patrick.net

floki says

mortgage interests deductions are allowed because the interests were paid with POST tax money

No, mortgage deductions are a holdover from the times when all interest was deductible. The mortgage interest was kept deductible to encourage home ownership. If "POST tax" money was the issue, then credit card interest and personal loan interest would still be deductible.

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

You should have seen his housing announcement today. Prices will be going up.

He’s a builder, his friends are builders. Their business lives on asset inflation.

Want to make yourself and your friends rich beyond your wildest dreams? Simply get tons of assets under your control, preferably using OPM/Debt baby Debt, and then limit the supply to everyone else.

PROFITS TO THE MOOM BABY.

Patrick says

Booger says

Why don't you just leave California instead?

Been here since 1997, so most people I know are here.

It's kinda hard to go somewhere new where you don't know anyone.

All your friends are online bro. :)

Patrick says

Yes, the best solution is to increase supply, not demand.

Yes, increase supply of starter homes (difficult). But attack demand for overpriced homes by deporting illegals and cut off the easy money spigots.

HeadSet says

floki says

mortgage interests deductions are allowed because the interests were paid with POST tax money

No, mortgage deductions are a holdover from the times when all interest was deductible. The mortgage interest was kept deductible to encourage home ownership. If "POST tax" money was the issue, then credit card interest and personal loan interest would still be deductible.

My bad HeadSet, I assumed the encouragement part didn't need to be said but yes ! The post tax reason is another according to tax people I've dealt with.

GNL says

All your friends are online bro. :)

I enjoy the online chatting, but also meeting people in real life, which I do as often as I can.

CA is beautiful (can't beat nature plus climate, and wine) and had my work hard play hard decades there, but I have been trying to convince the rest of the immediate family to move. That being said, there aren't many states with low taxes, but have been eying NH. Savings would be tremendous and tax money not spent cannot be abused.

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-affordability-retirement-account-down-payment-b2897010.html

But anything that makes housing more expensive, like this proposal, is a bad idea.

At least we got foreclosures restarted!

HeadSet says

floki says

mortgage interests deductions are allowed because the interests were paid with POST tax money

No, mortgage deductions are a holdover from the times when all interest was deductible. The mortgage interest was kept deductible to encourage home ownership. If "POST tax" money was the issue, then credit card interest and personal loan interest would still be deductible.

Interest earned on savings accounts used to be free too - Nixon put an end to that.

mell says

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

RWSGFY says

The less options people get to fuck with their retirement plans the better off they will be when that retirement finally comes.

Yep, seems like every option suggested always comes to throwing more money at the industry to absorb.

So what? This is the socialism you all so despise. Suddenly it's a good thing just because of the lowest common denominator? There should be an option to take the money out at the minimum without penalties. I thought people here are against taxes, and the penalty is simply an enrichment scheme for the government to keep the ponzi going. Trump should go further and allow it for any/most reasons

What exactly is socialism here? In socialist countries you don't even have any kind of private retirement savings accounts - your taxes are taken from your salary and you get your pension when you reach the pension age. Have words lost all meaning?

Eric_Holder says

mell says

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

RWSGFY says

The less options people get to fuck with their retirement plans the better off they will be when that retirement finally comes.

Yep, seems like every option suggested always comes to throwing more money at the industry to absorb.

So what? This is the socialism you all so despise. Suddenly it's a good thing just because of the lowest common denominator? There should be an option to take the money out at the minimum without penalties. I thought people here are against taxes, and the penalty is simply an enrichment scheme for the government to keep the ponzi going. Trump should go further and allow it for any/most reasons

What exactly is socialism here? In socialist countries you don't even have any kind of private retirement savings accounts - your taxes are taken from your salary and you get your pension when you reach the pension age. Have words lost all meaning?

LOL, in a socialist country Patrick would still be going to work every day instead of agonizing over whether or not it was a mistake to contribute to 401k so much.

Eric_Holder says

mell says

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

RWSGFY says

The less options people get to fuck with their retirement plans the better off they will be when that retirement finally comes.

Yep, seems like every option suggested always comes to throwing more money at the industry to absorb.

So what? This is the socialism you all so despise. Suddenly it's a good thing just because of the lowest common denominator? There should be an option to take the money out at the minimum without penalties. I thought people here are against taxes, and the penalty is simply an enrichment scheme for the government to keep the ponzi going. Trump should go further and allow it for any/most reasons

What exactly is socialism here? In socialist countries you don't even have any kind of private retirement savings accounts - your taxes are taken from your salary and you get your pension when you reach the pension age. Have words lost all meaning?

Taking 10% penalty is socialism. Nothing more or less. Not different than taxing one energy form over another or a wealth tax. Btw. most social democratic countries in Europe have a similar system, you get a pension, e.g. ruerup pension or privatrente in Germany. And I would favor a temporary wealth tax (e.g. to balance budget) on billionaires anytime over penalizing regular working Americans over every withdrawal.

Patrick says

Though actually, it's already legal to borrow $50K against your 401(k) if your plan administrator agrees to allow it.

Reduces your pay though. Those are paid back out of your checks automatically per pay period. It's not like you just get the $50k and "have to be responsible" and pay it back. The employer does. So less income, so less to borrow on the loan even with a larger down payment as it's essentially financed through your work.

401k loans are more for lowering debt (lower interest) or updating your existing home as you won't be taking on the additional home loan to buy the place. They're useful, just not for buying a house.

mell says

Eric_Holder says

mell says

FortWayneHatesRealtors says

RWSGFY says

The less options people get to fuck with their retirement plans the better off they will be when that retirement finally comes.

Yep, seems like every option suggested always comes to throwing more money at the industry to absorb.

So what? This is the socialism you all so despise. Suddenly it's a good thing just because of the lowest common denominator? There should be an option to take the money out at the minimum without penalties. I thought people here are against taxes, and the penalty is simply an enrichment scheme for the government to keep the ponzi going. Trump should go further and allow it for any/most reasons

What exactly is socialism here? In socialist countries you don't even have any kind of private retirement savings accounts - your taxes are taken from your salary and you get your pension when you reach the pension age. Have words lost all meaning?

Taking 10% penalty is socialism. Nothing more or less. Not different than taxing one energy form over another or a wealth tax. Btw. most social democratic countries in Europe have a similar system, you get a pension, e.g. ruerup pension or privatrente in Germany. And I would favor a temporary wealth tax (e.g. to balance budget) on billionaires anytime over penalizing regular working Americans over every withdrawal.

If there is no friction for withdrawal from your 401k it becomes just another account (albeit with deferred but shittier taxation) and the temptation to raid it just becomes too great. And you are definitely misusing the word "socialism" here. Under socialism the money you pay into pension fund is gone and you only getting some of it back when you reach the old age or become disabled. We do have the same in SS/Medicare, but we do have private tax-advantaged pension savings options too. (Slipping into the Captain Obvious domain here, LOL).

mell says

CA is beautiful (can't beat nature plus climate, and wine) and had my work hard play hard decades there, but I have been trying to convince the rest of the immediate family to move. That being said, there aren't many states with low taxes, but have been eying NH. Savings would be tremendous and tax money not spent cannot be abused.

Thing is cheaper cost of living won’t stay that way. Even now it’s starting to even out. 4 years ago it was cheaper here, steadily climbing because of people moving with lots of money, and that drives up cost of living and it’s starting to become more like a blue state.

I think it’ll all even out in next 10. With distributed economy, and remote workers, you can’t have 100k houses and low cost utilities in one city but 1M and high cost utilities in another for long. It just evens out across the board.

Crossing fingers

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2026/01/16/trump-to-unveil-plan-allowing-401k-withdrawals-for-home-down-payments/

Yes, I sure hope this happens. I have selfish reasons, but I think it's also good for couples that want to buy a house to have babies in.

My only worry is that the new flow of money will drive up house prices to some degree, negating the benefit.

The real solution is to build more houses near where the jobs are.

Yeah we'll see the details next week.

But @Patrick, they're talking about only down payments though, a good step but not the full costs. Well we'll see.

Down payment assistance (which is really what this is) will spike prices in the short term. It will probably be neutral in the longer term as people become a lot more shy about gambling their own retirement money on FOMO feels.

Patrick says

My only worry is that the new flow of money will drive up house prices to some degree, negating the benefit.

That house price rise is a given.

floki says

Crossing fingers

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2026/01/16/trump-to-unveil-plan-allowing-401k-withdrawals-for-home-down-payments/

This is not even click worthy, 10% of what, average median 401(k) balances I believe is below 300K.
Current 401(k) Loan Rules for Home Purchases:
Lesser of 50% or $50K.
It’s fair to assume that all politicians throw nothing burgers at public, if not you, your opposition folks do!

If the house equity has to go right back into the 401(k) it would not help me with taxes at all.

I'd speculate that many younger home buyers get some help with the downpayments from families, especially on a first home. Maybe just enough help to get into one. For those that do not, this proposal just might be the difference between owning a home or not. It's supposed to be a tax and penalty free withdrawl as opposed to being a loan as is available today so no post-tax repayments taken out of their wages either. Overall, I think that's a good thing for those intent on buying one after having considered all other pros and cons.