8
2

India


               
2024 Dec 30, 7:29pm   34,042 views  675 comments

by Patrick   follow (59)  

https://www.amren.com/features/2024/12/india-its-worse-than-you-think/


India: It’s Worse Than You Think

Most Westerners know nothing about India beyond vague ideas about Hinduism, yoga, gurus, and maybe a dash of Bollywood. To such people, this article will be a rude awakening. ...

I had first returned to India with the idea of improving it, but after 11 years, I realized that India was a sinking ship, with worsening and increasingly shameless corruption, degraded people, and a society that was falling apart. I had never met an honest bureaucrat or politician. I applied to emigrate to Canada and my application was approved in a record three weeks.

I now advise East Asian and Western corporations on investing in India. Most of what I tell them sounds to them exaggerated, unrealistic, and unbelievable. After much dance, drama, and a great deal of lost money, they begin to believe what I tell them. However, this learning is never institutionalized because of a refusal to understand India. This is a form of political correctness, a poison eating away the innards of Western values.

When I was a child growing up in India, I learned that “might makes right.” Power was often abused, with those in control acting as if they had a God-given right to exploit and dominate others. The display of authority could be so extreme that questioning it or expecting those in power to do their duty might lead to retribution. Those in authority seemed to believe that their positions were not for serving others but for personal gain.

People who showed respect appeared to have meekly accepted a lower, subservient position. Kind people had to hide their compassion, for being nice was seen as a weakness.

In India, I have rarely seen someone in authority take the initiative to solve a problem he was responsible for. When I was at university, an underaged boy who worked in the kitchen was raped and sodomized by the janitors. I reported the matter, but not only did no one in authority do what was right — something well within their power — the authorities and fellow students threatened me with severe consequences if I pursued the matter further. Devoid of empathy, they also made fun of the boy and me.

Yes, there is an element of sadism here. There is some degree of pleasure that Indians take in the pain suffered by others. The attitude of the authorities was like that of the high-placed Delhi bureaucrat who told me that his Black Label whiskey tastes so much better because he knows that most Indians can’t afford to drink it.

This confuses Westerners. If they had power, even if they were corrupt, in a situation where there was nothing to gain or lose — no bribes to receive since both parties were poor, and no risk of offending someone well-connected — they would do the right thing and book the alleged rapist. These Indians would do nothing, not even lift a finger, unless there was a reward: money or sex. Their apathy was bottomless.


The article goes on about how incredibly low-trust India is as a society.

True? Any people from India want to opine on this?

Comments 1 - 10 of 675       Last »     Search these comments

1   Blue   2024 Dec 30, 9:04pm  

This is mostly correct.
Since “independence”, communists took over the country and implemented freebies to “poor” in education and government jobs. Special rights and privileges given to “minorities” who vote almost 100% to the same communist parties. All communist parties are puppets of the west, china, fake Stan.

Judiciary and police are totally corrupt.
Imagine about 85% cases are related to property crimes. Cases typically take about 1 to 6 decades. Cases get closed because most of the time one side gives up after threats, getting killed etc.
Land records from the government are really a big joke. Any one can create those documents and file a case against the actual owner to kick them out.

For the last 20 years right leaning government get elected and showing positive results in economy and improving law and order. But they have limited room to play as they are labeled with “Hindu” by media to end the government and bring back indirectly ruling opposition minority communist parties in to power.
“Minorities” are growing increasingly who associate with fake Stan than India. Christian missionaries are trying their best to create their own blocks and trying to separate on border states.
I don’t know much but there got be something common to correlate and bind people together to be productive. Without that, things would fall apart.
2   Tenpoundbass   2024 Dec 30, 9:06pm  

People in America don't care what caste you're from or what color is you skin. That kills Liberals.
3   Patrick   2024 Dec 30, 10:41pm  

One Indian guy I know told me that property rights are very uncertain in India, and that if the right person gets bribed, the title to your land gets taken away.

If you don't like it, you might get killed for objecting. I was pretty shocked.
4   Blue   2024 Dec 30, 11:40pm  

Patrick says


One Indian guy I know told me that property rights are very uncertain in India, and that if the right person gets bribed, the title to your land gets taken away.

If you don't like it, you might get killed for objecting. I was pretty shocked.

If the land value is getting high, one should look for political connection with bribes or sell often at very low price to them.
Otherwise one would get killed and land/property get occupied. Very likely gov employees, judges and police get their cut on the way.
I say it with experience of our family and quite a few we know, unfortunately. It’s quite common in cities particularly where there are more “minorities” live.
Remember most communist politician give everything "free" to "poor" people who love them!
6   MolotovCocktail   2024 Dec 31, 7:27am  

Patrick says

One Indian guy I know told me that property rights are very uncertain in India, and that if the right person gets bribed, the title to your land gets taken away


Philippines is the same way.
7   Blue   2024 Dec 31, 8:11am  

I heard similar stories from a coworker from Vietnam. If the value goes up significantly higher, “gov” gets it in major cities.
10   bhaktha   2024 Dec 31, 7:20pm  

Patrick says

The article goes on about how incredibly low-trust India is as a society.

True? Any people from India want to opine on this?

Hi Patrick,

I will give it a shot. But first a little background, please bear with me.

I was born and brought up in Bengaluru (aka Bangalore), like lots of people during the 90s, after graduating with Bachelors in engg and working for a couple of years came to US on a student visa and finished my MS@ArizonaState. Worked in Intel for a decade at Intel in Chandler, AZ. For various reasons moved back to my home town in 2006 and have been here since then. CoFounded a company (amongst other investors, Chamath P was also an investor) and successfully exited in 2020. Now I am the CEO and founder of Chara (chara.co.in), building RareEarth free motors and controllers for traction and various other applications. REs are critical minerals, PRC controls about 90% of the supply chain, our work has attracted lots of attention including the venture arm of the famous CIA !

I have been a lurker here for more than a decade, have exchanged messages with Patrick a couple of times. Politically I am right wing and would still like to keep in touch with the happenings in US for old times sake and for the simple reason that whatever US does has an effect on the rest of the world. And I severely doubt the narrative of the MSM

The video and the article that follows is extremely biased and simply wrong. This is somewhat similar to the WA messages we get about SF (crime, tent cities, drugs et al) or about the gun culture, the uninitiated might think this is how the whole US is. BTW I really feel sorry about the state of SF I was there in the summer of last year and the saw a fine city go to waste, sorry I digress.

India has 101 problems but is now a vibrant, developing economy. IMO this is the land of opportunities. Investors are pouring in money, because this is the last single largest market remaining in the world today that can be tapped into.

Compared to US this is a low trust society for a variety of historical reasons, but technology is solving many of them.

Having lived in both sides of the planet, the biggest problem that still troubles me are the following, in that order.

1. Governance is poor (courts are slow, bureaucracy is inefficient and corrupt and enforcement is lax)
2. Too much diversity (it is my opinion that diversity introduces friction when one trying to build a business, a community or a country)
3. Too many people (again my opinion, some see this as a huge advantage, could be true)
4. Infra needs lots of improvement
5. It is somewhat a feudalistic society (the old vestiges of class and hierarchy still permeates but is rapidly disappearing)
6. Air quality is bad in the cities (this will take a decade or so to fix I think)

Superficially that hits visitors is the chaos of traffic and trash thrown around.

On the plus side, the economy is growing at a blistering pace, lots of opportunities. And things are improving a lot. During the 80s and 90s the difference between India and USofA was stark, almost black and white. Now it is not, it is shades of gray. I say this after talking to recent college grads, they no longer see the west as the only way for career growth and prosperity, they now want to stay back in India and do something here (this probably because the new administration in the last 12 years has rekindled the animal-instincts/pride/nationalism and has shown real progress which we can all see).

And the food is simply amazing, especially the old restaurants. (Vidyarthi Bhavan, CTR, MLTR et al if you are from Bengaluru). And I love the music and the dance concerts and the travel to visit old monuments, there are so many of them, most of them more than 1000 years old.

I have lots of friends who have moved back (some of them even born in the US and a few Caucasian) and have decided to stay back for good. I do visit US roughly once a year mostly on work and I am more amazed now than before. Unfortunately I also see the degradation in some aspects and worry about the rise of China. I really hope the new administration takes some drastic steps in fixing some of the fundamental issues.

Cheers,
-Bhaktha

PS : I really like the format, the community and the "management" of Patrick in this forum, would love to do this here when I retire (a few years away ...)

Comments 1 - 10 of 675       Last »     Search these comments

Please register to comment:

api   best comments   contact   latest images   memes   one year ago   users   suggestions   gaiste