patrick.net

richwicks says

No. Boy, you think everything is pilot error. Birdstrike took out all the engines.

He had two options to land the plane on land. There was still a semi functioning engine as well. He fucked up. His fuck up worked out for the human life aspect. He fucked up an 8 figure airplane for no reason. He could have save the humans and the plane. He fucked up. His opinion is shit to me. He's not some hero. He's an idiot and bad pilot.

richwicks says

No. Boy, you think everything is pilot error. Birdstrike took out all the engines.

Boy ? what you are starting talk like the Florida panhandle vernacular too ?

Yes, about Sully having no margin as all engines were taken out and look at how far he was from the airport.

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AD says

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You can only do so much if your a great operator like a pilot with a badly designed and/or maintained system.

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That is why as industrial engineers we figure out how to make systems as fail safe as possible. Including use of redundancy, backups, safety interlocks, etc.

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WookieMan says

I'll listen when you have an FAA license.

I have one of those, a Commercial + Instrument. For small planes. I know enough to know what I don't know so I'm sure as hell not gonna blame everything on pilot error for something I don't know the first thing about.

Especially where a dishonest airplane vendor managed by Stock-Price-Driven-Financial types are involved.

Do you have an ATP and type rating for jets? Just asking.

AD says

Yes, about Sully having no margin as all engines were taken out and look at how far he was from the airport.

About 10 miles. Of course I don't know where the birdstrike happened. Nobody killed. I remember when this happened, he was instantly considered a hero.

B.A.C.A.H. says

I have one of those, a Commercial + Instrument. For small planes.

I am former Air Force but I have flown small single engine planes as well. Cessna 150, Cessna 150 Aerobat, Cessna 172, Piper 140, and Piper 180 Warrior. Long ago, when flying was cheap and private pilots were in the high wing Cessna or low wing Piper camps. What planes did you fly?

WookieMan says

He had two options to land the plane on land. There was still a semi functioning engine as well. He fucked up. His fuck up worked out for the human life aspect. He fucked up an 8 figure airplane for no reason. He could have save the humans and the plane. He fucked up.

I don't know, I'm not a pilot.

I don't think you are correct. When it's a choice of taking out a building and/or the passengers or sacrificing the plane, it's the plane that goes, insurance takes care of it. I recall the incident, and I don't remember anybody saying he made the wrong decision, but it was like 15 years ago and I quit television 15 years before that.

HeadSet says

What planes did you fly?

Most of my hours were in 172's. I also flew 150 and 182. Bellanca Citabria (a tail dragger), Gruman Tiger, Piper Cherokee (forgot the model #). I flew just enough in a Rockwell 114 to get the required RG time for the Commercial. That was freaking expensive flying time, even in the early 1980;s.

The last time I flew it was a 172 in August of 1984.

Not going to do it any more. In those days as a poor college (and high school) student I had nothing to lose. I don't need life insurance any more, but the damn freaking liability insurance would make the hobby too expensive for me. Homie don't piss away that kind of money for a few hours of flying time per month.I get just as much pleasure from gardening.

The only regret is that I never shot an instrument approach in IFR where with the conditions near minimums. Probably just as well as it's a stupid thing to do in a single engine. But I was young and stupid.

B.A.C.A.H. says

The only regret is that I never shot an instrument approach in IFR where with the conditions near minimums. Probably just as well as it's a stupid thing to do in a single engine.

Why is that "stupid?" An IFR equipped C172 was designed to do exactly that, and you never would have passed your Instrument Check unless you were able to safety demonstrate that. I presume back then you flew the instrument check under a hood, and on the final approach, the FAA check pilot only lifted your hood just before Missed Approach Point.

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Looks like the "suicide" did not have the effect it thought it was going to have as far as silencing future critics.

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B.A.C.A.H. says

Bellanca Citabria (a tail dragger)

That had to be fun! My first airplane ride when I was kid in Civil Air Patrol was in a 2-cylinder Aeronca fabric covered tail dragger. It had a stick and no flaps, one had to slip it in for a crosswind landing. I also built a radio control model of a Citabria that I inherited from a guy who could not finish it.

AD says

Looks like the "suicide" did not have the effect it thought it was going to have as far as silencing future critics.

Murder doesn't matter, this will pan out regardless. IF that one man WAS murdered for his testimony and to prevent further testimony, it doesn't do anything other than up the ante.

But you can up the ante for a LONG TIME apparently. I thought the Neocon Cabal of the US would blow up when the "WMD" story turned out to be false, but here they still are almost 25 years later. I don't think that can be done with something like technology.

Right now everything is anecdotal, and I expect the FAA is fucking completely compromised and asleep at the wheel, however, I don't think airlines are. When you run a business you can fuck around with DIE if you like, if you're big enough, but that will kill major companies in time, like Disney - they're dead. I expect Disney will recover, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see them break up. They are going to have to spin off something that is POSITIVELY family friendly and innocuous.

WookieMan says

Jesus christ, Sully fucked up bigly.

Our aviation expert knows more than Sullenberger and everyone else. I read Sullenberger's book (did you?).

In the book, this super-competent pilot explained how he made it a point to know the geography and "lay of the land" of the places he flew in and out of. This was beyond expectation of airline pilots. He already knew the river would be an option to put down an 80-ton glider with fuel if runways weren't an option. He even knew the locations of the bridges. He did not fuck up, but your remark is kind of a fuck-up.

HeadSet says

Why is that "stupid?" An IFR equipped C172 was designed to do exactly that, and you never would have passed your Instrument Check unless you were able to safety demonstrate that.

This is true.

Part of operating the small plane is having a constant awareness of where to put the plane down in case of an emergency. A fire could happen in a multi-engine, but the most commonly expected emergency that would create a need to put the plane down would be an engine failure. We are forever scanning the ground for options, - it's a part of VFR flying. Being in California there's some flying over mountain ranges, - what to do? Well, some spots will be "less worse" than others, - like a ridge line. (But if the mountain is completely forested not so many such options).

Twin engine planes can operate with an engine out. If we're flying in real instrument conditions, we cannot see the ground. We cannot see where to safely put the plane down in an emergency. If the conditions are near IFR minimums, not enough altitude to deal with a single-engine plane's engine failure. In a twin, not a problem with one engine failure.

(Thank goodness Sullenberger wasn't flying in the clouds, - but probably the geese would also not fly in the clouds for the same reason, that they cannot visually navigate).

The worst part for an engine failure is on departure (Sullenberge). Not enough altitude to turn back to land on the runway. This is why it's important to be familiar with the geography near the airport, to already have a plan where to put the plane down if necessary. I flew into many airports that were new and strange to me. A standard VFR procedure for uncontrolled fields is to fly directly over the center of the runway at a safe altitude above the pattern altitude, to look at the windsock AND be scouting the area around the runway for places to put the plane down if necessary. You can do this at controlled fields also.

Looking back, one of the stupid things I did in my youth was instrument departures in a single engine plane.

San Jose is in a valley that's covered with a low overcast of Coastal Fog most summer mornings. There's an IFR procedure called "IFR to VRF over the top". You get an IFR clearance to fly by instruments till you're over the fog, then the IFR flight plan is ended and you're flying VFR above the fog. From above the fog you can use the mountain tops, compass, etc to visually navigate till you have flown to the Central Valley where there's no such fog. It was legal then (1980's) (maybe still legal now?, - I've been out of it for a long time so I don't know). These IFR departures in a single-engine plane were legal, but reckless.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Looking back, one of the stupid things I did in my youth was instrument departures in a single engine plane.

True, twin engine gives redundancy, but when have you heard of and engine failure in flight? I know of slop where someone has run out of gas, but true engine failures are rare. As you know, those Lycoming and Continental engines are built to aviation standards and have dual ignition systems, etc. General aviation planes also go through 100 hour inspections and you run an engine check, including testing the mags, right before takeoff. We have a different opinion of flying IMC in a single engine IFR equipped plane.

>>B.A.C.A.H. says

There's an IFR procedure called "IFR to VRF over the top". You get an IFR clearance to fly by instruments till you're over the fog, then the IFR flight plan is ended and you're flying VFR above the fog.

I do not remember "VRF," but I do remember "VFR on Top" where one could cancel IFR once you flew out of IMC. Mountains around here top out below 6,000 ft so we would not be as familiar with something like VRF. Of course, it is much more fun to fly VMC so I would typically only fly when the weather is good.

HeadSet says

True, twin engine gives redundancy, but when have you heard of and engine failure in flight?

Agreed.

Flying a single engine in IFR with a low ceiling is the same kind of reckless as not wearing a seat belt while driving a car.
Get away with it nearly all the time.

HeadSet says

I do not remember "VRF,

It's a typo, bro.

B.A.C.A.H. says

HeadSet says

I do not remember "VRF,

It's a typo, bro.

Seems obvious now. I was thinking it was something I did not know about that happed to be on some California SIDs.

https://www.zerohedge.com/technology/airbus-beats-boeing-deliveries-2024

From the top comment: "What a shocker, customers don't like it when you kill them for profit.
Apparently it's not a sustainable business model."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/boeing-braces-turbulence-ahead-back-back-senate-hearings-crisis-confidence-worsens

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/spirit-aerosystems-whistleblower-dies-sudden-104147528.html

Second Boeing whistleblower dies in less than two months

Another whistleblower who publicly spoke out about safety issues with Boeing planes has died, less than two months after fellow whistleblower John Barnett died from a gunshot wound police have yet to finish investigating.

Joshua Dean, a former quality auditor at Boeing supplier Spirit AeroSystems and one of the first to allege wilful ignorance of manufacturing defects on the notorious 737 MAX, died after a “short and sudden illness”, the Seattle Times reports.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/second-boeing-whistleblower-dies-in-less-than-two-months/ar-AA1o0rED

Boeing Investigated Over Falsified Plane Records

The FAA is investigating Boeing for omitting mandatory inspections and for falsifying records. And this after Boeing informed the FAA about a "misconduct" at its factory in South Carolina building the 787 Dreamliner.

"The company voluntarily informed us in April that it may not have completed required inspections to confirm adequate bonding and grounding where the wings join the fuselage on certain 787 Dreamliner airplanes," the FAA said in a statement. According to the agency, "Boeing is reinspecting all 787 airplanes still within the production system and must also create a plan to address the in-service fleet."

Boeing continues to build airplanes with parts that do not meet specifications and this is a major safety issue. Are these planes safe to fly? Here Boeing is blaming their employees and lying to the FAA. The future does not look good for Boeing.

https://www.rt.com/news/597176-boeing-investigated-falsified-plane-records/

I love hit pieces that people eat up. The object that goes damn near the speed of sound 5,000 times a day is unsafe.... Has hard landings and turbulence. But, hey, it's just going to fall apart.

Understand marketing folks. Doesn't have to be all cocky. It can be negative towards a competitor. People can be in a bad place and bought off. True whistleblowers get the job done without anyone knowing their identity. There's dozens of things I could bring up against my former employer or clients. Guess what? No one would know it was me.

Just because an attention whore dissatisfied with their employer makes a claim, doesn't mean the planes aren't safe and/or they're telling the truth. Given Boeings size there should be hundreds if not thousands blowing the whistle if it was that bad. It's not. Disgruntled employees likely and they didn't get the attention and off'd themselves. We all know those types. It's a personality. Attention seekers. Lawsuit seekers. No one bought in, they're low on money and killed themselves.

WookieMan says

"I love hit pieces that people eat up. The object that goes damn near the speed of sound 5,000
times a day is unsafe.... Has hard landings and turbulence. But, hey, it's just going to fall apart."

Well, if you are paying attention they are falling apart. Look at China Eastern Airlines Flight 5735:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDDiB1dOGgs

Investigators found pieces from the plane seven miles away - that is the plane was disintegrating before the nosedive.

WookieMan says

Understand marketing folks. Doesn't have to be all cocky. It can be negative towards a competitor. People can be in a bad place and bought off. True whistleblowers get the job done without anyone knowing their identity. There's dozens of things I could bring up against my former employer or clients. Guess what? No one would know it was me.

Have you ever done it?

I have.

This guy better get a food taster, a brake inspector, and a squad of former Gurkhas

It's only a problem if you can't eliminate the whistle blowers faster than they crop up. Was Boeing incompetence supposed to be a puzzle piece in some Globalist false flag atrocity? Why mobilize the assassin militias this assiduously?

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Notice there is no diversity among the Boeing whistleblowers. They are all white men, and they appear to be at least 40 years of age.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/04/us-news/boeing-faces-10-more-whistleblowers-after-two-die/

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UkraineIsTotallyFucked says

For the record -- for what that is even worth -- I don't think that Boeing execs or mgmt offed the whistleblowers. I think Deep State fucks with interest in not seeing Boeing go down did. Remember, Boeing is big in Deep State defense and aerospace shit as well.

Or, they simply don't want investigators seriously digging into Boeing's biz. Yeah, that's more likely.

AD says

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Notice there is no diversity among the Boeing whistleblowers. They are all white men, and they appear to be at least 40 years of age.

https://nypost.com/2024/05/04/us-news/boeing-faces-10-more-whistleblowers-after-two-die/

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Could that just be an outcome of how the old guard are the only ones who know their shit enough these days to even be whistleblowers in the first place?

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-sales-tumble-company-gets-151533286.html

The_Deplorable says

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-sales-tumble-company-gets-151533286.html

Well, duh! I say. I mean, nobody needed to post this on the Predictions thread to see the coming.

I guess what we should bey on is when the bailout comes and for how much.

Hindu SW is dirt cheap but poor quality.
Americans are stupid to get their SW made by people who think “A monkey can fly without wings and also carry mountain” they don’t need air planes.

For Hindu:
🐒 > ✈️

There's an incident reported today (June 13) about a Southwest 737 MAX spontaneously going into a Dutch Roll.