patrick.net

I wouldn’t buy anything newer than about 2014 but prefer 2010 or older. And for me, nothing but Toyota or Lexus.

I paid, after selling a 2012 Impala with 190,000 miles on it, $8,600 for a 2013 Toyota Camry with 49,000 miles on it. I’ll make that deal all day long.

GNL says

I paid, after selling a 2012 Impala with 190,000 miles on it, $8,600 for a 2013 Toyota Camry with 49,000 miles on it. I’ll make that deal all day long.

$9k for a 2013 Camry with less than 50k is a great deal. You got at least another 50k miles on that thing before major issues. Probably 70k more

GNL says

I wouldn’t buy anything newer than about 2014 but prefer 2010 or older.

I drive a 2008. I don't rack up a lot of miles, so hope to go another decade. I think there were a lot of improvements in most cars through the 80s and 90s, but after that it's all been needless electric stuff that with break and render the vehicle unusable.

AmericanKulak says

GNL says

I paid, after selling a 2012 Impala with 190,000 miles on it, $8,600 for a 2013 Toyota Camry with 49,000 miles on it. I’ll make that deal all day long.

$9k for a 2013 Camry with less than 50k is a great deal. You got at least another 50k miles on that thing before major issues. Probably 70k more

I'll get 300,000 miles out of this car without any major transmission or engine problems. Starters, alternators, struts etc., yes.

SunnyvaleCA says

GNL says

I wouldn’t buy anything newer than about 2014 but prefer 2010 or older.

I drive a 2008. I don't rack up a lot of miles, so hope to go another decade. I think there were a lot of improvements in most cars through the 80s and 90s, but after that it's all been needless electric stuff that with break and render the vehicle unusable.

80s American cars are pretty much crap. But yes, a lot of needless crap on new/ish cars. I don't want anything fancy. Power windows, locks, steering, antilock brakes a radio and a/c and a quality V6 and trans combo is all I need.

My first USA car was a 1964 Volvo I bought in 1974 for around $200. It was great.
Years later I had a 1971 Chevy Nova I paid $700 for, I think it was in 1986 or so.
Next was a 1977 Toyota pickup for $1500. I drove that until about 1994. (I got stiffed by the Mexican "friend" I sold it to for $300')
Then I had a 1986 ? Toyota pickup for about $3500. A reckless driver in Seaside CA crashed into it head-on in 2008.
Then I bought a 1998 Toyota Tacoma pickup for $6500. This is still driving around Santa Cruz, CA. I sold it for $1500 a few years ago.
See that I have spent very little on cars and trucks, but I have gotten around just fine.
I will say that the 71 Nova was not very impressive for the females, nor was the 77 Toyota pickup.

The 98 Toyota pickup was easily the worst vehicle ever parked at the Pacific Union Club in San Francisco when I stayed there as a guest of a member.
All of the other vehicles were Mercedes or BMW.

Today I have an inherited 2013 Volvo S60 T5 which was assembled in Belgium, and is like a tank but goes like a missile if you step on it.
It's fun to drive anywhere.
If the engine ever blows up, I'll spend the dough and have a new engine put in it; that will probably cost $4000 or so.

Edit: I added up my car buying. Total=$12,400 since 1974. In 2017 I inherited the Volvo=43 years. Average car buying over time=$288/year.
What did I do with money I didn't spend on cars? Stock mutual funds and the rest I just blew.

Clambo, nicely done. People spend a lot of $$ on vehicles.

GNL, thank you. My lousy economic situation at first required cheap cars, later trucks were used for working so I didn't care either.
My next vehicle may actually be a new truck for use in Baja Sur, Mexico. They have a Hilux and someday a Hilux Champ which is now just in Thailand ($13,000).
Used are OK if recent year and low miles.

Disclosure: I didn't know about buying cars at all growing up. My father bought a used car for cash, later he bought cars new for cash.
My friend's father in the summer bought two Toyota Corollas for cash; one he left in Woods Hole, the other was for around Martha's Vineyard.
My college girlfriend's mother bought her a new car with cash to use for college. "You can have the cheapest car on the lot." She bought a Toyota Corolla.

I didn't know people actually financed cars until I was already pretty advanced in age.

clambo says

If the engine ever blows up, I'll spend the dough and have a new engine put in it; that will probably cost $4000 or so.

You won't be able to rebuild that engine for less than $5K. At least $11K to install a new one. A LOT more in California. Volvo's are great cars but not cheap to repair.

Maybe, time will tell and maybe I will not need an engine.
My friend had a Volvo he drove for 750,000 miles. I imagine he did change the engine once.
Incidentally, Florida has very reasonable prices for car repairs, although the engine will not be cheap.

clambo says

I didn't know people actually financed cars until I was already pretty advanced in age.

Unless you are a kid just starting out, no one should need to finance a car. If you need financing, you are buying something you cannot afford, especially if it is a 5+ year loan.

HeadSet says

clambo says

I didn't know people actually financed cars until I was already pretty advanced in age.

Unless you are a kid just starting out, no one should need to finance a car. If you need financing, you are buying something you cannot afford, especially if it is a 5+ year loan.

Eh. I can make more with my cash investing instead of a car. So I finance the car and invest cash and generally get double the interest rate on the loan. Sometimes tax free.

Never pay anything in cash. It's gone once the transaction is done. Credit/loans, you don't have to pay it back. It's a business decision but also insurance on your end. Cash it's just over. You won't get it back. Being knee deep in shit during the housing crash, I'd suggest listening to me. "Cash is king" came from people that want to take it from you. Cars, toothbrushes, condoms, horses, seat covers, etc. buy it on credit and pay it off. OR don't pay it off.

I slap myself any time I see or hear someone paying for shit with cash. You won't get it until you figure it out. Cash is trash. It's only good in a business ownership setting where you need to launder it. As a consumer cash is the worst possible way to transact on your end.

Not if you want some things to remain anonymous.

WookieMan says

Eh. I can make more with my cash investing instead of a car. So I finance the car and invest cash and generally get double the interest rate on the loan. Sometimes tax free.

Around here, a credit union gives a car loan at 5.5% for a 3 year term. Please let us know how you can get 11% on cash, sometimes tax free. Please do not come back with "1% dealer financing" or such, since low dealer rates are tacked on to the price of the car.

HeadSet says

WookieMan says

Eh. I can make more with my cash investing instead of a car. So I finance the car and invest cash and generally get double the interest rate on the loan. Sometimes tax free.

Around here, a credit union gives a car loan at 5.5% for a 3 year term. Please let us know how you can get 11% on cash, sometimes tax free. Please do not come back with "1% dealer financing" or such, since low dealer rates are tacked on to the price of the car.

Appreciation and dividend reinvestment. I'm not tying liquid cash up in a car. No wealthy person does if they're smart. If you have fuck you money that's different, but if you bring in $200k+/yr you don't pay cash for cars. You keep investing. Buying a depreciating asset cash is stupid. Cars are literally the worst thing to buy cash.

WookieMan says

I slap myself any time I see or hear someone paying for shit with cash. You won't get it until you figure it out. Cash is trash. It's only good in a business ownership setting where you need to launder it. As a consumer cash is the worst possible way to transact on your end.

So, you're all for CBDC? SERIOUSLY?!?

Would you like to super size the fried crickets with your Bug Mac?

WookieMan says

Around here, a credit union gives a car loan at 5.5% for a 3 year term. Please let us know how you can get 11% on cash, sometimes tax free. Please do not come back with "1% dealer financing" or such, since low dealer rates are tacked on to the price of the car.

Appreciation and dividend reinvestment.

In other words, "buy stocks."

>
>WookieMan says

Buying a depreciating asset cash is stupid.

The asset depreciates whether you paid cash or financed it. The issue is whether the loan costs exceed the return made from non-speculative investments.

WookieMan says

I'm not tying liquid cash up in a car.

Rich people finance cars.

Learn something new on Patnet everyday.

Financing lowers your 'out the door' price as they assume they'll make a lot of money off of the financing. Just go ahead and finance and read the contract to make sure any pre-payment penalty is low, say around $250 or something then pay it off right away.

Or do the, "I can make more money in the stock market/cds vs. the interest payment", like my uncle did 20 years ago when it was easy to get 5% and the loan interest rate was below that.

Does not seem like that is easy as it once was lately with auto loan rates so high.

The Used Car Market is a lot like the Housing Market now.

With Used Cars and Used Houses, you pay the absolute full interest rate.

But Manufacturers for Cars and Houses are offering lower rates, and often very low for the first year or so.

So when you calculate, often it's a far better deal to get the NEW, no previous owner, House or Car taking the shitty interest rates into account.

I saw a decent 2019 Jeep with 40k miles at $20k and compared it to a brandnew Subaru Crosstrek at $32, the difference is the former was 13% interest (with 700+ Credit) and the latter was 5% interest for the first 36 months (offered to anybody with decent 660+ credit)

You end up paying thousands more in interest on the Used Car than the new.

Yeah, and before rates took off like that due to the 'supply shortage', used car prices were basically equivalent to new car prices. The wholesale market for used cars has started tanking now though - I didn't know about that arbitrage interest rate you posted.

A LOT of inventories are back up to 2019 levels save hot brands like Toyota and Lexus. Some have over a year of inventory supply and are getting killed on floor plan costs.

I predict later this year will be good prices for car buying. Apparently prices haven't dropped significantly yet because dealerships always expect hot sales at this time of the year due to tax returns..

https://caredge.com/ has a you toob channel that is pretty good covering this stuff.

Mitsubishi is really pimping some decent deals (relative to the past few years) on their Outback and other Models. Both lease and new financing -

But not what they have in the trade-in/used lot!

just_passing_through says

https://caredge.com/ has a you toob channel that is pretty good covering this stuff.

Thanks, will check it out.

Edit: Ha, that $32k for the Crosstek could be a few thousands lower. Thanks @just_passing_through

I just clicked on it and the two guys up top of the page run the channel. They're a father son package and a bit of a hoot.

Also, they fully admit that prices are still insane and it's still not a good time to buy a vehicle. Son owns the company and uses click-bait titles for their channel and dad always gives him shit for in when the show starts...

His dad sold cars for 40 years or something like that and gives great insight into current events.

The inventory data they show on their channel is unreal. Dealers are sitting on a ton of stuff and it's just getting worse for them. I'd (I am) wait.

Onvacation says

WookieMan says

I'm not tying liquid cash up in a car.

Rich people finance cars.

Learn something new on Patnet everyday.

They sure do. If you don't want to pay it let them repo it from you. There's no point in tying up cash into cars. Their cash earns them money via investment. If you have shit credit, fine pay cash, but you're likely poor in that situation. I'll never buy a car with all cash ever. I'm also not into cars. So I'm not buying some vintage car where you probably need to buy it with cash.

What do you think real estate investors are doing?? They leverage and keep cash on hand for the next deal. Why would anyone tie up cash into a car if you're only using it to get from point A to B? And guess what? You don't have pay it if you don't want.

I'm not talking out my ass on this one. My uncle has 8 figure wealth. Owns all my cousins houses. Has tons of real estate in AZ and IL. Probably elsewhere since I last talked to him. He finances his cars because of top notch credit. He's still paying for the car but gets 0% interest. What's the point of giving a dealership the cash? Give it to them over time (well the bank). No one is addressing that 800lbs gorilla in the room.

I'll take payments and having liquid cash 10 out of 10 times. Keep some in a safe. My uncle keeps $400k at his home that he told me of. I'm sure my cousins have a bunch as well. Hence why 2 of the 3 cousins live in gated communities. 3 gates to even get to my uncles house. And no this isn't bragging. Not close at all with my uncle. We do talk once every 2-3 years though. He's pretty honest about finances. You really can't lie when you see what he has and who his neighbors are...

I got the best deal in my life in 2008 when the Housing Bubble was crashing - a Subaru Forester for 17K out the door, at 0% for 4 years. In fact, all the new cars I have bought were 0%, had 3-year bumper to bumper warranties and 3 years free service. Meanwhile, 2 year-old Subarus were listing for $2K less than brand new and had no warranty nor free 3-year service.

As we get older, it's getting a lot harder to pull engines and transmissions, change out suspensions, etc. Having done most of this, I know what to look for, and let me tell you, the quality of mechanics has plummeted. I only trust the mom and pops now. Corporate is incredibly incompetent and corrupt.

I have a 2017 Subaru Outback. One year after I bought it, the windshield cracked almost completely across. I took it to the dealer (remember, it was still under bumper to bumper 3 year warranty). They denied the claim. I called up corporate after finding out that there had been a successful class action suit in California where it was proved that Subaru was making windshields too thin. I told SOA about my dealer experience, and said "How many class-action suits will it take before Subaru does the right thing?" The next morning, the dealership that fucked me off called, asking "When can you come in to have your windshield replaced?" Free loaner car, kissing my Paddy ass, all the trimmings.

Just remember boys, you're the prize when it comes to spending money.

WookieMan says

Why would anyone tie up cash into a car if you're only using it to get from point A to B?

Agreed. I never financed a new car. One of the first running cars I bought was an orange 1972 Mazda RX-2 that had bad tires, suspension, and really needed a tune-up for $400, ($1,000 today) cash. New tires, suspension and tune up This little car was so fun. It could spin tires in first and second and get a "chirp" in third.




I drove that thing until it got killed in the floods of 1986 at which point I bought a new car to fix up a 1979 RX-7 for $1700 cash


Fun fast and handled. I put a lot of miles and a new engine in that car before an ex stole it from me.
Always had a truck of some kind. When you buy clunkers you make repair payments not car payments. As a mechanic (once, always) I can either fix it myself or hand it off to a shop I trust. Currently own 5th Mazda a '99 Miata for fun and an old Honda Odyssey for truck duty. If either gets totaled or stolen tomorrow, I'll look on Craigslist and find another clunker to restore.

Oh man! I wanted one of those but ended up with this instead:



Unlike the earlier z's the zx wasn't very fast. It was bloated. But it did have this slick digital dash:



In particular when you got below 1/4 of a tank that yellow gauge measured the last bits which as a poor college student was often all I had!