patrick.net

komputodo says

And the more bombs that are dropped, the more destruction happens to ukraine...after a few years of this there will be nothing left but rubble...Is that a win?

That is up for the Ukrainians to decide.

Apparently, Ukrainians would rather live free of Russian occupation even if that means destroyed infrastructure and lives.

What is Russia's "win" at this point? Every week Russia are losing more men and have now essentially lost their HQ for the Black Sea.

So, while everybody is clutching their pearls over the Russian menace, nobody questions that the foreign occupied foreign city state of Washington DC is printing money inflating us, while vampirizing our resources, to protect their criminal empire in the middle of Eurasia, while simultaneously attempting to destroy rather than improve and build our country. Destroy us on our home soil while no holds barred supporting of a country that's a criminal conspiracy. HMMMMMMM?

Nice inversion of perception, Satan. That captured MSM and propaganda engine works a pip.

Ceffer says

So, while everybody is clutching their pearls over the Russian menace,

I would argue it is your side that is "clutching pearls" over Russia fearing Putin will nuke America or it is some sort of preposterous Satanic Globohomo conspiracy if Russia is not allowed to successfully invade and destroy their sovereign neighbor.

Whereas, I see Russia's amazing cock-up of a war exposing the total incompetence, corruption and exhaustion of Russia's military. I am personally less worried about Russia today after seeing 18 months of Russia' pathetic display. Russia nuclear arsenal is probably in worse shape.

But leave it to the "Smart Party" to get a bunch of Republicans to be seen as being sympathetic to Putin as we lead up to the 2024 election. I am sure the Media and the Democrats will be more than happy to ring that around our necks.

socal2 says

That is up for the Ukrainians to decide.

LOL, really.....the Ukrainians gets to decide or just 1 or a few asshole leaders who are lining their pockets get to decide...Did we get a vote on whether to get involved in the ukraine war or any of the other previous wars?

socal2 says

As far as we can tell, the Ukrainians are as motivated as ever to kick invaders out of their country - including Crimea.

you mean as far as the MSM tells you, the Ukrainians are as motivated as ever to kick invaders out of their country - including Crimea. People seem to forget that normal people just want to make a living, raise a family, have food, electricity, water and gas, hospitals, schools, churches..Have a car and gasoline...take a vacation now and then, etc...Normal people don't want their cities and homes destroyed and their sons killed,

socal2 says

Every week Russia are losing more men

How many?

komputodo says

you mean as far as the MSM tells you, the Ukrainians are as motivated as ever to kick invaders out of their country - including Crimea

I read several media perspectives Left to Right including Ukrainian Telegram channels. All the pro-Ukraine sites have been very tempered and sober predicting a long hard slog.

If there was truly a massive population in Ukraine that was pro-Russian or just apathetic to Russia's invasion wanting to end the war - we would have seen quite a bit of evidence of it now.

So what if Ukraine is 'protecting its borders' (which is not literally or figuratively the case, anyway). What the flying fuck does that have to do with us half way around the world? Why would we choose to champion somebody else's fight and by what motive that isn't completely criminal or insane?

Those billions and billions being poured into the murder of Ukraine could be better used protecting our own borders, improving our own job markets/economy, supporting our veterans, cleaning up our now feral KommieKunt cities, and building our own infrastructure.

The marvel of the propaganda is that it twists priorities into supporting evil and blinding to that evil. The Globalists WANT Ukraine burned to radioactive cinders because it is their CRIME SCENE, and they want the evidence burned down. Half of what the Ukrainian Nazis have on the West is blackmail through all the evidence of their crime syndicates and corruption. Goad the Russkies into nukes on Kiev and turning Ukraine into a true waste land is the Globalist Mafia burning down the restaurant that they used to launder money, transport drugs, traffic children, sell weapons on the black market, etc. etc. Same exact motive, different scale.

Ceffer says

Those billions and billions being poured into the murder of Ukraine could be better used protecting our own borders, improving our own job markets/economy, supporting our veterans, cleaning up our now feral KommieKunt cities, and building our own infrastructure.

I am a pretty big border hawk, but don't see how HIMARS, Javelins and Cluster munitions will help.

The US military budget is enormous and we have loads of weapons that we will never use or have to set aside for disposal like Cluster shells. Giving unused weapons to Ukraine to destroy Russia's invading military is a probably the best ROI we have ever gotten from MIC.

There is alot bankrupting America (i.e. entitlements) - weapons going to Ukraine is a drop in the bucket.

Has Russia taken Odessa off the negotiating table for the remains of Ukraine to utilize? They seemed to be holding it out for a while as an negotiating carrot.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1706067684214161687

socal2 says

As far as we can tell, the Ukrainians are as motivated as ever to kick invaders out of their country - including Crimea.

sure, thats why they have to conscript soldiers and jail those who wont fight... yep...highly motivated

komputodo says

sure, thats why they have to conscript soldiers and jail those who wont fight... yep...highly motivated

Every country (including America) has draft dodgers.

No doubt there are still many Russian sympathizers in Ukraine as well.

But do you really think Russian soldiers, conscripts, Mobiks, convicts are more motivated (let alone trained and armed) than their Ukrainian counterparts to risk their lives and limbs for land in Eastern Ukraine?

socal2 says

But do you really think Russian soldiers, conscripts, Mobiks, convicts are more motivated (let alone trained and armed) than their Ukrainian counterparts to risk their lives and limbs for land in Eastern Ukraine?

Given how 100,000 Russians VOLUNTEERED to sign up in the past six months, the answer would 'yes'.

Especially since it is the Ukeys losing life and limb more than the Russians, who are shooting from fortified defensive positions at stupid Ukeys. Killing ratio is 10:1 or higher if the Ukeys get themselves trapped in a pocket ripe for Russian artillery shelling.

Especially since pay for Russian soldiers is at least now twice that of avg Russian civilian salaries.

Where do you get your bullshit 'information' propaganda from?

Trollhole says

Where do you get your bullshit 'information' propaganda from?

I find it hilarious that Patnet's Russian boosters who have spent the last year making absolute concrete predictions time and time again of Russia's total success - only to be proven wrong repeatedly - are now questioning folks like me as to where I get my information.

Maybe you should broaden your horizons from just relying on MacGreggor and Gateway Pundit and stop being so wrong all the time?

Where has the Russian goalposts been moved to these days?

socal2 says

Where has the Russian goalposts been moved to these days?

take the whole southern coast and leave the ukies landlocked

socal2 says

who have spent the last year making absolute concrete predictions time and time again of Russia's total success - only to be proven wrong repeatedly - are now questioning folks like me as to where I get my information.

You didn't answer my question. Instead you just freak out with the ad hominems, projection...and speaking of moving goalposts, things that are absolutely unrelated to that which I mention when calling you out on all that 'morale' BS.

Full of shit.

Big_Johnson says

Putin is a madman.

In what way? Be specific.

Has he attacked 7 nations in the last 20 years? Is he causing a famine in Yemen? Did he kill 800,000 Iraqis over a lie about weapons of mass destruction? Does he force his "news" media to constantly spout propaganda and bullshit? Does he have any journalists he's extraditing from foreign countries because they exposed criminal behavior of his government like Julian Assange?

Big_Johnson says

The best would be to assassinate him.

He's just be replaced by another person that is even more hawkish than he is.

Big_Johnson says

There is no justification to invade a country like this.

The US has shown there needs to be no justification. They don't actually justify their wars. I mean, why did the US blow up Libya? Supposed it was "to prevent a humanitarian crisis", well it's in civil war now and has slavery markets. Where's the concern about that humanitarian crisis the United States caused?

Big_Johnson says

The western world is United on this view and will provide endless funds to support resistance against Russia.

So? The western world is morally bankrupt, and they're being run over by migrants on top of it. The leaders of the "western world" are nothing but hypocritical criminals and liars that start completely unnecessary wars, and just lie to the subjects about why they are doing it. You'd have to be a real fool to believe anything they say, unfortunately, there's a lot of fools in the western world.

Ukraine will slowly be demolished, they are now actively trying to recruit WOMEN into the military now. I expect the war to go on until the entire Ukrainian military is wiped out, then all the mercenaries who have a suicide wish to be wiped out.

clambo says

I'd rather my tax dollars goes to blowing up Russian shit than healthcare for illegals and their bastard children, ghetto bastard children, rich pensions for government goldbricks, etc. etc.

Well 1/2 your wish is going to come true.

Also, fuck the people of Palestine Ohio and Maui.

socal2 says

As far as we can tell, the Ukrainians are as motivated as ever to kick invaders out of their country - including Crimea.

Well, the ones not dead possibly.

socal2 says

If there was truly a massive population in Ukraine that was pro-Russian or just apathetic to Russia's invasion wanting to end the war - we would have seen quite a bit of evidence of it now.

The Donbass and Crimea. They just want Zelenski to leave them alone.

socal2 says

I find it hilarious that Patnet's Russian boosters who have spent the last year making absolute concrete predictions time and time again of Russia's total success - only to be proven wrong repeatedly - are now questioning folks like me as to where I get my information.

Did I?

https://patrick.net/post/1343140/2021-12-29-a-ukraine-war-and-the-end-of-russia?start=1#comment-1808895

Who cares. The cabal that runs the United States is just killing all of us with these stupid wars. Russia will fight a war of attrition and just allow the US to continue to bankrupt the entire nation for something 99.99% of the US population has no stake in. The Middle East has been doing this for 2 decades now.

I bet if it came to war in Ukraine, Russia wouldn't even cut off their energy exports to Europe although the US might sabotage these pipelines and then attempt to blame Russia.

The United States is causing this conflict, not Russia. It's just another example of the insanity that runs this nation. The US has bombed 7 nations over the last 20 years - has this in any way benefited this nation?

Notice, I wrote that BEFORE Russia invaded on December 28, 2021. Russia went in on February 24, 2022.

I don't know much about Russia really, but I do know the United States quite well. Our state department always "fucks up", we either have the most astoundingly incompetent people in the state department, OR we have active saboteurs in it. Doesn't really matter either way, the intent doesn't matter, the result does, and the results are easy to predict. I've seen it 7 times in the last 20 years, and studied those 7 times.

I expect this to end like Vietnam and I expect the war to go on for at least, minimum, of 2 more years. Not an expert by any means on Vietnam either, but I know the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag, and the Pentagon Papers showed the military knew LONG before the war ended, that there was no chance of prevailing in the war. Discord leaks (if you're to trust them) say the same thing, the military already knows Ukraine is a lost cause.

Engh, we'll find out and all the dickheads and assholes, they will never reflect on being wrong AGAIN. Neocon Chickhawk motherfuckers. They just keep "making mistakes" and deny they were fooled YET AGAIN. Fucking 20 years of this shit. These cattle are all around me. I know people who defend the Libyan bombing, or ONCE did. Now "I never said that!".

socal2 says

I would argue it is your side that is "clutching pearls" over Russia fearing Putin will nuke America or it is some sort of preposterous Satanic Globohomo conspiracy if Russia is not allowed to successfully invade and destroy their sovereign neighbor.

Just who is doing this? Name them.

I believe that there's zero chance that Ukraine will prevail in this conflict, and that Russia will ultimately set terms of the end of the war, after it goes on for years, and it wipes out Ukraine's military, and hence all their young fighting men. I expect Ukraine to be divided into West and East, and for the West to be under Russia's thumb from that point forward.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Russia enact an energy embargo on Europe, because why bother to try to trade with your enemy and I expect NATO to be significantly weakened, not that it has any actual use other than to launder money anyhow. NATO might even dissolve. The EU could POSSIBLY dissolve, but I doubt it.

Europe will be poorer, Russia will be richer, the US will be poorer. This war, like ALL the wars the US gets involved with just weakens the United States, causes inflation, and degrades the moral standing of the United States.


original link

The US is the world leader in hypocrisy and dishonesty. "A wholly unjustified, and brutal invasion of Iraq... I mean Ukraine. (Iraq too..)" - audience laughs - who the fuck is in the audience? Just fucking disgusting.

If you didn't catch it, George W. Bush in that video, precisely, described the United States. EVERYTHING he claimed Russia is doing, the United States is doing or has done.

Geopolitics doesn't change much depending on who is in office. Whomever replaces Putin will still be bound by geopolitical reality:

The Germans will always want to dominate Europe, The Russians will always want to hold the MacKinder Pivot and a buffer on the steppes and boglands going into Europe, But we are very free to do what's best at the time because of our geographic location, with plenty of prep time to rectify any mistakes.

Sadly, we don't take advantage of the latter and keep a ridiculously massive force on hand at all times, and are incredibly over-officered which is a massive expense as well. That's deliberate, since the Army wants more officers than command or staff needs in case of a big sudden draft, legacy of Cold War. It also means we are bloated with huge numbers of chubby trans-queer MBAs who couldn't lead a boy scout pack a mile out of a national forest with a map and compass. Then the consolidation of more and more contractors and congressional district job splitting and obsession with one-size-fits-all Intruder-Fighters like the F-35 garbage because the Air Force likes to shock and awe infrastructre bombing and not dogfight or do close air support. Even though the former has never ended any serious war.

BRRRRtttt mockers are invariably Lockheed bots and employees.

AmericanKulak says

Sadly, we don't take advantage of the latter and keep a ridiculously massive force on hand at all times

Have I been hallucinating NATO this entire time? Hunh.

richwicks says

Have I been hallucinating NATO this entire time? Hunh.

North American Taxes/Troops Only standing and short-term ready unit strength is over half US forces, so no.

As we keep a ridiculously large force on hand at all times... which we shouldn't and don't need to do. But we do do.

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Have I been hallucinating NATO this entire time? Hunh.

North American Taxes/Troops Only standing and short-term ready unit strength is over half US forces, so no.

So - NATO serves no purpose. If what you just said is what you believe, that's the conclusion isn't it?

AmericanKulak says

As we keep a ridiculously large force on hand at all times... which we shouldn't and don't need to do. But we do do.

It's just a way of laundering money, and paying off bribes.

You have no idea how corrupt our nation is. Our nation starts wars for congressmen to make money off from Offense Contractors. For THEM at least, they authorize wars to kill 100's of thousands for no other reason. They have absolutely no concern for the health of the nation.

You cannot understand what a sociopath really is, I do. That's who rules this nation. You cannot accept that somebody will engage in the most outrageous immorality for short term gain, our "leaders" do. It pisses me off to no end you can't comprehend this, because you think these fuckers must be like you. They aren't.

Big_Johnson says

Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia is bombarding/shelling hospitals, schools, residential buildings.

Western Ukraine did this, for years, nobody complained:


original link

That's from here: https://www.cnn.com/2014/09/02/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html

Don't claim your heart bleeds, because it doesn't. How do you think I know about this? Engh, when there's slavery in Libya, well, that's OK, even if the US caused it. That's my experience with the cattle. I'm not like you.

Big_Johnson says

Russia has a history of doing this. They invaded Finland in 1939 and bombarded Helsinki. Thank the universe russia didn’t succeed. One of the many wars Russia started and lost. Speaking of fools. One fool here was saying Russia never lost a war. Giant lol.

Who gives a shit? The US has attacked 7 nations in the last 20 years. You don't worry about that. You don't worry about it to such a point you can't even name the nations, much less the bullshit excuses the US has given for attacking them. I can't even name the bullshit reasons for Yemen and Somalia, because the Federal government has never justified it, because the public is entirely unaware of it.

Big_Johnson says

You can criticize the western countries as much as you want. They are the lesser evil IMO,

You can judge any fucking way you want. It's still evil, and you won't speak out against it because "there's a greater evil". Isn't that right?

Big_Johnson says

Why don’t you put your money/house where your mouth is and immigrate to Russia?

I am witnessing the collapse. I wouldn't go to Russia, I would go to South America if I wanted to escape it.

Big_Johnson says

Them attacking their neighbors doesn’t bother you and I am sure they will love your anti-western rhetoric. You might be welcomed with open arms and they might offer you a lead position in their propaganda.

They don't need anything from me. They are in the same position the United States was 40 years ago, all they need to do for "propaganda" is to tell the truth about the US government. They don't need to distort, much less lie.

Remember, "Russia hacked our elections" and "Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation". The absolute stupidest fools believe this. I just gave people far too much credit. I though people just didn't bother to think, but when it's so easy to think, they still repeat the dumbest fucking propaganda. I have vastly over-estimated people all my life. They are stupid.

You seem to think my belief in this stupid fucking war, that Ukraine will win, will make any difference. It's psychotic. If I believe harder will they win? That appears to be what you believe, and if I don't believe in their victory, I'm a traitor. I suppose you believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny still as well. My assessment is devoid of what I want to happen. It's very predictable. We have stupid Neocon fuckheads who are either traitors to this nation or incompetents running our foreign policy, of course this proxy war will fail. All their wars do.

The closest we came to a victory was Iraq - what did the US win? How did this advantage our nation? You have no idea, but you still stupidly support the next dumb fucking war even though it hurts everybody, unless you're some fucking piece of shit working for the murder industrial complex.

Big_Johnson says

Why don’t you put your money/house where your mouth is and immigrate to Russia?

Why don't you volunteer to fight for Ukraine?

Those that ignore history are heading for disaster. Ukraine is as corrupt as the Biden administration. "If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money." Well, son of a bitch. He got fired.'"

Onvacation says

Big_Johnson says

Why don’t you put your money/house where your mouth is and immigrate to Russia?

Why don't you volunteer to fight for Ukraine?

Those that ignore history are heading for disaster. Ukraine is as corrupt as the Biden administration. "If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money." Well, son of a bitch. He got fired.'"

He'll no more fight for Ukraine than I would for Russia.

It's easy to send off gullible fools to war, it's quite a bit harder to say there should be no war.

If I were to pick up a gun to kill somebody, I'd kill a banker first, and if that didn't work, go to a politician. I don't think it would make any difference. You have to cut the head off the snake, and I still can't exactly identify the head.

After all, what's my problem with Russians? I have none, but my government creates problems between countries. Now if I could eliminate them...

If I was confident I could fix the problem with murder, I would. I have zero confidence I can fix the problem. It's far more complex than I understand and even if I did, I doubt I'd have any chance of success. It would just be a messy way to commit suicide, and I know the media, the would deify anybody I murdered, and it would absolutely be a murder.

I think I have to just observe and notice. I'm limited to that.

Big_Johnson says

Why don’t you volunteer to fight for Russia? You could kill Ukrainian woman and children. Except they don’t take people over the age of 80 to fight for them. Btw., how old are you exactly?

Is it really beyond your capacity of mind to believe that a person wants nobody killed?

You're creating a false dichotomy. You are knowingly do this.

The sane desire is to end the war, you're the one promoting a war, but you're uninvolved. If you want to promote war, kill in one, or die in one, or both.

Ukraine is highly unlikely to be victorious in this conflict, if this is what happenes, all lives that were lost in the war, were lost for nothing. Russia will have gotten what they wanted and Ukraine would have lost whatever they wanted (and that is very unspecified). The result will just be a lot of dead bodies.

But your body won't be counted among them, will they?

Trollhole says

It’s Time to Stop Backing Ukraine

Gravy train doesn't stop until US is reduced to third world status. Money for foreigners, none for East Palestine, none for Maui.

The Ukraine War ... Myth vs Reality

Myth:

Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an unprovoked war of aggression. Russia is an evil nation that is out to conquer Europe, and probably, the world. If we don't stop their unjust invasion of Ukraine, we'll eventually be fighting them in Europe and possibly even over here.

Reality:

The USA guaranteed an eventual invasion of Ukraine when, after the collapse of the USSR, the promise made to Gorbachev by George H. W. Bush & Sec. of State James Baker not to expand NATO by "one inch" was dramatically broken with NATO expanding in a manner that virtually surrounded Russia. Then, in 2013/14, a coup was orchestrated by the U. S. Government to remove from power the Ukraine Government that just so happened to be friendly with Russia.

Myth:

Ukraine is winning the war. They will not only kick the Russians out of Ukraine, but also will capture Crimea. They only need more money and armaments in order to finish what will surely be a victory for Ukraine.

Reality:

Ukraine never had a chance in defeating Russia, as in NEVER. Furthermore, Putin has waged a very limited, controlled warfare, as evidenced by the fact that had he desired to destroy Ukraine he would have, due to Russia's overwhelming fire power.

Ukraine's much vaunted spring offensive, by all accounts, is a complete, utter failure. To date, the small nation of Ukraine has lost over *400,000 soldiers and counting. That kind of loss is unsustainable, illustrated by the fact that Ukraine is so desperate for fighting men that they are forcefully capturing men off of the streets, giving them a rifle, and sending them immediately to the front lines, only to fight against seasoned, professional, well-equipped Russian forces. Ukraine soldiers are on record describing the ongoing slaughter of these poorly trained Ukraine amateur soldiers.

* To put this military death toll in perspective, all of the military deaths suffered by the USA, in both the Pacific and in Europe, amounted to an estimated 407,000. At the outbreak of World War II, the population of the USA was estimated to be about 150 million. The current population of Ukraine is approximately 29 million. Obviously, the per capita death toll for Ukraine is astronomical in comparison to the losses of the USA in all of World War II.

Interesting timing: right after Red Fleet in the Black Sea was tricemated and its commaners killled it's SUDDENLY time to surrender to the mighty USSR. The vaginisation of some self-proclaimed "conservatives" is astounding. Reagan is rolling in his grave.

If anything it's time to abandon Obamaesque limpdicking and Brandonesque foot -dragging and deliver the necessary long-range weaponry in quantity. It's obvious that all the chickenclucking about Pukin's "redlines" wrt hits at Crimea and Soviet territory proper (including Moscow) was just manifestations of weak minds and lack of cojones. Want this war to end? Give all the necessary tools to these who have the balls to fight.

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1706129638605328646?s=20

RWSGFY says

Interesting timing: right after Red Fleet in the Black Sea was tricemated and its commaners killled it's SUDDENLY time to surrender to the mighty USSR. The vaginisation of some self-proclaimed "conservatives" is astounding. Reagan is rolling in his grave.

They are not Conservatives.

Mostly a mix of 9/11 Troofers, anti-Semites, Birchers, Islamist apologists and people who have been radicalized by the treatment of Trump.

They are not agnostic claiming they just want to see the killing stopped and economic security restored. Some are gleefully cheering on Russia's invasion and celebrating Ukraine's death toll.

Same fuckers will be cheering for Communist China if/when they invade Taiwan claiming America provoked it.

Big_Johnson says

“Same fuckers will be cheering for Communist China if/when they invade Taiwan claiming America provoked it”

Lol. Exactly.

And if China commitments war crimes it will be pointed out that the US did something in Yemen or Libya.

have you ever considered focusing on the myriad of problems plaguing the US instead of countries half way around the world? just askin'

Part of the $113 Billion so far goes to pay the following:

America is paying the salaries of 57,000 Ukrainian first responders.

While Biden continues to ignore the huge shortfalls in the Social Security surplus fund, America is paying the pensions for Ukrainians.

The U. S. government continues to ignore the invasion taking place on our southern border which will eventually overwhelm our system. Yet, many Americans ignore this, while they enthusiastically support the sure to fail war efforts of Ukraine. Amazing!

komputodo says

have you ever considered focusing on the myriad of problems plaguing the US instead of countries half way around the world? just askin'

Sure. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

I am not wigging out over Ukraine thinking Russia will nuke us or worry that Europe will freeze to death like some folks here at Patnet have been confidently predicting this past year. I am perfectly fine sending excess and mothballed weapons to Ukrainians if they are willing to defend their territory and keep one our chief economic/military rivals tied up in attritional warfare.

If it causes North Korea and Iran to bleed out their weapons stores by shipping them to Russia - all the better!

The military aid we have provided Ukraine is the best ROI we have gotten from our massively bloated military budget in my entire lifetime!

socal2 says

Sure. I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Except we won't/can't.

So it's time to force the issue: hold Ukey Nazi support hostage in Congress until we get what we want. At the very least

Schokolade says

Those myths you are stating are what I believe to be true instead.

It’s all a BS discussion anyways. let’s just agree to disagree.

Whatever happened to that Ostrich Button?