 7 collapsing from a small fire without explosives?

Don't be silly, building 7 collapsed because of global warming, I mean interior warming.

NuttBoxer says

And the CIA's fingerprints are ALL OVER both incidents. But if you researched this at all, you'd know that. Especially since they created and trained Al Queda. The only thing those guys have ever done to really hurt the US is decimate the CIA's poppy production, twice now...

^^^ This ^^^

This is true. Ever check out opium production of Afghanistan under US military occupation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan




How odd that under US military occupation, opium production DRASTICALLY increased. Oh, and by coincidence, the US had an opioid addiction problem, in no small part due to the Sackler family of assholes.

The US invaded Afghanistan for several reasons, Dickhead Cheney wanted to run a pipeline through Afghanistan through the Caspian sea. Wars aren't done for a single reason, they happen when several MAFIAS agree on a course of action for their own reasons. Our government is just a criminal syndicate. Opium was one of them, oil transport from the Caspian sea was another. I'm positive there's 1/2 dozen I missed - I know the MIC loves war, the Offense Industry makes bank when they are killing people.

Hey @AmericanKulak

This is what ChatGPT reports about Israeli involvement:



It will be censored in time.

https://babylonbee.com/cleanArticle/kamala-harris-arrives-at-ground-zero-to-give-speech-about-jan-6

RayAmerica says

I seem to be having a memory lapse.

Recall the dancing celebrators on top of their rented van as they watched the Twin Towers collapse?

What country were they from again? It seems I recall it was located somewhere in the Middle East, and that it wasn't an Arab country.

Here's what I found.

They weren't "Dancing" - that claim is actually from Mohammad Atta's father interviewed on I think Egyptian TV long after 911, when the Arabs shifted from "Yay! We did it! Fuck the Great Satan!!" to "It wasn't us! We dindu nuttin!" after the US started bombing like crazy. According to the original phone call, they were "Horsing Around" that's how the lady described it in the 911 call and later to investigators.

Did Ryan Dawson the Great ever mention this? That the caller never said they were dancing, but horsing around?

The Horsing Around Israelis were kept in immigation detention for weeks and interrogated daily by multiple intel agencies, not just the FBI. before being deported several weeks after 9/11.

Turns out they were working on Tourist Visas and the guy who owns the company is now back in the USA. He fled because he was paying them under the table and didn't want to get busted for employment law violations.

When the attack happened, the American employees of the same Van Company said the boss and the later "Horsing Around Israelis" expressed shock and disgust. Electronic tracing and Witness accounts have absolved the Israelis of being near the towers that morning.

Obviously guys with moving vans and boxes have box cutters. They had cash because they were paid off the books and the guy with the cash had a ticker for India later that week with his earnings, which he obviously never took as he was in US custody for weeks held by immigration and being thoroughly interrogated.

Here is the source I'm using - note it's PRO-Fakestine, Anti-Ukraine, etc.
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/09/11/dancing-israelis-9-11-plotters-spies-scam-artists/

But neither Obama nor Bush ever facilitated the enforcement of Visa regulations and overstays that would have prevented this and 911

richwicks says

This is what ChatGPT reports about Israeli involvement:

I see "rumor", "debunked", "claim" in that ChatGPT screenshot.

See my post above above.

Many other people were arrested on 911, including a couple of Turkish guys who broke down in Fort Rhee Lee. The Israelis themselves were stopped at a checkpoint later trying to get back to their Brooklyn apartment, they were not arrested at the parking lot where they were viewing the explosion that morning.

THIS is what evidence looks like:

RayAmerica says

Of course a plane hit the Pentagon. I mean, why would they use a missile when they already had a fucking plane?

Gee whiz, a GENERAL lying in the military. WHAT an UNUSUAL thing..

AmericanKulak says

THIS is what evidence looks like:

@AmericanKulak Really? What document? What page?

Why do, assholes, who SUPPOSEDLY have damning evidence never link to that damning evidence?

richwicks says

AmericanKulak Really? What document? What page?

Didn't you just make a claim a few posts back that I have yet to see backed by anything about the Moving Company moving the 911 hijackers? Asking chatGPT about it and posting a screenshot where the AI itself quotes "Claims" and "Debunked" ain't a source.

Okay, Pot Kettle Caller, here's your sauce.

Here it is:
https://28pagesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/declasspart4.pdf

Page 8, page 17, page 19. Includes AQ supporters and 911 hijacker aquaintances being financed with monthly subsidies via Bandar and Princes and Spouses.

That took a few seconds to open a tab and use the Brave Search to find it.

Here is ANOTHER document finally unclassified after almost 20 years on the connection between Top Saudi Government Officials and Princes and the Hijackers:

https://vault.fbi.gov/9-11-attacks-investigation-and-related-materials/9-11-material-released-in-response-to-executive-order-14040

And another:
https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/columns/2018/09/10/anderson-did-mueller-mislead-public-about-911/10730144007/

Most of the held-back parts of the original 911 parts and other documents trickled out over the years contain a plethora of Saudi-based support for the Hijackers, of whom 15 of the 19 were Saudi and the rest other Muslims.

The biggest censoring and delayed release the US Government has done re: 911 is mostly around the role of high ranking Saudis in 911.

AmericanKulak says

Didn't you just make a claim a few posts back that I have yet to see backed by anything about the Moving Company moving the 911 hijackers?

Yeah, but that's not the interesting part. What's interesting is that ChatGPT acknowledges there were Israelis recording. NO "news" agency in the United States admits that now. I am surprised it admits to it at all.

AmericanKulak says

Here it is:
https://28pagesdotorg.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/declasspart4.pdf

Page 8, page 17, page 19. Includes AQ supporters and 911 hijacker aquaintances being financed with monthly subsidies via Bandar and Princes and Spouses.

You mean page 417? That's what is printed at the bottom as the page number? I see mention of the FIB informant, how is it know this is Robert Mueller?

I know what a piece of shit Robert Mueller is, he was the handler for Whitey Bulger. He sent 4 innocent people to prison to protect Bulger.

https://www.columnblog.com/p/nyt-runs-pro-saudi-op-ed-without

richwicks says

Of course a plane hit the Pentagon. I mean, why would they use a missile when they already had a fucking plane?

There were many, many false reports of hijacking that day. No proof they ever had any of the planes claimed to be used. Just an empty field where for the first and last time in human history, a plane completely disintegrated on impact. Then a wrecked first floor only section of the Pentagon with no visible damage from the steel jet engines that hit it...

richwicks says

You mean page 417? That's what is printed at the bottom as the page number? I see mention of the FIB informant, how is it know this is Robert Mueller?

According to the PDF pagination, at least when I open it in Brave. You can do a find for "Asset" which will give most of the same results.

richwicks says

I know what a piece of shit Robert Mueller is, he was the handler for Whitey Bulger. He sent 4 innocent people to prison to protect Bulger.

Of course. And he was a handler for high ranking Princes in the KSA.

richwicks says

Yeah, but that's not the interesting part. What's interesting is that ChatGPT acknowledges there were Israelis recording. NO "news" agency in the United States admits that now. I am surprised it admits to it at all.

Yes, like millions of other people in NYC that day who recorded and took pictures. One of them had brought a camera in one of those Time Store Electronics shops, as a young guy, he had booked a ticket for India.

AmericanKulak says

"The Horsing Around Israelis were kept in immigation detention for weeks and interrogated daily by multiple intel agencies, not just the FBI. before being deported several weeks after 9/11."

If memory serves, they were flown out of the USA within hours of their arrest.

Forget ‘blame game’ and ‘blame exoneration’ crap for ‘my team’, consider how these things are likely planned. My fragile theory is that these are business ventures attracting shareholders from many camps.

BIS operates as a war investment and financial clearinghouse for all manner of psychopathic world ventures. They organized Hitler’s shareholders in WWII. Like Goldman Sachs is to IPO’s, BIS is to world psychopaths for their war and false flag business ventures.

The ‘odd bedfellows’ phenomenon arises when a particular psychopath with ambitions will in certain circumstances ally themselves to the stock offering of a possibly adverse psychopath. The investments can be non-denominational, with each psychopathic entity evaluating the merits of the shareholding scheme for themselves. They probably have ‘pitch artists’ with laser pointers, graphs, profit projections, resource thievery etc. and powerpoint presentations for various false flags scenarios pending. BIS et alia probably have all kinds of generic blueprints with projected financing and participation opportunities for various war and false flag scenarios

The multifarious groups, even if they were to seem at cross polarities with each other, were given an opportunity to invest in the 9/11 enterprise for whatever purposes they deemed fit. Each investor also had to provide resources and cover stories to the caper to the extent they were able. MIC would invest enthusiastically because it would profit massively.

It was an Illuminati LLC investment opportunity, with the parties all believing they had something to gain from the investment. The schemes, as long as they were deemed profitable, would get the top down organizational imprimaturs of the Swiss Octagon. Each investing party would turn the event to their own purposes.

Lots of elites and investing Intel agencies already knew 9/11 would occur ahead of time. It wasn’t a secret. Shit, it was predicted by William Cooper and the X-files at 'civilian level' for holy fuck’s sake, and even illustrated in a card from the Illuminati Card Game. The date is one of their gematria/astrology holy dates for Satanic execution. It was executed with the audacious, in your face contempt of the public that we have come to know and love from our plotting world murderers.

The CCP, for instance, are happy with various shape shifting alliances, renting themselves out, and wearing different, short term, expiring alliance hats, like implementing Covid fraud and leasing their DEW satellites to the Globalists to reduce Lahaina to cinders. We can see CCP also enthusiastically exploited Covid Fraud for their own doubling down of tyranny and social control.

If the heat gets too strong, the investors will all start playing a game of musical chairs blame, pointing the finger at each other while shrugging their shoulders in innocent disbelief that anybody would question their integrity.

I think it is safe to say that the Pentagon was not hit by a plane, but by a missile.

Here's why:

The most secure building on earth, with dozens of security cameras pointing everywhere, somehow just malfunctioned on that fateful day. (Interesting how those darn cameras seem to always fail when you need them most).

Trained, experienced airlines pilots are on record stating that NO PILOT could have manually flown a jet airliner into the Pentagon. One of the main reasons is that a plane requires much higher altitude in order to have sufficient lift needed to maneuver the plane. The plane simply wasn't capable for such a maneuver, let alone while being flown by student pilots that were trained using a prop trainer.

The hole in the Pentagon was too small for an airliner, and the two titanium jet engines on each wing would have made huge holes in the building. Also, after the attack, light poles in the supposed flight pattern were still standing. How did the massive airliner avoid hitting these poles?

It was a cruise missile, and not an airliner that hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

RayAmerica says

It was a cruise missile, and not an airliner that hit the Pentagon on 9/11.

Like the missile hole in PA, where the plane remnants didn't survive, but jihadi ID and clean boxcutters (scattered in after the fact) remained miraculously unscathed.

Ceffer says

Like the missile hole in PA, where the plane remnants didn't survive, but jihadi ID and clean boxcutters (scattered in after the fact) remained miraculously unscathed.

I'm not sure, but I think this is an official forensic photo of the flight 93 debris field.

RayAmerica says

I'm not sure, but I think this is an official forensic photo of the flight 93 debris field.

Oops. My bad. How could I dare question the official narrative?

I'm glad I could help out. Now off with that Tin Foil Hat for good and no more of this conspiracy nonsense.

RayAmerica says

I'm glad I could help out. Now off with that Tin Foil Hat for good and no more of this conspiracy nonsense.

Yes, I'm back to the regular nonsense now.

RayAmerica says

Trained, experienced airlines pilots are on record stating that NO PILOT could have manually flown a jet airliner into the Pentagon. at altitude.

Why not? That is not much different than doing a visual approach and landing on a runway. In both cases the pilot has an aimpoint. Of course, I am talking about a trained pilot proficient in landings, which I hear those hijackers never practiced landings.

RayAmerica says

One of the main reasons is that a plane requires much higher altitude in order to have sufficient lift needed to maneuver the plane.

That makes no sense, as lift actually decreases with altitude due to less dense air. This is why the takeoff run is longer. at higher elevation airports.

Making Pancakes