patrick.net

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Reading the secession letter, I find it hard to believe that anyone could argue slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War. But, I'm frequently surprised...

NuttBoxer says

So were the Founding Fathers, by definition...

Yes, but do you hold betraying England on the same level as betraying America?

In any case, the American revolution was far more justifiable than the South's treason.

CBOEtrader says

Slavery would have ended on its own, albeit slower in the south where it was a larger part of the economy.

Terrorism would end on its own, but how many American lives are you willing to sacrifice in the meantime? All rapists stop raping eventually. After all, they eventually die. Does that mean the police should do nothing to stop rapists?

The life of a single slave is worth more than the lives of all slavers. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slavers are the worst criminals.

CBOEtrader says

The Civil War was fought to free the slaves is about as accurate as Operation Iraqi Freedom was about muslim women's rights.

That's bullshit. The conservative right always tries to rewrite history to state that the Civil War was fought for any reason other than over slavery. The newspapers of the time clearly state that slavery is unequivocally the reason for the South fighting the war. Do you really want me to humiliate you with the countless examples of this?

NuttBoxer says

Once again, Dan has proven himself illiterate when it comes to history. Lincoln has multiple recorded speeches stating the war had NOTHING to do with slavery. Slavery was a blip on the radar of this country compared to say, Africa, where is it still widely practiced.

Another revisionist. Come on, want to get into an evidence war with me?

NuttBoxer says

Dan, you would make Benedict Arnold proud.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

- Declaration of Independence

What hypocrisy! First of all, the above quote does not justify the South's treason. Second, it does justify the North kicking the South's ass since the "safety and happiness" of the slaves justifies "abolishing" the governments of the South. Third, it would justify a slave revolt killing off all your ancestors before your great grandparents were born. Finally, you are making a lame ass poisoning the well argument. That's a sign of a very weak position.

But hey, if you are a complete hypocrite, then you must support a violent uprising against our current government. And, of course, you must also support Snowden and Manning release of information relevant to the secret actions of the government. I mean, if you didn't, that would be utter hypocrisy. So go on and praise Snowden and Manning.

It's really amazing how far the conservative right will take their lies. They are ridiculous as their cousins, the conservative left.

Quigley says

Germany was a haven for Jews for centuries. Might be the higher intelligence bred into the population as Jews intermixed with Germans. I like to think I might have Jewish ancestors.

If you want to know, do the 23 and me thing. It's scarily accurate about Jewish ancestry. My maternal grandfather was Jewish, and they pegged me at 25.6% Jewish.

Dan8267 says

The life of a single slave is worth more than the lives of all slavers. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slavers are the worst criminals.

Dan8267 says

What hypocrisy! First of all, the above quote does not justify the South's treason. Second, it does justify the North kicking the South's ass since the "safety and happiness" of the slaves justifies "abolishing" the governments of the South.

You you think GB should have attacked us in1840? What about the dozens of other countries that still had slaves at the time of the civil war? As gross as slavery was, war is worse. Slavery does not justify war. Especially when slavery would be gone from the entire civilized world within 50 years.

Also, i really thought you'd have learned this by now, no war is fought for human rights. Ever. It is always about money/power. The north invaded the south for money/power. They were disproportionately dumping the tax burden on the south and reaping the benefits in the north. The north didnt want their honey-pot to walk away.

Dan8267 says

Terrorism would end on its own, but how many American lives are you willing to sacrifice in the meantime?

Terrorism would end on its own if we stopped bombing people and arming/funding warlords. Doing nothing would be far more effective and morally superior than bombing the entire world.

Dan8267 says

So go on and praise Snowden and Manning.

they are both heroes, imho.

CBOEtrader says

Terrorism would end on its own if we stopped bombing people and arming/funding warlords. Doing nothing would be far more effective and morally superior than bombing the entire world.

Isn't that exactly what Obama did that led to the blitzkrieg of ISIS taking over major cities building their caliphate? It was really "morally superior" to sit back and do nothing while ISIS was committing genocide preying on vulnerable religious minority groups and destroying ancient archaeological sites?

And don't most of the terrorists and warlords use Russian and Chinese weapons like the AK47 that is flooded all over the 3rd world?

rando says

they pegged me at 25.6% Jewish.

Does that mean you pump 74.4% of your gas?

Jews don't pump gas?

CBOEtrader says

you think GB should have attacked us in1840?

Straw man argument. I think the North was right to fight the South to end slavery for the exact same reason it would be right today for the U.S. military to take out a slaver regime.

CBOEtrader says

As gross as slavery was, war is worse.

Are you saying that you would not fight a war to prevent you and your family from being made slaves? I highly doubt that you would throw down your arms and let Mohamed take your daughter as a slave.

There are legitimate causes for war. Stopping slavery and genocide are two of them.

CBOEtrader says

Also, i really thought you'd have learned this by now, no war is fought for human rights. Ever. It is always about money/power.

Human rights require power. Are you saying that WWII and the American Revolution were not justified? I'll give you that most of America's military actions aren't justified, but ending slavery in America wasn't one of these unjustified actions.

CBOEtrader says

they are both heroes, imho.

Tell that to everyone on the conservative right including every Republican in Congress.

rando says

Jews don't pump gas?

I heard that stereotype on Howard Stern back in the 1990s. Stern had a lot of funny bits pushing the envelope at the time. I wonder if you could do a show like his today.

www.youtube.com/embed/yIC7-vJ0PWk

NuttBoxer says

Based on...

Based on the fact that the statues were designed and built to celebrate people who fought a war over state's rights to own slaves if they so wanted. They were appropriate for the population of the south at the time. The confederate flag was used by various people to fight the civil rights movement. It's good to remember, but it's not always good to celebrate everything that people celebrated 150 yrs ago. There are a few things today that we universally find morally abhorrent. Our statues should reflect current values as well as honor our history. I don't believe that those confederate statues reflect our current values.

socal2 says

ISIS tears down statues and tries to erase "pre-Islamic" history too.

Dan8267 says

rando says

Jews don't pump gas?

I heard that stereotype on Howard Stern back in the 1990s. Stern had a lot of funny bits pushing the envelope at the time. I wonder if you could do a show like his today.

www.youtube.com/embed/yIC7-vJ0PWk

Everything is racist and offensive now, but I always find it strange when people can't discern a Jew from a white person.

Guess which one is Trump? Ther's even a wall LOL!
Mike Judge at 1:23

www.youtube.com/embed/ocJ1GTnmO-w

Wut duz that even mean?

Noboday gave a shit about Hillary's crimes, because they don't even know why in the helll people are yelling about peopel talking to people on the otherside of the world when for the last 20 years all they have heard. This is a Global Ecconomy. That's really the hard truth of it. That was why nodody wanted to get worked up over Hillary whether the accusations were true or not, that was no different than what YOUR voters expect in a President. You're just bitching about Trump talking to somebody in the world doesn't translate to any moral law broken in the majority of voters.

But again if the Idiots in Washington have more than their Sniveling petty ass whining they should bringing or sit down and shut up.

I hope ya'll got more than Maxine Waters, a Liberal in a James Brown wig isn't selling it without proof.

Dont they have transcripts of all meetings in the whitehouse? Its not like they met in the basement cigar room of mar lago.

This anonymous tattling shit has proven itself to be very weak.

Who knew it would be the ones screeching about "McCarthyism, never again" for decades, would happily indulge in it. Not against the USSR, which many Democrats frequently apologized for, but the Republic of Russia.

Also, your chart has no evidence. What is that dialogue blurb and the dollar sign specifically?

1. Here is a chart with arrows and unnamed, unspecific quid pro quo
2. ?????
3. Therefore Trump is guilty of being a Putin Stooge.

We definitely need an FBI investigation into why it took Podesta 5 years late to file disclosures about receiving money from the same pro-Russia group that paid Manafort.

Who from Hillary's Team met the Russian Ambassador, and what did they discuss? Investigation NOW!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/13/hillary-clintons-team-met-russian-ambassador-says-kremlin-spokesman/

Trump is the POTUS. Hillary is just a cu.t.

We share info on terrorists all the time, president has a right to discuss it as he finds need

I'm keeping an eye (and ear) on you guys.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-classified-information-russia-intel-white-house-minister-ambassador-lavrov-kislyak-isis-a7737706.html

"Mr Trump went off script and began describing details about an Isis threat related to the use of laptop computers on aircraft.

It said that for anyone in government discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Mr Trump has authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law."

If true, this seems foolish, but its not illegal. Also, we arent being told the entire story. It's impossible to judge this shit from our perspective.

It would seem to strengthen the argument for an investigation into trump though...but im no lawyer

You could do similar graphs with almost all plutocrats in the US toward many other nations.
Clinton Saudis? you bet.
I get that Trump is a clown and probably has some business links to Russia, but this is just propaganda.

Fake news, here is the real story on fox

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/15/white-house-denies-report-trump-revealed-classified-info-about-isis-to-russians.html

You boys try so hard

He is a mendacious cunt, but he is OUR mendacious cunt.

FortWayne says

Fake news, here is the real story on fox

Phew, thank goodness. Don't worry Brietbart will cook something up too. I understand they have connections. Maybe that's why the WH is channeling it through Fox ? Too obvious if it comes through Brietbart.

It sounds like the same story. One side is in hysterics, the other side saying dindu nuffin.

This is madness. Is sharing information about an ISIS terrorist plan confidential or not? Should be a simple yes/no answer.

We put up with Bushtard and Obummer for 16 years, we can deal with Trumps for 4-8 depending on what kind of crazy the dems push next.

Can we just elect rand paul next time please?

I think Trump has shown he doesnt want to drain the swamp how he promised. Unfortunately I still cant think of many politicians I'd rather have in that office. Neocons are evil. The moderate left are just neocons w better PR. Socialism is the wrong path.

Rand Paul is the only option remaining.

Love how the WH pulled the transcript of the meeting from internal wires immediately after the consults with NSA and CIA.

Every time I see junior engineers bragging or dishing secret product info in the office it all boils down to them wanting to seem important, be in the know, and be liked.

Remind you of anyone?

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/05/trump-mcmaster-white-house-denies-washington-post-report-classified-russians

This goes straight to the point. "At no time were intelligence sources or methods discussed, and the president did not discuss any military operations that were not already publicly known." Mcmaster.

YET...

"The Post story did not ever say that "intelligence sources or methods" were discussed, but that Trump revealed tightly held secret information that was provided by a US partner, and that the revelation would likely allow Russian intelligence agents to determine intelligence sources and methods independently."

So, again, we have no credible source of information in the MSM... Do you see why Alex Jones gets so many listeners? Which spin do you believe?

CBOEtrader says

It sounds like the same story. One side is in hysterics, the other side saying dindu nuffin.

This is madness. Is sharing information about an ISIS terrorist plan confidential or not? Should be a simple yes/no answer.

It's confidential if you divulge confidential information. It's especially bad if you give it to opposing states who can unpack the information to likely "sources and means".

Trump should take over the press briefings to clear this up. ;)

The WH has zero credibility. They burnt it all away already.

Rew says

The WH has zero credibility. They burnt it all away already.

Neither does the MSM

I'm with Jazz. Loose lips sink ships. Guy cannot even get out of his own way to capitalize on his party stranglehold. Poor GOP. They must be so sad right now. Bet you McCain is ready to call him a traitor.

Rew says

Loose lips sink ships.

Ah, you've convicted him based on reports from the same press that never gives him a moment of objective reporting. Good idea.

Wall not Fence!
Fuck Trump. Go Pence.

(giggle)