patrick.net

WookieMan says

I just think the Dead are basic and shitty musicians instrumentally.

Very wrong, sir. Bob Weir ranked as one of the best rhythm guitarists. Number 14 with a bullet.

https://www.guitarworld.com/features/best-rhythm-guitarists/4

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

You sound like a disappointed, dare I say jaded, former idealist, IMHO.

That would be correct. The whole Laurel Canyon thing were elite kids fronted by Intel. The original part of the 'plan' was to subvert American society and turn youth into heedless, daft hedonists. I love a lot of the music from the era, too, but I don't blinker it's sources and origins. I think the artistry was an unintended consequence. The music from that era is still the favored media at the health clubs. David Crosby went to elite private school in Santa Barbara, Steven Stills from military elite.

Phil Lesh was CIA promoted to manufacture and distribute LSD, which wasn't a spontaneous drug, came from MKUltra research. Lesh was protected, never prosecuted.

David Smith MD and his brother were also CIA subsidized. Smith ran the Haight Ashbury free clinic, likely to monitor the effects of infusing drugs into the population.

The Black Panthers were ultimately defeated by glowies in their ranks giving them all the cocaine and heroin they wanted. Huey Newton died on the streets of Oakland with a crack pipe in his hand.

Timothy Leary was Intel subsidized.

The original Mockingbird government movie apparatus was in Laurel Canyon, and the actor Jared Leto bought the whole thing as his residence since Mockingbird just took over all of Hollywood, anyway.

As it is turning out, even Charlie Manson was Intel subsidized. A lot of his 'harem' were children of elites, and where did a garbage diving psychopath get all the money to afford Spahn Ranch? He was a hippy Hugh Hefner with honey trapping for the Hollywood crowd. It's been investigated that even the Sharon Tate murders were a movie and that Sharon Tate lived out her life as an added 'sister' in the Tate family, who were military intelligence. All the weirdness seems to point back to the puppet masters.

It goes on and on. I still like the music, though, just not all of it.

One of the reasons the surviving old rockers are politically cynical is because they saw all the moving gears a long time before the internet made them available to a broader public.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

You are wrong, again, sir.

Number 13 with a bullet. Even ranked higher than Johnny Winter and Jeff Beck! Frankly, I never encountered any credible person who though otherwise. Folk, blues, rock, R&B, bluegrass - the guy was an incredible talent.

I'm not. You're picking sources that just pick names out of a hat that are popular so the site/magazine can get ad revenue. It's basic business and has nothing to do with talent. They pick these guys to create controversy.

I've met Bob Weir. He's a druggie/alcoholic. There are substantially better modern day guitarist, bassist, drummers, etc. The dead was a fad. Just call it what it is. I'll never play my music here. Call it biased, but it's better than the Dead. Certain artist make it for certain reasons. Rarely is it talent. Almost always connections via family or friends.

While I'm not saying they're "bad", there are 1,000's of guitarists that could play the exact same thing and probably more for the Dead. Drum wise they always sucked. They wrote basic, catchy tunes that were fun while high. That's really indisputable.

WookieMan says

I'm not

You are still wrong, sir.

Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann ranked 34th with a bullet. Buddy Rich #15. Charlie Watts #12. Yes, Bonham is #1, Moon #2.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-drummers-of-all-time-77933/ginger-baker-145671/

WookieMan says

The dead was a fad.

Utterly Hilarious. Their 60th anniversary is coming up.

"So, when Dead & Co wrapped up that run Saturday night after two months, why did it seem like they had come to own the place? And how soon, everyone wanted to know, could they come back? What a short, stunning trip it’d been… albeit one that will likely have a long tail — for the band, for the venue and for the further understanding of what live entertainment can be.

The 30 shows operated at near-capacity from the May 16 opening night to the Aug. 10 closing, but let’s face it: Dead & Company cheated, by inviting repeat business. Please read into that statement all of the irony intended, because no asterisk need be put on a box-office triumph just because not every visit was a unique visit. Even if you came into the “Dead Forever” experience as a nominal fan and not a hardcore Deadhead, chances are, you didn’t feel completely sated seeing just one of these nearly four-hour shows.”
https://variety.com/2024/music/news/dead-company-close-sphere-residency-return-1236104350/

Ceffer says

That would be correct. The whole Laurel Canyon thing were elite kids fronted by Intel.

Sorry, bro, but I am doxing you. Besides singing harmony, what exactly did you play in the group?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNg7arOQoVA

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Utterly Hilarious. Their 60th anniversary is coming up.

Taylor Swift has a massive following. She can't actually sing live. The dead was a 70's fad that got a fan base no different than Swift now. They'll always go to shows because it makes them feel cool. "I've been to X number of shows, how many have you?" That's been the music industry for decades. It doesn't mean they're actual good musicians, especially live.

It's in a studio, but it's live: https://youtu.be/m38USaYRSp8?si=DDa0Z7UMAYBbdNPv

Show me one clip of the dead that can even compete musician wise. Tightness. Talent. The Dead and Dead & Co are overrated. Actual musicians, and I know hundreds that are extremely talented all think the Dead is trash. Smoke a joint and mellow out I guess, but they're not good musicians.

WookieMan says

but they're not good musicians.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

WookieMan says

but they're not good musicians.

So you buy the movie critics to watch your movies? Did they make movies? Direct movies? Produce movies? Act in movies? Nope. That's what those publications are. Monday morning quarterbacks that never played a down in their life. I've played music and toured. I'm wrong though.

Yet to meet a musician that respects the Dead. It's a hippy drug culture thing. Allman Brothers I can dig, the Dead are at best basic/average musicians instrument wise.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Sorry, bro, but I am doxing you. Besides singing harmony, what exactly did you play in the group?

Caught me. However, I deny everything. I inherited Yoko Ono's infamous tambourine and cowbells, which is about the limits of the musical performance talent. Fortunately, I didn't inherit the voice.

WookieMan says

Yet to meet a musician that respects the Dead.

The Elvis Costello-Jerry Garcia connection: How the new wave icon learned to love the Grateful Dead
But Costello has always found inspiration and fulfillment in quality musicianship—no matter the genre—and as he revealed in that issue’s cover story, the music of the Dead was a long-time passion for him…
https://sfstandard.com/2022/09/20/the-elvis-costello-jerry-garcia-connection-how-the-new-wave-icon-learned-to-love-the-grateful-dead/

When Eric Clapton gave his opinion about Jerry Garcia and Grateful Dead
What do you think of the guitar playing? Jerry Garcia’s synthesis of blues, jazz and country and western, with a little jug band thrown in?
“It’s very good, and very tight, but it’s not really my bag.”
https://rockandrollgarage.com/when-eric-clapton-gave-his-opinion-about-jerry-garcia-and-grateful-dead/

David Crosby Remembers Jerry Garcia: ‘He Did Not Play for Money — He Was Chasing the Notes’
In an adoring and emotional interview, Crosby recalls his friend's support, collaborative sprit and thirst to always be playing: "Holy s---, what a f---ing musician.”
And the minute he and I started to play anything, it got good, right away, immediately — which is not possible, all the time. But every single time that I sat down with him to play anything, it got magical. And you can’t ignore a thing like that, if it happens right in front of you over and over again. ..
https://variety.com/2020/music/news/david-crosby-remembers-jerry-garcia-grateful-dead-anniversary-1234729939/

When are we getting into the Alien vs. Predator arguments? Maybe that's too current.

Ceffer says

When are we getting into the Alien vs. Predator arguments? Maybe that's too current.

Only one way to resolve it. Dance Off!

The Dead is Dead to me. Jerry Garcia was the heart and attraction of the band. To say he wasn't talented, is like me saying Paris Hilton is not talented and sucks. That still doesn't negate the hundreds of millions of people in the world, that says she's the greatest pop star of all time.

Besides Jerry's playing ability, he had an old timey vibe to him. His and Robert Hunter's writing style harkened back to the Victorian days, or the post Civil War era. The root of the Bohemian culture, which predated the beatnik, and the Hippies.

I think you guys are missing the point. It's talent with the instruments and then also the group as a whole. It meanders into nothing. It's repetitive. All the songs are the same. If there wasn't a pause between tracks I wouldn't know it's a different song.

We'd cover multiple Dead songs when we played live. Why? They were easy as fuck to play. We'd listen to it once, practice it twice and we could play it. Not a chance in hell the Dead could play the video I linked above. Not a chance I could play it. That's my point. They're not good at their instruments. I'm surprised this is even a discussion.

They also were not a tight band rhythmically. Bad transitions. Out of tune a lot of times. Poor vocals. Sure that was their "sound" but it was't good. As basic as the Beatles were, they were at least tight and had good vocals. The Dead were basic, out of tune vocals, not in synch as a group, hence why everyone needed to be fucked up on drugs to listen to it. I've listened to hundreds of live Dead shows learning songs and just being interested. It's not good music live. Which means they can't play unless it's repetitive tracks in a studio to get it right.

Dead were 'CIA elite' employees with Lesh into the manufacture and distribution of LSD with government blessing. It means they were subsidized as means of spying on the counter culture and feeding drugs into the youth segment as a vast MKUltra experiment in political targeting.

So, whatever they did musically was by happenstance or accident. It was the power of promotion over substance. The same Mockingbird press outlets of the same Intel ilk could deify them to the skies to float the schemes. A lot of Garcia's bluegrass noodling didn't seem particularly interesting. The cult of personality was inexplicable.

WookieMan says

I think you guys are missing the point.

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Ceffer says

Dead were 'CIA elite' employees with Lesh into the manufacture and distribution of LSD with government blessing. It means they were subsidized as means of spying on the counter culture and feeding drugs into the youth segment as a vast MKUltra experiment in political targeting.

Wouldn't surprise me. Met two of the members at the Bonaroo Festival in TN when I was 22ish. Those guys were hammered. I forget which ones. They were just walking around the camping area. One of them just goes and grabs a nitrous balloon from someone. One was on shrooms and the other acid.

It's not just druggie culture, they partake in it heavily from what I witnessed. It's why their playing style is not tight and in lockstep with each other. They're wasted.

I liken it to the Sturgis annual bike rally. It's a bunch of drunks revving motorcycles with fat blobs of women so they can fuck their belly rolls, except with the Dead it's drugs, hairy bush and armpit hippies. Neither group of people are pleasant to be around. And the attraction of these events in my world is gay with Dead or motorcycles. Bunch of drunk and high people looking to get laid by a whore that looks 20 years older than they are.

WookieMan says

We'd cover multiple Dead songs when we played live. Why? They were easy as fuck to play. We'd listen to it once, practice it twice and we could play it.

WookieMan says

Which means they can't play unless it's repetitive tracks in a studio to get it right.

So basically you had a limited exposure to them, and you only could play the simple two chord ditties like Franklin's Tower, and Fire on the Mountain. Songs so simple to remember the chords to. Like many GD cover bands, they just noodle over someone playing the two simple chord songs, and they think they are a Dead Cover band. Yeah they sort of are doing it, and are playing in the spirit of GD. But they are a long ways off.
Just because you couldn't play the more complex harder stuff, doesn't mean Jerry Garcia and the band he played with sucked. You shouldn't play music you don't appreciate. Which is why I don't play top 40 and classic rock covers.
And some guitarists aren't trying to play anything and everything. They are playing the music they appreciate. But to suggest Jerry Garcia had a limited palette, he was broader than any guitarist of his contemporary.

Grateful Dead's Bob Weir to be honored at Bonnaroo

Before Dead & Company closes out Bonnaroo with two sets on Sunday night, there will be a special presentation for one of its members.

Music industry icon Bob Weir — founding member of the Grateful Dead — will be the first honoree to receive the Les Paul Spirit Award.

Beginning this year, the award will be presented annually to an individual who exemplifies the spirit of the Paul through innovation, engineering, technology and music.

Weir, who sang alongside Jerry Garcia, wrote a number of iconic songs, including “The Other One,” “Sugar Magnolia,” “Playing in the Band” and “Throwing Stones.” The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inducted the band in 1994. The Dead received Grammy's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2007.

In 2015, Weir, along with former Grateful Dead members Mickey Hart and Bill Kreutzmann, joined forces with Grammy-winning singer and guitarist John Mayer to form Dead & Company. Allman Brothers bassist Oteil Burbridge and Fare Thee Well and RatDog keyboardist Jeff Chimenti are also part of the newly formed band.

Dead & Company began its inaugural nationwide tour last fall, kicking off with two sold-out shows at Madison Square Garden. It has now played more than nine sellouts.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/entertainment/2016/06/07/grateful-deads-bob-weir-honored-bonnaroo/85566228/

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Music industry icon Bob Weir — founding member of the Grateful Dead — will be the first honoree to receive the Les Paul Spirit Award.

The first honoree to receive a Les Paul Spirit Award? He didn't play a Les Paul, at least not in the most part of his career, and never during the time Jerry was still alive. This honor should have been given to Slash or Lenny Kravits, which are to two biggest iconic rockers still alive today associated with Les Paul.

Tenpoundbass says

You shouldn't play music you don't appreciate.

I play drums. But I can noodle around enough on bass and guitar to play the Dead. Anyone can in two weeks that doesn't even play guitar. Their "jams" are mindless put to sleep music. No creativity. They play sloppy. I know you play 10#, but this is fact.

People can like it all they want. I'm talking actual musicianship. Being a master of your instrument. No one in the dead is. I'll give them above average song writing pop jam druggie music, I guess? But they're simply not good musicians. There are plenty of HOF bands and groups that sucked but had a good melody and lyrics. Doesn't mean they're good at their instruments. Def Leopards drummer is better than the Dead's drummer.

I get we're not all going to agree. Most big musician made it because they had connections. Female ones sucked cock. Doesn't mean they're good because they knew someone with the money, marketing prowess, producers, record labels.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

Music industry icon Bob Weir — founding member of the Grateful Dead — will be the first honoree to receive the Les Paul Spirit Award.

I don't care if he played that brand at all. It's a marketing gimmick for Les Paul guitars. No different than the Danny Carey Vic Firth drumstick video of Tools Pneuma https://youtu.be/FssULNGSZIA?si=QfBdxE9X5IlGP4vD Danny can play though. The Dead can't. Talent is talent. It's easily identifiable. The Dead ain't that. Talented marketers, I'll give them that.

OK, so we have numerous organizations and musicians who acknowledge the Grateful Dead’s skill and some guy in Illinois who doesn’t.

Uh, yeah, OK.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so we have numerous organizations and musicians who acknowledge the Grateful Dead’s skill and some guy in Illinois who doesn’t.

Uh, yeah, OK.

Not gonna say my friends are bad musicians. Some are widely known, but I have no interest in doxxing myself. Just calling a spade a spade. I'm not just some guy from IL. 3 albums under my belt and opened for bands as big as the Dead and hung out with similar.

This isn't internet bravado. I know what I'm talking about. The Dead are overrated and I think you know this. At the end of the day opinions don't matter if you don't play. It's just what you like. Majority of people don't like the Dead. I don't like Taylor Swift. Neither are good at their instruments or vocally without help. That's not an opinion. That's fact.

Here's a perfect example of the Dead. Literally nothing https://youtu.be/kuSJ0djewQU?si=X8kQxtkq6VYTLbqh Everyone is welcome for me putting them to sleep with that link. 15 year olds could play that in their sleep. Every instrument. Sorry I'm beating this horse dead, but publications putting the Grateful Dead name to their name gets hits and revenue. It doesn't mean anything. Just watch it. Out of tune, pitch, timing and the most basic musicians to ever be famous.

WookieMan says

Here's a perfect example of the Dead. Literally nothing https://youtu.be/kuSJ0djewQU?si=X8kQxtkq6VYTLbqh Everyone is welcome for me putting them to sleep with that link. 15 year olds could play that in their sleep. Every instrument. Sorry I'm beating this horse dead, but publications putting the Grateful Dead name to their name gets hits and revenue. It doesn't mean anything. Just watch it. Out of tune, pitch, timing and the most basic musicians to ever be famous.

Well, that does sound like typical Dead. The Deadhead shrink in my audio club said they grooved on Coltrane vibes etc. but they sound like they are constantly going in and out of tune with each other and are bored. The constant improv doesn't seem to help. More music logorrhea content didn't seem to help, either. Maybe they tune up about five or ten percent of the time. Gerry's singing speaks for itself. I guess it is the eye of the beholder, or the toker, or the dropper. I'm confused.

OK, so we have numerous organizations and musicians who acknowledge the Grateful Dead’s skill and some guy in Illinois who doesn’t.

Um, yeah, OK.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so we have numerous organizations and musicians who acknowledge the Grateful Dead’s skill and some guy in Illinois who doesn’t.

Do you play any instrument? Ever play live or record an album? Did you listen to Fauci with regards to Covid? Do movie critics write movies? You are mentioning publications that are promoting brands and/or just listen to music all day with no clue how to play an instrument. Claiming to be an expert to keep a job is not an expert. They take big names and create controversies to sell. Like Jordan and Lebron in basketball. "Who's the GOAT" bullshit.

There were significantly better bands at the time and even now. The Dead wouldn't even crack my top 100 all time bands/artists. They had a cult following. Doesn't mean they were good. It's okay to like them, not everyone understands playing music though.

It's the same 10 minute song over and over and over. Only band I legit have fallen asleep to at live shows. Not inebriated either. It's boring 16 year old level guitarists, bad drums, bass is okay, but that's the easiest instrument, so low bar. Keys I don't know well enough, but they seem average. Nothing special. Off pitch vocals. And clearly intoxicated playing live which you don't do. But I guess when the crowd is high as fuck you can play like shit and the exact same sound every single song. If that's the level of a good band than I guess the 500+ bands that are better suck as well?

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

musicians

I am one 🙄. 3 albums and 200+ shows. I have no clue what I'm talking about.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

OK, so we have numerous organizations (propaganda) and musicians (me) who acknowledge the Grateful Dead’s skill and some guy in Illinois who knows what he's talking about.

Ceffer says

Well, that does sound like typical Dead.

Certainly not everyone’s cup of tea, but to state repeatedly that your preference is absolute fact (not naming names), in spite of significant opinion to the contrary is a bit infantile, IMHO. Or at best, perhaps, trolling.

I think it's time for the Alien vs. Predator trash talking.

I have quite a few Dead vinyl records, and except for few songs that I like, they always leave me scratching my head like 'What was that all about?' Call if taste, preference or whatever. I'm not going to say they are great based on imposed religious thinking of the hippy dippy days.

I think the Dead were one of the most successful Mockingbird created and anointed entities of the era. They were subsidized for an end, whatever, to infuse drug culture into the yutes. Gerry was an old junkie who died in a Marin rehab where he went periodically to try and kick.

My Dead following shrink acquaintance would go to Mexico every year for a couple of weeks to spend time with shamans and engage in drug rituals. He invited me to go with him one year but I declined. I don't need more squash blight than I already have. I always told him I didn't think the Dead were all that, either, and he was fine with it.

I have quite a collection of their music - Dick’s Picks, studio albums, live albums, and even bootlegs. I still enjoy listening to the music. Great lyrics by Robert Hunter.

But beyond the music, the parking lot scene was quite amazing. All sots of vendors of legal and illegal products, bus people, folks from across the country going from concert to concert. Nothing like it.

Once in a while
You get shown the light
In the strangest of places
If you look at it right

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

But beyond the music, the parking lot scene was quite amazing. All sots of vendors of legal and illegal products, bus people, folks from across the country going from concert to concert. Nothing like it.

That's literally all the band was. It was a drugged out party. I've been to Dead and Co. shows sober. It was bad.

I'm not trolling, I've seen most the band live and know what good playing is. I've played with musicians that I 100% know are better at their craft than the Dead and can play better together.

It was a scene. A drug spectacle. I'm literally a jam band guy. I did my fair share of festivals including playing at them. 90% of people that went to see the Dead were on shrooms, LSD or stoned out of their mind. Including the band. They have a few catchy tunes, otherwise it's a sleep fest. None of it was good playing of instruments.

Taylor Swift has catchy tunes, but 80% of her live shows are auto tuned or lip synched. That's not a good musician or vocalist.

Also the Dead encouraged bootleg recordings. It was an easy way to get the music out. It's part of the jam band culture. Smart self marketing, but it doesn't mean the musicians are talented. It's free music and drugs. They were the front runners on that scene, hence the popularity. Discount anything I just said if you want, but it's not wrong. I'm not trolling.

LOL! I think we have the immovable Dead Force against the immovable Dead Object.

"I've been to Dead and Co. shows sober. It was bad." I can't tell you how many times I have heard that over the years.

Ceffer says

LOL! I think we have the immovable Dead Force against the immovable Dead Object.

Ha. ha. I have Wookie on ignore, if that is what you are refering to, so knock yourself out.

BTW, I have a sneaking suspicion he is a woman posting as a man.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

BTW, I have a sneaking suspicion he is a woman posting as a man.

Great, so now we have to add "transposter" to the alphabet soup.

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

BTW, I have a sneaking suspicion he is a woman posting as a man.

Lol. The Dead suck and you're butt hurt. I'll ask again, what instrument do you play? Put up or shut up. I could mark this personal but I'm not a pussy. What instrument do you play? How long? How many recordings? I'll wait.

HeadSet says

Great, so now we have to add "transposter" to the alphabet soup.

Transtrollster?

Al_Sharpton_for_President says

HeadSet says

Great, so now we have to add "transposter" to the alphabet soup.

Transtrollster?

Totally trolling and I'm a lesbian woman with a dick. Or I actually have played music and KNOW better musicians than anyone in Grateful Dead. I'm not going to dox myself. But I could give you probably 20 local musicians near me that are better than anyone in the Dead that I've played with.

You can like the Dead. I'm stating they're not good musicians. Publications are generally not musicians. They're critics. Putting Grateful Dead in your publication gets readers and ad revenue because of the druggie scene. That's just fact. Rarely do other musicians put another famous band down. They just say general pleasantries when asked a question they don't even want to have to answer. Another fact.

I've played plenty of shows and told other bands they rocked it even though they sucked. A friend from the past is a country guy. He sucks. But I'll give his shit a like online in support because I know him. That's what musicians are doing with the Dead. I'm out of the game. Losing potential fans if you're still playing is stupid, so nothing negative is said. The Dead were and are the Joe Biden of Jam bands.