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True cost of charging an EV is equivalent to paying $17.33 a gallon.
2023 Dec 15, 6:13am 13,854 views 131 comments
by GNL follow (0)
Comments 1 - 19 of 131 Next » Last » Search these comments
1
MolotovCocktail
2023 Dec 15, 8:36am
MolotovCocktail
2023 Dec 15, 8:36am
Minor Devil's Assvocate Point:
I wonder if the price stated in comparison here to operate a gas car includes all the infrastructure, etc like they are factoring into the EV's true cost (which I don't dispute).
I wonder if the price stated in comparison here to operate a gas car includes all the infrastructure, etc like they are factoring into the EV's true cost (which I don't dispute).
2
socal2
2023 Dec 15, 8:47am
GNL says
I didn't get any subsidies for my Tesla and I am able to charge in my garage using the existing 220 outlet without any extra equipment. I rarely use Tesla Superchargers unless on a rare long road trip.
I have saved thousands in fuel costs over the last 5 years of driving EVs.
While EV advocates claim charging costs are equivalent to $1.21-per-gallon gasoline, the real amount is an order of magnitude more.
Including the charging equipment, subsidies from governments and utilities and other frequently excluded expenses, the true cost of charging an EV is equivalent to $17.33-per-gallon gasoline — but the EV owner pays less than 7% of that.
I didn't get any subsidies for my Tesla and I am able to charge in my garage using the existing 220 outlet without any extra equipment. I rarely use Tesla Superchargers unless on a rare long road trip.
I have saved thousands in fuel costs over the last 5 years of driving EVs.
3
WookieMan
2023 Dec 15, 9:01am
WookieMan
2023 Dec 15, 9:01am
It's not about today. It's about the future. EV's will 100% be more expensive to "fuel" up. You can't lose 5-10% of MFT funds and keeps roads in good shape. You can't double EV's and expect the grid to keep up without electric rates going through the roof.
There are massive flaws with EV's. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't know anything about the topic. Enjoy the car and the drive, but they're not feasible. It's a novelty. Once EV's are taxed by household and MFT kicks it, the market for EV's will crater. They're unequivocally not green at all by all measures. They're cheap for now on the electric side. They're more expensive out of the gate even with subsidies.
There's no long term future until we build the electric capacity for them. It will take 2 decades to build out nukes at least. If it's allowed. Renewables are trash. Battery storage just raises the price of the cars because of the minerals needed for EV's that are needed in batteries. Reality and what is marketed are two completely different things. I don't like to "try" and time the market, but Tesla could be an easy one to make a shit ton of money on. There's two moves coming and they will 100% happen. Enjoy for now.
There are massive flaws with EV's. Anyone saying otherwise doesn't know anything about the topic. Enjoy the car and the drive, but they're not feasible. It's a novelty. Once EV's are taxed by household and MFT kicks it, the market for EV's will crater. They're unequivocally not green at all by all measures. They're cheap for now on the electric side. They're more expensive out of the gate even with subsidies.
There's no long term future until we build the electric capacity for them. It will take 2 decades to build out nukes at least. If it's allowed. Renewables are trash. Battery storage just raises the price of the cars because of the minerals needed for EV's that are needed in batteries. Reality and what is marketed are two completely different things. I don't like to "try" and time the market, but Tesla could be an easy one to make a shit ton of money on. There's two moves coming and they will 100% happen. Enjoy for now.
4
socal2
2023 Dec 15, 9:50am
WookieMan says
Yes - there undoubtedly needs major investments in our electric grid and the Government will continue to find ways to tax EV's to support infrastructure improvement (and funding Illinois and other Blue State out of control and bonkers pension system). I don't support the government forcing deadlines or forcing the phase out of ICE right now. Teslas are so good and affordable now, people will come to them naturally like I did. I am no tree hugger. Teslas just make the most sense for me financially and in terms of personal enjoyment.
The base Model 3 (without any incentives) is $38K right now.
The average cost of a new ICE sedan in the US is over $40K.
Tesla is continuing to drive down costs and prices with all of their state of the art manufacturing and automation. Also helps that Tesla doesn't need to spend on advertising or not saddled with unions and 50+ years of pension liabilities.
It's not about today. It's about the future. EV's will 100% be more expensive to "fuel" up. You can't lose 5-10% of MFT funds and keeps roads in good shape. You can't double EV's and expect the grid to keep up without electric rates going through the roof.
Yes - there undoubtedly needs major investments in our electric grid and the Government will continue to find ways to tax EV's to support infrastructure improvement (and funding Illinois and other Blue State out of control and bonkers pension system). I don't support the government forcing deadlines or forcing the phase out of ICE right now. Teslas are so good and affordable now, people will come to them naturally like I did. I am no tree hugger. Teslas just make the most sense for me financially and in terms of personal enjoyment.
The base Model 3 (without any incentives) is $38K right now.
The average cost of a new ICE sedan in the US is over $40K.
Tesla is continuing to drive down costs and prices with all of their state of the art manufacturing and automation. Also helps that Tesla doesn't need to spend on advertising or not saddled with unions and 50+ years of pension liabilities.
5
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:06am
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:06am
I think both $1.2 and $17 per gallon claims are bogus. It's highly dependent on the location because electricity prices in the USA can be as low as $0.08 or as high as $0.56 per kWh.
In CA it's cheaper to run a hybrid than a comparable pure EV, even though gas prices are higher then in most of the country, because electricity prices are jacked up even more.
In CA it's cheaper to run a hybrid than a comparable pure EV, even though gas prices are higher then in most of the country, because electricity prices are jacked up even more.
7
MolotovCocktail
2023 Dec 15, 10:10am
MolotovCocktail
2023 Dec 15, 10:10am
WookieMan says
And they don't make sense. For every EV battery pack, 2 - 4 plug in hybrids could be built instead. Way more gasoline could be saved.
There's no long term future until we build the electric capacity for them. It will take 2 decades to build out nukes at least. If it's allowed. Renewables are trash. Battery storage just raises the price of the cars because of the minerals needed for EV's that are needed in batteries. Reality and what is marketed are two completely different things. I don't like to "try" and time the market, but Tesla could be an easy one to make a shit ton of money on. There's two moves coming and they will 100% happen. Enjoy for now.
And they don't make sense. For every EV battery pack, 2 - 4 plug in hybrids could be built instead. Way more gasoline could be saved.
8
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:22am
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:22am
Not sure how the study gets $17.33 a gallon. I tried to figure out the logic of that number, but I cant see how they arrived at it from the explanation above, or reading the links in the original story.
From my experience, I drive a car that goes 4.2 miles per kwh. Same compact car if gas or hybrid would probably get 40-45mpg. So its about 1 gallon of gas = 10 kwh equivalent (i.e. how far each will move a car of similar size). I charge in my garage and dont use any public or rapid chargers.
For me, gas costs ~$5.50. Electricity costs $0.26 per kwh. So Im paying effectively $2.60 per gallon of gas, which is about half the cost of gas in my area.. Different areas have different electricity and gas costs... ymmv.
From my experience, I drive a car that goes 4.2 miles per kwh. Same compact car if gas or hybrid would probably get 40-45mpg. So its about 1 gallon of gas = 10 kwh equivalent (i.e. how far each will move a car of similar size). I charge in my garage and dont use any public or rapid chargers.
For me, gas costs ~$5.50. Electricity costs $0.26 per kwh. So Im paying effectively $2.60 per gallon of gas, which is about half the cost of gas in my area.. Different areas have different electricity and gas costs... ymmv.
9
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:25am
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:25am
BTW, do utilities ask for the proof of EV registration to put one on a special EV rate plan, or simply providing a VIN would suffice? 👹
10
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:32am
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:32am
I chose a time-of-use plan... so I get high cost electricity during peak hours (3pm to midnight) and lower cost off peak (midnight to 3pm). I dont think proof of anything is required to select a time-of use-rate plan. But I dont really remember. I do wind up trying to run my dryer and dishwasher after midnight to get the off-peak rates for my energy hog appliances.
11
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:33am
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:33am
RWSGFY says
On the second thought it doesn't really look like a screaming deal:
BTW, do utilities ask for the proof of EV registration to put one on a special EV rate plan, or simply providing a VIN would suffice? 👹
On the second thought it doesn't really look like a screaming deal:
14
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:41am
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:41am
I dont think they asked for anything... but it was a long time ago and I dont really remember.
15
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:48am
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 10:48am
DeficitHawk says
They did ask for a VIN when I explored the idea of switching to an EV plan.
I dont think they asked for anything... but it was a long time ago and I dont really remember.
They did ask for a VIN when I explored the idea of switching to an EV plan.
16
socal2
2023 Dec 15, 10:51am
PumpingRedheads says
Hybrids are totally retarded.
Twice the complexity having both an ICE gas engine and battery drive train. So much more to go wrong and still have to dick around with changing oil, filters and dealing with complex transmission systems.......all which is absent from a pure EV.
And they don't make sense. For every EV battery pack, 2 - 4 plug in hybrids could be built instead. Way more gasoline could be saved.
Hybrids are totally retarded.
Twice the complexity having both an ICE gas engine and battery drive train. So much more to go wrong and still have to dick around with changing oil, filters and dealing with complex transmission systems.......all which is absent from a pure EV.
17
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:55am
DeficitHawk
2023 Dec 15, 10:55am
RWSGFY says
OK I may not remember. Ive had this type of rate plan since 2015. They dont come around and check. certainly I could sell my EV and they wouldnt ask me to change rate plans or anything. (If you really want time of use plan... you could probably pull a vin from a dealer website too...) but time of use plans are mostly only beneficial if you are using lots of power that you can shift to the off-peak times by using a timer.
DeficitHawk says
I dont think they asked for anything... but it was a long time ago and I dont really remember.
They did ask for a VIN when I explored the idea of switching to an EV plan.
OK I may not remember. Ive had this type of rate plan since 2015. They dont come around and check. certainly I could sell my EV and they wouldnt ask me to change rate plans or anything. (If you really want time of use plan... you could probably pull a vin from a dealer website too...) but time of use plans are mostly only beneficial if you are using lots of power that you can shift to the off-peak times by using a timer.
18
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 11:23am
RWSGFY
2023 Dec 15, 11:23am
DeficitHawk says
Already have TOU and all electricity-guzzling stuff is being ran off-peak.
RWSGFY says
DeficitHawk says
I dont think they asked for anything... but it was a long time ago and I dont really remember.
They did ask for a VIN when I explored the idea of switching to an EV plan.
OK I may not remember. Ive had this type of rate plan since 2015. They dont come around and check. certainly I could sell my EV and they wouldnt ask me to change rate plans or anything. (If you really want time of use plan... you could probably pull a vin from a dealer website too...) but time of use plans are mostly only beneficial if you are using lots of power that you can shift to the off-peak times by using a timer.
Already have TOU and all electricity-guzzling stuff is being ran off-peak.
19
Eric_Holder
2023 Dec 15, 11:52am
Eric_Holder
2023 Dec 15, 11:52am
socal2 says
Yet, the latest report on car reliability puts them well above both pure EVs and pure ICE cars. Go figure.
PumpingRedheads says
And they don't make sense. For every EV battery pack, 2 - 4 plug in hybrids could be built instead. Way more gasoline could be saved.
Hybrids are totally retarded.
Twice the complexity having both an ICE gas engine and battery drive train. So much more to go wrong and still have to dick around with changing oil, filters and dealing with complex transmission systems.......all which is absent from a pure EV.
Yet, the latest report on car reliability puts them well above both pure EVs and pure ICE cars. Go figure.
Comments 1 - 19 of 131 Next » Last » Search these comments
By Olivia Murray
In October, I wrote an essay on a “bombshell report” from a Texas think tank “which revealed that the actual cost of rechargeable cars and the E.V. industry is, in reality, much higher than they’re leading us to believe.”
The report is around 20-pages long, so I was only able to cover one of the explosive revelations—the average battery-powered car (E.V.) would cost “approximately $48,698 more to own over a 10-year period” were it not for the “staggering” handouts from the taxpayer via an extortionary and feckless government—but there were more.
Now, not only were the energy experts able to quantify the additional cost over time, but they were also able to put a dollar amount on the real cost of charging the vehicle, translated into price per gallon of gasoline. As you might guess, the price is astronomical, but that’s not the the end of it.
While EV advocates claim charging costs are equivalent to $1.21-per-gallon gasoline, the real amount is an order of magnitude more.
Including the charging equipment, subsidies from governments and utilities and other frequently excluded expenses, the true cost of charging an EV is equivalent to $17.33-per-gallon gasoline — but the EV owner pays less than 7% of that.
So if the E.V. owner pays less than 7% of that massively inflated cost to “fuel” a car, that means more than 93% of the financial burden falls on the taxpayer—as the NY Post authors also write:
This is socialism for the rich: a transfer of costs from higher net-worth individuals to middle- and lower-income taxpayers.
It’s the equivalent of levying taxes and fees on public-transportation users and those who walk or bicycle to work and using the money to reduce the price of gasoline.
At this stage, E.V.s, if forced to stand on their own, are an utter failure, and as I noted in my previous blog, bad ideas and inferior products only find security in a “free” market… rigorously controlled by big government fascists. If our market were truly free, an extremely expensive car that can spontaneously combust, only works in a limited temperature range, occasionally malfunctions and locks occupants inside before rolling backwards into bodies of water, and costs $17.33 per “gallon” to “fuel” up, would be dead on arrival—as it should be.