patrick.net

“An overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in its war against Hamas over the militant group running the Gaza Strip, according to a new poll.

The Harvard CAPS-Harris survey shared with The Hill showed 80 percent of registered voters said they support Israel more in the war, while 20 percent said they support Hamas more. That is about in line with the poll’s findings from last month, when 79 percent indicated they support Israel more.”

This quote cited above by AmericanKulak has false framing. No one apart from radical leftists and islamists supports Hamas per se. Many do, however, find Israel’s bombing campaign indiscriminate and barbaric.

It’s the same binary thinking as the Iraq War’s “you’re with us or you’re with the terrorists.” One can criticize Israel without supporting Hamas (though ironically Israel helped found and fund Hamas); one can criticize Jewish policy without advocating anti-semitism.

I suspect if the poll were asked honestly, not “Do you support Israel or Hamas” but “Is Israel committing atrocities in its response to Oct 7th,” you’d get an entirely different breakdown than 80/20.

goofus says

An overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in its war against Hamas over the militant group running the Gaza Strip, according to a new poll.

So? I bet 99 people out of 100 couldn't find Israel on a map. They are entirely ignorant. TV tells them what to "think", or at least what to believe. As television wanes, as people get fed up with sites that censor, as it becomes more difficult to control propaganda and "the narrative", it will change. I'm just worried how far it will change. We might become the 4th Reich, and I don't want that.

richwicks says

goofus says

An overwhelming majority of Americans support Israel in its war against Hamas over the militant group running the Gaza Strip, according to a new poll.

So? I bet 99 people out of 100 couldn't find Israel on a map. They are entirely ignorant. TV tells them what to "think", or at least what to believe. As television wanes, as people get fed up with sites that censor, as it becomes more difficult to control propaganda and "the narrative", it will change. I'm just worried how far it will change. We might become the 4th Reich, and I don't want that.

Right, people are easily led, and yet this very survey was trotted out to further influence people in favor of Israeli policy. Just pointing out that the framing is deceptive in that few support Hamas, but nevertheless don’t want to fund Israel’s bombing of homes, hospitals, universities, refugee zones, aid workers, etc.

If you’re worried about a 4th Reich, I would suggest this is exactly what Biden and his mediaborg would like you to fear: the red herring of white supremacy taking hold and destroying “our democracy.” I think we’re further down the path toward minority in-groups holding the majority out-group responsible for any and all historical suffering. This was Bolshevism’s hook, and we’re all “American kulaks” to those in power now.

I suspect a lot of this was "Fuck the MENA migrants" by Proxy

goofus says

This quote cited above by AmericanKulak has false framing. No one apart from radical leftists and islamists supports Hamas per se. Many do, however, find Israel’s bombing campaign indiscriminate and barbaric.

Yes, dropping non-lethal knock-bombs on roofs in the middle of a massive urban warfare campaign is indiscriminate. Constantly setting up new safe zones, at the cost of Hamas militiamen hiding amongst civilians with plenty of time to move is barbaric. Israel as always is over the top to avoid civilian casualties; the UN was forced to revise their Hamas-sourced numbers way down and it looks like it's going to go further down. The whole "600 mass graves from a mass killing in a 20-car open parking lot" was busted weeks ago.

Go look at some WW2 and post WW2 urban warfare casualties and combatant:non-combatant estimates and get back to me. Especially over a multi-month period.

Propaganda comes from Indy Pedantic journalists that rehash Russian, Syrian, MB, and iranian crap as well.

goofus says

It’s the same binary thinking as the Iraq War’s “you’re with us or you’re with the terrorists.” One can criticize Israel without supporting Hamas (though ironically Israel helped found and fund Hamas); one can criticize Jewish policy without advocating anti-semitism.

Okay:

Because a ceasefire with a terror group that wisely doesn't claim statehood lest they be held to statehood standards of behavior (ie launching rockets over the border = undeniable causus belli for a just war), that just violated a ceasefire with no cause or warning October 7th to kill 1200 civilians and take 100s of civilian captives (two warcrimes), all because you can't avoid civilian casualties in urban warfare in not an option.

The truth is some don't want Hamas to go away because they feel it will eventually help Israel be dismembered

You never see this level of enthusiasm or attention for when 8000 Nigerian Christians are killed in a year, or Pakistanis disguise themselves as Kashmiri Insurgents to sieze Indian seasonal outposts, etc. etc.

Famous Khazarian Leader, Khan Oivei

(quote function is squawking at large quotes)

“Yes, dropping non-lethal knock-bombs on roofs in the middle of a massive urban warfare campaign is indiscriminate. Constantly setting up new safe zones, at the cost of Hamas militiamen hiding amongst civilians with plenty of time to move is barbaric. Israel as always is over the top to avoid civilian casualties; the UN was forced to revise their Hamas-sourced numbers way down and it looks like it's going to go further down.

Go look at some WW2 and post WW2 urban warfare casualties and combatant:non-combatant estimates and get back to me. Especially over a multi-month period.”

It’s fish in a barrel over there in Gaza, with 30k killed in 7 months. No comparison with troops vs troops in the world wars. Palestine doesn’t even have troops. Odd comparison.

goofus says

It’s fish in a barrel over there in Gaza. No comparison with troops vs troops in the world wars.

Not at all. The Nazis firebombed Rotterdam in 1940 when a handful of stubborn Dutchmen were endangering their France invasion timetable.

Remember UNRWA facilities with 100s of employees had water and electric hookups to extensive miles of bunkers and tunnels under them. There's NO way the UN Bureaucrats didn't know.

Go have a reasonable, not superficial look. And don't use post 2022 information, esp. from Wiki, since the SFBA leftoid editors have been rapidly at work.

“The truth is some don't want Hamas to go away because they feel it will eventually help Israel be dismembered

You never see this level of enthusiasm or attention for when 8000 Nigerian Christians are killed in a year, or Pakistanis disguise themselves as Kashmiri Insurgents to sieze Indian seasonal outposts, etc. etc.”

It probably has to do with us funding and arming the Israeli side. We’re not funding Pakistani insurgents or Nigerian Muslims … so far as I know. Though it appears we did help fund “Daesh” or “moderate Syrian rebels” which eventually was acknowledged to be ISIS. (US aid needs a caveat doesn’t it, haa.)

goofus says

It probably has to do with us funding and arming the Israeli side. We’re not funding Pakistani insurgents or Nigerian Muslims … so far as I know. Though it appears we did help fund “Daesh” or “moderate Syrian rebels” which eventually was acknowledged to be ISIS. (US aid needs a caveat doesn’t it, haa.)

For a very long time, the US funded the Paki Military. And we don't fund Nigerian Muslims or Christians. Or the Rohingya terrorists or the Muslim Sri Lankan terrorists, and definitely not Burma or the Sri lankan government to any significant degree.

We do help Turkey, yet Sultan Erdogan revoked the museum status of the Hagia Sofia and restored Islamic takeover of it.

The whole "it's the USA" is an Internalized Leftism argument, part of demoralization and destabilization - make the US look responsible for all evil and no good. Softening it up for increasing Corporate Socialism and/or the next Revolution.

The Eurovision votes are an interesting proxy: The official jurors were very at odds with the voting public.

goofus says

Just pointing out that the framing is deceptive in that few support Hamas, but nevertheless don’t want to fund Israel’s bombing of homes, hospitals, universities, refugee zones, aid workers, etc.

A very very tiny portion of the US minority realize this is what is being done. Most Americans have no clue, but they are willing to mindlessly repeat what they heard on the damned propaganda box as "truth". Reason, logic, facts - those don't matter. Unless it's been on that infernal box, it's false.

AmericanKulak says

Yes, dropping non-lethal knock-bombs on roofs in the middle of a massive urban warfare campaign is indiscriminate.

Yeah, but they don't actually do that. That's what our media reports, and this is what Israel claims.

I am so tired of the brainwashed, that after being lied into the Iraq war, the Syrian war, the bombing of Libya, the overthrow of Ukraine, the covid bullshit hoax, still can't realize MAYBE they are being lied to about Israel. Of course you are.

How can you keep falling for lie after lie after lie? I once charitably considered you naive and/or stupid, now I consider you inhuman.

AmericanKulak says

The whole "it's the USA" is an Internalized Leftism argument, part of demoralization and destabilization - make the US look responsible for all evil and no good. Softening it up for increasing Corporate Socialism and/or the next Revolution.

Well fucking put an end to this myth then.

Withdraw from these areas.

You claim, I believe falsely, that intervention is a good thing, I'm saying it's not. Put it to the test. Withdraw and we'll find out in a few years.

This is like "the government does good things" - oh? Let me withdraw from it. Let's find out if I need the damned thing.

goofus says

If you’re worried about a 4th Reich, I would suggest this is exactly what Biden and his mediaborg would like you to fear: the red herring of white supremacy taking hold and destroying “our democracy.”

Here, you want to know the truth? We've been in the 4th Reich for 2 decades now. It's just not been announced.

Our media is total fucking propaganda, our students are completely indoctrinated even into university levels, and our media does open and blatant social and political propaganda from Blue's Clues Nina West Drag Queen bullshit up to Slava Ukraini. Almost everybody around me is a propaganda victim.

People are taught conflicting principles to make them dependent on a party, not a set of principles. "Oh, you support 2SLGBTQ, you must support the vaccine, you must support any bullshit reason to prosecute Trump, you must support Palestine, you must hate the founding fathers" - you're a group of tribal animals. 99% of of you will blindly support the "party line" and they know this.

I guarantee that what I just listed as examples you all see as "left". Is suppression of free speech left? That is part of the vaccine bullshit, that's part of the support of Israel's war in Gaza's bullshit - but the LEFT is attacking free speech, right? Yeah they are, they are false opposition. My worst mistake was being curious about how propaganda works, how you're divided. You're split up over and over and over again, you don't have the capacity to abandon a group and accept personal principles, which we almost all have in common.

IF you could accept your principles, you'd find we are all in 90%+ agreement, and I mean everybody. Congress has a 15% approval rating, yet they still keep getting elected, how about that? It's like it doesn't matter how we vote, but we voted them in, RIGHT? How do you know? You don't, and you don't question it, I do.

richwicks says

Our media is total fucking propaganda

They just read the script or narrative given to them. Look at recently the missile strikes on Israel by Iran and vice versa.

That seemed too scripted as far as news reporting. What was interesting was Bitcoin dropped a lot before Iran's missile attack on Israel.

Did the US intel community transfer Bitcoin to Iran's government or Islamic Revolutionary Guard (IRG) and then the IRG cashed it out ?

Were there any deaths or injuries from the Iranian missile strike on Israel ?

.

AD says

Were there any deaths or injuries from the Iranian missile strike on Israel ?

I can answer this at least - no.

They were announced. Countries announce what they are going to attack to other nations because there's no reason to kill people, it's a demonstration of power. Iran was like "we're going to attack X, better get out, and try to stop us!", so they got out, attempted to stop them, and failed. It's a demonstration of what they CAN do.

Israel is weak, they didn't announce their planned attacks. Iran didn't intend to kill anybody, Israel did.

Everybody is like "Iran is EVIL!!!", no they aren't. They are very calculated and extremely direct. They know killing people doesn't actually do anything, it's just another sock puppet to replace them. They are just showing they can attack any location, Iron Dome or not. They could have bombed the Knesset if they wanted, but they didn't, they attacked one of the most heavily fortified military bases in all of Israel just to show they could do it.

Iran just demonstrated quite plainly they can defend themselves and they can defeat "the most moral army in the world", if they want. They can bomb any location in Israel they want. Iran doesn't just waste money on military bullshit, they actually spend it to develop actual weapons. WE waste money on military bullshit. They have hypersonics, those are unstoppable, can't be intercepted, are tremendously expensive, but we don't have them, neither does Israel, nobody in the West does. Anyplace on the ground is a sitting duck. Iran just used their 3rd rate weaponry to confound Israel's first rate defense. They aren't even trying.

Here's a question, have you ever known any Ayatollah to lie? You may vehemently disagree with their statements, but I've never known one to lie. I see my politicians lying all the fucking time. They are brutal in their honesty. If you can name a time when they actually lied, point it out. They have sworn to this date not to make nuclear weapons, and there is no evidence they have, and they've never lied before. You can hate their religion, I don't really like it, but I respect their honesty, as far as I've seen it. They have never lied in my experience. It's like the Pope lying, they will step down before they admit they have distorted doctrine. One of our popes stepped down because he probably was a pederast or protected one. The institution comes first for them. I wish I could say the same for our shit politicians. Instead I get a crackhead selling "art" for 1/2 million dollars each, but it's not a bribe! Honestly it's not.

goofus says

It probably has to do with us funding and arming the Israeli side. We’re not funding Pakistani insurgents or Nigerian Muslims … so far as I know.

The very existence of Pakistan is because of the UK/US who were part of breaking up India and kill 100% non Muslims and not to lose control over India.
US under the name of "aid";) (one of the best ROI) supply arms to Pakistan which is now a 100% Jihadist state purely relying only on exporting terror industry to force India to buy arms for its "safety"!

I had a co-worker from Pakistan. Like many of us, he was background checked before starting work. UNLIKE any of us, he was called up in the middle of the night and harassed by DHS, several times. Sounds like something you'd support...

One of the nicest guys I've ever met.

US backs up Israel's figures that they've killed more civilians than Hamas in Gaza. But a number of you swore that wasn't true. Guess Israel government is lying again...

https://www.infowars.com/posts/israel-killed-more-civilians-than-hamas-fighters-blinken/

The only thing worse than supporting the murder of children is the raping of children. At least some of you still have that threshold...

Almost 15,000 dead children in Gaza, @StateDeptSpox, per the UN OHCHR. This was you days after Oct 7, when approximately 99% of them were still alive. History will not forget: https://t.co/g2gGsuX69Q

— Decensored News (@decensorednews) May 8, 2024

And in case anyone's not aware, Zionists and Nazi's shared many goals, and even had an alliance during WWII:

This is not a Nazi concentration camp in World War II, 1945

This is a Gaza Concentration Camp in 2024

A Holocaust is happening right before our eyes and the world is silent.#GazaGenocide #GazaHolocaust pic.twitter.com/aREFZXoyJX

— UnCover (@uncoovr) April 30, 2024

NuttBoxer says

The only thing worse than supporting the murder of children is the raping of children. At least some of you still have that threshold...

War is and always has been horrible. Both sides are at fault and wrong. There's no point in Americans picking a side across the globe, it's not our fight. Just let them figure out their religious BS. Outside of a few recent conflicts we're in the most peaceful time historically per capita. All modern conflicts in the last 50 years should have resulted in 100M-500M deaths if we go by WWI-II standards.

Our messing around in Iraq and Afghanistan resulted in Muslim infighting. Sunni and Shia. We stirred the shit, but it wasn't the US killing everyone. That's a fabrication. We disrupted the culture and they fought amongst themselves. Our fault. Hence why we need to stay out of both the big conflicts now. Let them duke it out. Our biggest import from Israel is diamonds. We are just fine without those. We have no business being on that side of the planet in any manner.

NuttBoxer says

The only thing worse than supporting the murder of children is the raping of children. At least some of you still have that threshold...

Almost 15,000 dead children in Gaza, StateDeptSpox, per the UN OHCHR. This was you days after Oct 7, when approximately 99% of them were still alive. History will not forget: https://t.co/g2gGsuX69Q

— Decensored News (decensorednews) May 8, 2024

The UN just cut the casualty number in half - admitting that they have just been regurgitating propaganda from Hamas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MInRobKPHZM&t=1466s

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/05/11/un-halves-its-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza/

Tell me how forcing people to move to a destroyed area with no food, water, or shelter isn't murder..

These photos are from today. Families and children, returning to @UNRWA schools in Khan Younis to seek "safety" and "shelter".

The classrooms are torched. Walls are blown out. There is rubble everywhere.

This situation is unfolding under the world's watch. Enough is enough. pic.twitter.com/xJC2k25AXn

— UNRWA (@UNRWA) May 11, 2024

Are you aware of this?#Israel is asking #Rafah 1.5 million Palestinian refugees to move to Deir al-Balah and Khan Younes, both areas without houses or tents, without water, electricity, food (crossings are closed) and medical care.

Civilians in Jabaliya, north of Gaza, are…

— Elijah J. Magnier 🇪🇺 (@ejmalrai) May 11, 2024

If you have to guts to see what your warhawking does to real people:

An exhausted young Palestinian tearfully pleads for an end to the israeli genocide on #Gaza after finding out she has to be displaced yet AGAIN pic.twitter.com/X3jH1YrMZF

— Sarah Wilkinson (@swilkinsonbc) May 11, 2024

What's too far, will you stop supporting the holocaust if they bayonet babies on live TV..?

Remember when attacking a refugee camp was supposed to be a big deal? https://t.co/4egA0LT9xC

— Assal Rad (@AssalRad) May 13, 2024

Hamas can end the war today. But they won’t. They enjoy using “innocent civilians “ as pawns in their game to demonize and destroy the peaceful people of Israel.

And people like the OP are enabling Hamas to survive to kill again.

NuttBoxer says

Tell me how forcing people to move to a destroyed area with no food, water, or shelter isn't murder..

Unfortunately it's war. You kill a family member of mine, yours dies. Everyone. That's what this part of the world does. We shouldn't be involved. This has been going on for centuries. WTF is different this time? You can feel bad, but it's just crocodile tears after centuries of this shit. It will never stop.

I think Israel flat out just does it this time. Someone has to or this goes on forever. This is why religion is shit. Race is shit. Ethnicity is shit.

Gonna sound weird, but people need to look at it like food. I'd eat everyone's ethnic food. Greek, German, Chinese, Jamaican, Indian, Thai, Korean, etc. Every adult would (and should). Problem is religion gets involved and ethnicity. Who gives a shit when we'd all eat each others food?

Put this way, I've eaten Palestinian food and Israeli food. I wouldn't bomb either. This is pure religious hatred. It's gross as an agnostic human. Civilians are going to die. They made that choice. Let them do it at this point and get to a resolution.

"Just trust Sharon and leave Gaza, we've got your back if anything goes wrong and you need to go back in"

Biden: "Let me delay arms"


https://x.com/GatorNanaJag/status/1790136353193111774

Old People at a busstop, October 7th. Before and After



"It's a ZioLie!" There is are endless video clips and photos sent to and from Hamas terrorists to social media that were shared among Arabs millions of times that day.

NuttBoxer says

Tell me how forcing people to move to a destroyed area with no food, water, or shelter isn't murder..

And if they stayed and were collateral damage: "Waaaah, the ZioKillers!". Israel just opened another humanitarian aid corridor. And Egypt's Rafah border (half of Rafah is in Egypt seperated by a massive 3-layer wall to prevent Palestinian Terrorists from infiltrating Egypt to kill their tourists) is shut, and Hamas is gunning down civilians trying to get food from the aid trucks that Hamas wants to sell for money.

Remember when UNRWA lied about 30k+ deaths, and it turns out it's it was half (in almost 8 months of urban combat!) and the Children and Women:Men ratio was a total lie, too?

Reign in Utz

https://x.com/DrEliDavid/status/1791010651428511869

Smart counter Jihadis know it's best to support the Jewish Outremer and have it take the hits.

FINALLY!!!

Looks like Israel finally managed to kill some terrorists. pic.twitter.com/3djMdnXHqH

— 99% Johnny Graz (@jvgraz) May 16, 2024

Wait, why did the IDF kill their own? Can't you get a conspiracy out of this?

Obviously Israel needs to shoot children in the West Bank to FREE THE HOSTAGES!!

A child shot in the neck for no reason by Israeli occupation forces in the West Bank. He was then detained, not treated, then left at a hospital alone. Now the family has thousands in hospital bills. Normal day for a Palestinian in the occupied #WestBank. https://t.co/v1g0petD4a

— The Last American Vagabond (@TLAVagabond) May 14, 2024

If you're gonna murder women and children, why not handicapped..?

Report by @Channel4News on the murder of a disabled Palestinian with “learning difficulties,” Fouad Abu Sabha, after he threw a few stones

“It didn't look as if the stones could have been thrown far enough to actually hit the soldiers.”

“From what we can see, Fouad does not… https://t.co/OYaVksxiKI pic.twitter.com/SXOod6Xos8

— Decensored News (@decensorednews) May 14, 2024

Holy crap, a kid was killed in Urban Warfare.

Never happened in Caen, Hue, Okinawa, Berlin, Fallujah, or Warsaw.

A child was killed in Urban Warfare! What are these Zios up to!!! Pure Terrorism!

Also Hamas said 33 bodies, dead or alive, so most or all the hostages are dead anyways.