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1
clambo
2024 Oct 11, 8:28am
One reason it would be difficult to have $5 million in a retirement account is without a 401K, the previous contribution limits of IRAs were low.
I remember because I had excess savings so I bought a Variable Annuity from Vanguard at that time.
I had a SEP-IRA but that wasn't so huge either.
I set the "annuity date" of the contract to age 99, so I can wait forever to take out the money. There is no Required Minimum Distribution (RMD).
Tip: if you want to add to your retirement savings, consider Vanguard Tax Managed Capital Appreciation.
This is managed so that it doesn't produce a big annoying 1099 to increase your taxes each year.
I like the flexibility of this account; you do not have an RMD like a retirement account, and capital gains may be taxed lower than income (IRA, 401K withdrawals are taxed like income).
Anyone who can work can have money in retirement; $500/month in capital appreciation funds for 33 years will be sufficient probably.
Do people have the burning desire to save for their future? From my conversations with people, few do.
I witnessed a parent and some relatives struggle financially and decided I would do what it takes to have money when I was older.
I was fanatical about it probably.
I also witnessed how taxes severely impacted my parent and from a young age have been anti-welfare state government and anti-taxation.
I remember because I had excess savings so I bought a Variable Annuity from Vanguard at that time.
I had a SEP-IRA but that wasn't so huge either.
I set the "annuity date" of the contract to age 99, so I can wait forever to take out the money. There is no Required Minimum Distribution (RMD).
Tip: if you want to add to your retirement savings, consider Vanguard Tax Managed Capital Appreciation.
This is managed so that it doesn't produce a big annoying 1099 to increase your taxes each year.
I like the flexibility of this account; you do not have an RMD like a retirement account, and capital gains may be taxed lower than income (IRA, 401K withdrawals are taxed like income).
Anyone who can work can have money in retirement; $500/month in capital appreciation funds for 33 years will be sufficient probably.
Do people have the burning desire to save for their future? From my conversations with people, few do.
I witnessed a parent and some relatives struggle financially and decided I would do what it takes to have money when I was older.
I was fanatical about it probably.
I also witnessed how taxes severely impacted my parent and from a young age have been anti-welfare state government and anti-taxation.
2
Patrick
2024 Oct 11, 9:43am
Patrick
2024 Oct 11, 9:43am
For me, the secret was to never buy a house, but instead put all the money that I saved by renting into stocks, maxing out my 401k each year. We had to keep rent down too obviously, but I had some good luck there. And driving one old car between the two of us, not buying new clothes much, etc.
Took 30 years of that, but now I should not have to work again. It's not like I'm rich, just that I have enough to pay my relatively low living expenses for the rest of my life. And we take a nice vacation each year.
Took 30 years of that, but now I should not have to work again. It's not like I'm rich, just that I have enough to pay my relatively low living expenses for the rest of my life. And we take a nice vacation each year.
3
clambo
2024 Oct 11, 10:53am
Prince Harry post herewith:
I just bought a plane ticket and clicked "first class" for the first time; it felt fine.
I realized I can afford it, so why not?
I've flown first class before, but it was not my money and I was upgraded a couple times, etc.
I just bought a plane ticket and clicked "first class" for the first time; it felt fine.
I realized I can afford it, so why not?
I've flown first class before, but it was not my money and I was upgraded a couple times, etc.
4
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 11, 11:01am
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 11, 11:01am
There are people here that don't have at least $5M in liquid assets???
5
Patrick
2024 Oct 11, 11:03am
Patrick
2024 Oct 11, 11:03am
We flew first class once after an Italian vacation when Alitalia overbooked and upgraded us just to fill the seats. Pretty nice. Could not reach the seat in front of me with arms or feet with my seatbelt on. That was a novelty. And the seat went way back, making it easier to sleep. Great food, attentive service.
If I ever get a lot of money, I'll fly first class and drink really good wine. Probably finally buy a house too. I can live without those things though. It's OK either way.
If I ever get a lot of money, I'll fly first class and drink really good wine. Probably finally buy a house too. I can live without those things though. It's OK either way.
6
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 11, 11:06am
zzyzzx
2024 Oct 11, 11:06am
Patrick says
I thought that everyone here was only interested in retiring in Caligulan splendor?
I have enough to pay my relatively low living expenses for the rest of my life.
I thought that everyone here was only interested in retiring in Caligulan splendor?
8
Ceffer
2024 Oct 11, 3:46pm
Ceffer
2024 Oct 11, 3:46pm
Rin needs to return more often to make everybody feel poor and financially ignorant.
Maybe his new Mata Hari will take care of trimming that fortune and he'll be bumping along with the rest of the Patnet Plebs. Even worse, Rin will return as a name stolen body double with the original Rin dissolving in a barrel of acid.
Maybe his new Mata Hari will take care of trimming that fortune and he'll be bumping along with the rest of the Patnet Plebs. Even worse, Rin will return as a name stolen body double with the original Rin dissolving in a barrel of acid.
9
stereotomy
2024 Oct 11, 5:07pm
stereotomy
2024 Oct 11, 5:07pm
I think people in their 30's and early 40's are in max GAS (Gear Aquisition Mode), whether it be toys, houses, boats, etc. For me, once I hit my 50's, that urge fades - I think it's instinctual and hard-coded into us as "grandparent mode." You stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about your descendants yet to be born, and what the fuck you can do to help them.
10
Ceffer
2024 Oct 11, 7:08pm
Ceffer
2024 Oct 11, 7:08pm
I lost all interest in luxury cars a while ago. The attendants were always exquisitely polite at the dealerships (unusual in California unless somebody is trying to sell you something), but they always poured on the heat for overpriced services. The Euro cars you basically lease, because they think it is normal to spend thousands in the shop visits every year. The Germans expect you to read the whole manual apparently, part of the OC disorder.
I have had a strange hankering for a Mercedes G550 lately for some reason, but it would never fit into the garage, and it's just spitballing fantasy. It'll go away soon.
I have had a strange hankering for a Mercedes G550 lately for some reason, but it would never fit into the garage, and it's just spitballing fantasy. It'll go away soon.
11
RWSGFY
2024 Oct 12, 11:45am
RWSGFY
2024 Oct 12, 11:45am
zzyzzx says
Yeah, I don't believe it either.
There are people here that don't have at least $5M in liquid assets???
Yeah, I don't believe it either.
13
FortWayneHatesRealtors
2026 Jan 15, 4:52pm
I bet everyone with a non-profit has a lot more than that., those learning centers powered by federal grants are bees knees money buckets these days.
14
Patrick
2026 Jan 15, 5:25pm
Patrick
2026 Jan 15, 5:25pm
Patrick says
In retrospect, maxing out my 401k was a mistake because of the vastly higher taxes on regular income than on capital gains.
https://patrick.net/post/1386466/2026-01-07-it-was-a-mistake-to-have-a-401-k-after
maxing out my 401k each year
In retrospect, maxing out my 401k was a mistake because of the vastly higher taxes on regular income than on capital gains.
https://patrick.net/post/1386466/2026-01-07-it-was-a-mistake-to-have-a-401-k-after
15
stfu
2026 Jan 15, 6:17pm
Ceffer says
My impression (not that I could understand all of his advice) was that he was big time into the TA (Technical Analysis). To me that is just snake oil. As soon as there is a pattern in the noise there are an infinite number of Algorithms to exploit it.
I could be wrong. Then again I've never fucked latex.
Rin needs to return more often to make everybody feel poor and financially ignorant.
My impression (not that I could understand all of his advice) was that he was big time into the TA (Technical Analysis). To me that is just snake oil. As soon as there is a pattern in the noise there are an infinite number of Algorithms to exploit it.
I could be wrong. Then again I've never fucked latex.
17
GNL
2026 Jan 15, 7:22pm
GNL
2026 Jan 15, 7:22pm
So, as far at the OP question goes, not many. In fact, VERY few retire with a net worth of 5 million. Like VERY few.
18
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2026 Jan 15, 8:19pm
Al_Sharpton_for_President
2026 Jan 15, 8:19pm
Patrick says
I dunno, it is kind of complicated. You’d have to calculate employer matching in your 401k and the tax savings when you were working.
In retrospect, maxing out my 401k was a mistake because of the vastly higher taxes on regular income than on capital gains.
I dunno, it is kind of complicated. You’d have to calculate employer matching in your 401k and the tax savings when you were working.
19
floki
2026 Jan 15, 9:36pm
A 45yo, 10% compounding ROI, and a very discipline trading strategy, target retirement age at around 66yo, per the rule of 72 will double the portfolio every 7.2y. It should be realistic to achieve something close to $5M right ?
If starting @ $500K, $1M @ 52.2yo, $2M @ 59.4yo, $4M @ 66.6yo
If starting at $550K, $1.1M @ 52.2yo, $2.2M @ 59.4yo, $4.4M @ 66.6yo
If starting @ $600K, $1.2M @ 52.2yo, $2.4 @ 59.4yo, $4.8M @ 66.6yo
etc...
To me, the key is reaching the $500K by 45yo. This is America and there are many paths to that. If one started a real career at around 25yo in most decent jobs, saving $25K/year for 20y should not be a big hurdle. Am I wrong ?
Sounds like many of you have reached or surpassed that. How did you do it? Is 10% ROI realistic ? What strategy and discipline did you use ?
If starting @ $500K, $1M @ 52.2yo, $2M @ 59.4yo, $4M @ 66.6yo
If starting at $550K, $1.1M @ 52.2yo, $2.2M @ 59.4yo, $4.4M @ 66.6yo
If starting @ $600K, $1.2M @ 52.2yo, $2.4 @ 59.4yo, $4.8M @ 66.6yo
etc...
To me, the key is reaching the $500K by 45yo. This is America and there are many paths to that. If one started a real career at around 25yo in most decent jobs, saving $25K/year for 20y should not be a big hurdle. Am I wrong ?
Sounds like many of you have reached or surpassed that. How did you do it? Is 10% ROI realistic ? What strategy and discipline did you use ?
20
clambo
2026 Jan 16, 4:56am
The 10% return was possible in the last 30 years, but not so likely for the next 30 years, so I would calculate using a lower figure, 8% or something.
My method was being frugal and a fanatical investor in stock mutual funds.
Since 1992 I was self-employed, so I sometimes made more money without asking someone for a raise.
My method was being frugal and a fanatical investor in stock mutual funds.
Since 1992 I was self-employed, so I sometimes made more money without asking someone for a raise.
22
HeadSet
2026 Jan 16, 9:03am
HeadSet
2026 Jan 16, 9:03am
clambo says
Lucky. The mutual funds I bought performed poorly. I would have been better off putting that money in credit union CDs. My personal stock picks over all have done much better.
fanatical investor in stock mutual funds.
Lucky. The mutual funds I bought performed poorly. I would have been better off putting that money in credit union CDs. My personal stock picks over all have done much better.
24
Tenpoundbass
2026 Jan 16, 9:59am
Tenpoundbass
2026 Jan 16, 9:59am
By the time the tax man fucks your nest egg in the ass. It will be about 1.8 million. If you were dumb enough to fall for the pretax retirement scam.
25
floki
2026 Jan 16, 10:09am
Yes @clambo, I was thinking 7.5-8% too, especially being spread out over that long.
Then the alternative is to save at least $500K at 45yo to start with. With 8% ROI, 9y to double, target retirement age of around 65,
$500K @ 45yo, $1M @ 54yo, $2M @ 63yo, plus approx $300K for the remaining 2y, total $2.3M
$600K @ 45yo, $1.2M @ 54yo, $2.4M @ 63yo, plus approx $400K fornthe remaining 2y, total $2.8M
$750K @ 45yo, $1.5M @ 54yo, $3M @ 63yo, plus approx $500K for the remaining 2y, total $3.5M
$1M @ 45yo, $2M @ 54yo, $4M @ 63yo, plus approx $650K for the remaining 2y, total $4.6M
So $1M does it. But that seems hard to do while living life and raising a family. Maybe $600K-$750K is the more realistic goal, about $30K-$35K saved per year.
Assume generally good health, cheap housing or paid off, frugal lifestyle, etc... plus some SS income, is $3M nestegg enough? That'll provide at least $100K/y draw for 30y while keeping some of the rest in low ROI but stable investments.
With $5M, I think for the majority of normal and average lifestyle in retirements, most of that money will be left behind. Not a bad thing for the kids though, but $3M sounds good too.
In SF, the 2 nursing homes that some of my family members work in, the average age of tenents coming in is around 73yo and live for around 12-15 years. I've heard of 4 or 5 folks living in their 90s, happy and healthy too! The cost is about $5-6K/m for an all inclusive room.
Then the alternative is to save at least $500K at 45yo to start with. With 8% ROI, 9y to double, target retirement age of around 65,
$500K @ 45yo, $1M @ 54yo, $2M @ 63yo, plus approx $300K for the remaining 2y, total $2.3M
$600K @ 45yo, $1.2M @ 54yo, $2.4M @ 63yo, plus approx $400K fornthe remaining 2y, total $2.8M
$750K @ 45yo, $1.5M @ 54yo, $3M @ 63yo, plus approx $500K for the remaining 2y, total $3.5M
$1M @ 45yo, $2M @ 54yo, $4M @ 63yo, plus approx $650K for the remaining 2y, total $4.6M
So $1M does it. But that seems hard to do while living life and raising a family. Maybe $600K-$750K is the more realistic goal, about $30K-$35K saved per year.
Assume generally good health, cheap housing or paid off, frugal lifestyle, etc... plus some SS income, is $3M nestegg enough? That'll provide at least $100K/y draw for 30y while keeping some of the rest in low ROI but stable investments.
With $5M, I think for the majority of normal and average lifestyle in retirements, most of that money will be left behind. Not a bad thing for the kids though, but $3M sounds good too.
In SF, the 2 nursing homes that some of my family members work in, the average age of tenents coming in is around 73yo and live for around 12-15 years. I've heard of 4 or 5 folks living in their 90s, happy and healthy too! The cost is about $5-6K/m for an all inclusive room.
26
floki
2026 Jan 16, 10:11am
zzyzzx says
Hehe I should have said AT LEAST.
floki says
To me, the key is reaching the $500K by 45yo.
That's weak! 1M by 40.
Hehe I should have said AT LEAST.
27
Patrick
2026 Jan 16, 10:11am
Patrick
2026 Jan 16, 10:11am
floki says
Not 10% every year. Some years are down years, some years are up more than 10%. I think 7% or 8% is realistic.
Mostly I just bought dividend-paying stocks, because they are less volatile, and because you get that dividend. I almost never sell. You have to resist the urge to think you know what's going to happen with any given stock. You don't. I got burned over and over trying to trade instead of just holding. Now I just hold.
In contradiction to my usual dividend-stock strategy, I bought and held a tech stock (SHOP) because it was beating the ass of the company I had been working for (Big Commerce). That one went up yugely and led to my disgust with 401(k) plans, because now I'll owe maximum regular income rates on that gain instead of capital gains rates. Good problem to have I guess.
Some guy online claims that it really doesn't matter what stock you buy, because in theory they are all fairly valued all the time, based on the known risks and upside potential. Not sure that's true, but it's interesting. Maybe it doesn't really matter.
I don't like mutual funds because of their fees, and because they might be tempted to buy and sell for illegal kickbacks. I like individual stocks. Exception: the Vanguard index funds track the overall market well, and have really low annual fees, like 0.1%.
How did you do it? Is 10% ROI realistic ? What strategy and discipline did you use ?
Not 10% every year. Some years are down years, some years are up more than 10%. I think 7% or 8% is realistic.
Mostly I just bought dividend-paying stocks, because they are less volatile, and because you get that dividend. I almost never sell. You have to resist the urge to think you know what's going to happen with any given stock. You don't. I got burned over and over trying to trade instead of just holding. Now I just hold.
In contradiction to my usual dividend-stock strategy, I bought and held a tech stock (SHOP) because it was beating the ass of the company I had been working for (Big Commerce). That one went up yugely and led to my disgust with 401(k) plans, because now I'll owe maximum regular income rates on that gain instead of capital gains rates. Good problem to have I guess.
Some guy online claims that it really doesn't matter what stock you buy, because in theory they are all fairly valued all the time, based on the known risks and upside potential. Not sure that's true, but it's interesting. Maybe it doesn't really matter.
I don't like mutual funds because of their fees, and because they might be tempted to buy and sell for illegal kickbacks. I like individual stocks. Exception: the Vanguard index funds track the overall market well, and have really low annual fees, like 0.1%.
28
floki
2026 Jan 16, 10:23am
On the other hand, I do also know and have talked to folks in their 60s living in cheaper places around the world (thailand, vietnam, philipines, japan, mexico, costa rica, brazil, peru) on SS alone, some with young partners LOL. They seem happier too !
Data from the Employee Benefit Research Institute, based on the Federal Reserve’s Survey of Consumer Finances, reveals that a mere 0.1% of retirees manage to accumulate over $5 million in their retirement accounts, whereas only 3.2% amass over $1 million.
A look at those with around $5 million in savings, as reported by the Wall Street Journal, shows that such retirees often did not anticipate reaching such financial heights. They were consistent in their savings efforts from early in their careers, yet their lifestyles remained modest. Many continue to work part-time, forego frequent new clothing purchases, and, while they do splurge on global travel, they share the same concerns about health and family as other older Americans.
Meanwhile, Northwestern Mutual’s research indicates that Americans believe they need around $1.46 million to retire comfortably. Yet, the median retirement savings account balance paints a grimmer picture, standing at only $87,000, according to the latest figures from the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances. Here’s how these figures breakdown by age group:
—Under 35: $18,880
—35-44: $45,000
—45-54: $115,000
—55-64: $185,000
—65-74: $200,000
—75 or older: $130,000
While the average balance across all families is higher at $333,940, this number is skewed upward by the wealthiest households. Besides retirement accounts, many retirees also have substantial amounts held in regular savings, brokerage accounts, and investment properties.
The equity in a retiree’s home also significantly contributes to their financial security. In 2021, home equity accounted for a median of 45% of the total net worth of U.S. homeowners, indicating a significant portion of an average person’s wealth comes from their primary residence.
The picture of American retirees’ financial health is thus more nuanced than it appears. Financial planners advise considering all assets and net worth to fully assess retirement readiness, rather than focusing solely on retirement account balances.
Although a $5 million nest egg is rare, achieving a comfortable retirement is still within reach. By consulting with a financial advisor, you can develop a tailored plan to meet your retirement goals based on your financial situation and lifestyle aspirations. A financial advisor can provide valuable insights and strategies to help you maximize your savings and ensure financial security for your retirement years.
https://www.benzinga.com/money/retire-5mil-nest-egg