patrick.net

greeks are like CA, paid people not to work. thats where we are heading.

EncinoMan says

greeks are like CA, paid people not to work. thats where we are heading.

Canadians? Huh?

There is only one risk to default, and that's the ability to pay.

In most countries, the risk is zero, since they can print their own debt repayments.

Greece is at a bigger risk of default than japan, but the basic claim about 150% debt to gdp is demonstrably untrue

They don't. No republicans will vote for it, so its dead in the water.

Eventually the Democrats will suck it up and accept whatever boehner can get through the house, because they're too pragmatic to accept the consequences of hitting the debt ceiling

Since boehners bill doesn't really do anything anyway, I figure its the best outcome for now. Maybe after Obama is re elected we can fix entitlements and defense spending.

And yes, he will be re elected because the gop doesn't have a credible candidate. The best they can hope for is a Republican john Kerry.

Kevin says

Maybe after Obama is re elected

On Mars in another dimension.

yeah, not going to happen. propaganda and nothing more.

typical fearmongering just like Bush and jsut like Obama.

P.S. Changed from EncinoMan.

I do not see enough fundamentals for a depression. Not that we as a nation don't deserve one, we've been living on credit for a very long time.

Harry Reid should have brought up the bill under budget reconcillation so that only 51 votes are needed to pass the bill and the Repuiblicans can't fillibuster.

So then why do Socialist European countires all have lower unemployment than the U.S.? Switzerland's unemployment rate is less than 4%.

HousingWatcher says

So then why do Socialist European countires all have lower unemployment than the U.S.? Switzerland's unemployment rate is less than 4%.

Because Switzerland isn't wasting a trillion dollars a year on occupying the world.

they all have very small economies and they are small countries too, aren't leading the world in anything. you want 0 unemployment for a bit, hire everyone to dig ditches and work for the government filing useless paperwork.

Getting a society where population is 300+ million is a lot harder than some tiny little place like Switzerland. You can go to the African tribe and it will be 100% employment in pure communism. It's a model that simply doesn't scale.

The thing that really disappoints me is there is NOTHING that is progressive in the Reid bill or the likely compromise.

Could the deal include *ONE* bone for progressives. Raise the tax on billionaires by .05%. Something. No, of course not. They lack the stomach for requiring even a symbolic tax increase.

No, all they seemed to have achieved is argue about the size of the GOTP demands they will surrender to. All the debate seems to center on moving around the yardsticks now and on when we are going to repeat this particular crazy act.

Ok then, tell me how Socialist Australia has 4.9% unemployment. Certainly they are not a small country.

credit is not an evil monster, but it needs to be paid back. And liberals and rinos only know how to hand money out with absolutely no plan of paying it back.

Thats how it works, they screw the future generations by loading them with more debt on hand outs today.

ok tell me how Communist China was letting millions starve until they moved to Capitalism, how Soviets collapsed because they ran out of money and are now trying to be Capitalist. How are Greeks unable to get their finances in order with socialist redistribution programs?

There are plenty of examples where large scale countries fail when they have too much socialist mentality.

And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles.

Soviets starved because the dictators running the system found starvation useful to keep the peasants in line.

Fascist countries have used this trick too. China also, which straddles capitalist and communist depending on context.

Starvation in modern times is usually the result of deliberate intent not a byproduct of an economic arrangement.

I still hear this a lot in capitalist parlance, you know "we need to keep the workers hungry to keep them motivated".

Please explain Iceland. Moderately socialist, attempting to skate on their debts, don't seem to be starving or living in filth.

I was discussing with HousingWatcher how socialist countries cannot sustain large population. What the hell does your comment have anything to do with that?

Besides don't be gullible, socialists don't care for the people, they just waste the money labor creates under pretenses of helping them. You wouldn't be advocating socialistic spending if it wasn't beneficial to you in some way.

Ya know, I'm wondering if there is a sliver of hope here for some Democrat spine:

Notably, Pelosi was the only of the four congressional leaders not to pledge support for the plan.

"I look forward to reviewing the legislation with my Caucus to see what level of support we can provide," she said in a statement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/31/debt-ceiling-deal_n_914538.html

Hmmmm.... a defection? A last minute digging in of the heels to win some actual tax increase concession? I can hope.

Where's Grandma goat lady, to approve this message?
You shouldn't post with out your aging repeater echoing your shit.

Not enough details to say much about it yet.

This just in, Obama's approval rating is 40%.
Thank you that is all...
On related news, scientist now know what causes irritable bowel syndrome.

dude ... did you just write "Obama = failure"? That sounds very Limbaugh-ish for you, my fine feathered friend.

Australia has 21 million people. There are 21 million people in LA?

FortWayne says

ok tell me how Communist China was letting millions starve until they moved to Capitalism, how Soviets collapsed because they ran out of money and are now trying to be Capitalist. How are Greeks unable to get their finances in order with socialist redistribution programs?

There are plenty of examples where large scale countries fail when they have too much socialist mentality.

And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles.

Quality Auto Repair Since 1979

China is not capitalist. Not even close. Almost every large Chinese business is state owned. They even have competing state owned businesses.

China builds empty cities, forces people to leave their land without compensation, and doesn't allow foreign companies to do business locally unless they agree to hand over their technology and operations to local partners.

Despite all of this, they still have lots of starving people.

All economic policies have good and bad in them. Just as you claim there are no large scale socialist success stories, there are no large scale free market success stories. The only success stories are mixed economies,period.

HousingWatcher says

"And australia is tiny, they have less people than we have in Los Angeles."

Australia has 21 million people. There are 21 million people in LA?

Los Angeles county has maybe 8 or 9 million, so no its not close. Of course most countries are tiny compared to the united states - but so what?

bdrasin says

Los Angeles county has maybe 8 or 9 million, so no its not close. Of course most countries are tiny compared to the united states - but so what?

Ah you are missing EncinoMan, I mean FortWayne's point.

Which is he can make any cross-country comparison he wants to prove his point. Other people's cross-country comparisons however are automatically invalid if they disagee with his views. Clear now?

HousingWatcher says

"they all have very small economies and they are small countries too, aren't leading the world in anything."

Ok then, tell me how Socialist Australia has 4.9% unemployment. Certainly they are not a small country.

Not trying to sway the argument one way or another, but Australia's property bubble was still in its growth stages and appears to be poised for a huge pop. The reason they managed to escape the initial global housing collapse was because they are an economy heavily dependent upon natural resources. Additional fuel kept their bubble afloat when commodities were skyrocketing in 2008 and the demand via the Chinese stimulus has inflated it even more. As soon as China's faltering economy is realized by the market, Australia is done for. Again, this isn't taking a position on one side or the other, but Australia will have much higher unemployment than 4.5% in a year or two.

Cave... cave, cave, cave... cave of fools!

Let's play Kick the Can. Sorry, the can has been replaced by a crumpled up piece of paper due to budget cuts.

The Republicans won't rest until our economy is destroyed hoping that they will be able to make President Obama look bad. They are that evil.

President Obama caves again at his own peril. Now There is something that the scumbag Republicans can use to make it look like the Depression that is coming is his fault. And they would be 25% correct. By being complicit in making a bad deal that trashes our economy, President Obama proves yet again that he is a Republican in Democrat's clothing.

If he had any backbone he would have held out until the Rethuglicans released the hostage by signing onto the debt ceiling increase with higher taxes on the parasitic rich. If Rethuglicans would have refused, the economic dsaster would have been theirs alone. Now he walked right into their clutches.

Why bother having more than one party if they do essentially the same thing?

What difference does it make how large a country's population is when discusssing their economy? I don't see it being relevant. If anything, most Socialist European countires have SMALLER govts. than the U.S. does since they don't have state govts. like we do. They only have federal and local govts. If it was up to me, there would be no state govts. We don't need 3 levels of govt.

It's too early to be celebrating now. The "Super Congress" will most likely raise taxes, which is what Obama wanted all along. And if they don't, then it's pretty much guaranteed he will let all the Bush tax cuts expire.

This does not come from me, but from the right wingers:

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2011/08/01/not-playing-the-fool/

You won the battle, but you will lose the war.

Obama did pull off some victories since most of the cuts will come from Defense, which Rpeublicans do not want to touch, and there will be no Balanced Budget Amendment.

I fail to see how Obama caved. Seems more like he just hoodwinked you righties into a method of eliminating Tea Party idiocy from government. According to Drudge no real cuts take place until 2014 while getting the debt ceiling raised through the election. Since the Tea Party gained so much exposure on the "all eggs in one basket" battle progressives will be able to paint them as owning the next downturn while failing to create jobs. People will remember that the republicans cut unemployment support.

I'm glad you think Obama caved. Be sure to vote Bachmann in your primary. Thanks!

We have genetically engineered super viruses that can wipe out 90% of the earth's human population. We have thermo-nuclear arsenals that can extinguish all life on earth four times. And based on the beliefs of the vast majority of humans, there exists entities (God, Allah, gods, space-beings, extraterrestrials, the Devil, the Anti-Christ, other wordly beings, dimensional beings, etc.) that have the capacity to destroy the world. Various other threats - climate change, asteroids, earth crust displacement, solar eruptions, Ice Age, super volcanos, etc. can instantly destroy the majority of the earth's civilizations.

And any combination of the above could easily doom us all despite any of our best preparations. I am not losing any sleep over some undefined economic depression. I am losing sleep in anticipation of the real threat: Zombie Apocolypse.

SoCal Renter says

I am not losing any sleep over some undefined economic depression. I am losing sleep in anticipation of the real threat: Zombie Apocolypse.

Last year Russian bears were so desperate after a scorching summer, they started digging up corpses to feast on.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/26/russia-bears-eat-corpses-graveyards

How long before it's us? A training movie made back in the 70's:

I don't think Sarah Palin has enough helicopter fuel and ammo if they all start coming for us.

simchaland says

Why bother having more than one party if they do essentially the same thing?

Well... it looks more 'legit' that way. Even Big Brother had his Goldstein.

terriDeaner says

And then what happens once the we're in this state of affairs? The story doesn't end here...

Fox News will ensure people know to take their Soma when they have thoughts about their own long-term good or that of a civil society.

Brave New World is for most a socialist creation, but much of it could as easily be serving fascism or other structure.

There's no reason to assume it couldn't persist quite a long while.

I think it's great that they didn't raise taxes (or so it's advertised as such, I'm guessing that the actual details might be different).

If they want to "raise taxes" let them do away with the per kid tax credits and decustions, along with mortgage interest deduction.

Vicente says

There's no reason to assume it couldn't persist quite a long while.

Eh, I disagree. We've been in this depression since 2008, but things haven't gotten bad enough yet for most of the people, including many of those that have been strongly affected by the downturn. Much different from 1929.

And today's Soma is not so much Fox news as it is instant electronic gratification, and fast food, and many other easily accessible pacifiers. BTW, it is 2011 and where the heck are the 'feelies'?

Let's see what happens now that we're trying things 1937 style. It will be an interesting election year, if nothing else.

Vicente says

Obama caved and this is a disaster for America.

Spoken like a government employee...

zzyzzx says

If they want to "raise taxes" let them do away with the per kid tax credits and decustions, along with mortgage interest deduction.

So they should raise taxes, without raising taxes? I think GOTP already updated all dictionaries. Eliminating any form of loophole or deduction now counts as insane socialist tax increases. Witness the fight over estate taxes, a better example of which to get wealth flowing back into the society that made it possible I cannot think of. So that's right out and anyone even whispering such things is at best a suspect RINO, a quisling ready to turn Democrat and eat brains, or at worst one of the fickle independents that needs a trip to Liberty Camp for retraining.

Please try to keep up with the terminology changes. You can no longer use the word "rich" either unless it refers to desserts. It's the new N-word in the GOTP. Richie Rich comics in private hands are being located, witness this offensive example:

so they can have labels affixed over the offensive language correcting it to JobCreatorie JobCreator.

*footnote: suprising lack of Rule 34 for Richie Rich. A niche to fill!

HousingWatcher says

It's too early to be celebrating now. The "Super Congress" will most likely raise taxes, which is what Obama wanted all along. And if they don't, then it's pretty much guaranteed he will let all the Bush tax cuts expire.

Yep, here comes some more politics with the "Super Congress". I imagine they won't get much done until another near miss deadline and threats of calamity. If Obama gets re-elected, stand by for us to swing to the far, far left in response to the Tea Party’s extreme right stance.

I also don't understand this. If you submit and pass a budget are you not agreeing to raise the debt limit if that budget goes above the debt ceiling? However, the democrats did balk at the budget last year. This is probably why they stalled last year.

Jay Carney just said, “The suggestion that it is impossible for the joint committee to raise tax revenue simply is not accurate, it’s false.” So here we go again with the politics while the jobless rate is high and GDP stays down.