patrick.net

You can't.... just as long as you remain vague and do not ever mention which programs you will cut. That's when problems arise.

EncinoMan says

The part of the Republican party that did refuse this budget, especially Ron Paul, these are the true conservatives who are making tough choices and fighting for this nation. It isn't the Rinos or the Dems.

Oh, yes. Cutting the top tax rate down to 28%. That is definitely one of those "tough choices", isn't it?

ihateyou2 says

Obama will never veto anything that can get through at this point. There's too much at risk and he's not an idiot

It's not a bluff. Reid plan is best Republicans are going to get. Treasury is set to delay Social Security checks to millions. Those voters will remember the Tea Party's fighting for the richest 0.01% in 2012.

Kick that Can! Kick that can!

The ratings agencies have said that if Boehner's bill becomes law, we will be downgraded. It's the Senate Dems who are trying to protect the credit rating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RXNrtUU-TQ&feature=player_embedded

Move on. Nothing to see here. It's just another typical day where Rethuglicans continue to destroy this country.

I'm the Credit rating Boogeyman. I eat Entitlements and destroy Jobs, my only Nemesis is the Debt ceiling.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jvolstad/sets/72157600399996410/

I loved Hawaii. And the fresh fruit treats they had on the island. Maybe I'll go again to see the Realtors in jail. A new tourist attraction.

Japan's debt to gdp is 225% or so and has been for a decade without defaulting

Japan's debt to gdp is 225% or so and has been for a decade without defaulting

true, but whenever we consider debt it is very important to consider the creditor as much as the debtor

93% of japans debt is owned internally.. that is pretty amazing

in the US about 1/3 of our debt is internally owned, that is a problem

because the Japaneses debt is internally owned the money doesnt really escape the economy, and consequentially the default risk is low, as a result interest rates remain very low, and japan probably still pays less in interest than the US,

high governmental debt, coupled with internal ownership is still and issue, its not a default issue, its a generational / ownership society problem, japan has a saving culture and as a result the public sector is ravenous for its government debt, sadly the US does not have a saving culture

also your analysis should include public debt which is just as important as government debt and shouldn't be ignored.
i would advise you to add the numbers again minus internally held govt and public debt compared to GDP to determine a more accurate default risk.

liars and thieves don't confess unless outcome of confessing is far better than punishment that will ensue void of confession.

Just picked up some more oz's - SAE's for spot. Excellent deal considering I didn't have to pay for shipping, a handful of them were sweet proof coins and/or already graded MS69 or 70.

Don't think my co-worker actually knew what he had :)

congratulations, exploiting your colleague for fun and profit.

Now that's something worth boasting for!

greeks are like CA, paid people not to work. thats where we are heading.

EncinoMan says

greeks are like CA, paid people not to work. thats where we are heading.

Canadians? Huh?

There is only one risk to default, and that's the ability to pay.

In most countries, the risk is zero, since they can print their own debt repayments.

Greece is at a bigger risk of default than japan, but the basic claim about 150% debt to gdp is demonstrably untrue

They don't. No republicans will vote for it, so its dead in the water.

Eventually the Democrats will suck it up and accept whatever boehner can get through the house, because they're too pragmatic to accept the consequences of hitting the debt ceiling

Since boehners bill doesn't really do anything anyway, I figure its the best outcome for now. Maybe after Obama is re elected we can fix entitlements and defense spending.

And yes, he will be re elected because the gop doesn't have a credible candidate. The best they can hope for is a Republican john Kerry.

Kevin says

Maybe after Obama is re elected

On Mars in another dimension.

yeah, not going to happen. propaganda and nothing more.

typical fearmongering just like Bush and jsut like Obama.

P.S. Changed from EncinoMan.

I do not see enough fundamentals for a depression. Not that we as a nation don't deserve one, we've been living on credit for a very long time.

Harry Reid should have brought up the bill under budget reconcillation so that only 51 votes are needed to pass the bill and the Repuiblicans can't fillibuster.

So then why do Socialist European countires all have lower unemployment than the U.S.? Switzerland's unemployment rate is less than 4%.

HousingWatcher says

So then why do Socialist European countires all have lower unemployment than the U.S.? Switzerland's unemployment rate is less than 4%.

Because Switzerland isn't wasting a trillion dollars a year on occupying the world.

they all have very small economies and they are small countries too, aren't leading the world in anything. you want 0 unemployment for a bit, hire everyone to dig ditches and work for the government filing useless paperwork.

Getting a society where population is 300+ million is a lot harder than some tiny little place like Switzerland. You can go to the African tribe and it will be 100% employment in pure communism. It's a model that simply doesn't scale.

The thing that really disappoints me is there is NOTHING that is progressive in the Reid bill or the likely compromise.

Could the deal include *ONE* bone for progressives. Raise the tax on billionaires by .05%. Something. No, of course not. They lack the stomach for requiring even a symbolic tax increase.

No, all they seemed to have achieved is argue about the size of the GOTP demands they will surrender to. All the debate seems to center on moving around the yardsticks now and on when we are going to repeat this particular crazy act.

Ok then, tell me how Socialist Australia has 4.9% unemployment. Certainly they are not a small country.

credit is not an evil monster, but it needs to be paid back. And liberals and rinos only know how to hand money out with absolutely no plan of paying it back.

Thats how it works, they screw the future generations by loading them with more debt on hand outs today.

ok tell me how Communist China was letting millions starve until they moved to Capitalism, how Soviets collapsed because they ran out of money and are now trying to be Capitalist. How are Greeks unable to get their finances in order with socialist redistribution programs?

There are plenty of examples where large scale countries fail when they have too much socialist mentality.

And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles.

Soviets starved because the dictators running the system found starvation useful to keep the peasants in line.

Fascist countries have used this trick too. China also, which straddles capitalist and communist depending on context.

Starvation in modern times is usually the result of deliberate intent not a byproduct of an economic arrangement.

I still hear this a lot in capitalist parlance, you know "we need to keep the workers hungry to keep them motivated".

Please explain Iceland. Moderately socialist, attempting to skate on their debts, don't seem to be starving or living in filth.

I was discussing with HousingWatcher how socialist countries cannot sustain large population. What the hell does your comment have anything to do with that?

Besides don't be gullible, socialists don't care for the people, they just waste the money labor creates under pretenses of helping them. You wouldn't be advocating socialistic spending if it wasn't beneficial to you in some way.

Ya know, I'm wondering if there is a sliver of hope here for some Democrat spine:

Notably, Pelosi was the only of the four congressional leaders not to pledge support for the plan.

"I look forward to reviewing the legislation with my Caucus to see what level of support we can provide," she said in a statement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/31/debt-ceiling-deal_n_914538.html

Hmmmm.... a defection? A last minute digging in of the heels to win some actual tax increase concession? I can hope.

Where's Grandma goat lady, to approve this message?
You shouldn't post with out your aging repeater echoing your shit.

Not enough details to say much about it yet.

This just in, Obama's approval rating is 40%.
Thank you that is all...
On related news, scientist now know what causes irritable bowel syndrome.

dude ... did you just write "Obama = failure"? That sounds very Limbaugh-ish for you, my fine feathered friend.

Australia has 21 million people. There are 21 million people in LA?

FortWayne says

ok tell me how Communist China was letting millions starve until they moved to Capitalism, how Soviets collapsed because they ran out of money and are now trying to be Capitalist. How are Greeks unable to get their finances in order with socialist redistribution programs?

There are plenty of examples where large scale countries fail when they have too much socialist mentality.

And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles.

Quality Auto Repair Since 1979

China is not capitalist. Not even close. Almost every large Chinese business is state owned. They even have competing state owned businesses.

China builds empty cities, forces people to leave their land without compensation, and doesn't allow foreign companies to do business locally unless they agree to hand over their technology and operations to local partners.

Despite all of this, they still have lots of starving people.

All economic policies have good and bad in them. Just as you claim there are no large scale socialist success stories, there are no large scale free market success stories. The only success stories are mixed economies,period.

HousingWatcher says

"And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles."

Australia has 21 million people. There are 21 million people in LA?

Los Angeles county has maybe 8 or 9 million, so no its not close. Of course most countries are tiny compared to the united states - but so what?

bdrasin says

Los Angeles county has maybe 8 or 9 million, so no its not close. Of course most countries are tiny compared to the united states - but so what?

Ah you are missing EncinoMan, I mean FortWayne's point.

Which is he can make any cross-country comparison he wants to prove his point. Other people's cross-country comparisons however are automatically invalid if they disagee with his views. Clear now?

HousingWatcher says

"they all have very small economies and they are small countries too, aren't leading the world in anything."

Ok then, tell me how Socialist Australia has 4.9% unemployment. Certainly they are not a small country.

Not trying to sway the argument one way or another, but Australia's property bubble was still in its growth stages and appears to be poised for a huge pop. The reason they managed to escape the initial global housing collapse was because they are an economy heavily dependent upon natural resources. Additional fuel kept their bubble afloat when commodities were skyrocketing in 2008 and the demand via the Chinese stimulus has inflated it even more. As soon as China's faltering economy is realized by the market, Australia is done for. Again, this isn't taking a position on one side or the other, but Australia will have much higher unemployment than 4.5% in a year or two.