patrick.net

DeficitHawk says

This is the current status of the case, per SCOTUS and the district courts as far as I know.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/courtorders/041925zr_c18e.pdf
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.txsd.2000771/gov.uscourts.txsd.2000771.58.0_1.pdf

Yes and you're interpreting it wrong to suit your narrative. SCOTUS has given the Trump administration broad rights for deportations without court case, here's a good summary:
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=253229

mell says

Yes and you're interpreting it wrong to suit your narrative. SCOTUS has given the Trump administration broad rights to deportations without court case, here's a good summary:
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=253229

The SCOTUS ruling in that link is from the 1940's usage of the AEA during WWII. Not the current case. Relevance?

The link i gave is the ruling for the current AEA case, which the court finds is NOT valid because it is NOT a war.
"As for the activities of the Venezuelan-directed TdA in the United States, and as described in the Proclamation, the Court concludes that they do not fall within the plain, ordinary meaning of “invasion” or “predatory incursion” for purposes of the AEA"

DeficitHawk says

mell says

Yes and you're interpreting it wrong to suit your narrative. SCOTUS has given the Trump administration broad rights to deportations without court case, here's a good summary:
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=253229

The SCOTUS ruling in that link is from the 1940's usage of the AEA during WWII. Not the current case. Relevance?

The link i gave is the ruling for the current AEA case, which the court finds is NOT valid because it is NOT a war.
"As for the activities of the Venezuelan-directed TdA in the United States, and as described in the Proclamation, the Court concludes that they do not fall within the plain, ordinary meaning of “invasion” or “predatory incursion” for purposes of the AEA"

That's a court interpretation, not a ruling. The former case stands and individuals need to bring separate habeas corpus cases for themselves to have any right to challenge, in the meantime they can be deported. Maybe MD will rule in their favor, most red states certainly won't, most will end up where they already are. SCOTUS is not ordering and end of the deportations, only saying individuals may have a case if they challenge separately, any broad (class action style) cases are moot.

That being said, I'm fine with individuals bringing habeas corpus cases for themselves one by one. These cases, if taken up, will take time and allow the Trump administration to finally secure the border, and I expect 80% at least to be rejected anyways. What happened in the past decades, esp. under the xiden administration was a full on invasion and treason. Similar things have been happening in European countries with mixed results in fighting back, but the tide is turning. Luckily the US grants the president broader powers in such cases, and it's clear that a decisive majority of Americans is backing Trump.

HeadSet says

The part where Biden flew at least 320,000 into the country

Are you referring to the humanitarian parole program? Those people were not illegal. They have legal status.

Or what are you referring to?

Well @DeficitHawk, we have a real damn problem don’t we? America that is. And just who is responsible? The responsible party is the one who left the border open. We’re going to have to break a few eggs. So solly. Trump has declared an emergency. We have been invaded for decades and it’s time to do something about it. Political extremism is just getting started over the last 16 years imo. We ain’t seen nothing yet. Get on board and support those who are trying to take out the trash. Don’t get me wrong, I think America is toast no matter what.

DeficitHawk says

yawaraf says

Do you believe that the "Maryland Man" did not receive due process?

I think he did not receive due process. As I understand, he was rounded up and deported without a deportation order from a judge.

I just want people to get a chance to stand in front of a judge and get a judges order before the administration carries out a deportation/incarceration. And the administration should follow the judges order.

It’s an emergency. So solly. Cannot do.

Are you seriously going to act like the us administration didnt want the people we brought them incarcerated and intentionally arrange for that outcome?


Has this assumption been adjudicated?

yawaraf says

DeficitHawk,

I hope you stick around, I appreciate that you answer all pertinent questions.

The courts concluded that he was an illegal alien, but you have pointed out they did not issue a deportation order. I am not at all familiar with immigration laws. Is a deportation order a mere technicality or are there some reasons for which an illegal might not be deported?

If a deportation order must follow after establishing an alien's ineligibility to stay, why was it not issued?

Because political lawfare.

Seriously, the nicest thing I can say about @DeficitHawk is that he/she is a dishonest person.

The worst kind of dishonesty is lying to oneself.

He claims to fear a totalitarian government, a lawless government. But Biden failed to enforce the law, secure the border, and deport illegal immigrants. In other words, for the past 4 years we had a lawless totalitarian government that forced states and cities to deal with an influx of millions of illegal aliens and did he complain. Not to my knowledge.

If he truly feared a lawless and totalitarian government he would have said so years ago.

PeopleUnited says

But Biden failed to enforce the law, secure the border, and deport illegal immigrants. In other words, for the past 4 years we had a lawless totalitarian government that forced states and cities to deal with an influx of millions of illegal aliens and did he complain.

That is why the Left was cynically quick to demonize the label "anarcho-tyaranny" as far right or Nazi speech.

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Glock-n-Load says

Seriously, the nicest thing I can say about DeficitHawk is that he/she is a dishonest person.

And the nicest thing you could do is urinate on the grass at his grave site.

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Where was the due process being forced to wear a mask and take your kids out of school during covid? It was illegal. Teachers still got paid and didn't do anything for 2 years. Stop with the due process shit. I'm a citizen, pay massive taxes. I don't give a flying fuck about an illegal that didn't pay taxes, probably got food stamps and other government handouts I'm paying for.

The reality you're living is obscene. Don't give me exact amount. I paid $73k in federal taxes. What did you pay? We just finished tax time so you should know. Illegals should have no rights. They don't pay in SS funds. Medicare. Or anything. I'm cover 4-5 families lives for what? Start throwing in property taxes. Due process is earned through citizenship. I don't care if you felt endangered in your home country. You're a pussy and ran. I don't want those people in my country.

mell says

What happened in the past decades, esp. under the xiden administration was a full on invasion and treason. Similar things have been happening in European countries with mixed results in fighting back, but the tide is turning. Luckily the US grants the president broader powers in such cases, and it's clear that a decisive majority of Americans is backing Trump.

Exactly. Where is our due process as citizens of this country? I know he won't answer the question. Our land is being stolen. People are dying from drugs. Elected officials are not enforcing laws. People are being killed and raped. Let me know when I should give a flying fuck about an illegal that gets a free flight back home. Get out.

They poke the bear enough, there will be violence and it won't be pretty. Hispanics should be a touch worried. I won't do anything violent, but people are getting pissed.

Glock-n-Load says

Seriously, the nicest thing I can say about DeficitHawk is that he/she is a dishonest person.

Well mama always said....

I dont think ive given you any reason to say this.. But whatever, you can have your opinion.

You don't have to trust me, and I dont have to trust you. But we both have to follow the laws of the land. All I am doing here is advocating that we follow the laws of the land. Everyone else here is advocating to break the laws and violate our constitution. Shrug...

WookieMan says

Where is our due process as citizens of this country?

Citizens of the country also get due process. We are entitled a court hearing for crimes. Im not asking for anything different.

Pretty clear I'm talking to rocks at this point.

DeficitHawk says

HeadSet says

The part where Biden flew at least 320,000 into the country

Are you referring to the humanitarian parole program? Those people were not illegal. They have legal status.

Or what are you referring to?

This was an end run by Biden to lower the optics of border crossings. That "Humanitarian Parole" had vetting rules which were promptly ignored along with Covid jab requirements. It was also not designed for mass import but to give the DHS lattitude to grant parole on a case-by-case basis, and then only for a period of one to two years. Again, this parole is temporary, and the parolee is required to leave when the parole expires. DHS has since terminated the program and all such paroles have expired. However, since the rules about paperwork were ignored (along with filing fees, need to be a benefit to the US, and having a financial sponsor) it will be had to locate these parolees.

Same deal. Rules about entering the US are blatantly ignored and even subverted by the government that is supposed to enforce the laws, but somehow the rules about removing the illegals, even the opinions of lower court judges, must be strictly adhered to. It is not about the law, as the law was ignored to allow millions of illegals in, and the only concern is now stopping them from being removed.

"We now can ignore the law because they ignored the law in the past" is not a winning argument in my book. I want the country of laws, period. If the previous admin ignored the law -prosecute, made a lasting example out of the fucks.

RWSGFY says

"We now can ignore the law because they ignored the law in the past" is not a winning argument in my book. I want the country of laws, period. If the previous admin ignored the law -prosecute, made a lasting example out of the fucks.

That is assuming the Democrats like you are operating in good faith. Its naive to think left wing immigration judges are going to act fairly.

So someone breaks the law but gets a free pass from a left wing immigration judge, then nothing will happen other than its just further an example of
Coward Piven Strategy and anarcho tyranny.

You can't prosecute the Birdbrain Biden admin as its just like going after a corrupt Soros prosecutor who lies and engages in malicious prosecution. They will claim they acted in good faith and that they are protected by qualified immunity.

You know this already.

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All the back and forth doesn't matter on this thread. He came here illegally and was sent home. File the proper paperwork and come back. That's his due process. It doesn't need to happen in THIS country after he's committed crimes and is a gang member.

This isn't law 101 where you find a district judge that ruled a certain way. The guy can appeal from El Salvador and come back. That's the due process. The left and the media have twisted this into lies. He could have just followed our laws in the first place on many levels. First one by entering the country illegally. He's free to re-enter legally. I really don't get the fuss about this Hawk.

As AD says above, the person for illegals that should be charged is Biden and Harris. We can deport who we want and due process can be completed from their country of origin if they were here illegally and didn't have a BS refugee status or overstayed a visa. We should get rid of refugee status anyway. You lived and grew up around the problems in your home country, you're just bringing your problems with you.

I'm a 4th generation American. Sorry, we built this damn place. If you don't like it leave. Mistakes were made by the founders, but there's been legal ways to enter this country for 2 centuries. We shot at each other in the civil war. We detained Japanese people during WWII. Now we're giving people a ride back home. I don't understand this thread or what the big deal is. You taking up the "due process" left talking point which is utter bull shit.

WookieMan says

All the back and forth doesn't matter on this thread. He came here illegally and was sent home. File the proper paperwork and come back. That's his due process. It doesn't need to happen in THIS country after he's committed crimes and is a gang member.

That is why they raided that Denver nightclub and arrested over 100 illegal immigrants. They are going after gang members and criminals.

Now Trump could issue publicly an order or direction to ICE to not arrest and deport anyone with status that clearly is not a gang member or engaged in criminal enterprises, such as they have proof they are legally working in the USA.

My concern is there may be immigration officials who are trying to sabotage Trump by deporting those who are not a threat AND have legal status.

I'm not sure as far as "status" or "legal status" of Abigail Garcia but the mainstream media claims he was allowed to remain in the USA and legally work.

Maybe they had enough law enforcement intelligence that showed he was a gang member, but then what does that mean ? Go to a Soros prosecutor or left wing immigration judge and ask to revoke his status ?

But like Wookie and Headset stated, what do you do when the Democrats like Birdbrain Biden act in bad faith ?

Sure, let everyone in including MS 13 and Tren de Araga gang members and given them legal status. Therefore that drops the number of illegal border crossings.

How many of those arrested in the Denver night club were allowed in by Birdbrain Biden ?

This is why the Left like RWSGY and DeficitHawk will demonize the term "anarcho tyranny" as hate speech.
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RWSGFY says

"We now can ignore the law because they ignored the law in the past" is not a winning argument in my book. I want the country of laws, period. If the previous admin ignored the law -prosecute, made a lasting example out of the fucks.

Too bad. Once one side goes off the rails in extreme manners, ya get what ya get. I don’t think most people can fathom where we are. IF Trump fights as dirty as they fought him, there’s a shit ton of people that will support it. Same as the TDS crowd supported the criminal Biden administration. Doesn’t anyone get it?

AD says

Sure, let everyone in including MS 13 and Tren de Araga gang members and given them legal status. Therefore that drops the number of illegal border crossings.

How many of those arrested in the Denver night club were allowed in by Birdbrain Biden ?

It's aiding and abetting gangs. RICO/mafia type stuff. Biden and Harris allowed it. So technically they should be charged.

And yes, people will sneak through the border under Trump, but the effort to stop it is obvious at this point. We have enough problems with some of our legal citizens. We don't need more problems coming here even legally with refugee status.

Also result speak. https://heyjackass.com/2025-total-shot-trend/ The hispanic gangs in Chicago are treading very lightly this year since Trump was elected. Hispanics are the most racists towards blacks and the gang territory. The threat of deportation matters and seems to be working in Chicago.

Browse around that site and Hispanic neighborhoods are massively low on homicides. I know most don't know Chicago, but Lower West side (my old neighborhood) and Little Village are where most of them live. Humboldt Park is Puerto Rican but some Mexicans live there along with Hermosa to the north.

WookieMan says

It's aiding and abetting gangs. RICO/mafia type stuff. Biden and Harris allowed it. So technically they should be charged.

Birdbrain Biden even said in the 2020 debates that he was going to open the border.

The Democrat cult is a racketeering organization as far as promoting anarcho-tyranny and Cloward Piven Strategy.

But how do you arrest a Soros judge or Soros prosecutor for promoting anarcho-tyranny when they are protected by qualified immunity ?

And they continue with virtue signaling how racists it is, and "not American" to allow an open border.

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I don't know the solution. But if you don't have a passport or original birth certificate, goodbye.

I also think SS cards should have photos on them you have to renew periodically. Pain in the ass? Yes, but it would prevent us from getting to this point. You don't have one of those 3 forms of ID, just one, you tell us where you want to go and we send you on your way. There's insanely simple ways to fix this. And no, a drivers license doesn't count.

Glock-n-Load says

RWSGFY says

"We now can ignore the law because they ignored the law in the past" is not a winning argument in my book. I want the country of laws, period. If the previous admin ignored the law -prosecute, made a lasting example out of the fucks.

Too bad. Once one side goes off the rails in extreme manners, ya get what ya get. I don’t think most people can fathom where we are. IF Trump fights as dirty as they fought him, there’s a shit ton of people that will support it. Same as the TDS crowd supported the criminal Biden administration. Doesn’t anyone get it?

Shit ton is vague. What it really means is hard core MAGA/TAKS base. Which he can't lose anyway. But the rest of the people who voted for him are close to "country of laws" stance than "killing on 5th Ave" stance and all this talk about ignoring courts and stuffing SCOTUS doesn't play well with them. And memes saying stuff like "Dubya and Obama deported millions and courts let them" work differently on these categories: where TAKS-suffering MAGA base sees "hypocricy" the "country of laws" crowd sees "so it's possible within legal framework".

This whole conversation is asinine. The guy can file due process legal work in El Salvador. He wasn't here legally. He gone.

I don't know why this thread hasn't just stopped at this point. If you want an MS-13 member that beats his girlfriend or wife bring him back and have him live in your home. Deal with the fallout from that. There are millionaires and billionaires bitching about him being deported. Bring him back and let him live with them. Oh wait, it's all bullshit. Media eats it up and makes up legal stuff they know nothing about and run with it.

DeficitHawk says

Citizens of the country also get due process. We are entitled a court hearing for crimes. Im not asking for anything different.

Illegal immigration is also Administrative, not just criminal.

If you sell liquor without a license, can the government shut you down before your hearing?

If you occupy a property without proof of ownership, can the government eject you before the hearing?

YUP.

Remember, they can get due process over a video call from anywhere in the world. I have no problem paying for it, either.

Probable Cause, too.

Another fun thing to keep in mind:

The same MSNBC/NPR guys who insist illegals can't be deported until a hearing....

... want the police to be able to Red Flag Law somebody just because there was a tip to 911 that said so-and-so was mentally unwell. Before any hearing is held, and the onus of having guns returned is proving you aren't nuts at a LATER hearing.

And that's a specifically enumerated right.

That's why the whole sudden concern with scrupulous, unbending due process is a dishonest one.

The rate that the illegals skip the immigration hearing is well over 90%, thus they abdicated their due process. If any of we citizens skip a hearing date we get a warrant for our arrest.

AD says

WookieMan says

It's aiding and abetting gangs. RICO/mafia type stuff. Biden and Harris allowed it. So technically they should be charged.

Birdbrain Biden even said in the 2020 debates that he was going to open the border.

The Democrat cult is a racketeering organization as far as promoting anarcho-tyranny and Cloward Piven Strategy.

But how do you arrest a Soros judge or Soros prosecutor for promoting anarcho-tyranny when they are protected by qualified immunity ?

And they continue with virtue signaling how racists it is, and "not American" to allow an open border.

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Emergency powers? If not then there really is no answer at this point. IMO

I’ll say it again @DeficitHawk is simply dishonest. Intellectually dishonest?

Intellectually dishonest means deliberately misrepresenting, omitting, or manipulating facts, arguments, or evidence to deceive or mislead others, often by refusing to apply the same critical rigor to one’s own beliefs as to others’ or by hiding a hidden agenda behind rationalizations. It involves a lack of integrity in pursuing or communicating ideas, where truth and fairness are sacrificed.

The corrupticrats brought in tens of millions of illegals with the express purpose of it being too big a problem to solve legally. They figured, "We'll make this problem so big, it will take extralegal measures to correct it, something our opponents won't have the nerve to do."

This is a game of chicken - "they" don't think that the people of this country will support a blatant one-time human rights violation to rectify the great evil that has taken place in this country during the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for "them", as well as @Deficithawk, they're wrong - it will be done. It will be terrible, and people will condemn it for decades afterwards, but this is the corner the American people have been backed into, and like a wounded feral animal, the reaction will be ferocious and terrifying.

It's time to take a page from Alinsky's book, "Look what you made me do!"

stereotomy says

They figured, "We'll make this problem so big, it will take extralegal measures to correct it, something our opponents won't have the nerve to do."

It's legal though. A lower federal court justice doesn't get to write law. He/she wasn't even voted for outside of Congressional approval. You put this vote to US citizens tomorrow it would be 90% applause for getting this guy out of here. He STILL can come back. Legally.

Until then enjoy the stay in El Salvador. At least he doesn't likely have to deal with a Maryland winter this year. Oh the horror. He's already a part of a massive gang. He'll do just fine there.

Or if he's tossed in jail, maybe El Salvador could eventually be a tourist destination. Having done Costa Rica and Belize, I'm sure there are some beautiful spots. If you think this is a bad thing, have a visit with your primary care physician. You might about to be having a stroke.

stereotomy says

The corrupticrats brought in tens of millions of illegals with the express purpose of it being too big a problem to solve legally. They figured, "We'll make this problem so big, it will take extralegal measures to correct it, something our opponents won't have the nerve to do."

This is a game of chicken - "they" don't think that the people of this country will support a blatant one-time human rights violation to rectify the great evil that has taken place in this country during the last 20 years.

Unfortunately for "them", as well as Deficithawk, they're wrong - it will be done. It will be terrible, and people will condemn it for decades afterwards, but this is the corner the American people have been backed into, and like a wounded feral animal, the reaction will be ferocious and terrifying.

It's time to take a page from Alinsky's book, "Look what you made me do!"

The real human rights violation is what our own government did to its citizens by forcing us to pay for our own demise as a serious nation.

WookieMan says

I don't know why this thread hasn't just stopped at this point.

Agreed.

I've said all I have to say. I dont think we will agree on this stuff.

DeficitHawk says

I've said all I have to say. I dont think we will agree on this stuff.

We don't have to agree. You vote your way, I vote my way. Assuming a fair election, my way is the majority.

HeadSet says

A more correct analogy would be while the homeowner was on vacation for two weeks, a local advocate for the poor gave a vagrant a lock pick, some groceries, and pointed him toward the vacationer's abode. When the vacationer returns the vagrant refuses to leave and the advocate brings in attorneys to press squatter's rights. All laws against breaking and entry are ignored while strict adherence and liberal determination is applied to squatter's rights.

And then the homeowner called the Democrat Sheriff's office twice a day for a week and got no response:

"We concentrate on real crimes, like murder, first!"
"Have you tried talking to him?"
"Only White Supremacists want to eject vagrants"
and "I actually read in Vox that vagrants are a Good Thiiiiiing!" (Sing Song Voice)

Finally, when the homeowner and other voters votes in a new sheriff months later...
"Why did you put up with it for so long if it was such a big deal?" - people who wanted to keep the old sheriff, and all the town newpapers.

Really, the playbook is getting tired