patrick.net

Misc says

41% of people say they are ok with the killing.

Probably more people are ok with it. Americans don't like unethical ways of making money.

gabbar says

Misc says

41% of people say they are ok with the killing.

Probably more people are ok with it. Americans don't like unethical ways of making money.

It's just money. Killing a man with kids is awful. Unless you assaulted or molested by kid, I'll never kill anyone. Money can be made again. More harm would be done just not paying the co-pay and deductible and taking the credit ding. The profit goes down and he loses his job if more people did that. It's not government. Can't garnish wages or lien your home.

The problem is most Americans want their toys and empty status so they buy things on credit. So they don't want medical bills to go into collections. Always get yourself into a situation that your credit eventually doesn't matter. 6-8 months away from that where I could give no shits about my credit. If I'm making $400k, what do I need credit for? I could literally go ape shit and drop $100k on my 15 cards and just not pay them. You don't have to file BK.

Federal government (IRS) and local government, property taxes generally are the only ones with authority to collect from you or lien. Your debt is technically paid when it goes into collections. Dealing with this on medical bills currently from the post office work. I'm not paying it and haven't and can still go to the doc. I don't answer my phone unless I know the number. NEVER accept certified mail or something that requires a signature that comes out of nowhere or you didn't order.

Make yourself a pseudo name as well that you can remember on demand. "Are you John Doe" (your actual name) you just say no I'm Brad Smith. I don't have an ID. I'm disabled and don't have to drive so don't have an ID.

And yes this is unethical, but so is killing another human if not worse. Just don't pay them if you want to fight them. Just know what you have to do.

Misc says

41% of people say they are ok with the killing.

I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 41%.

"Tony Ronzoni" needs to get the electric chair.

Misc says

I dunno, he could've been trying to make a citizen's arrest and the perp resisted arrest. -- Let a jury decide.

41% of people say they are ok with the killing.

I have a strong hunch as to where these 41% fall on the IQ bell curve.

WookieMan says

Killing a man with kids is awful.

Did the actions of this man, the company he was the CEO of and other companies in this industry harm the lives of Americans? Who committed the greater harm, Luigi or Brian?

Older Americans don't understand the relatively hard present and future problems young Americans are likely to face.

gabbar says

WookieMan says

Killing a man with kids is awful.

Did the actions of this man, the company he was the CEO of and other companies in this industry harm the lives of Americans? Who committed the greater harm?

Harmed how? By refusing some claims? Is every claim automatically valid in your world? There is no fraud, hypochondria and outright mental illness in it? For all we know the bulk of there rejected claims could be sex change operations. 🤡 Or fatasses demanding Ozempic instead of eating less and moving more.

What is the alternative? Government healthcare? We have that in spades. Somehow not everybody is happy with it either.

gabbar says

Older Americans don't understand the relatively hard present and future problems young Americans are likely to face.

I remember all the hand-wringing and perl-clutching about Millenials supposedly having no future and being relegated to abject poverty. Turns out they are doing just fine and already holding about 10% of total wealth in the US. Charts like that most of all illustrate the results of the demoralization campaign unleashed at the population over the last quarter of the century.

One thing missing from these staged 'assassinations' is any description of the chain of hospitalization or auxiliaries in the chain being interviewed, or even coroner follow up. On TV programs, you always have these lengthy hospital bed scenes where the person lingers until death surrounded by people. Most gunshot victims do survive for variable times afterwards.

Deep State of course will enlist stunt pathologists if that is even required.

With the stagies, it's almost from immediate, absolute death on the scene, to some obscure transport to crematorium, like all the after effects of the shooting vaporize because they aren't necessary to the narrative. The excessive bull horning around the patsy preoccupies the waves.

RWSGFY says

What is the alternative? Government healthcare?

The alternative is to present every non-emergency bill in advance of treatment instead of hiding the prices until they show up in the mail. Any charge not approved and signed by the patient in advance of treatment would not need to be paid.

If people could shop around, US medical costs would be massively reduced.

Emergency costs should be fixed at reasonable prices by law, because there can be no shopping in emergencies.

The point of health insurance is only to share the costs of devastating illness, not to be needed on every visit like it is now. Insurance could then go back to that function.

gabbar says

WookieMan says

Killing a man with kids is awful.

Did the actions of this man, the company he was the CEO of and other companies in this industry harm the lives of Americans? Who committed the greater harm?

So you have no issue killing people? Eye for an eye? I don't kill people unless they mess with my kids or wife in violent manner. Killing some CEO is not justified. Don't pay the claim. Don't pay the bill. Who cares? Even with mafia it takes something more than money to kill someone. He could have just beat the shit out of him to get his jolly's. You don't kill another human unless your family or life is at risk. There are alternatives.

Are we getting this fucked as a society. Just fucking whack him with a bat 10 times. Even if you get away with it, taking another mans life is something that will trouble you the rest of your life even if you think it's justified. PTSD

RWSGFY says

"Is every claim automatically valid in your world?"

If the claim is approved by Original Medicare then it is a valid claim and
United Healthcare has no business rejecting it. Rejecting a valid claim is
an assault with a deadly weapon.

RWSGFY says

"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

zzyzzx says

I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 41%.

I also suspect it's much higher than 41%. People don't want to admit it to pollsters.

The ultimate problem is that we are controlled by an oligarchy of billionaires who hide behind voicemail trees and control Congress while pretending we have democracy.

https://www.sott.net/article/288827-No-kidding-Princeton-study-says-US-is-an-oligarchy

"When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy."

The_Deplorable says

RWSGFY says

"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

Wait, what's wrong with forcing all medical providers to state the exact costs in advance so that people can shop around and drive down prices?

You wouldn't eat at a restaurant where they don't tell you the prices until after you're on the hook for them, right?

The_Deplorable says

RWSGFY says

"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

LOL, like NHS or Canadian system doesn't deny shit.

I have a Brit co-worker who moved to the US specifically because the NHS denied fertility treatment for his wife after their meager limit of attempts has ran out. Here it was covered by employer-provided insurance and he now has 2 kids.

One of my college buddies lives in Toronto. His MIL needed a new knee but was offered only cheap one expected to last only 5 years because their "tables shown" that she won't live longer than that. Guess what - she did and had to suffer through another operation.

I have some more stories like this but so is everybody who knows Brits, Canucks or Frogs.

Denied treatment, delayed treatment, inferiour treatment, you name it.

Let the people themselves decide on how much they are willing to pay for treatments!

There would be no denial of treatment, only shopping for a better price, which itself would dramatically reduce prices.

Just make all providers publish their prices and present an exact bill in advance of every non-emergency treatment so that there is no uncertainty of cost and no opportunity to inflate prices to the moon, like we have now.

Increasingly, it's Regency Era England approach to health care; namely the Jane Eyre approach: "Don't get sick."

zzyzzx says

Misc says

41% of people say they are ok with the killing.

I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 41%.

And those 41% are retarded Leftists that have no clue about anything.

Really shocked at how many stupid people on the Right are falling for this horseshit.

What's next, Leftist terrorists killing doctors, nurses and hospital administrators?

The_Deplorable says

RWSGFY says
"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

Healthcare is finite and no one has a "human right" to the labor and services of others.

There WILL BE RATIONING.

Would you rather have a unionized and woke Government retard "Death Panel" rationing and denying your healthcare based on your skin color and economic status? You craving for DMV and DEI level service for your healthcare?

If you could point to unreasonable profits by United Healthcare you might have an argument. But insurance companies will simply go bankrupt if they have to pay for every single claim made by doctors and there is absolutely ENORMOUS fraud in government run Medicare services.

RWSGFY says

"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

RWSGFY says

"LOL, like NHS or Canadian system doesn't deny shit."

You are changing the subject. Please stay on topic!
Again, If the claim is approved by Original Medicare then it is a valid claim and
United Healthcare has no business rejecting it. Rejecting a valid claim is
an assault with a deadly weapon.

socal2 says

The_Deplorable says

RWSGFY says
"What is the alternative? Government healthcare?"

Yes, by orders of magnitude because the existing system is frankly murderous.

Healthcare is finite and no one has a "human right" to the labor and services of others.

There WILL BE RATIONING.

Would you rather have a unionized and woke Government retard "Death Panel" rationing and denying your healthcare based on your skin color and economic status? You craving for DMV and DEI level service for your healthcare?

If you could point to unreasonable profits by United Healthcare you might have an argument. But insurance companies will simply go bankrupt if they have to pay for every single claim made by doctors and there is absolutely ENORMOUS fraud in government run Medicare services.

What you don't understand is that is a pincer movement - create toxic foods and "vaccines" and gaslight everybody to eat and do what is most unhealthy for them, then punish them with "healthcare rationing."

I'm sick and tired or blaming the brainwashed victim. Industry and Gub'ment have colluded to enrich themselves and degrade the people.

After Congress passed the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act, corporations, realizing that they couldn't poison the environment with abandon anymore, then started offloading production to China. Corporate America never wanted to play by any rules. Wake the fuck up.

The CFO of a prominent health system (health care provider group = not insurance company) said they face rising costs of around 4% annually While the amount paid by insurance (which includes taxpayer provided government insurance as well as private health insurance) increases by only 2% annually. Obviously this is not sustainable. The government and the insurance industry have colluded and are destroying America’s health care system.

It won’t be fixed until the people say enough is enough and demand change. Only I expect when they do, the government will create a single payer system, AKA socialized medicine, which just means the feds will be rationing care and denying treatment instead of United.

socal2 says

"Healthcare is finite and no one has a "human right" to the labor
and services of others."

This is an invalid argument because the US has the most expensive healthcare on
the planet (by leaps and bounds) with the lowest lifespan in the West. To put it
bluntly, healthcare in the US is a fraud.

PeopleUnited says

It won’t be fixed until the people say enough is enough and demand change.

Even if most people see the problem and demand change, the government is firmly in the hands of mega-corporations like UnitedHealth and acts solely in the interests of those corporations at all times.

Frustration with this state of affairs seems to be what motivated the shooting of that CEO.

We have a great Constitution, but it failed to anticipate the possibility of complete corporate control of Congress. Maybe one solution is to let the people directly vote on the renewal of corporate charters every five years. Extremely evil corporations like UnitedHealth and Pfizer would have their permission to be corporations revoked, resulting in personal liability for those running the companies.

Patrick says

Maybe one solution is to let the people directly vote on the renewal of corporate charters every five years.

My understanding is that corporate charters we only allowed for a finite period to address a specific project such a building a rail line or telephone infrastructure. There should be no corporate licenses that make companies more powerful than people.

Yes, exactly! Corporations were intended to be temporary groups of people acting together to accomplish a specific limited project with an end date.

Now corporations are immortal, like cancer cells.

The real problem is that Good's are divorced from the average wage due to imports and credit cards. It's a far bigger contributor to unaffordability most think.

Everything is happening exactly as Ross Perot said it would.

Dependence on imports creates debt pressure to finance the deficits. Both public AND private.

Don't worry though, China is going to have a liberal government anytime now 😂

AmericanKulak says

Dependence on imports creates debt pressure to finance the deficits.

You are confusing trade deficits vs budget deficits, it seems.

Patrick says

PeopleUnited says

It won’t be fixed until the people say enough is enough and demand change.

Even if most people see the problem and demand change, the government is firmly in the hands of mega-corporations like UnitedHealth and acts solely in the interests of those corporations at all times.

Frustration with this state of affairs seems to be what motivated the shooting of that CEO.

We have a great Constitution, but it failed to anticipate the possibility of complete corporate control of Congress. Maybe one solution is to let the people directly vote on the renewal of corporate charters every five years. Extremely evil corporations like UnitedHealth and Pfizer would have their permission to be corporations revoked, resulting in personal liability for those running the companies.

Exactly - corporations were never imagined to be immortal. Finite limits to corporate charters. This achieves two things 1) There is no benefit to psychos to control something that is guaranteed dead after 5 years. 2) It puts the onus on Federal or State legislatures to take more direct control over corporations. Yes, there can be corruption, but legislators, in the absence of vote corruption, are probably more responsible than corporate dark-triad psycho CEOs.

stereotomy says

Yes, there can be corruption, but legislators, in the absence of vote corruption, are probably more responsible than corporate dark-triad psycho CEOs.

Both the Republican National Committee and the Democratic National Committee are private corporations and each have complete control over the business and activities of their organizations. Source: https://www.drmikekatz.com/the_dnc_and_rnc_are_private_corporations

Patrick says

Even if most people see the problem and demand change, the government is firmly in the hands of mega-corporations like UnitedHealth and acts solely in the interests of those corporations at all times.

I think its the other way around; corporation balls are in the hands of the government; if the corporations don't do the government department head bidding, he/she will squeeze the corporation balls one way or the other. At best, they are 69ing.

@gabbar You're right that corporations which do not obey the CIA and State Department get "investigated" for imaginary crimes.

Facebook found itself threatened by the government when it hesitated to completely censor the vast number of serious injuries and deaths caused by the mRNA injections, for example. Elon Musk's companies are now being "investigated" in a similar way.

Google, however, is itself an arm of the CIA at this point, a way for them to efficiently spy on all the Gmail and search habits of America.

So I agree that they're 69ing. And they do this partly to prevent the free market from working. If, say, a new company displaced Google, then the ability of the government to spy on all of us would be greatly reduced. Therefore, no such new company will be allowed to grow - unless they agree to give all their user info to the CIA.

Marc Andreessen just remarked on this - how he was explicitly told not to bother founding any AI companies, but only the three or so now in existence will be allowed, because the government can control them. No competing AI companies will be allowed to gain any substantial market share. Lol, I see that you yourself commented on this:

https://patrick.net/post/1382778/2024-12-03-marc-andreessen-at-joe-rogan-podcast?start=1#comment-2123357

stereotomy says

corporations were never imagined to be immortal.

That was the way it started out with corporations. They had a limited defined purpose with a beginning, a middle and a defined end.

The foreign occupied foreign city state of Washington DC is a corporate zombie, since the foreign corporations are completely dead bankrupt, but Congress keeps them lurching on by fiat legislation because they are the source of all the corrupt bounties.

DOGEWontAmountToShit says

You are confusing trade deficits vs budget deficits, it seems.

No, I'm conflating them on purpose. Trade deficits inevitably lead to budget deficits.

AmericanKulak says

Trade deficits inevitably lead to budget deficits.

No, they don't.

Patrick says

Google, however, is itself an arm of the CIA at this point, a way for them to efficiently spy on all the Gmail and search habits of America.

UnitedHealth Care may be the Google in health insurance industry.

gabbar says

Patrick says

Google, however, is itself an arm of the CIA at this point, a way for them to efficiently spy on all the Gmail and search habits of America.

UnitedHealth Care may be the Google in health insurance industry.

While true likely, you don't just go killing people because you don't like their company. 2-3 body guards at $100-150k/yr a piece is nothing sauce. $20k on a security system at home. Fencing. Bullet proof windows. Oh goodness I spent X amount of dollars AND EXPENSE it to the company.

I guess it creates jobs, but now CEO's are likely getting security detail. Guess what? They just pass that onto the costumer and your rates go up.

First you just don't kill other humans. I don't care how much disdain you have. Regardless of not allowing a claim or whatever, there are alternative that don't involve killing. The CEO never even made a decision on a claim. That's 3-4 levels down. Are they good people, no, but there are a ton more bad people out there that are worse.