patrick.net

Price, price, and price. To us, it is the only thing that matters. We won't live in a neighborhood with a high crime rate even if it's cheaper, but otherwie price is the only thing that matters.

Our current apartment is absolutely decrepit; 1970's carpet that has separated from the padding in several places, an ancient kitchen and shower, etc. It is a real dump, but whenever we think about moving, we decide that having a nicer place just isn't worth an extra $200 - $300/month.

PS great picture!

@Joe Schmoe,

Thanks! I really wanted to capture that quintessential "renter-ness".

Renting...
Well, first and foremost, the reason I and probably everyone here rents is that it's cheap( for now). I rent a large 4 bedroom house with a big yard, 2 car garage of which half is used as my workshop, a shed in the back, a small garden, and in a quite, pretty, and easily bikeable neighborhood. I rent with my wife and one other person, hence we actually have 2 extra bedrooms, one as an office, and the other we're using as a guest room/ studio. We each pay $550, which is still very cheap for what we're getting. The house is values at around 640k, so what we pay out of pocket each is about 6 times cheaper than it would be to buy right now.
The worst place I lived in was Boston. The apartment was decriped and more than once had an electrical fire in the middle of the night. Kids would break in and burn stuff on the roof. 2 bikes and a scooter got stolen. My housemate had 22 pets( yes 22) of all kinds, like rats, mice, birds, and fish. All stinky and loud animals in a tiny 1 bedroom studio. One night, a drunken, high hispanic man starts beating on our door telling who he thought was his GF that he was going to kill her. The rent was insanely expensive, and every 6 months, they'd raise it even more until finally, as soon as I finished school, I had to get the hell out of there.
The second worst experience was a huge victorian house in TN of which I rented the entire upper floor. My bedroom was in the turret, and as far as living there, it was awesome and cheap. $250 a month. There was this neighbor who I got to be friends with. A 40-something African American woman. Anyhow, she asked me to help her pick up some furniture one evening. We went and got it, were driving back, then she jumped on me, which scared the living shit out of me. I got home, ran upstairs, and locked the doors. Her husband was this HUGE drunk, truck driving redneck, and I just knew he was going to kill me. Nothing happened.
The last place I got before this one was a crappy, broken down house in Berkeley with 8 bedrooms. It was super-weird and had windows nailed down INSIDE the house, on the floor over the crawl spaces in a storage closet. I wasn't aware of this, put my stuff up there, then suddenly went through it, almost landing downstairs.The whole house was built like this. The landlord was this crazy Pakistani guy who owned 40 properties,yet never repaired them drove crappy cars( he had 20) filled to the brim with usless junk he accumulated from thrift stores, and he lived like a pauper even though he was worth millions. He had been involved in many lawsuits from the city of berkeley. Weird, weird house.
The place I rent now is freakin awesome though.

I prefer a managed, high-rise apartment. Renting is the only affordable way to get a concierge and/or doorman (usually slightly more than property tax + HOA + insurance).

I am willing to pay premium for size and solid construction. :) I prefer to be driving the worst car in the garage.

Given a choice, I prefer a managed complex. I do not want to move simply because the landlord decides to sell.

In a word: "SQUALID"

That's what the HARM family looks for in a rental. None of that shiny, fake pergraniteel shit for me. Give me a dialpidated, squalid old 19th century tenement any day! And cramped --if there's anything I can't stand is having too much room. I love my family and prefer to be as close to them as possible at all times.

And forget all those high-falutin' property management corporate types! I want a landlord who looks like a cross between Fred Mertz and "Schneider" from "One Day at a Time".

When my wife and I sold our home in late 2003 there was nothing and I do mean nothing available in our local market. We wound up settling for a 2bd/1ba that must have been built in the 1930's. There was no place to cover my boat so it sat outside under a tarp for a year. However it was in a great area outside of Portland, OR and it gave us ample time to learn about our new "target" community. We learned a lot! The street (while quaint) was a MAJOR thru-fare for the local elem. school! Soccer moms driving 50+mph in a 25! I guess they didn't care if they ran your kids over (as long as their's weren't late).

We had mixed feelings as we moved to our "up scale" condo b/c the neighbors were the best we ever had! We like our new neighbors and everyone is very respectful of our privacy and tranquility. We have at least a dozen decent restaurants within walking distance along with shopping and we're two blocks to the hospital and clinics. At $850 a month we do NOT pay for water, sewer or gabage for about 1,450 sq. ft and a view of the river as it comes through town. I have absolutely no lawn maint. and have finally discovered there is more to life than "keeping up" a home.

Thanks for the great tips, George!

I agree with the part about avoiding property mamnagement companies --particularly here in CA. They seem to hire some of the greediest sons-of-bitches this side of D.C., and are incredibly negligent and stingy about repairs. I did have a good expeirence with a property management company once --in Atlanta. I think the difference there was it's a place with loads of cheap housing & plenty of room to expand, so less of a "captive" clientele.

I live in an midrange Silicon Valley complex, and the facilities are basically OK, but some of my immediate neighbors have young children whom they make no attempt to control.

Which one?

I prefer DINKs and gay couples as neighbors. I hate living next to college kids. They are the worst.

Should I forgive my parents for not letting me rent?

Mr Vincent,

Sadly, when I chose my parents and generation, I chose poorly. If I had been age 18 back in 1978 and had enough money or credit, I would have been *delighted* to buy 4 houses at those prices. I would get down on your knees every day and thank God/Allah/Jeebus/Buddha/Krishna/whomever for blessing you with such wonderful parents and for allowing you to be born into the most fortunate generation in the history of mankind.

When you are ready to buy, only buy a SFR or Townhome. Do not buy a place that has someone living above or below you.

I do not agree. High-end condos (concrete and steel) are not bad at all. They come with a lot of amenities and they tend to be closer to everything.

Sadly, when I chose my parents and generation, I chose poorly.

Being born in the right place at the right time is about 80-90% of success.

Being born in the right place at the right time is about 80-90% of success.

Some may say 100% but I do think that free will does make at least some influence.

Mr. Vincent,

Should you forgive your parents? I don't know. In 78 I was 19, joined the service and saw the world. I was able to be a part of history as Marcos was dethroned in the P.I and so many other things it's really just a blur. My wife and I have friends that date back close to 25 years. How much is that worth? I don't know, maybe not all that much. Am I retired? My wife seems to think so. I work independently and intend to do so until they drag me out feet first. I like what I do. Did I make a killing in CA RE? No. Have owned REIT's, yes plenty of them. Unlike you I took ALL of my profit off the table. They have not revisted their former highs since. I don't regret a minute of it (let alone being a landlord). I'm not labeling you a "perma-bull" but I thought the spirit of this thing was more about the joys of renting, not our past exploits.

I’m a pessimist, so I rent to keep my options open. I would buy if it was 5-7x annual rent. Otherwise, I’d rather wait until I think the time and place are perfect. This conservative impulse seriously goes against my impulse to plant every inch of ground under my control with plants (rather expensive, fancy, and rare plants). I sublimate by sending very large presents of plants to friends.

I don’t mind small, in fact, I like small because the upkeep is cheaper and I’m forced to get rid of junk more promptly. However, I really prefer not to compromise on convenience, safety, finish, noise, responsive management, etc.

Speaking from my experience from helping my parents with apartment searches… Firstly, don’t rent from an inexperienced landlord, they have unrealistic expectations and are worthless when you go to them with problems. They also don’t appreciate the value of a good renter. Secondly, check sound insulation and potential noise sources, that’s one of the major downsides of apartment/condo living. Thirdly, as George mentioned, be wary when you’re renting from a specuvestor, they can pull the rug from under you at any time. Having dealt with my parents’ terrible specuvestor landlords from last year, I don’t think I want to repeat the experience any time soon.

About boomers:

From 1939 to 1957, Pluto went thru Leo. It was a time when we went from the collective to the "I". It's been written that "creative" wasn't in the language til the early 50's in regard to humans. Before that, God created, but humans didn't. Leo is a creative sign and Pluto is evolution and transcendence. This period is also called the "Me generation' -but we were tapping into our selfhood and trying to figure out who we are as individuals.

http://www.acumind.com/Pam/babyboomers.html

Yes, I regretted not qualifying my statement about living above or below someone after I wrote it.

Not your fault. Most condos are built for cost reasons alone. Wood and vertical neighbors do not mix. :)

Robert,
Excellent point.The best part of the US is that if things get to pricey, you can move somewhere else and start all over.

Robert C,

Yeah, I can go along with that with the exception being that for many younger people the only way to "transcend" through RE would be to join the circle jerk. Sorry ladies.

Your problem is equating property values with the true measures of individual success.

I was referring to planetary alignment. One can be born into a poor family but is destined to become rich. Or one can be born to a capitalist family but is fated to become a spiritually-successful person.

In the US some of our greatest advantages are mobility and ability. Mobility to relocate and transcend class. Ability to turn liabilities into assets and opportunity.

You are giving "free" will too much credit. The "ability to turn liabilities into assets and opportunity" may very much be innate.

A part of my problem with my parent's generation is that they always assume they know how the world works and I don't. They assume that because buying the biggest possible house worked out for them, I ought to do it too. They assume because they ended up okay with me as their kid (though they are not what you'd call kid friendly people) that I should go and pop out some ASAP.

Mr. Vincent,

Oh no problem. My folks owned several homes outright (over the years) and I have been an owner most of my adult life. I've made plenty of money through the ownership of RE as well. But there I do have reservations. If someone gave me the option to "own my home free and clear" or take that very same equity and either position it in a REIT (where I can at least get some diversification) and pay the rent with the income I believe I would take the latter. We're coming into a period where cash will be king. If it becomes more advantageous to pay it off then I suppose I would, but right now I AM accepting cash (with proper identification of course!)

@Mr Vincent,

Thanks. Since I've been blogging here, my negative views about Boomers have also been tempered by the many fine insights I've read by our many 40-something regulars.

Thanks. Since I’ve been blogging here, my negative views about Boomers have also been tempered by the many fine insights I’ve read by our many 40-something regulars.

People born after 1957 do not have Pluto in Leo...

George,

Are there any opportunities in a down market situation? Maybe work for a RTC?

I think the next time we buy it will be SFH, or mod condo with concrete floors with radiant heat. All this rain made our place mildew cottage, and we’re stingy with the heat so that didn’t help.

Townhouses are not bad either. Again, you have to look past the pergraniteel and inspect the true quality of the place.

I agree with Jon - its the noise. Loud music is only OK if it is my kind of music. That is selfish, but it makes a huge difference. Street noise rarely bothers me nor car alarms. Yes, it is mostly the unbelievable, blaring, loud music.

Loud music is only OK if it is my kind of music. That is selfish, but it makes a huge difference. Street noise rarely bothers me nor car alarms. Yes, it is mostly the unbelievable, blaring, loud music.

Loud music is never okay.

Street noise is fine if it is mostly white noise or pink noise. Car alarms are unacceptable.

We need better control over loud music. If someone likes loud music, he should build himself a listening room with 30-inch walls and sound-absorbing material. If he cannot afford that, he should use a freaking headset.

AmazedinSF,

"the rental neighbors from hell"

Well perhaps the fact that you don't really care for the wastelands where McMansions reside will help you find the "inner" neighbor from hell within you.

I always hated my ex- brother-in-law (who doesn't?) as he was one of these guys where the dogs "took over" the back yard like some kind of full time kennel and parked his fishing boat on the side of the garage when there was plenty of room in the garage. My brother and I thought about dedicating a series of books to him. We thought the title could be something like "Finding your inner putz" or "The putz within you" or "Be all the putz you can be"!

I have to agree, some teenagers find one song and play it, always.

I do not get along with young people.

Peter P,

I'd read recently about a group that calls themselves something like The American Society for Quiet. I realize that this sounds like the ultimate "grump" club but they make some valid points, like why do we NEED leafblowers? Are leaves really all that bad? I know I brought up loud motorcycles before but it's finally spring in Oregon and I swear these guys wait in the garage with the door up just waiting for the rain to stop so they can go on a "rumble". Great.....

newsfreak,

Exactly! I understand the price of progress but what is it that these things are supposed to accomplish? Ohhhh, I get it! Blow that stuff into your neighbors lawn.

In northern CA, the Coast Guard helicopters are always flying over.

In San Jose, SJPD helicopters are always looking for bad guys. Why can't those bad guys just stay at home and watch some TV?

in Paris I lived for some time in a building in which my apartment was the only one with a toilet

Huh?

Of course, they all still have day-jobs they need to get to by 6AM. There’s nothing that tears you out of your sweet dreams (of home ownership, of course) like the sound of several 2-cylinder motors ripping at top speed down the street in front of your place.

God bless the rain.

HARM, can you correct the misspelling? I meant "God bless the rain."

Huh?

Less bike noise in the rain.

BTW, isn't biking too dangerous? Do bikes even have airbags?

My daughter lived in a dump where the toilet had a pump that made it sound like you were on a boat. too cheap or too lazy to run the right pipes.

I like good toilets that can flush down a whole roll of toilet-paper. They should install hotel-grade toilets in homes.

Any bets on where rates will be at the end of the year? I’m leaning towards 7.25% or higher… 7% is the death nail for the Cali market…

Sounds about right.