patrick.net

NuttBoxer says

I know who Margaret Sanger is. But she was from NY, and definitely didn't coin moral superiority. Don't fucking tell me Puritans didn't consider themselves morally superior, think about the fucking word man, PURitan, c'mon!

Margeret Sanger was born in Upstate NY to lapsed "Freethinking" Catholics and apparently was member of a liberalized Dutch Reformed Church. She was also a feminist.

Puritanism is about PURIFYING the Anglican Church with more Calvinist and Biblical Doctrine. Have you read the Puritans? They agonized over their salvation and paths to it. For a while it was the fashion to name kids "PraiseGod Barebones" to emphasize the inability of Man to save themselves.

There's a ton of cheap kindle books about Puritan writings, please take a skim of them.

Many brag about all their "Considering all sides" but it's very clear they depend on one or a small group of sources and never check the claims there against mainstream or oppositional stances.

NuttBoxer says

People who never bothered to learn about the USS Liberty.

Dude, I have posts on here about the USS Liberty. Probably dozens. You'll learn how a handful of crew went back on their sworn testimony, the holy Ship's Log, etc. years after they gave it when prompted and flattered with attention from biased writers seeking to interview them. Or how the Liberty was way off course due to a combination of jamming and 6th Fleet's inadequate radio transmission system, which was immediately fixed in the weeks following by the USN. Nor did the attack last "Hours"

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated. Just kill a bunch of people and a government that just tried to inject you with God knows what suddenly is the paragon of truth and nobility.

Oh well.

richwicks says

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated. Just kill a bunch of people and a government that just tried to inject you with God knows what suddenly is the paragon of truth and nobility.

AmericanKulak says

Many brag about all their "Considering all sides" but it's very clear they depend on one or a small group of sources and never check the claims there against mainstream or oppositional stances.

Oh well.

richwicks says

Wow. People are still very easily manipulated.

I never said anything of the sort. So I am not sure why you spend that much effort on your keyboard with this gaslighting attempt.

I just thought it was ironic that Hamas is on video killing a Jewish female peace activist who had refused to join the Israeli military.

Hamas showed no mercy with the peace concert attendees.

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ad says

Hamas showed no mercy with the peace concert attendees.

The answer is easy:

It was either only a few deaths of those that resisted and some kidnappings for hostage exchange - the "Moderate" position
OR
The ZioBritish Lugenpresse made it all up.

ad says

I never said anything of the sort. So I am not sure why you spend that much effort on your keyboard with this gaslighting attempt.

I'm pointing out that people are immediately absorbing "the narrative".

We have a news media that lied about the Iraq War, Libya, Syria, lied about vaccinations, lied about the pandemic, lied about mostly peaceful protests, lied about January 6, lied about a lot more, but nearly everybody above is drawing conclusions.

You can't know what is going on or what even happened. Why are you drawing conclusions?

NuttBoxer says

Ismael was Israel's brother, and all Muslims trace back to him.

You may have meant all Arabs trace back to him.

richwicks says

I'm pointing out that people are immediately absorbing "the narrative".

Watch this as far as "narrative".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egipqa0ZhUk

See above video of a Sky News interview of a Hamas elected official Basem Naim who is still in Gaza.

He states that there are "no civilians" as far as Israel citizens living near Gaza such as in kibbutz's.

He says that any Israeli living in Israel are military members and not peaceful civilians since they contribute to the war against Palestinians.

That is what is getting lost in the narrative covered by the mainstream media.

They do not report that the Palestinians view any Israeli living in Israel as an enemy and legitimate target for their terrorism.

At 14 20 in the video the Hamas elected official states that the Israeli citizens killed in the Hamas terrorist acts are "not civilians".

.

ad says

Watch this as far as "narrative".

Come on. Are you capable of nuanced thinking?

Ray Epps proves that Trump supporters were trying to overthrow the government ..

I can't stress this more than possible I ignore what people say. You can pay somebody to take a drug that will kill you.

richwicks says

Come on. Are you capable of nuanced thinking?

Watch the video again. He says that any Israeli that lives near Gaza is not a "civilian" and they are treated as a legitimate target.

.

ad says

Watch the video again. He says that any Israeli that lives near Gaza is not a "civilian" and they are treated as a legitimate target.

It doesn't matter what he says. Hamas was created by Israel anyhow - you might want to go to 1:25:



You have no idea who that man actually is. Is he Hamas? Is he Mossad? Just ignore these people. The first indication that something might be propaganda, is that it's on television. I just entirely avoid the damned thing and I don't trust anything they try to sell. They lie too often, and too easily.

richwicks says

It doesn't matter what he says. Hamas was created by Israel anyhow

Yes, just like Al Qeada in Afghanistan was created by the USA in the 1980's ?

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ad says

Yes, just like Al Qeada in Afghanistan was created by the USA in the 1980's ?

They are always treating Radical Islamists like simple ball bearings bouncing around from US stimulus and therefore have no ideology or responsibility for their actions.

ad says

Yes, just like Al Qeada in Afghanistan was created by the USA in the 1980's ?

Yes. You're not being sarcastic are you? BinLaden was clearly our man in Afghanistan, under the CIA. At the time we were arming the "Mujahideen", binLaden was our contact for this. When the soviets left, the Mujahideen controlled the country, we just renamed it the Taliban (which was a subset of the Mujahideen) when they continued to fight for absolute independence - they beat the soviets, and they were trying to remove the Americans.

socal2 says

They are always treating Radical Islamists like simple ball bearings bouncing around from US stimulus and therefore have no ideology or responsibility for their actions.

Nothing I have said is incorrect. There used to be TV movies about the horrors of the soviets and the great bravery of the scrappy yet morally good Mujahideen. I remember those times. One TV film showed the soviets crushing an Mujahideen fighter under a tank as a form of torturing a larger group to get them to talk. I remember this over 40 years later because it was so shocking, powerful propaganda.

You seem to think things aren't interconnected. The binLaden family is tightly connected to the Bush family - and the Bush family was CIA, George H. Bush was director of the CIA at one point. These aren't all just coincidences, in fact, I doubt any of them are.

richwicks says

Ray Epps proves that Trump supporters were trying to overthrow the government ..

The tactic of terrorists is to couch their attacks as the justified acts of a desperate people treated horribly (nevermind the food courts in the Gaza Malls and the top 10 women/top 20 male global obesity rates), and then portray the response as gross indifference to human lives when collateral damage happens.

The same people who whinge about Israel apologize for Assad the Elder in Hama 1982.

It's an Alinsky-style double dilemma. The solution is to ignore it.

AmericanKulak says

The tactic of terrorists is to couch their attacks as the justified acts of a desperate people treated horribly (nevermind the food courts in the Gaza Malls and the top 10 women/top 20 male global obesity rates), and then portray the response as gross indifference to human lives when collateral damage happens.

OK, first who cares? I don't care about propaganda, irrelevant.

Second, you have touched a spot with me in this. The "luxury mall" in Gaza you're talking about is two stories, and has maybe, 8 stores and is a little box with a tiny atrium in the center - would make a nice home for a billionaire maybe. Took me the longest time to find that. I remember that well. That was during the Mavi Marmara incident where that piece of propaganda showed up. Find this "luxury mall" on the map.

Here's a decent mall in the US:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/qfHwBf99BWCW4uVS9

That's in a tiny town in Northern NY called Watertown.

See if you can find the "luxury mall" of Gaza on the map :)

AmericanKulak says

The same people who whinge about Israel apologize for Assad the Elder in Hama 1982.

It's an Alinsky-style double dilemma. The solution is to ignore it.

I agree, ignore it.

Alinksy was a moron, but a lot of stuff is attributed to him that he never said. Rules for Radicals was just an appeal that "left wing thinkers" infiltrate the government and change the system from the inside. You should read all the books of the people you are trained to hate. Decide if you actually hate them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGI8vHXWaPs

If you prefer just an mp3, ping me, and I can provide it. I didn't find anything in the book that was particularly brilliant, or even smart, or even controversial. I don't know why the book is so cited. Nothing amazing about it.

What I find frustrating with this dull book, is that it's CONSTANTLY cited, when it should just be forgotten. I don't think it was really impactful on widespread thinking BUT if you want, you can listen to it on your commute, and decide for yourself.

It's one of those books that supposedly had this HUGE societal impact, when it didn't. Origin of the Species did, I'd say Propaganda by Edward Bernays did (or at least Bernays did), I'd say The Moral Animal by Robert Wright had more of an impact - as that kind of upended the bullshit of modern psychology.

jews aren’t exclusively gods people, thats just jewish supremacy talk. all people are gods people.

jews have not been better than other arabs they are at war with.

I don't see a long term middle east solution unless it involves a Final Solution on someones part.

I believe that Bibi has back stabbers working in his Government doing their damndest to sabotage him and throw him in peril, like Trump got at every turn.
I'm convinced at this point, those that were supposed to be monitoring the cameras, and listening in on the Scuttlebutt, were complicit in the planning of the attack. To look away as it were, just like the Prison guards at Jeffery Goldstein's Suicide night.
If you recall they tried to lock him up for being a Right wing, conservative criminal, and for not being a commie Marxist. The left's playbook around the world. So I believe that by allowing this attack on Israel, they can imperil him no matter how he responds. If he doesn't do enough, he's incompetent, if he does to much he'll be a war criminal that committed crimes against humanity. They are going to blame him for the attack anyway, saying he let it happen.
The propaganda machine is in full swing now calling Hamas a Masad creation.

I think this time is different, this isn't the usual Israel Middle East intrigue, it's much more. The SOP before was to have a unibomber blow up a bus or cafe in Telewviev, this was something totally different. Something only Marxist Commies and their Muslim cohorts could do, to bring down the traditional status quo.

Furthermore, the Israeli military’s Hannibal Directive, a controversial protocol allowing the army to end the lives of its captured soldiers to prevent their abduction alive, has come under scrutiny in the ongoing Gaza conflict. Reports suggest that Israeli bombardments of Gaza have resulted in the deaths of four captured Israeli soldiers. In addition, six other soldiers captured by Palestinian militants on the third day of the conflict were killed while being transported into Gaza.

The Hannibal directive has long been a subject of debate and criticism, both domestically within Israel and internationally. The recent events in Gaza, where the directive seems to have been invoked, are likely to reignite discussions about its ethical implications and the broader consequences of such a policy in the context of warfare.

https://ejmagnier.com/2023/10/09/gazas-new-challenges-the-drone-onslaught-that-awaits-israel/

So now Israel is cutting off food and water to the people of Gaza. Didn’t Hitler do that?
Didn’t they put people behind concrete walls in a ghetto and starve them?

zzyzzx says

So now Israel is cutting off food and water to the people of Gaza. Didn’t Hitler do that?
Didn’t they put people behind concrete walls in a ghetto and starve them?

Did the Jews in Polish Ghettos formally declare war on Nazi Germany, firing thousands of rockets and raping and killing hundreds of German women and children?

Hamas (the Democratically elected government of Gaza) explicitly says their goal is to wipe out Israel and every Jew on earth (it is all written out in their Charter). Hamas says there can be no 2 state solution or coexistence with Israel.

But you think Israel is required to provide free power and water to the terrorist society that just killed nearly 1,000 Israelis including cutting the heads off babies??

The sources that tie Hamas back to CIA and Mossad are government. And they've been made way before last weekend.

Putin might not like you, but Biden definitely hates you. Hamas may want to behead you, but Mossad will shoot your kids if they're in the way. You're problem is you look for good guys in government, and there are very few of those.

Look what ever in the fuck Hamas is, those fuckers were the ones flying in on the whirly birds gunning down thots in booty shorts gyrating with their hands up like they just don't care. I'm the last fucker to blame other people for the actions of what I saw for my own fucking self.
When Bibi comes flying in on a whirly bird leading the Hamas asault then I'll join in on who's fault is who's to blame.
People start organizations all the time that run away get away from the original intent.
I mean do we blame George Washington for Joe Biden and Obama's miserable excuse for Presidential administrations?

NuttBoxer says

Hamas may want to behead you, but Mossad will shoot you if you try to behead babies.

FFY

Tenpoundbass says

just like the Prison guards at Jeffery Goldstein's Suicide night.

You mean Jeffrey Epstein - but I think your hypothesis might have something to it.

zzyzzx says

So now Israel is cutting off food and water to the people of Gaza. Didn’t Hitler do that?
Didn’t they put people behind concrete walls in a ghetto and starve them?

Oh no... We can't use "whataboutism" can we??

Although the situations are entirely the same, they're completely different you see!!!

socal2 says

Did the Jews in Polish Ghettos formally declare war on Nazi Germany

What's this FORMALLY bullshit? What, do I need to sign an affidavit in triplicate and get some "authority" to recognize it to resist some goon trying to break into my home?

socal2 says

But you think Israel is required to provide free power and water to the terrorist society that just killed nearly 1,000 Israelis including cutting the heads off babies??

Well, Israel did blow up their power plant, and won't let them rebuild, so...

NuttBoxer says

The sources that tie Hamas back to CIA and Mossad are government. And they've been made way before last weekend.

Putin might not like you, but Biden definitely hates you. Hamas may want to behead you, but Mossad will shoot your kids if they're in the way. You're problem is you look for good guys in government, and there are very few of those.

... unless we're talking the government in Moscow! These guys dindu nuffin! Bucha? - CGI! Dropping a 1-ton bomb on the Mariupol theater? - They did it to themselves! Cruise missiles flying into apartment blocks and shopping malls - there were Nazis there anyway!

zzyzzx says

So now Israel is cutting off food and water to the people of Gaza. Didn’t Hitler do that?
Didn’t they put people behind concrete walls in a ghetto and starve them?

I know, what kind of army has ever cut off food, water, etc. to besiege a city.

Why I bet when Fallujah was being stormed, the USMC made sure Habbib's Pastry and Malik's Milk truck made the regular rounds.

"Hold on, squad, make way for Ismail's Ice Cream Van!"

Leningrad, Rotterdam, Derry - besiegers ALWAYS resupply the population inside the city!

Daddy Assad Muh Sexy Lion never did this in Hama in 1982 when he was dealing with the Muslim Brotherhood.

What Israel is doing is outrageous!

Amazing how people will dismiss all precedent in order to make false equivalencies.

AmericanKulak says

I know, what kind of army has ever cut off food, water, etc. to besiege a city.

Why I bet when Fallujah was being stormed, the USMC made sure Habbib's Pastry and Malik's Milk truck made the regular rounds.

Yeah, it's a warcrime though, not that we care about that. It only matters if our enemy does it. When Russia does this, it's the end of the world and Putin is Hitler 5.0 - when Israel does it, well, of course, when the US does it, well of course.

Hypocrisy and double standards are Western Policy now.

richwicks says

Yeah, it's a warcrime though, not that we care about that. It only matters if our enemy does it. When Russia does this, it's the end of the world and Putin is Hitler 5.0 - when Israel does it, well, of course, when the US does it, well of course.

Nope. It's not.

If it is, literally every country has done it in the past century, so it's as much of a "Crime" as removing the matress tag from a mattress.

Next we'll get the "White Phosphorus cap on the smoke bomb is chemical warfare" canard.

In fact, bookmark the White Phosphorus, that bullshit is next.

No matter how many times ALL SIDES used WP Screens in the Ukraine Conflict, Syria, etc. recently.

By the way, Shani Louk might be alive.

Since she only has a severe head injury (read: survived gunshot), broken legs, was kidnapped, probably raped, spit on, and her credit card swiped in Gaza, that means Israel is a BUNCHA DIRTY ZIOLIARS and ITS ALL FAKEY MCFAKESVILLE and Hamas DINDU NUTTIN WRONG.

Not that she miraculously survived being attacked, beaten, shot, kidnapped, probably molested for dancing at a Peace Festival.

AmericanKulak says

If it is, literally every country has done it in the past century, so it's as much of a "Crime" as removing the matress tag from a mattress.

It's one of the things the Nazis were charged with. Attacking infrastructure is technically a war crime, so is terrorizing the population, so Shock and Awe was a war crime.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v2/rule54

It doesn't really matter, all of our presidents are war criminals, and if we prosecuted them the same way we did with a few Nazis, they'd all have been executed. There is no law.

I have heard countless times the US bitch and whine about Soviet warcrimes in the 1980s. So when my nation did the SAME EXACT FUCKING THING, I got upset because my government led me to believe they followed rules, and had principles, and ethics - they don't.

When I got older I found out that it was the ALLIES that did aerial bombardment first, and things like the London Blitzkrieg, was just retaliation. The US used to dump out firebombs on Japan, it was little cans filled with oil, that had a piece of cloth attached. These were dropped from planes.

We were EVERY BIT as awful as the Nazis were, which is why there's such exaggeration of what the Nazis did.

The only purpose of the Geneva Conventions, or "International Law" is for propaganda purposes. NOBODY follows it, including us.

richwicks says

It's one of the things the Nazis were charged with. Attacking infrastructure is technically a war crime, so is terrorizing the population, so Shock and Awe was a war crime.

Okay, when is Bashar the Lion facing charges for all his sieges in the Syrian Civil War?

richwicks says

When I got older I found out that it was the ALLIES that did aerial bombardment first, and things like the London Blitzkrieg, was just retaliation. The US used to dump out firebombs on Japan, it was little cans filled with oil, that had a piece of cloth attached. These were dropped from planes.

No, the first aerial bombing was of Warsaw (1939), then of Rotterdam (1940). After the Nazis bombed London (Aug-Sep 1940), the British began bombing Germany. In fact the Luftwaffe deliberately strafed roads in Poland full of refugees fleeing the fighting to slow down Polish attempts at reinforcement.

richwicks says

The only purpose of the Geneva Conventions, or "International Law" is for propaganda purposes. NOBODY follows it, including us.

Good, so we can dismiss any whinging of Gaza being Besieged like any other enemy city got besieged since time began.

I can't think of one time a besieger has ever fed or watered the enemy city during the siege.

AmericanKulak says

Okay, when is Bashar the Lion facing charges for all his sieges in the Syrian Civil War?

Well the US has been trying to kill him for ages. Also, the US lies about him as well, so who knows if there were ANY sieges?

The Douma Chemical attack NEVER happened. It wasn't 1 whistleblower that came forward, but TWO.

Because the United States LIED about this, they no longer have ANY credibility.

To have any confidence that al-Assad did any sieges, I would have to find somebody that

1) Acknowledges that the Douma Chemical attack never happened
2) The US Federal government lied about this for propaganda purposes
3) Agrees that al-Assad did the sieges.

See, the problem is, when the source is a FUCKING LIAR, I can't trust anything they say.

AmericanKulak says

No, the first aerial bombing was of Warsaw (1939), then of Rotterdam (1940). After the Nazis bombed London (Aug-Sep 1940), the British began bombing Germany. In fact the Luftwaffe deliberately strafed roads in Poland full of refugees fleeing the fighting to slow down Polish attempts at reinforcement.

You could be right, I'm not perfect on WWII, there's just so much bullshit said about it. I can only concentrate on particular lies of my government.