patrick.net

dunnross says

No, that’s only obvious to ducks and pigs like you.

So now I am a pig. I guess it takes one to know one. Or maybe you are just an angry renter. I get it. I used to be an angry renter myself. Frustrated with the world. Looking at negative news with delight and ignoring any slight sign of positive news because it didn't fit into my angry renter world. Then it crashed, then I could afford it, then I bought. You should do the same.

dunnross says

Yes, but he cherry-picked the dates

He picked the peak price in CS and the most recent CS data available. That's the worst case scenario using CS numbers...

klarek, you have to admit you fit the angry renter stereotype to a T.

1) pissed off at homeowners...check
2) pissed off at anyone who has strategically defaulted...check
3) generally seem frustrated with the world...check
4) look at negative news with delight...check
5) ignoring any slight sign of positive news because it doesn't fit with your angry renter world view...check
6) try to convince others not to buy with the hope that it will help prices come down...check.

I'm not sure what other elements there are to an angry renter, but I'd bet you possess them too.

ch_tah says

klarek, you have to admit you fit the angry renter stereotype to a T.
1) pissed off at homeowners…check

2) pissed off at anyone who has strategically defaulted…check

3) generally seem frustrated with the world…check

4) look at negative news with delight…check

5) ignoring any slight sign of positive news because it doesn’t fit with your angry renter world view…check

6) try to convince others not to buy with the hope that it will help prices come down…check.
I’m not sure what other elements there are to an angry renter, but I’d bet you possess them too.

ch_tah says

klarek, you have to admit you fit the angry renter stereotype to a T.
1) pissed off at homeowners…check

2) pissed off at anyone who has strategically defaulted…check

3) generally seem frustrated with the world…check

4) look at negative news with delight…check

5) ignoring any slight sign of positive news because it doesn’t fit with your angry renter world view…check

6) try to convince others not to buy with the hope that it will help prices come down…check.
I’m not sure what other elements there are to an angry renter, but I’d bet you possess them too.

Same argument could be made for all you angry used-house-owner out there, as well:

1. pissed off at renters for not having their equity disappear overnight...check
2. pissed off at prudent savers for not buying and bidding up the price of their prized possessions...check
3. pissed off at fence-sitters for not jumping off their fences and propping up their open-bust of a housing market...check
4. look at even the tiniest spec of good news, no matter how ephemeral it is with their tongs hanging out...check.
5. try to convince others to buy no matter how ridiculously overpriced and not supported by any fundamentals.

Good old realtors pumping the news up the market to keep the balloon party going.

The way that article is written it is very biased toward a conclusion which is not necessarily supported by the data. But the word choices are very biased. I live in CA, still a bubble here and with budget problems this state has I'm expecting a lot more prices falling since government can't get their budgets balanced without increasing taxes.

Since when is RealtyTrac a 100% accurate source? They buy their data from other parties which is not guaranteed to be accurate representation.

After donating to red cross to help Japanese we are now thinking of investing into Japanese companies too.

We might invest into TM. Anyone has any specific recommendations on other companies out there? I think investing into companies that will handle buildings would be a wise choice at this point. TheOakMan any symbols you would recommend?

ch_tah says

klarek, you have to admit you fit the angry renter stereotype to a T.

Fitting the stereotype of the euphoric, status-upgraded debt-owner. You're no different than the fools who bought in 2005, patting themselves on their backs while speaking condescendingly to "bitter renters".

1) pissed off at homeowners…check

Nope.

2) pissed off at anyone who has strategically defaulted…check

I think they're deadbeats, but I'm not pissed at them until taxpayers have to foot the bill for their greed.

3) generally seem frustrated with the world…check

Wrong. Generalized statement is generalized. And dumb.

4) look at negative news with delight…check

A correcting bubble isn't negative, it's positive. Only delusional fools leaping into a bull trap would call that negative.

5) ignoring any slight sign of positive news because it doesn’t fit with your angry renter world view…check

I'm pretty patient. Positive news is fine if it's not the result of market manipulation. When retards fall for it and somebody points it out, the only rational way to ingest this is for said retards to assume that the realist hates good news.

6) try to convince others not to buy with the hope that it will help prices come down…check.

a) convince people not to buy an overpriced house to preserve future wealth
b) by convincing ten people to not buy now, I have forced prices downward

If you believe b) over a), then you're a certified fucking idiot.

I’m not sure what other elements there are to an angry renter, but I’d bet you possess them too.

I'll help you out: 7) not mathematically retarded

You can deny it all you want now, but your previous posts suggest otherwise. Actually, re-reading your post, you don't really deny the points except for #1.

ch_tah says

You can deny it all you want now, but your previous posts suggest otherwise. Actually, re-reading your post, you don’t really deny the points except for #1.

I figured a more thoughtful retort addressing each point would better explain how you're wrong than just a bland denial, but I have a tendency in life to overestimate an audience's intelligence. I should have known better and dumbed it down, considering you're using the tired "bitter renter" cliche. People like you lack any self-awareness.

klarek says

ch_tah says

You can deny it all you want now, but your previous posts suggest otherwise. Actually, re-reading your post, you don’t really deny the points except for #1.

I figured a more thoughtful retort addressing each point would better explain how you’re wrong than just a bland denial, but I have a tendency in life to overestimate an audience’s intelligence. I should have known better and dumbed it down, considering you’re using the tired “bitter renter” cliche. People like you lack any self-awareness.

You addressed each point, but didn't deny any except for #1. #2 taxpayers do foot the bill, so you are angry. #3 you just say is dumb, but it's probably true. #4 you spin it to be positive, but if you are rooting for our economy to go down, I would call that looking at negative news with delight. #5 you write off any positive news as manipulated, so you essentially ignore it all. #6 whenever someone asks about buying you say buying now would be stupid in hopes of convincing them not to buy.

In any event, no one said "bitter" renter. I said "angry" renter. If you had a nickel for every F-bomb you threw on this site, you'd be able to buy a very nice house right now, even at these "elevated" prices. As I said before, you fit the description of an angry renter well. Careful about getting angry about being called an angry renter, you might find yourself in a perpetual loop.

ch_tah says

You addressed each point, but didn’t deny any except for #1.

Your accusations about being frustrated with the world and with reality were ridiculous. Of course I deny them. Addressing them was an explanation WHY they were silly, not at all an admission that there's bitterness involved.

ch_tah says

#2 taxpayers do foot the bill, so you are angry.

Not necessarily. A lot of these loans to the banks were paid back, their lost capital will diminish their profits for years to come. I'm rather indifferent about this.

ch_tah says

#3 you just say is dumb, but it’s probably true

It was a really dumb remark, lacking context or a citation. I'm just living life like everybody else. The world treats me just fine.

ch_tah says

#4 you spin it to be positive, but if you are rooting for our economy to go down, I would call that looking at negative news with delight.

I want unemployment to decrease. I want real GDP amongst the middle class to rise. I want our country to not drown in debt. Rooting for undue increases in a bubbled real estate market is at best an obstacle to these goals and at worst an impediment. You just have an extremely simplistic view of what you believe "the economy" is, and where you expect it's measure of strength to be shown (in your supposed equity).

I believe houses for the most part are overpriced. You on the other hand made a snap decision to buy based on the so-sophisticated "I've waited too long" analysis, and are thus tying your expectations to a thoughtless purchase. Therefore based on my view, your decision, and your yardstick for economic improvement, you're pissed that housing prices are resuming their downward trajectory, which I told you they would. I don't take any delight in what was inevitable.

ch_tah says

#6 whenever someone asks about buying you say buying now would be stupid in hopes of convincing them not to buy.

I don't think I have said it like that, at least not since 2008. I say it's risky, that the market is a bull-trap, that prices have not bottomed at a fundamentally-supported level on their own, so there's no reason to believe they'll increase on their own. You dismiss these points, for whatever reason. Beyond the frustration of you not getting it, my only point would be to adequately warn somebody who has had sunshine blown up their ass by a realtor or other market cheerleader. I'd rather people not get screwed. Your implication that I'm trying to make prices fall is absolutely ridiculous and pathetic.

ch_tah says

If you had a nickel for every F-bomb you threw on this site, you’d be able to buy a very nice house right now, even at these “elevated” prices.

A nickel for every f-bomb, an f-bomb for every extremely asinine remark coming from folks such as yourself. I actually don't swear that often on these boards, once or twice here or there, but apparently it offends you. My bad.

ch_tah says

As I said before, you fit the description of an angry renter well. Careful about getting angry about being called an angry renter, you might find yourself in a perpetual loop.

Do you think that if I just bought without hesitation or thought I'll be swept away to the blissful world of equity, unicorns, and rainbows? Is that how it works?

A perma bull or A perma bear will always be right 50% of the time long term and more than 50% right short term depending on whether its a bubble or bust. Just like a broken clock is right two times a day. A perma Bear is right every contraction..doesn't make him a better predictor. You can judge a persons prediction ability by how good he is at prediction BOTH expansion and contraction.

Mr.Fantastic says

I don’t get the angry renter stereotype.
I’m a home owner, and I’m still pissed that tax payers have to pay the bills for deadbeats like CL who bought a house they could never hope to afford under normal circumstances.

Living in your parents' basement does not make you a homeowner.

There's a difference between angry renters and renters. Klarek seems to be an angry renter, pissed at the world, although he has a different tune for part of today. Everyone should be ticked that taxpayers have to bail out banks. However, I don't see the need to attack CL or others who are defaulting. That was their deal with the bank. Maybe the angry renter stereotype developed because you don't see many homeowners attacking defaulters; it just seems to be renters. You see plenty of angry responses by renters against homeowners too. How many times do you see homeowners complaining about renters or yelling at renters? Rarely, if ever. Stereotypes are usually based on fact - maybe look a little harder, and you'll see it.

I am an angry renter, if "angry renter" means the following:

1) I am pissed at the idiots and thieves who fueled the housing bubble, because it means I cannot buy property at a reasonable price at the point in my life in which I would like to buy property.

2) I am pissed at our government for bailing out these idiots and thieves, because it is a poor use of the very high amount of taxes my wife and I pay each year.

3) I am pissed at our government for making it a policy to keep the housing market inflated, because it is a poor allocation of resources generally (and see #1).

So yeah, I'm an angry renter.

(As a caveat, I am not angry at people for strategically defaulting, as that's the most sensible thing to do once the person is in that position.)

klarek says

LOL @ the new homeowner euphoria. Nothing feels as good as a 30 year debt obligation.

And nothing feels better than realizing that I am going to pay my house of in 15 years because its not more than I used to pay in rent and I was able to save 20% down for this place while renting. I'll be done paying in 15 years. Yes, I am very excited about that. I guess you feel great about having a lifetime rent obligation and being jerked around by landlords - "Mr. Landlord, my sink is stopped up, could you pleeeeze call a plumber??" - Done with that. I hated it. I used to be an angry renter because landlords always sucked. Had to move one time out of the "perfect house" only after a year because they had to sell. ARGH!! Makes you just furious. I actually admit that I have become bitter from renting. So I know how you guys feel believe it or not. And it was so frustrating to realize that I'll never own a house. That's what it seemed like in 2005. Luckily, the tables have turned. My savings account was growing and house prices came down...now we have met and STRIKE.

It's the time of renting that fuels my euphoria as a home owner. Despite the 30 year loan, believe it or not - I feel free!

Just talked to a remodeler, will remod the entire downstairs floor, new hardwood, new kitchen, new windows - My wife and I have such pent up demand for doing these kinds of things from years renting a dump and having to live with the house the way it was (it was necessary...to save up the 20%, gotta sacrifice sometimes when you don't have rich parents)

ch_tah says

Living in your parents’ basement does not make you a homeowner.

This was a common statement dribbled up by RE vested parties beginning and during the bubble which among other things led to the 'greatest recession' and a near meltdown of our nations economy.

In another words, more people should have stayed in their parents house and not purchased and inflated prices so carelessly. We would not be this mess today.

Nomograph says

Move out of your parents house and maybe you’ll understand.

The world is full of pimps and hustlers!

SubOink says

I guess you feel great about having a lifetime rent obligation and being jerked around by landlords - “Mr. Landlord, my sink is stopped up, could you pleeeeze call a plumber??” - Done with that. I hated it.

I guess you prefer footing the bill yourself for repairs, taking time off of work, etc. Cool, but don't fool yourself or attempt to fool others into thinking that you've somehow achieved a less stressful way of living. Responsibility does not translate into less stress. You sound like you're making up reasons for owning when you toss out those lines and it makes me think you bought without understanding the actual merits of home ownership. That, along with "now is the time to buy," as you said above sounds like a little realtor got to your ear and filled your tiny brain with all sorts of empty, false propaganda.

I never said I was a renter for life. I've owned before and will own again. I look at people that pride themselves on ownership with pity. They really don't know what it means or gave any significant analytical thought into the largest purchase in their life. Yet thanks partly to the real estate propaganda machine, they feel euphoric and part of an elevated class, all for signing their name to a bunch of forms.

By your statement above that "nobody is overpaying" based on the list of vague and meaningless market descriptions you offer, it could easily be said by that same justification that nobody was overpaying at the peak of the housing bubble.

SubOink says

It’s the time of renting that fuels my euphoria as a home owner. Despite the 30 year loan, believe it or not - I feel free!

That's exactly how the banks want you to feel. Whatever floats your boat.

deep down everyone here know that owning is preferred to renting. (Why else are you here?)

so nobody is buying this stuff about the newfound freedoms you have with renting.

toothfairy says

deep down everyone here know that owning is preferred to renting. (Why else are you here?)

so nobody is buying this stuff about the newfound freedoms you have with renting.

Both are perfectly viable options. Benefits of renting are risk mitigation and flexibility. The only benefits suboink could say about owning was the freedom to pay for a plumber himself and the freedom of a 30 year debt obligation.

I wasn't knocking home ownership in general - as I said I've owned before and will again - just the stupid lies people believe about why they should own. I find the abundant thoughtlessness that people apply to the biggest purchase of their life absolutely sickening.

thomas.wong1986 says

ch_tah says

Living in your parents’ basement does not make you a homeowner.

This was a common statement dribbled up by RE vested parties beginning and during the bubble which among other things led to the ‘greatest recession’ and a near meltdown of our nations economy.
In another words, more people should have stayed in their parents house and not purchased and inflated prices so carelessly. We would not be this mess today.

Totally agree that more people should have lived in their parents' house. BUT, they shouldn't call themselves homeowners.

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?

I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It's not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

edit: Not to compare renters to a little kid in a demeaning way, but in some ways they are similar. When a kid wants to buy something he needs to ask his parents for money. When you grow up, you can buy it on your own, but it also comes with the responsibility of a job, etc. Sure, when you are renting, you can call up someone to ask them to take care of it, but when you own you have the ability and the responsibility to do it yourself. It's a nice freedom to have.

ch_tah says

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?
I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It’s not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

the only benefit is if it is cheaper to own than rent.

Right now ownership is way more expensive than rent which is why most people aren't buying.

ChrisLA says

ch_tah says

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?

I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It’s not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

the only benefit is if it is cheaper to own than rent.
Right now ownership is way more expensive than rent which is why most people aren’t buying.

Really, that's the only benefit of owning versus renting in your view?

ChrisLA says

ch_tah says

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?

I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It’s not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

the only benefit is if it is cheaper to own than rent.
Right now ownership is way more expensive than rent which is why most people aren’t buying.

In other words people want to buy but they can't afford to, or banks don't want to loan that kind of money to the eager ones.

klarek says

I guess you prefer footing the bill yourself for repairs, taking time off of work, etc. Cool, but don’t fool yourself or attempt to fool others into thinking that you’ve somehow achieved a less stressful way of living. Responsibility does not translate into less stress.

Footing the bills is not causing me stress. What is causing me stress is when things don't get taken care of because a landlord stalls and sends over 4 workers to get estimates all on my time - not sure where you're time saving idea comes in. I have wasted SO much time by being at the renter house and waiting for the landlord to make a decision to fix something and then ultimately getting the cheapest guy on the block to fix it. I then, had to live with it. I am glad to pay for it myself and get things done the right way, and FAST.

I find it a huge advantage despite paying for it. Hey, life costs money. You go out to eat, costs money, put gas in your car, costs money. You own a home that you enjoy, costs money. Not a groundbreaking concept really.

But when you are renting, you are at the mercy of somebody else. Mostly, somebody else that looks at the home as an investment. Somebody that cares about the return of the investment. You live in that investment, except ...its not your investment - but you are paying for it regardless.

I'd rather pay for the repairs than somebody else's mortgage.

I am not the one that is brainwashed - you are!

klarek says

SubOink says

It’s the time of renting that fuels my euphoria as a home owner. Despite the 30 year loan, believe it or not - I feel free!

That’s exactly how the banks want you to feel. Whatever floats your boat.

Moot point. The banks don't give a crap about how we feel. They just want their money. They don't care if you feel imprisoned by a mortgage or free because you own a house. They could care less.

I could also say...landlords want you to feel like renting is the way to go. After all, that's how they make their money. My last landlord paid $230k for the house 20 years ago. I have paid him $140k in 5 years in rent and btw, this was the cheapest house in this neighborhood I could find. Right now, most houses rent for more than that - So, ooo...I had a deal!! I paid his half of his house off. I feel very good about that. NOT.

bubblesitter says

ChrisLA says

ch_tah says

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?
I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It’s not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

the only benefit is if it is cheaper to own than rent.

Right now ownership is way more expensive than rent which is why most people aren’t buying.

In other words people want to buy but they can’t afford to, or banks don’t want to loan that kind of money to the eager ones.

I think thats the right way to put it. Poor are always eager to take on debt frivolously, and banks are slowly returning to making prudent loans they know they'll get back because government isn't going to be backing stupid loans any more, at least not to the same extend as before.

ChrisLA says

Poor are always eager to take on debt frivolously, and banks are slowly returning to making prudent loans they know they’ll get back because government isn’t going to be backing stupid loans any more, at least not to the same extend as before.

The government didn't back those loans--they were packaged into MBS and sold to investors. It was Wall Street that was backing them, in effect.

ch_tah says

So then what are the benefits of owning, Klarek?

Owning for the long term in a market with normal appreciation without sucking out the equity creates an overall lower cost of living for the owner. This can be traded at some future time for a profit on the investment's appreciation, plus earning back the dollars paid in principal.

Misconceptions about the benefits of owning center around retarded, gobbled-up propaganda like "having to call my landlord to fix things". Any renter ought to have a contract with the landlord stipulating that essential repairs be made with no hesitation. If I call my landlord about a clogged gutter, he's there within a day with a ladder. Other stupid remarks made by euphoric new owners center around "rent is throwing money away", which is utterly false since like a mortgage you are paying for the roof over your head. There are trade-offs for renting and owning, which largely center around the time spent at each. Add into it the current risks involved with owning, and you come off like a fresh victim of NAr's bullshit campaign by mocking people who rent, not having a single clue what you're talking about or doing, just like the fools that bought into the housing bubble.

I happen to agree with suboink that being able to handle issues yourself is a good thing. Yes, it stinks that you are the one on the hook for the expenses, but the ability to make these decisions is a positive. It’s not enough of a positive to go overpay by $100k, but it is one of the benefits of owning.

Like I said, that's great if you feel that way, but it smells like a really desperate attempt to talk up home ownership when you make expensive repairs sound like an asset. Do you also enjoy making decisions about whether to replace the transmission on your car? Is that positive too?

edit: Not to compare renters to a little kid in a demeaning way, but in some ways they are similar. When a kid wants to buy something he needs to ask his parents for money. When you grow up, you can buy it on your own, but it also comes with the responsibility of a job, etc. Sure, when you are renting, you can call up someone to ask them to take care of it, but when you own you have the ability and the responsibility to do it yourself. It’s a nice freedom to have.

That is the dumbest analogy I've heard this week. I'm perfectly entitled to repair and maintain my landlord's house. You're celebrating the costs of repairs while playing "grown-up". I thought that was a game that only children played.

SubOink says

Footing the bills is not causing me stress.

No shit, you just bought the house. You're really hitting the joys of ownership out of the park today.

What is causing me stress is when things don’t get taken care of because a landlord stalls and sends over 4 workers to get estimates all on my time - not sure where you’re time saving idea comes in. I have wasted SO much time by being at the renter house and waiting for the landlord to make a decision to fix something and then ultimately getting the cheapest guy on the block to fix it. I then, had to live with it. I am glad to pay for it myself and get things done the right way, and FAST.

Which is why you include a provision in your rent agreement. I doubt given your flippant and careless attitude towards buying that you did any such thing. Or if it was in the lease, you never bothered to read it.

But when you are renting, you are at the mercy of somebody else. Mostly, somebody else that looks at the home as an investment. Somebody that cares about the return of the investment. You live in that investment, except …its not your investment - but you are paying for it regardless.

You're at the mercy of the IRS, your municipality and tax collection office, your HOA, and not least of all your mortgage company which can take your house from you for missed payments just like my landlord can kick me out of mine. Oh, and that mortgage company most certainly looks at your loan as an investment.

I’d rather pay for the repairs than somebody else’s mortgage.

More realtor-speak. It's people like you that help reinforce realtor sentiment that the populace is stupid, easily manipulated, and readily consuming their garbage propaganda. Thanks to you, some poor guy out there looking to buy a house is being fed a line of insulting bullshit by a realtor who watched you gobble up the same load with a smile.

I am not the one that is brainwashed - you are!

Sure, keep telling yourself that.

SubOink says

So, ooo…I had a deal!! I paid his half of his house off. I feel very good about that. NOT.

You were paying for a place to live. Who cares where the money went? You think that's not at all comparable to buying a house and then paying the equivalent amount in interest to the banks?

Why have all these lessons come about over the past five years, yet new homeowners are even dumber than the ones of past? FFS, they've resorted to promoting the joy of repairs, maintenance, and a 30 year debt obligation. If that doesn't wreak of insecurity and desperation to justify the biggest purchase in their life made on a whim at the behest of a malignant conglomerate that spoon-fed them mindless propaganda, I don't know else would.

Economics 101.

Rent (=,) Mortgage interest + property tax + maintenance + insurance + etc... - tax deduction +/- equity. I wonder we have millions of people who don't know how to put calculator at work make the biggest decision of their lives.

I someone is still confused, if there is no at least 2 to 3% home price appreciation YOY it is much much worse then renting. Put that calculator to work.

Klarek,
So the only benefit you see of owning is that in the long-term you may have a lower cost of living? That is one benefit. You don't value the security or freedom of owning your own place? As a former owner, you didn't enjoy saying this is my home and knowing that as long as you paid your bills, no one was going to tell you how long you could stay there? You didn't ever have the feeling, this is mine. I'm not talking about the silly argument of painting the walls or crap like that, but just the feeling of knowing as long as you fulfill your obligations, this is YOUR place. Maybe it's a personal thing and maybe the feeling wears off in time, but I personally enjoy knowing that the place is ours. I like being able to tell my kids, we're "home" without thinking to myself "sort-of."

As for the made-up stuff in your comments. I've never mocked any renters. This again goes towards your "angry renter" status. You always make it out that others are picking on you for being a renter, when it's just not true. As for my "dumb" analogy, I don't think you are correct. Maybe you have a special contract with your landlord, but you typically are not allowed to make significant changes to a house you are renting. Yes, if you clog the toilet, you can call someone if needed. But what about an electrical upgrade to make your house safer? And, I'm not celebrating the cost of repairs; I enjoy the freedom. I wouldn't like having to pay for a transmission, but if it meant I didn't have to ask mommy and daddy for the keys each time, I'm glad I purchased the car. There's pros and cons to each. You can be happy being a renter; there's nothing wrong with it, and there are plenty of benefits. The same can be said about owning a house.

NJ says

I am an angry renter, if “angry renter” means the following:

1) I am pissed at the idiots and thieves who fueled the housing bubble, because it means I cannot buy property at a reasonable price at the point in my life in which I would like to buy property.

2) I am pissed at our government for bailing out these idiots and thieves, because it is a poor use of the very high amount of taxes my wife and I pay each year.

3) I am pissed at our government for making it a policy to keep the housing market inflated, because it is a poor allocation of resources generally (and see #1).

So yeah, I’m an angry renter.

(As a caveat, I am not angry at people for strategically defaulting, as that’s the most sensible thing to do once the person is in that position.)

nice well put. This is the basis for my anger also.

klarek says

You were paying for a place to live. Who cares where the money went? You think that’s not at all comparable to buying a house and then paying the equivalent amount in interest to the banks?

Why have all these lessons come about over the past five years, yet new homeowners are even dumber than the ones of past? FFS, they’ve resorted to promoting the joy of repairs, maintenance, and a 30 year debt obligation. If that doesn’t wreak of insecurity and desperation to justify the biggest purchase in their life made on a whim at the behest of a malignant conglomerate that spoon-fed them mindless propaganda, I don’t know else would.

Awesome!

Cheetah, homeownership can certainly be a nice feeling, but others may like the nice feeling of being moveable and not beholden to a mortgage.

We've moved three times now for job promotions--all across the country--and we'd be financially screwed if we had paid reallywhore commissions and transaction costs n' thangs to buy a house three times. Plus the loss of promotions and future career growth if we *didn't* move.

In theory, you never own a house in full, anyway. Gov't will tax you on property until you die. Kinda means they will take your house if you don't pay--which rhymes with renting and paying a mortgage. We still plan to buy shortly--but just sayin'.

So I just saw the same commercial now 4 or 5 times this morning on the TV for online foreclosure auctions. "If you can click with a mouse, you can buy a house," or something dumb like that. I guess this means foreclosures are going to be the new get-broke-quick scam for all the uneducated masses?

My anger comes from watching since "awakening" in 04/05 to the stupidity and craziness of a system that really doesn't seem to be working for many, yet is still blindly supported, and still seems alive and well.

Crazy is a good word for it IMO.

Phillistine, I completely agree with you. It makes no sense to buy if you are going to move. That's definitely a negative to owning. Yes, you always pay taxes, but that's pretty much true for everything, and as long as you pay those taxes, the gov't is not going to be asking you to move any time soon. In CA, as long as prop 13 holds, time and inflation make those taxes shrink significantly.

ch_tah says

dunnross

Renters should be angry at the gov-t for throwing and wasting so much of the tax payer's money on supporting the housing market, and propping up prices, even though, this, in fact, is very bad for the economy. Renters should not be angry at homeowners, because, by defaulting, homeowners are actually helping the economy get back on its feet. The lower house prices go, and the more debt is expunged, the better this will eventually be for the economy. This will happen, eventually, but all the govt intervention is just delaying the recovery, not helping it at all.

Mr.Fantastic says

ChrisLA is talking about the government’s purchasing of MBS from 2008-2010 to keep interest rates low, to the tune of $1.25 trillion. In fact, the government was using our tax dollars to become the biggest purchaser of MBS for 3 years

I'm not sure why I'm even answering you, but just for the record, Chris was saying that the banks took on bad loans because the government was "backing" them. The bad loans were made prior to 2008-2010, so there was no government backing of them. It was, in fact, Wall St.